Unsolicited Setlist Recommendations for NO

I provide these unsolicited setlist recommendations for the current lineup of New Order, with explanations. What are your recommendations?

1. Primitive Notion - of the songs recorded in the last 15 years, I am dumbfounded why this one has not been played live (as far as I can tell). It has a little bit of everything and is probably one of the best songs on Get Ready in my opinion. With two guitars and Gillian available to play the snyth line, I would think this would be great live.

2. Broken Promise - three guitar attack and would be completely awesome. Vocally I am not sure Bernard would need to change the key on it and would be a nice change up to throw into the set.

3. Everyone Everywhere - in the past I read that Bernard stated the chords were tricky to play live. With Phil able to tackle that, I think it could work and again, not sure much needs to be done with the vocals. I've always loved this one live and think it would be a welcome addition to the set (sub or rotate it in for World).

4. Someone Like You - with the focus on getting back in touch with the electronic sound, I cannot think of a better song to uncork in the set. Again, another song they've not played live, but I think with Gillian in the fold, it could be done and would very fun tucked into the set towards the end before launching into the end.

5. Everything's Gone Green - I really think this one is crying out for a reworking, much like 586, it could be something glorious to behold and nestled in with Temptation it could really stand out in the set. It would also conceivably allow them to consider rotating BLT or TF in and out on a nightly basis.

These are as stated unsolicited setlist ideas/recommendations/thoughts. Are there songs I would rather hear than these? Sure, I'd peronally love TLU, but given the comments I've seen Bernard is not a huge fan of the live arrangement, and thus, I'm not sure it will see the light of day again. Same goes for almost anything off Technique, but again, not sure where the band is on those tracks. The above are songs I think the band should try out and see if they work. I'd love to see them get to a point where they can pull from a mix of 30-35 songs. Just some random thoughts at 6am as I read the setlist from last night....

While as disappointed with static setlists as most fans, I've come to accept it over the years. As long as the set includes Bizarre Love Triangle and Temptation, I'll likely be satisfied with the opportunity of experiencing them live once more. The only other track that comes close to being essential for me is Your Silent Face. I would take All Day Long as a substitute, though, as it comes closest to matching YSFs' majesty when performed well.

With the more frequent outings recently, I think the obligation to include Blue Monday every show has disappeared. I'd rather they drop it than witness Barney suffering through the 7+ minute performance*.

On board for more Technique tracks as well. Mr. Disco, Vanishing Point and (strangely) Fine Time sounded massive at the two 1989 shows I attended.

*Alternative: I saw The Killers on their last tour and they took to opening with the obligatory Mr. Brightside while the house lights were still on. Took most by surprise and made quite the impact.

Who's Joe? wrote: I provide these unsolicited setlist recommendations for the current lineup of New Order, with explanations. What are your recommendations?

1. Primitive Notion - of the songs recorded in the last 15 years, I am dumbfounded why this one has not been played live (as far as I can tell). It has a little bit of everything and is probably one of the best songs on Get Ready in my opinion. With two guitars and Gillian available to play the snyth line, I would think this would be great live.

2. Broken Promise - three guitar attack and would be completely awesome. Vocally I am not sure Bernard would need to change the key on it and would be a nice change up to throw into the set.

3. Everyone Everywhere - in the past I read that Bernard stated the chords were tricky to play live. With Phil able to tackle that, I think it could work and again, not sure much needs to be done with the vocals. I've always loved this one live and think it would be a welcome addition to the set (sub or rotate it in for World).

4. Someone Like You - with the focus on getting back in touch with the electronic sound, I cannot think of a better song to uncork in the set. Again, another song they've not played live, but I think with Gillian in the fold, it could be done and would very fun tucked into the set towards the end before launching into the end.

5. Everything's Gone Green - I really think this one is crying out for a reworking, much like 586, it could be something glorious to behold and nestled in with Temptation it could really stand out in the set. It would also conceivably allow them to consider rotating BLT or TF in and out on a nightly basis.

