I think Brotherhood is such an underrated album. It has one of New Order's best songs, Bizarre Love Triangle, along with Weirdo, Way of Life, Broken Promises... etc. Along with Technique, I think Brotherhood is New Order's most consistent album. If they make new music, they should emulate that era. I would love to hear a new single from them in the style of Bizarre Love Triangle, as it would enter the charts for sure!!
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Brotherhood
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Whilst it's still a good album I think it's by far their worst album. Having said that I really enjoy side two of it, particularly All Day Long.
I dont have the same effection for brotherhood as i do for PC&L, Low-Life, technique (and even Get Ready).
Take BLT out of the equasion and youre left with a bunch of similar sounding guitar driven songs with poor production and a lack of cohesion. Paradise, AIWWIW and Angel Dust could have been so much better IMO.
is it bro wrote: I dont have the same effection for brotherhood as i do for PC&L, Low-Life, technique (and even Get Ready).
Me too.
"PC&L", "Low Life" and "Technique" are The Holy Trinity. "Brotherhood" is only a good album. Even "Movement" sounds better to me. ![[:)]](/emoticons/smile.gif){kind=small}
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I have a deep affection for Brotherhood, as it was the first of the studio albums I bought. I love how it's split into halves, and I think the songs are great, but they were better live. Try putting together a collection of all the songs in proper order, but sourced from live recordings - it's amazing. Pity that All Day Long and Angel Dust were never captured through the soundboard (that I know of). The reason the Chapter III bootleg (August 25, 1987, NYC) is my favorite New Order concert is because Brotherhood is heavily represented.
As per the above comment brotherhood was my first album I got rather than bought. However I have bought it on every single format since so I can be forgiven for that initial pirate copy. Love brotherhood but not as good as technique, pc&l, lowlife and on par with get ready. Favourite track for me as it is when it was. It was my favourite new order album at the time until technique came long. But since then I now also prefer lowlife and pc&l which is nowadays my favourite.
I think Brotherhood one of their most inconsistent albums really; one minute it's fuzzy geetar rock (Way Of Life, Broken Promise) and the next it's shimmering synthpop (BLT). Every Little Counts at the end is this faux-Lou Reed type number which you either love or hate. It takes songs of immense quality to carry off an album of such varied styles and bar BLT and one or two of the others, it doesn't really work.
Technique (bar Fine Time) is more of a consistent album in terms of both quality and overall sound, in my opinion. I like bits of Brotherhood - got a soft spot for Weirdo - but I think the production dated really quickly. As It Is When It Was is a fantastic song but the production just sucks the life out of it, always sounded much better live.
Love the artwork, though.
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50 Pound Note wrote: I have a deep affection for Brotherhood, as it was the first of the studio albums I bought. I love how it's split into halves, and I think the songs are great, but they were better live. Try putting together a collection of all the songs in proper order, but sourced from live recordings - it's amazing. Pity that All Day Long and Angel Dust were never captured through the soundboard (that we know of). The reason the Chapter III bootleg (August 25, 1987, NYC) is my favorite New Order concert is because Brotherhood is heavily represented.
Not sure offhand where to find SB of "Angel Dust" but "All Day Long" can be found here.
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Was fairly disappointed with Brotherhood when it first came out.Was a bit of a let down after the magnificent Low Life less than 18 months before. Biggest disappointment was As It Is When It Was as it had been so great live.Should have kept the Hooky bass intro instead of the acoustic guitar intro but that's New Order for you.Warmed to the album after a while though.Good memories of the Birmingham Tower Ballroom Oct 86 gig which was about 2 or 3 days after Brotherhood was released.Always bugged me for some reason how they never released BLT as the lead single before the album.
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Always like Brotherhood. Uneven, but very much New Order.
