Perfect Kiss 8'46'

The International album contains a 8'46' version of Perfect Kiss. The version on substance is only 8'02'. What is the difference exept those 44 seconds? And which one is the original 12'?

8'46" is the original 12" ... version on Substance is truncated.

Originally posted by Bart Dupré The International album contains a 8'46' version of Perfect Kiss. The version on substance is only 8'02'. What is the difference exept those 44 seconds? And which one is the original 12'?

I'll believe it when holding it in my hands... no, when my CD display shows the time!

Originally posted by Huntsman 8'46" is the original 12" ... version on Substance is truncated.

Really? I always thought it was the full thing....is the last 40 seconds just them jamming to a halt, ala the video?

don't you have the glorious silver sleeved 12" Tabsy? essential piece of the Order that should be sitting in every fan's stash...

Let's hope you're right on this one. One listing I saw for Int'l has TPK clocking in at 4:46 - the disappointing Low-Life version.

...but if you get ye olde cassette version of Substance, you will once again find the full glory of TPK...with the additional 40 (I thought it was actually 44) seconds...

but it is dissapointing to know that that damn LP edit will rear it's narsty head yet once again...

it seems like there are (at least) two versions of the new "greatest/best/here to stay/international" in a one CD version (while there seems to be a 2 CD special French version also)

1. Here to Stay... 12 tracks with 6 12" mixes (seems to be Canada and UK (guessing))

Ceremony Blue Monday (Original 12 " Mix) Confusion (Original Arthur Baker 12" Mix) Thieves Like Us Perfect Kiss (Original 12" Mix) Shellshock Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) True Faith (Original 12" Mix) Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) Crystal 60MPH Here To Stay (edit)

2. International or Here to Stay ... with 14 tracks (Australia, Germany, Mozambique?)

Ceremony Blue Monday (Original 12 " Mix) Confusion ...(version ?) Thieves Like Us Perfect Kiss Shellshock Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) True Faith Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) Round & Round Regret Crystal 60MPH Here To Stay

therefore one version would have the long Perfect Kiss 12", while the other ran out of room... as the CD Substance ran out of room i must assume.

just looking stuff up on the internet. if anybody has better information, feel free to correct/update

Originally posted by Chunks ...but if you get ye olde cassette version of Substance, you will once again find the full glory of TPK...with the additional 40 (I thought it was actually 44) seconds...but it is dissapointing to know that that damn LP edit will rear it's narsty head yet once again...

It was actually the Factory cassette of 'Low-life' which featured the original full length 12" mix of Perfect Kiss (along with 'Kiss Of Death' and 'Perfect Pit'). The vinyl 'Substance' also had the whole mix, but the tape and CD have it clipped. The only difference is a nice extra instrumental passage in the build up to that fabulously over the top ending. If you have 'The Kiss Of Death' on 'Substance', the bit that occurs between 5:18-5:47 is the extra bit that was clipped out at 7:04 on the 'Substance version - which is a shame as I think it improves the song.

I can't really work out why it was removed from the 'Substance' version, as the whole disc is 74 minutes long, and you can fit at least another five minutes on to the disc, if necessary.

Also worth remembering that on 'Substance', 'Shellshock' and 'Sub-Culture' are also shortened from the original 12" mixes, and 'Confusion' and 'Temptation' are complete re-recordings (something they will hopefully aknowledge on the forthcoming box-set).

I have a feeling the 12 track 'Here To Stay' compilation will end up becoming the 14 track version in the UK with the unholy radio edits on (and the 'Substance' 'Confusion', by the looks of those running times). That's a shame really, as the 'Perfect Kiss' edit, 'Round & Round' and 'Regret' are all on 'The Best Of Anyway'. I've always felt the best New Order material was the stuff where they experimented and did long 'original versions' or 12" mixes ('Perfect Kiss', 'Confusion', 'Touched By The Hand Of God','Crystal (Album Version)'), and thought that the 12 track 'Here To Stay' tracklist would've made a great introduction to newer fans of the band, with a good overall running order of their stuff - more like an up-to-date version of 'Substance' (the album which got me addicted to New Order).

but what do I know?

Regards, Andrew Morrison Website: http://www.trustnoone.org.uk

If the vinyl Subs has the full thing (and I'll check the time on it when I get back home), then all I need is a turntable and I can enjoy the full song! Of course, there's the question of where to find a turntable.....

Confusion' and 'Temptation' are complete re-recordings (something they will hopefully aknowledge on the forthcoming box-set).

