In defence of Mr Hook

Am I missing something here? Mr Hook is touring music that he made a major contribution to. Nobody's saying that he claims total ownership of it, and, as has has been said many times previously, if you don't want to go, then don't go.

If I was responsible for a tenth of the music that he helped to produce, I'm pretty sure that I'd want to play it for as long as I could. And, let's face it, what chance would there have been of hearing the majority of the JD material played live ever again, if he hadn't?

I'm 50 and I work in IT. My closest link with JD/NO is that I used to be friends with the drummer in a band who suported them once.

I've booked next Monday off so I can go to Hooky's book signing in Manchester. I am buying three additional copies for colleagues at work (and a fourth if my brother can afford one too), and whilst I was busy drumming up additional Hooky sales, I got to thinking. If he has a minute (and I maybe hope he won't because of the volume of people turning up), what can I ask him?

I saw JD supporting Buzzcocks in 1979 (my first gig). I waited until after midnight for NO to come onstage at the Manchester Ritz in 1981. I got three points on my drving license for speeding while driving back from NO in Doncaster in 1985. I froze my pods off waiting in the snow to go into Blackburn King George's Hall one winter. Hooky snarled at me as I managed to touch his bass whilst he was playing it at his 40th birthday bash at the Witchwood Pub in Ashton-under-Lyne.

I've been to Macclesfield on May the 18th on a number of occasions. My first 12" single was "Atmosphere", which I bought from Piccadilly records with my first grant cheque (remember those?) in 1980. I ruined a pale blue T-shirt by hand painting a "Temptation" design on it, in the style of the "Movement" cover, but added "FAC65" instead of "FAC63". I could have sold my next effort, a "Blue Monday" t shirt (this time with the correct catalogue number) a dozen times over at the Friday night Manchester Polytechnic disco in 1983. I nearly got in a fight because I wouldn't sell my newly acquired 7" of "Ceremony" at a party in 1981.

So many memories of the last 34 years driven by a record label and a band, albeit in many incarnations.

So, to my question. I finally decided it was going to be "When are you going to tour "Movement"? And then, when I opened my email, I found, to my delight, that he was. I haven't seen any of the Unknown Pleasures/Closer/Still concerts, and I'm not ashamed to say I LOVE "Movement". Not long after, I received an email from one of the lads at work, who'd already booked his ticket, and so now I'm going too. I've only been there two months and I've already found 4 JD/NO fans. I gives us something to do when we're not writing, testing and deploying software!

In the meantime, my eldest son (15) asked me the other day "Have you heard a song called Isolation by Joy Division, Dad?". My youngest son, who's 9 puts "Transmission" on repeat in the car and sings "Dance, dance, dance, dance, dance to the radio" and so, I'm taking him to see Hooky on Monday too.

However, I don't have a question any more, as the one I had has been answered. So, if Hooky has 10 seconds, I'm just going to say exactly what I'd say to Bernard, or Gillian or Steve if I was fortunate enough to meet them.

"Whatever way you choose to do it, you're keeping my memories alive. Thank you".

Enough said?

Several great musicians have been doing the same thing for years with less passion than Hooky, I really don't get all the hate towards him. It's a way of celebrating and spreading great history. Perhaps some here think he's the only one responsible for NO's demise.

I just don't think Hooky is doing HIMSELF any credit trawling through the NO back catalogue while NO, such as it is these days, is still a going concern. I think he's better than that and the pettiness (on both sides to a degree) disappoints me personally.

I invest a lot (I don't mean cash although there is that too) in the bands and artists that mean a lot to me - follow someone long enough and it almost becomes an extension of yourself. Maybe it's unfair to put our heroes up on a pedestal like that. They are flawed like the rest of us. I'll never lose my appreciation of Peter Hook, his musical achievements and the part he has played in enriching my life personally. But I don't respect what he's doing right now and that saddens me.

I do however totally respect what you are saying. Hooky enjoys playing live and he makes plenty of people happy. It's a free world, each to their own etc. But seeing your kids get enjoyment from listening to one of your favourite bands is surely one of life's greatest pleasures. That, and sharing with them how much the music and memories mean to you, is how you pass on a legacy!

I have no issues, as he is playing songs that Barney will not. The only issue is the doubts I have that he could pull off the singing for NO as well as he did for JD (with exception to Movement).
I think too many have jumped on the Barney bandwagon, and Hooky has gotten more flack than he deserves... but he hasn't done himself any favors by speaking before thinking. I wish Barney and Hooky could be professional about it. Fuck off for a couple years, then come together for a tour... then fuck off for awhile again. I just don't see either of them being musically relevant without each other.