These are as stated unsolicited setlist ideas/recommendations/thoughts. Are there songs I would rather hear than these? Sure, I'd peronally love TLU, but given the comments I've seen Bernard is not a huge fan of the live arrangement, and thus, I'm not sure it will see the light of day again. Same goes for almost anything off Technique, but again, not sure where the band is on those tracks. The above are songs I think the band should try out and see if they work. I'd love to see them get to a point where they can pull from a mix of 30-35 songs. Just some random thoughts at 6am as I read the setlist from last night....

I wouldn't argue with any of those additions. Id add Lonesome Tonight. Its one of their finest songs IMO. I think they could make that work live and be really powerful.

Id also add This Time of Night too. I love the dark mood of this song.

Also, if you only have one chance to see New Order, avoid making it a festival. The time (and other) constraints water down the experience.

Every Little Cunts

The main one for me would be leave me alone, one of the greatest songs ever.

Vanishing point would be great this sounded good when they played it on the technique tour, would fit in a set well if they are going more synth based.

I like the idea of Primitive motion also from get ready turn my way.

As it is when I was another great sounding live track that has not been aired for quite some time.

Hellbent - newish track that grows on me with every listen.

And as the original poster suggested everything gone green - still sounds fresh to this day, hooky playing this brilliantly live.

I agree it's about time blue Monday, regret and BLT gave a rest from the set.

I never get bored of temptation, ceremony or YSF, so they can all stay for me.

Setlist threads are always popular and I'd like to suggest a formula to construct your ideal set. Choose 16 tracks from the following:

10 tracks drawn from the 8 original LP's (you can ignore an album if you want more tracks from another).

5 non-album tracks (single, soundtrack, compilation, Lost Sirens, etc.)

1 Joy Division cover (surely this is enough)

Also, a 2 track medley counts as two tracks, for you sneaky old-timers!

Here's my first draft:

Here to Stay Regret Sub-Culture Waiting For the Sirens' Call Dream Attack Singularity Ceremony Your Silent Face Age of Consent Mr. Disco Vanishing Point Bizarre Love Triangle Face Up Love Will Tear Us Apart

encore:

Lonesome Tonight Temptation

I really think that Jetstream is overdue for a revival.

J-E-T

ZASmusic wrote: I really think that Jetstream is overdue for a revival.

J-E-T

Some would rather it wind up in the Indian Ocean!

I don't hate it (like the Richard X mix quite a bit). But don't yearn to hear it performed live. Some tracks I love didn't make my list (Leave Me Alone, Love Less and 1963, for example) due to the fact that they're not as effective in the live setting.

Andy wrote:

ZASmusic wrote: I really think that Jetstream is overdue for a revival.

J-E-T

Some would rather it wind up in the Indian Ocean!

I don't hate it (like the Richard X mix quite a bit). But don't yearn to hear it performed live. Some tracks I love didn't make my list (Leave Me Alone, Love Less and 1963, for example) due to the fact that they're not as effective in the live setting.

My love of Jetstream is real and well documented in this forum, but my post was partly in jest. :)

I'd love to see Fine Time and Vanishing Point return.

ZASmusic wrote: I really think that Jetstream is overdue for a revival.

J-E-T

Knew I could count on you to raise the JET flag high. I'll never forget that one shining moment when Ana came on stage in NYC. I think the song should be frozen in that moment. The last time I saw Hook with the band, the last time I heard it live.....when I really wanted Who's Joe.....

Everything's Gone Green would be wonderful.

Although they'd probably give it an orchestral two-minute opening now and introduce a clapping section.

A couple of the current tracks could do with a proper kick up the arse too - the click-tracks on Ceremony and Age of Consent remove all the chaotic joy from both songs. The latter especially needs speeding up just a smidgeon as it currently sounds quite laboured and downbeat.

I'd also go with EGG, and Lonesome Tonight.... and would love to hear The Village - now that Gillian's back I'm sure they could make a decent fist of one of my all-time favourite album tracks.

Low Life wrote: I'd also go with EGG, and Lonesome Tonight.... and would love to hear The Village - now that Gillian's back I'm sure they could make a decent fist of one of my all-time favourite album tracks.