They better

I would buy the box set just for those two songs (as long as they don't include that pump panal remix - that needs to die a terible terrible death)

i'm not sure why they have such little respect for the original Temptation 1982 version 12" or 7"... its not on Substance, Best of...(?), or the latest Here to Stay, its a classic, and historically their transition from Martin Hannett to self production...

the original is on the Touched by God CD single and the !981-82 EP CD, both which are not very easy to come by i would think

glad to see original Confusion finally get to CD too

Originally posted by i don't care i'm not sure why they have such little respect for the original Temptation 1982 version 12" or 7"... its not on Substance, Best of...(?), or the latest Here to Stay, its a classic, and historically their transition from Martin Hannett to self production...the original is on the Touched by God CD single and the !981-82 EP CD, both which are not very easy to come by i would thinkglad to see original Confusion finally get to CD too

it aint the original version on TBTHOG single, unfortunately!!!

whoops, my bad... you can tell i havent listened to it in ages... it IS the Substance version for some reason, labeled as "original mix", i guess "original mix of the unoriginal remake mix" would be more accurate...

So, the 12" version of The Perfect Kiss is 8'46". I just converted the full Qwest 1985 12" single to cd last night and the total running time is 8'20". So, since I own the original 12" single and didn't edit it in any way when I was converting it. I was wondering where that extra 26" went? Is the Factory Perfect Kiss 12" different from the Qwest Perfect Kiss 12"?

[Content deleted by Andy T on 11/5/2002 10:07:22 PM EDT]

Originally posted by Guyfamous So, the 12" version of The Perfect Kiss is 8'46". I just converted the full Qwest 1985 12" single to cd last night and the total running time is 8'20". So, since I own the original 12" single and didn't edit it in any way when I was converting it. I was wondering where that extra 26" went? Is the Factory Perfect Kiss 12" different from the Qwest Perfect Kiss 12"?

Your turntable is probably just spinning a bit too fast.

whoa! lots of info on an extra 44 seconds of a song...couldn't factory make things easier by having whatever's on cassette be the same as whatever's on cd or vinyl?

The French Two CD set has Confusion 87 and Perfect Kiss Edit (from what i recall).

I know someone who bought the UK CD, and the versions of Confusion and Perfect Kiss are edited ones (ie. Confusion 87 and Perfect Kiss Edit (LowLife))...

Originally posted by N21 I know someone who bought the UK CD, and the versions of Confusion and Perfect Kiss are edited ones (ie. Confusion 87 and Perfect Kiss Edit (LowLife))...

Which seems to imply only Canadians get the version that might just concivably be worth buying. I've noticed that happens consistently with New Order releases, Canada always gets special treatment (e.g. only place to get the extra WIM mixes on cd, only place to get all the Fine Time mixes and B sides on one cd, only place to get the Arthur Baker LWTUA mix on the reissued single, only place to get original temptation on cd, etc...). Lucky Canuck bastards!

Originally posted by low-life it seems like there are (at least) two versions of the new "greatest/best/here to stay/international" in a one CD version (while there seems to be a 2 CD special French version also)1) Here to Stay... 12 tracks with 6 12" mixes (seems to be Canada and UK (guessing))CeremonyBlue Monday (Original 12 " Mix)Confusion (Original Arthur Baker 12" Mix)Thieves Like Us Perfect Kiss (Original 12" Mix)Shellshock Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) True Faith (Original 12" Mix)Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) Crystal60MPHHere To Stay (edit)2) International or Here to Stay ... with 14 tracks (Australia, Germany, Mozambique?)CeremonyBlue Monday (Original 12 " Mix)Confusion ...(version ?)Thieves Like Us Perfect Kiss Shellshock Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) True FaithTouched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) Round & RoundRegretCrystal60MPHHere To Staytherefore one version would have the long Perfect Kiss 12", while the other ran out of room... as the CD Substance ran out of room i must assume.just looking stuff up on the internet. if anybody has better information, feel free to correct/update

Hmmm, amazon.com lists

Here to Stay [IMPORT] (import from where??)

1. Ceremony
2. Blue Monday (Original 12" Mix)
3. Confusion (Robie 12" Mix)
4. Thieves Like Us
5. Perfect Kiss (Original 12" Mix)
6. Shellshock
7. Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12" Mix)
8. True Faith
9. Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12")
10. Round & Round
11. Regret
12. Crystal
13. 60 Miles An Hour
14. Here To Stay (Radio Edit)

which doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally posted by pete poorten > Originally posted by N21> I know someone who bought the UK CD, and the versions of Confusion and Perfect Kiss are edited ones (ie. Confusion 87 and Perfect Kiss Edit (LowLife))...

Which seems to imply only Canadians get the version that might just concivably be worth buying. I've noticed that happens consistently with New Order releases, Canada always gets special treatment (e.g. only place to get the extra WIM mixes on cd, only place to get all the Fine Time mixes and B sides on one cd, only place to get the Arthur Baker LWTUA mix on the reissued single, only place to get original temptation on cd, etc...). Lucky Canuck bastards!

