Legal Issues

I wonder if the legal issues between Peter Hook and New Order will delay the release of the new album? I really hope not, I just wish they could get all this sorted out. Even if Peter Hook is never going to be in New Order again.

Why would it? They've already released 3 albums post-split under the New Order name (Live At The London Troxy, Live At Bestival, Lost Sirens), and Hook isn't involved in any of the new music they're making, so he can't claim any sort of rights to it.

Well the legal issues delayed the Lost Sirens release for a year...

The album that he was involved in.

Is there defo new material coming out! Anything known about it? 😎

Peter Hook could claim that he is still part owner of the name and enterprise called "New Order". Hasn't Hooky complained in the past that they offered him a pittance to get lost, which he found insulting in his opinion.

I have no idea what actually has gone on, and since this would be the first new songs released under the NO name without him, who knows if Hooky would have a legal say or not. Didn't the two live albums have a charity angle, were basically official "bootlegs" of little commercial potential.

Who knows if Bernard has any songs ready anyway.

0_o wrote:

Who knows if Bernard has any songs ready anyway.

Yeah, I can't offer any 'proper' info but I've always been sceptical. I summed up my thoughts ages ago and as expected there's been sweet FA to convince me otherwise in the meantime (45 at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=12235). Ho hum... I told Melanie C she had a clandestine relationship with my pet kangaroo. She wasn't convinced. She said, Is yer wallaby my lover?

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

0_o wrote:

Who knows if Bernard has any songs ready anyway.

Yeah, I can't offer any 'proper' info but I've always been sceptical. I summed up my thoughts ages ago and as expected there's been sweet FA to convince me otherwise in the meantime (45 at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=12235). Ho hum... I told Melanie C she had a clandestine relationship with my pet kangaroo. She wasn't convinced. She said, Is yer wallaby my lover?

Genius

I don't think it will delay things. I'm sure I remember something about a settlement being reached... although I could have imagined it...

If Hook can release "Pictures in My Mind" as a """new""" JD song then Shirley NO can release "whatever" as an NO song?

UpDownTurnAround wrote: I don't think it will delay things. I'm sure I remember something about a settlement being reached... although I could have imagined it...

If Hook can release "Pictures in My Mind" as a """new""" JD song then Shirley NO can release "whatever" as an NO song?

At long last New Order have someone who can play bass in Tom, and none of that daft arm waving. Why anyone would wanna see a tribute band when the real thing is there is beyond me.

I reckon that given that GR, WFTSC and Lost Sirens all have some duff tracks on, perhaps the current band are writing the hell out of a new thing and junking songs to silence the doubters. That would be wishful thinking. Wish N.O. would do more UK/European live dates.

markreed wrote: I reckon that given that GR, WFTSC and Lost Sirens all have some duff tracks on, perhaps the current band are writing the hell out of a new thing and junking songs to silence the doubters. That would be wishful thinking. Wish N.O. would do more UK/European live dates.

Agreed, I need a New Order live fix

markreed wrote: perhaps the current band are writing the hell out of a new thing and junking songs to silence the doubters. quote]

05.55 - 05.58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM7dxdi4o\_8

Three scenarios are possible:

1. Hook gets paid a satisfactory amount to no longer be part of the legal entity that is 'New Order' - Most Likely
2. Hook gets paid a percentage for the next album - Less Likely
3. Hook loses case completely and gets nothing - Unlikely, but possible.

It's weird that we have situation where both parties are right in a way and both legal teams will fight that. Hook will state that New Order cannot be a legs entity as he is not a part of it. 'New Order's' counsel will state that Hook decided to leave voluntarily and that was his call. The other members want to carry on.

The nearest I can think to this is Pink Floyd, and Roger Waters lost. You shouldn't have a situation where because one member of the band leaves, it cannot carry on with the same name - otherwise bands names would be changing all the time! Yet the nuts and bolts of the legal side is more complex and it sounds if New Order may have set them up for a difficult negotiation with a flawed legal agreement.

I do miss the tension in New Order and that was part of it's special nature. Bands that get on very well, tend to make dull music, bar the odd exception.

komakino wrote:

I do miss the tension in New Order and that was part of it's special nature. Bands that get on very well, tend to make dull music, bar the odd exception.

Interesting points. You could argue that N.O music has been relatively dull the past 20 years despite the tension - I think age and lifestyle are way more influential especially when you hear BS's current influences.