Paradise and Weirdo are fine and always worth a listen, but then I tended to skip the last 3 songs of the first side. As It Is When It Was seems like Bernard's first attempt to write a normal radio rock song, and the studio version just doesn't work. Maybe it was in a way the first Bad Lieu type song. Bored me, then and now. The 4th track seems sort of like filler, the only thing I ever remember about it is that it is short and has sort of an "Isolation" bass line. Way of Life is a nice tune, but hardly of classic status.
BLT is near heavenly perfection, even thou I don't believe in heaven. I love Steve's beats of the album version, almost sort of a very naive attempt to be white boy hip hop. All Day Long seems to be dated the most, but the synths and bass are beautiful if cheesy, always good to hear. Angel Dust seems to have a lot of production work put into it, sounds more interesting than it actually is I suppose. Always like Every Little Counts, knew it was a playful VU/Reed pisstake from the start, glad to see them being creative and playful.
In retrospect State of the Nation is a big mistake, sounding worse each decade. Trying to jam all the aspects of New Order, and trying to be political, and then adding those horrible female faux soul backing vocals to make it pop dance... the song aims really high and ends up a clumsy mediocre track that isn't a very good dance song, nor a good rock song, nor a half way decent pop song. Shame is shameful with even more female vocals. I wonder who is to blame for the backing vocals. Tony Wilson's idea for world domination? Bernard? Gillian? A dare?
0_o wrote: In retrospect State of the Nation is a big mistake, sounding worse each decade. Trying to jam all the aspects of New Order, and trying to be political, and then adding those horrible female faux soul backing vocals to make it pop dance... the song aims really high and ends up a clumsy mediocre track that isn't a very good dance song, nor a good rock song, nor a half way decent pop song. Shame is shameful with even more female vocals. I wonder who is to blame for the backing vocals. Tony Wilson's idea for world domination? Bernard? Gillian? A dare?
I can see why people were disappointed with State of the Nation when it came out, but I actually think it's a pretty cool song.
Dreams_Never_End wrote:
0_o wrote: In retrospect State of the Nation is a big mistake, sounding worse each decade. Trying to jam all the aspects of New Order, and trying to be political, and then adding those horrible female faux soul backing vocals to make it pop dance... the song aims really high and ends up a clumsy mediocre track that isn't a very good dance song, nor a good rock song, nor a half way decent pop song. Shame is shameful with even more female vocals. I wonder who is to blame for the backing vocals. Tony Wilson's idea for world domination? Bernard? Gillian? A dare?
I can see why people were disappointed with State of the Nation when it came out, but I actually think it's a pretty cool song.
I didn't like "State of the Nation" when I heard it for the first time in the 80s, but now it's one of my favorites from 1986. Time changes everything... 😄
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State Of The Nation wasn't on the original album. Brotherhood always was meant to finish with ELC as per the vinyl FACT 150.
SOTN was tacked on by various record labels to certain CD pressings later on.
It's like Blue Monday/The Beach, they were never part of PC&L but feature on US versions.
Those tracks may be from the same "era" but shouldn't be considered as part of the "whole", in my opinion.
With the invention of the iPod I find myself using 'shuffle' rather than listening to an entire album (unless it is a new release like LostS.). Brotherhood wouldn't be my first choice to listen to a whole album. Paradise is probably my fav song.
SOTN was great when I first heard it, but now I can only stand the 7" usually.
Need to get back into album listens...
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Well they were left with this song State Of The Nation that they'd recorded in 1985 ( in Japan, May 85?) that they'd not got round to releasing for one reason and another and ended up sticking it out in the Brotherhood release era (Autumn 86) to pack everything together . What they really should have done is release State Of The Nation in early 86 instead of the god awful Shellshock (that should never have been released ever in my opinion. Or should have left it as just a song on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack album).
I remember hearing Broken Promise on the radio one night. I leaped out of bed and cranked up the radion. DJ had not spoken but I knew it was NO. Bought the lp soon there after. My hippie liberal uncle bought it too which surprised me because he thought it as an acoustic lp. Good lp not their best. Thought I read somewhere that they recorded it because factory needed money. Also the only CD I own that "rotted." The inner metal disintegrated and is no longer playable.