Originally posted by pete poorten > Originally posted by low-life> it seems like there are (at least) two versions of the new "greatest/best/here to stay/international" in a one CD version (while there seems to be a 2 CD special French version also)> > 1) Here to Stay... 12 tracks with 6 12" mixes (seems to be Canada and UK (guessing))> > Ceremony> Blue Monday (Original 12 " Mix)> Confusion (Original Arthur Baker 12" Mix)> Thieves Like Us > Perfect Kiss (Original 12" Mix)> Shellshock > Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) > True Faith (Original 12" Mix)> Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) > Crystal> 60MPH> Here To Stay (edit)> > 2) International or Here to Stay ... with 14 tracks (Australia, Germany, Mozambique?)> > Ceremony> Blue Monday (Original 12 " Mix)> Confusion ...(version ?)> Thieves Like Us > Perfect Kiss > Shellshock > Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12 " Mix) > True Faith> Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12 "Mix) > Round & Round> Regret> Crystal> 60MPH> Here To Stay> > > therefore one version would have the long Perfect Kiss 12", while the other ran out of room... as the CD Substance ran out of room i must assume.> > > just looking stuff up on the internet. if anybody has better information, feel free to correct/update > > >

Hmmm, amazon.com lists

Here to Stay [IMPORT] (import from where??)

1. Ceremony
2. Blue Monday (Original 12" Mix)
3. Confusion (Robie 12" Mix)
4. Thieves Like Us
5. Perfect Kiss (Original 12" Mix)
6. Shellshock
7. Bizarre Love Triangle (Shep Pettibone 12" Mix)
8. True Faith
9. Touched By The Hand Of God (Original 12")
10. Round & Round
11. Regret
12. Crystal
13. 60 Miles An Hour
14. Here To Stay (Radio Edit)

which doesn't make any sense at all.

Here is the french track listing: 2xCD: FR 2002 (London Records 90 Ltd 5050466144522)

Disc One:

1. 4:25 Ceremony (=Substance)
2. 7:26 Blue Monday (=Substance)
3. 4:42 Confusion 87 (=Subtance)
4. 6:38 Thieves Like Us (=Substance)
5. 4:51 The Perfect Kiss (=Low Life)
6. 6:30 Shellshock (=Substance)
7. 6:44 Bizarre Love Triangle (=Substance)
8. 5:52 True Faith (=Substance)
9. 7:04 TBTHOG (original 12")
10. 4:01 Round and Round
11. 4:10 Regret (=Republic)
12. 6:52 Crystal (=Get Ready)
13. 4:36 60 Miles an Hour (=Get Ready)
14. 3:56 Here to Stay (radio edit) (=NUOCD11)

Disc Two:

1. 7:01 Temptation 87 (=Substance)
2. 5:12 Lomesome Tonight (=Substance)
3. 6:18 Fine Time Silk Hurley Mix
4. 6:50 Round and Round Sanderson 12" mix
5. 3:56 Let's Go

Originally posted by N21 I know someone who bought the UK CD, and the versions of Confusion and Perfect Kiss are edited ones (ie. Confusion 87 and Perfect Kiss Edit (LowLife))...

Warning !

He told me he got an import version in a UK CD shop -> you UK guys should get the extended versions anyway !

Originally posted by Spotnick

Which seems to imply only Canadians get the version that might just concivably be worth buying. I've noticed that happens consistently with New Order releases, Canada always gets special treatment (e.g. only place to get the extra WIM mixes on cd, only place to get all the Fine Time mixes and B sides on one cd, only place to get the Arthur Baker LWTUA mix on the reissued single, only place to get original temptation on cd, etc...). Lucky Canuck bastards!

I think it is because Canada has no real policy on releases chart-wise. UK release have to be spread over threee different formts, with a maximum time of over 20 minutes (or something) to be eligible in the charts. Europe just simply takes the original UK formats and release them.

As for Canada, they might do what they want. I don't think ithe fact the past releases filled with all mixes have to do with the fact they have a fan working at Polygram...

If you are really desperate to have the 8:44 minute version of "Perfect Kiss" in CD format, there is a way to do it...

If you check out the CD version of "Substance", you'll notice that the song "Kiss of Death" has the missing 40 seconds. What I did was burned "Perfect Kiss" and "Kiss of Death" into my computer, downloaded an MP3 editor, and then took the missing keyboard part out of "Kiss of Death" then added it into "Perfect Kiss".

It took me about an hour to do it, and for some reason the song only clocks in at 8:30 now. I'm not sure what I'm missing, but at least that cool keyboard part is in there now.

Ah-ha, but the UK one isn't out yet!