I was gonna suggest the Village - good choice - but then had a rethink cos I guess that's way too high for Barney's vocal these days?

El Jarvo wrote:

Low Life wrote: had a rethink cos I guess that's way too high for Barney's vocal these days?

It always was!

http://www.neworderonline.com/forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=33184

Procession and Liar with Mel C on backing vocals Pictures in my Mind Ecstasy Pineapple Face And let's not forget True Faith '98, Temptation and Blue Monday

Open with Ultraviolence.

I'd like to add "dreams never end" . They've not played that in ages. . . .

Why torture yourselves? It's pretty obvious that the band are either not interested enough to care about changing the setlist or are simply too lazy to re-learn anything new. Playing festival slots gives them the perfect excuse to do this because these are the sets where they are expected to just play the hits anyway. Nice of them to play a new song ahead of its release but I'm sure that most fans would rather hear something, anything, from Technique.

Hooky plays most of the songs you lot are requesting with a lot more passion and vigour than this lineup of N.O ever will. And for a fraction of the price.

Mr_D1sco wrote: Why torture yourselves? It's pretty obvious that the band are either not interested enough to care about changing the setlist or are simply too lazy to re-learn anything new. Playing festival slots gives them the perfect excuse to do this because these are the sets where they are expected to just play the hits anyway. Nice of them to play a new song ahead of its release but I'm sure that most fans would rather hear something, anything, from Technique.

Hooky plays most of the songs you lot are requesting with a lot more passion and vigour than this lineup of N.O ever will. And for a fraction of the price.

Remind me again how many entirely new song's Hooky and the Light have performed...?

A cover band doing songs with passion and vigour is still a cover band.

Also - if the band are "not interested enough" or "too lazy" to add different songs to their setlists ... where does this leave Elegia, 1963, Here to stay, TLU, 586, I'll stay with you, Californian Grass, Round & round*, Singularity...?

*Technique track.

I can't disagree about the price thing you mention though - I'm sure the Light are cheaper to see than New Order...I suggest there is a good reason for that.

ctb

I understand the "It's not New Order without Hooky" sentiment that some hold. But to suggest that The Light are somehow more valid than the current lineup is ludicrous.

CTB wrote: I can't disagree about the price thing you mention though - I'm sure the Light are cheaper to see than New Order...I suggest there is a good reason for that.

It's a brand name.

One that Hooky helped build up.

The size of the gigs Hooky's doing are on a par with the gigs Bad Lieutenant did (with 4 of the current line-up of New Order). They couldn't charge much for those either, even when playing the likes of BLT, Regret, Ceremony and Temptation.

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: I can't disagree about the price thing you mention though - I'm sure the Light are cheaper to see than New Order...I suggest there is a good reason for that.

It's a brand name.

One that Hooky helped build up.

The size of the gigs Hooky's doing are on a par with the gigs Bad Lieutenant did (with 4 of the current line-up of New Order). They couldn't charge much for those either, even when playing the likes of BLT, Regret, Ceremony and Temptation.

Cynicism notwithstanding, Al - it's a 'brand name' that Hooky voluntarily left in 2007 - he may have helped build it up, but he still seems very bitter that he has (thus far) failed to tear it down again.

BL and The Light are not a fair comparison, irrespective of ticket prices or venue size - BL promoted an album of entirely new material with some NO/JD/BS solo tracks for the fans who bothered to show up; in contrast The Light are a textbook definition of a tribute act - with exactly fuck all original material, and in my opinion, roughly the same quantity of credibility.

But, each to their own...

CTB wrote: BL and The Light are not a fair comparison, irrespective of ticket prices or venue size - BL promoted an album of entirely new material with some NO/JD/BS solo tracks for the fans who bothered to show up; in contrast The Light are a textbook definition of a tribute act - with exactly fuck all original material, and in my opinion, roughly the same quantity of credibility.

How are the Light a "textbook definition of a tribute act" when they include Peter Hook who was part of both Joy Division and New Order for a good 30 years?