The Shadow wrote: and on par with get ready.
Pthhth!! I nearly choked on my tea. I take offence on behalf of Brotherhood (if that's possible)! Get Ready had one good song (Crystal). Brotherhood has one good side (side b, ok admittedly that's only four songs)... and side A wasn't bad either.
Factory™ wrote: god awful Shellshock (that should never have been released ever in my opinion. Or should have left it as just a song on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack album).
I will admit this one goes on far too long but I'm certainly glad they released it. Really like the chorus to this. And the 'orchestral' synthy bits. And the guitar sounds, And the hop-hop drum machine sounds.
Factory™ wrote: ...the god awful Shellshock (that should never have been released ever in my opinion. Or should have left it as just a song on the Pretty In Pink soundtrack album).
Shellshock is amazing - especially live! I will agree that the remixes aren't as strong as the standalone track.
It's funny how As It Was When It Was is getting lots of praise, and was apparently a favorite of Peter's (as stated in the Brotherhood at 25 radio documentary). I've never liked that song, and will always skip it when listening to the album.
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John Robie's efforts with New Order are probably not going to go down in history as among the band's finest. That juddering start/stop production, bits of the arrangement randomly crashing into each other, the blaring female vocals ruining any semblance of the track you were trying to enjoy... I just found it fucking dreadful and it's probably no coincidence Shell-shock or State Of The Nation don't feature in many countdowns of the band's finest tracks. He even managed to ruin the Sub-culture 12" on both sides as well. As a result, I think Robie's production ghost hovers over Brotherood a tad, which is why parts of the LP just don't work. It's probably not very surprising as he was technically the last producer they worked with around that time so they may have picked up some of his methods; Brotherhood definitely suffers as a result, in my opinion.
Hard to believe just over a year later they'd be working with Stephen Hague who would ditch all of those production gimmicks and actually coax some great melodies and music out of the band in the shape of True Faith and 1963, coincidentally tracks which have barely aged at all and still sound pretty modern by comparison.
When you listen to the rest of those songs including State Of The Nation & Shell-shock, I'm just amazed BLT made it out alive without a barrage of female vox and wakkah-wakkah guitars pushed way up in the mix.
50 Pound Note wrote:
Factory™ wrote: It's funny how As It Was When It Was is getting lots of praise, and was apparently a favorite of Peter's (as stated in the Brotherhood at 25 radio documentary). I've never liked that song, and will always skip it when listening to the album.
Funnily enough, As It Was When It Was is my favourite track on Brotherhood..... ok, second favourite after BLT.... but I have to agree with the earlier post, that it sounded much better live with the Hooky intro...
Still love All Day Long, even though it hasn't aged too well.
The recording that most of you seem to be complaining about is SHAME OF THE NATION, not STATE OF THE NATION. State Of The Nation always seemed over long but it has some great elements including some of the best sequences New Order have ever done and one of their infrequent guitar solos too.
As It Is When It Was - this is one of the all-time classic New Order songs for me. True the LP version isn't quite as powerful as it was live but I've always suspected that they changed the intro because Hooky's bass intro was a little too much like LWTUA. For my money, the weakest song on side 1 is Paradise but that might be because it doesn't really fit on the guitar side and Broken Promise, filler? Do me a favour!
edspess wrote: The recording that most of you seem to be complaining about is SHAME OF THE NATION, not STATE OF THE NATION. State Of The Nation always seemed over long but it has some great elements including some of the best sequences New Order have ever done and one of their infrequent guitar solos too.
Love the whole vibe of Shame of the Nation, especially the strings and soul vocals, in fact all 8 minutes of it.
Brotherhood starts out a decent album but becomes very good toward the end, the so-called electronic side. I'm particularly fond of Angel Dust which is about the darkest New Order would get sound-wise since Movement.