I can see your point Pete. I went to see him play UP in Paard van Troje in The Hague and Closer in Melkweg, Amsterdam. What i saw was a guy fully enjoying playing his songs, giving the audience everything he could: a 21-song set in The Hague and a 26-song set(!!) in Amsterdam! He must have been exhausted at the end but still excused himself for having to leave the stage after 3 encores!! I totally loved these gigs and whilst one could argue his vocal qualities, he shuts down that discussion for me because of his energy and passion coming from the stage! Me, i never saw JD play, so to get the opportunity to hear the songs that i love so much being played by one of the guys who wrote them, is something that i am truly thankful for!

As Norbert said being interviewed by a Lokeren newspaper: "Their music is the soundtrack of my life!" I couldn't agree more. Last summer was a highlight for me: taking my 2 daughters to Lokeren to see New Order(one of the shittiest concerts i attended but nevertheless).

As i don't see the new New Order play songs like Hurt, In a Lonely Place or Thieves Like Us, i would love to see Hooky performing them (which he probably will considering all the 'extras' he threw in at the UP and Closer gigs).

Here's hoping he's gonna do the Movement-PCL gigs in Europe as well!!

Your post isn't strictly speaking 'in defence' of Hooky though, is it? Reads more like a lengthy personal history of your connection to JD/NO...fair enough, but I'm sure you're aware that Hooky has more than enough apologists on here. Obviously it's a divisive topic; personally I think its a terrible idea that smacks of desperation, but each to their own. As for his right to do it - sure. But by the token, Barney also has the right to turn Unknown Pleasures into a lavish stage musical if he wants, the difference being he wouldn't do it, because it doesn't have integrity.

For anyone who thinks Hooky and the Light touring NO albums is a good idea; if he wanted to play NO songs this badly, why leave (or in his imagination, 'split up') NO at all?

Apart from the only 2 tracks he sings on for PC&L and Movement, there will be zero credible justification for this - going on past form, he'll try to sing Barney's bits while waving his arms around, and Jack will play majority of the bass parts. The other session musos will make a decent crack at playing NO, but let's be honest, it's not exactly dignified, is it?

I can't wait for some more dates by Barney's band

Quality post pete, was at a number of the same gigs as yourself...looking forward to book signing, gig in Pompey and Movement and whatever else the NEW order boys and girls want to do.

oh hese got Blue eyes.

Personally, I dont care what he does. I think that P,C & Ls is going to sound fucking shit and nothing like how New Order would perform it but it doesnt bother me that he's doing it. He has rubbed some fans up the wrong way though over different things, and he could really do with some sort of media advisor to at least make him think about how some of his comments are going to come across to the wider populace. In my opinion, New Order are winning the hearts and minds battle hands down by saying very little wheras Hooky blunders into each interview effing and jeffing like some sort of football hooligan.

Coops wrote: Personally, I dont care what he does. I think that P,C & Ls is going to sound fucking shit and nothing like how New Order would perform it but it doesnt bother me that he's doing it. He has rubbed some fans up the wrong way though over different things, and he could really do with some sort of media advisor to at least make him think about how some of his comments are going to come across to the wider populace. In my opinion, New Order are winning the hearts and minds battle hands down by saying very little wheras Hooky blunders into each interview effing and jeffing like some sort of football hooligan.

I concur

Well, I'm glad at least that I've provoked a response of some sort. I can't see why Movement should be anything less than phenomenal, and whilst I understand people's reservarions about PCL, I would point them in the direction of NO's recent rendition of 586 and Hooky's reworking of Blue Monday at OxJam.

If I wanted to hear things sound exactly the same as the originals, I'd save my money and stick the CD on (always assuming that I could prise the youngest away from Transmission, of course!)

And yes, my post may well be more of a collection of memories as against a well structured defence, but I think my point still stands. He wants to play and I want to listen. God forbid that it might actually be a good night..!

Maybe meet some of you on Monday at HMV?

Coops wrote: Personally, I dont care what he does. I think that P,C & Ls is going to sound fucking shit and nothing like how New Order would perform it but it doesnt bother me that he's doing it. He has rubbed some fans up the wrong way though over different things, and he could really do with some sort of media advisor to at least make him think about how some of his comments are going to come across to the wider populace. In my opinion, New Order are winning the hearts and minds battle hands down by saying very little wheras Hooky blunders into each interview effing and jeffing like some sort of football hooligan.