Anyway, I've now looked through about 5 different threads on this subject and still can't fathom the answer!

Does the Canadian version have the full length mix of Perfect Kiss or not?

Cheers,

Nick

It doesn't matter cos i have them ALL in PERFECT nick on VINYL anyhow?CD's can sound a bit tinny anyhow!:p So don't worry about this...it just ain't worth it. But i too cannot fathom out which ONE has been released but by 8 mins i start to anticipate the NEXT track so it HAS NOT really EVER bothered me. Ps and no matter what a record sleeve is always going to be better than the small CD cover.LESS IS LESS.:D

Try THIS

Originally posted by Old Blue Try THIS

THANK YOU!

Well, I finally perfected using my MP3 editor, and now I made a version of "Perfect Kiss" that clocks in at 8:46. It sounds flawless, so if anyone wants it look me up on AIM and we can meet on Kazaa or WinMX.

Originally posted by Old Blue Try THIS

sounds great thanks

Is the New Order 'Confusion' on Arthur Baker's Breaking CD ( Track 1 Disc 2 ) the original 12" mix...it clocks past 8'00, i think......

I believe the only other place you can find the original 12" mix of Temptation on CD, other than the Canadian 1981-82 EP CD, is the Polygram Compilation CD of 80's indie/alternative artists called DEVOLUTION released in 1995....which I fortunately own.... ...it has the 8'50" Temptation original mix as well as other classics like extended Cure's 'A Forest', Pete Shelly 'Homosapien'..... ....the only sore point in the compilation being Generation X's 'Wanking With Myself'....

Originally posted by Find-My-'Bowl'-As-I-Go-Home Is the New Order 'Confusion' on Arthur Baker's Breaking CD ( Track 1 Disc 2 ) the original 12" mix...it clocks past 8'00, i think......

I've a feeling it's the "Rough Mix" from the b-side, but don't quote me on that. I haven't got the CD, but I'm sure someone here mentioned it.

Originally posted by Old Blue > Originally posted by Find-My-'Bowl'-As-I-Go-Home> Is the New Order 'Confusion' on Arthur Baker's Breaking CD ( Track 1 Disc 2 ) the original 12" mix...it clocks past 8'00, i think......>

I've a feeling it's the "Rough Mix" from the b-side, but don't quote me on that. I haven't got the CD, but I'm sure someone here mentioned it.

Aye, that's right, the Rough Mix it is. The original 12" will be on Retro, the Instrumental is already on Substance disc 2, so the only 1983 mixes not on CD will be the 7" edit and Confused Beats.

Andy

Originally posted by Low-Life Well, I finally perfected using my MP3 editor, and now I made a version of "Perfect Kiss" that clocks in at 8:46. It sounds flawless, so if anyone wants it look me up on AIM and we can meet on Kazaa or WinMX.

That's still not quite the same as the original full length version, as 'Kiss Of Death' is mixed differently, and has different levels etc.

Andy.

Originally posted by Old Blue > Originally posted by Find-My-'Bowl'-As-I-Go-Home> Is the New Order 'Confusion' on Arthur Baker's Breaking CD ( Track 1 Disc 2 ) the original 12" mix...it clocks past 8'00, i think......>

I've a feeling it's the "Rough Mix" from the b-side, but don't quote me on that. I haven't got the CD, but I'm sure someone here mentioned it.

it is.

[Content deleted by Low-Life on 11/14/2002 5:01:53 AM EDT]

All the talk of getting the original vinyl singles onto CD aminly mentions just 'Perfect Kiss, 'Temptation' and 'Confusion', but has anyone noticed that what with the "clipped" 'Substance' versions of songs back in 1987, there's still full length 12" mixes of 'Sub-Culture', 'Hurt' and the fantasic 10 minute long version of 'Shellshock' that are all unavailable on CD. Then most of the seven inch versions, of course...

Never mind, eh?

Andy.

Yeah, the 12" of shellshock has the

"after all the years / now i can't stand the tears / somethings gonna happen / shellshock"

thingy bit.

Originally posted by Andrew Morrison > Originally posted by Low-Life> Well, I finally perfected using my MP3 editor, and now I made a version of "Perfect Kiss" that clocks in at 8:46. It sounds flawless, so if anyone wants it look me up on AIM and we can meet on Kazaa or WinMX.

That's still not quite the same as the original full length version, as 'Kiss Of Death' is mixed differently, and has different levels etc.

Andy.

So that makes it an entirely new mix! Perhaps you should enter it in the 'whats the rareist new order item you own' thread.

Originally posted by Major T Yeah, the 12" of shellshock has the"after all the years / now i can't stand the tears / somethings gonna happen / shellshock"thingy bit.

That verse is also in the original 6:03 version on the Pretty in Pink soundtrack.