Secondly, I'm not sure how Hooky expects to get a pay-off or royalties on future recordings. Do The Light pass on prs/royalties for using the JD/NO catalogue? Playing his arch rival's songs every night seems a strange act of revenge. Anyway, looking forward to hearing Fine Time in about a year or so.

komakino wrote: Three scenarios are possible:

1. Hook gets paid a satisfactory amount to no longer be part of the legal entity that is 'New Order' - Most Likely
2. Hook gets paid a percentage for the next album - Less Likely
3. Hook loses case completely and gets nothing - Unlikely, but possible.

It's weird that we have situation where both parties are right in a way and both legal teams will fight that. Hook will state that New Order cannot be a legs entity as he is not a part of it. 'New Order's' counsel will state that Hook decided to leave voluntarily and that was his call. The other members want to carry on.

The nearest I can think to this is Pink Floyd, and Roger Waters lost. You shouldn't have a situation where because one member of the band leaves, it cannot carry on with the same name - otherwise bands names would be changing all the time! Yet the nuts and bolts of the legal side is more complex and it sounds if New Order may have set them up for a difficult negotiation with a flawed legal agreement.

I do miss the tension in New Order and that was part of it's special nature. Bands that get on very well, tend to make dull music, bar the odd exception.

The old agreement was that the band would change name if a member left, but that was forgotten around 2000 when Gillian had to look after her daughter. The issue with that - that Hook calls them "Fraud Order" - to me, is that he never had any problems with the band using the New Order when Gillian left, only when he left. And as far as I know, Hook made the decision to leave and was not fired. Therefore he voluntarily chose to give up involvement in the band, and thought the band was over just because he left. As I understood it, Bad Lieutenant existed (and not New Order in 2007-2011) mostly due to Gillian's illness and Mr Morris quite rightly looking after her during that time.

It is 100% a rerun of the Pink Floyd departure. However, Roger Waters took until The Floyd were defunct for 12 years before he took upon touring the old Floyd albums all over the world.

BS says in the NME interview that Hook gets paid for use of the New Order name, alongside the fact that he is credited as a writer on every single New Order track, and thus, must get royalties for every time they, he, or Kylie play a New Order or Joy Division song live or on record, even if it is only 3p* a time.

(*a guess)

Hook has said he is an oppressed minority which isn't strictly accurate, as he has chosen to leave the group and is not an active participant member in NewOrder as is, as he left in 2007. As for what happened before then I don't know. I'm fairly sure, if common sense prevails, they will do the same as Pink Floyd, and reach an agreement before it gets to court. I can't see it likely Hook will play will the rest of the band ever again, so it's more a case of agreeing the terms of seperation, Hook getting royalties for previous New Order record sales and writing etc., and letting them all continue to follow their seperate paths.

Sadly, solicitors get paid a fair whack by the hour, and will often not suggest a quick and easy pre-court agreement when there's a tasty court case between musicians they can charge £250 an hour for.

Neilypeel wrote: Is there defo new material coming out! Anything known about it? 😎

Yeah mate, they've recorded demos of "8 or 9" songs, they're recording them properly basically starting this week. the songs are more dance/electronic/synth than the last few albums Bernard's done, the Chemical Brothers did production for 3 songs, NO are doing the production for the rest. they've performed 2 of the new songs live, 'Plastic' and 'Singularity'. They want to write 2 or 3 more songs to complete the album, then they will either release it in full or release a few songs at a time in EPs. (it's undecided) Stephen said he would like to get the album done by the end of the year, but has no guarantee it'll happen. It'll be released on Mute Records. (Depeche Mode, Erasure, Fad Gadget, Goldfrapp, etc.)

That's basically all we know.

Re: The Chemical Brothers, if they've already done some new collaborating (as BS suggested), it's weird that they wouldn't have recorded those tracks already, as Tom Rowlands is very much a 'studio' guy. (Incidentally Ed Simons isn't involved - too busy doing a university course). Former 'Nu-Ravers' Klaxons worked with Rowlands on a number of tracks for their 2014 album too. But they didn't work with him and then come back to record them later...

As much as I love the Chemical Brothers, I should probably mention that Rowlands couldn't really polish the turd that was the Klaxons current album. The track below is probably the only good thing that came out of the Klaxons/Rowlands hook up, and this was a remix rather than the album version.

Vimeo