I'm not against Hooky personally. But yes, I think he can be a disrespectful in the press about New Order, referring to them as New Odour (on his blog and in an interview), so even if the relationship in private has gone wrong, at least he should refer to them as New Order, and not in a such a way. You don't really hear Bernard etc refer to Hooky in a disrespectful way to the press on the other hand. Also, the fact that he seems to think the current band aren't New Order, or that they shouldn't use their name, is something I disagree with. Even if it's left up to the court, realistically, can he really stop them? I've heard something about a court case with some Pink Floyd members...how did that turn out? His constant claiming that BL doing a few NO/JD tracks is the same as what he's doing is something I disagree with too. Also, when I look at what the members have been doing after 2007, Bernard etc seem to be less 'retro' and 'nostalgic' than Hooky.

Now, New Order are celebrating the past with these gigs. But they have shown more willingness to write new material than The Light. They have only been doing this tour for about a year, not for a few years, and some of the newer songs in the set are from the past decade, not from 30 something years ago. So in a sense, while both could be said to celebrate the past, I can see why some people think The Light are even more retro than the current New Order.

Plus, before New Order reformed, Bernard has done a few new things; a collaboration with Blank and Jones in 2008, a new album with Bad Lieutenant in 2009, and a collaboration with Hot Chip etc in 2010. What has Hooky been doing all these years besides The Light? Freebass? And sure he may have helped open a new club that apparently plays newer music. But that club's name has something to do with the Hacienda/Factory doesn't it? Why couldn't he name it something else if he wants to be more forward looking? Also, the PIMM LP, writing a book about the Hacienda, a book about JD....much of the things he's been doing are very much orientated in the past. Now he's going to tour some NO albums, and some people are wondering if he can pull it off (especially the PC&L songs)....

Because of this, I can understand the criticism towards him.

Haven't got a problem with him doing PCL and Movement, i'm not going because it doesn't interest me, simple as that.

The problem i do have with him is how he continually says New Order split up when actually he just left.How is that splitting up? Like he is the only one who is qualified to split New Order up. If i was in a band but then quit that band how on earth could i then going around saying the band i was in had split up?

johnny wrote: Haven't got a problem with him doing PCL and Movement, i'm not going because it doesn't interest me, simple as that.

The problem i do have with him is how he continually says New Order split up when actually he just left.How is that splitting up? Like he is the only one who is qualified to split New Order up. If i was in a band but then quit that band how on earth could i then going around saying the band i was in had split up?

Spot on ! don't think he will have a chance in court !

leather-girl wrote:

Coops wrote: Plus, before New Order reformed, Bernard has done a few new things; a collaboration with Blank and Jones in 2008, a new album with Bad Lieutenant in 2009, and a collaboration with Hot Chip etc in 2010. What has Hooky been doing all these years besides The Light? Freebass?

Hooky worked with the Satellite Party and Crystal Method and released summat-or-other under his own alter-ago, Man Ray.

He also wrote two books and opened a club - I think it's safe to say he's certainly been the busiest of all the members of New Order in recent years. 😄

El Jarvo wrote:

leather-girl wrote:

Coops wrote: Plus, before New Order reformed, Bernard has done a few new things; a collaboration with Blank and Jones in 2008, a new album with Bad Lieutenant in 2009, and a collaboration with Hot Chip etc in 2010. What has Hooky been doing all these years besides The Light? Freebass?

Hooky worked with the Satellite Party and Crystal Method and released summat-or-other under his own alter-ago, Man Ray.

He also wrote two books and opened a club - I think it's safe to say he's certainly been the busiest of all the members of New Order in recent years. 😄

Lets not forget that Bernard and Steve were part of that Coronation street Adidas "event" a few years ago, that interview in The Rovers Return with our two heroes draped in Adidas clobber was not a career high point for either of them..

Digi Mike wrote:

johnny wrote: Haven't got a problem with him doing PCL and Movement, i'm not going because it doesn't interest me, simple as that.

The problem i do have with him is how he continually says New Order split up when actually he just left.How is that splitting up? Like he is the only one who is qualified to split New Order up. If i was in a band but then quit that band how on earth could i then going around saying the band i was in had split up?

Spot on ! don't think he will have a chance in court !

According to the M.E.N. he thinks he can be New Order as well!

And while the current line-up of New Order are hoping to release a new album, Hooky insists he too will release an album as New Order if they do.

He says: “I’ve been doing quite a bit of writing, and if they can release an album as New Order, then why can’t I?”

It gets more and more bizarre with each interview, I know he is just winding the journalist up but that is plain daft..

Hooky is certainly welcome to do what he wants and if he writes new stuff and releases it as "New Order" then that's all good. Thing is though, he left new order and wanted it to end, so why is he going to drag a new order tribute band around the world? Must only be for the money, which is OK, but leaves a bit of a icky feeling in the stomach.

Yes, you are.

I won't rehash what I have said before. If he wants to play the songs he can. And if I want to think Hookys idea of touring those records is bonkers, I can.

El Jarvo wrote:

leather-girl wrote:

Coops wrote: Plus, before New Order reformed, Bernard has done a few new things; a collaboration with Blank and Jones in 2008, a new album with Bad Lieutenant in 2009, and a collaboration with Hot Chip etc in 2010. What has Hooky been doing all these years besides The Light? Freebass?

Hooky worked with the Satellite Party and Crystal Method and released summat-or-other under his own alter-ago, Man Ray.

He also wrote two books and opened a club - I think it's safe to say he's certainly been the busiest of all the members of New Order in recent years. 😄

Thank you for telling me about the collaborations...he certainly is busy. But I do understand why there is criticism....even if I don't agree with some of his statements to the press.

Johnny James wrote:

Digi Mike wrote:

johnny wrote: Haven't got a problem with him doing PCL and Movement, i'm not going because it doesn't interest me, simple as that.

The problem i do have with him is how he continually says New Order split up when actually he just left.How is that splitting up? Like he is the only one who is qualified to split New Order up. If i was in a band but then quit that band how on earth could i then going around saying the band i was in had split up?

Spot on ! don't think he will have a chance in court !

According to the M.E.N. he thinks he can be New Order as well!

Unless he's joking...that's odd. But then again....

He says: “I made a decision a long time ago that I wanted to play every song I ever recorded before I die.”

leather-girl wrote: But then again....

He says: “I made a decision a long time ago that I wanted to play every song I ever recorded before I die.”

What, EVERY song?

Holy shit...

Cranelane wrote:

And while the current line-up of New Order are hoping to release a new album, Hooky insists he too will release an album as New Order if they do.

He says: “I’ve been doing quite a bit of writing, and if they can release an album as New Order, then why can’t I?”

It gets more and more bizarre with each interview, I know he is just winding the journalist up but that is plain daft..

That must be a wind up, he is 25% of a band whilst the others are 75%

Cool Pete. Hope you have a great time.

I just cannot support boorish, egotistical behavior, and the products of that.

A couple of quotes have stood out for me recently.

I'll post them here without comment.

MEN Interview

And while the current line-up of New Order are hoping to release a new album, Hooky insists he too will release an album as New Order if they do. He says: “I’ve been doing quite a bit of writing, and if they can release an album as New Order, then why can’t I?”

BBC Interview

Didn't writing the book make you think life is too short for squabbles like this?

"It's human nature for you to be gladiatorial, isn't it? I don't want to sit there for the rest of my life thinking what they did was wrong and have to suffer it. I'd rather fight and at least I can say I had a go.

"The last thing I want is their descendants laughing at my descendants in the future. It's an odd situation, but it is about business."

Biginoil wrote: A couple of quotes have stood out for me recently.

I'll post them here without comment.

MEN Interview

And while the current line-up of New Order are hoping to release a new album, Hooky insists he too will release an album as New Order if they do. He says: “I’ve been doing quite a bit of writing, and if they can release an album as New Order, then why can’t I?”>

BBC Interview

Didn't writing the book make you think life is too short for squabbles like this?

"It's human nature for you to be gladiatorial, isn't it? I don't want to sit there for the rest of my life thinking what they did was wrong and have to suffer it. I'd rather fight and at least I can say I had a go.

"The last thing I want is their descendants laughing at my descendants in the future. It's an odd situation, but it is about business."

Oh Dear !

If anyone's at all interested, George (9) and I have just returned from the HMV. Hooky signed 5 copies of his book, plus a bookmark for George (he didn't have a copy of the book of his own and was a bit put out!)

He had a photo with me AND and a photo with George, and a nicer bloke I couldn't hope to meet. He seemed genuinely pleased to speak/hug/shake hands/have a photo with everyone there (and there were a LOT of people). It's now 20:30 and I'm looking forward to a good read.

Cheers, Hooky - all round top bloke - now I just have to wait until January!