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: BL and The Light are not a fair comparison, irrespective of ticket prices or venue size - BL promoted an album of entirely new material with some NO/JD/BS solo tracks for the fans who bothered to show up; in contrast The Light are a textbook definition of a tribute act - with exactly fuck all original material, and in my opinion, roughly the same quantity of credibility.

How are the Light a "textbook definition of a tribute act" when they include Peter Hook who was part of both Joy Division and New Order for a good 30 years?

Because Peter Hook was the non-singing bass player in those bands for 30 years (with very few exceptions, DNE and Interzone), not the lead vocalist who wears a bass as a stage prop.

If he was performing the same role in the Light as he did in JD/NO, I'd be less critical, but to voluntarily leave the band he had been part of for 30 years only to get some session musos and bass-playing son to help you pretend you are the singer of the band you were in and then tour said former band's albums track-by-track....not much dignity there IMO.

CTB wrote: Because Peter Hook was the non-singing bass player in those bands for 30 years (with very few exceptions, DNE and Interzone), not the lead vocalist who wears a bass as a stage prop.

If he was performing the same role in the Light as he did in JD/NO, I'd be less critical, but to voluntarily leave the band he had been part of for 30 years only to get some session musos and bass-playing son to help you pretend you are the singer of the band you were in and then tour said former band's albums track-by-track....not much dignity there IMO.

Do you feel as strongly about New Order performing the likes of Isolation, Atmosphere and LWTUA in their current set?

Or indeed, even, Ceremony?

Given that only 2 of the 5 actually had any part in those tracks and one of them is providing vocals for which he was not originally responsible?

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: Because Peter Hook was the non-singing bass player in those bands for 30 years (with very few exceptions, DNE and Interzone), not the lead vocalist who wears a bass as a stage prop.

If he was performing the same role in the Light as he did in JD/NO, I'd be less critical, but to voluntarily leave the band he had been part of for 30 years only to get some session musos and bass-playing son to help you pretend you are the singer of the band you were in and then tour said former band's albums track-by-track....not much dignity there IMO.

Do you feel as strongly about New Order performing the likes of Isolation, Atmosphere and LWTUA in their current set?

Or indeed, even, Ceremony?

Given that only 2 of the 5 actually had any part in those tracks and one of them is providing vocals for which he was not originally responsible?

No, I don't. I don't feel any different about the pre-Hook departure version of NO playing those songs than I do about the current line up doing them.

Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic)

Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs?

Answers on a postcard...

CTB wrote: Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic)

Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs?

Answers on a postcard...

No, I don't.

But then I'm not the one deriding Hooky's band as being the "textbook definition of a tribute act".

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: Do you feel that New Order shouldn't have performed Gilbert-co-written songs live from 2001-2007? It's the same perspective (unless this thread is about to descend to the murky "Hooky was more important to NO than Gillian" territory, which is a rubbish topic)

Conversely, would you have NO retire their entire Hook-era songs to render them more valid? Taking this logic further, doesn't this mean you're equating Ian's suicide and Hooky's public acting out/leaving NO as equal grounds for the retirement of songs?

Answers on a postcard...

No, I don't.

But then I'm not the one deriding Hooky's band as being the "textbook definition of a tribute act".

Guess I am the one who is doing that - and I stand by it. Hooky's touring of JD nostalgia was dubious but touring NO albums deserves derision.

I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own.

CTB slightly edging ahead in the debate.

Unfortunately, can't seem to back down from his claim that a definitive tribute band contains a member of the original act. Afraid he's on his own with that one.

Andy wrote: CTB slightly edging ahead in the debate.

Unfortunately, can't seem to back down from his claim that a definitive tribute band contains a member of the original act. Afraid he's on his own with that one.

I might've chosen my words prematurely earlier, admittedly the Light is not strictly speaking a 'textbook definition' (if such a thing exists?) of a tribute act.....but IMO is much closer to a tribute act or cover band than the current line up of New Order.

Perhaps I'll acknowledge that the two bands are similar when NO becomes Steve singing all the songs with a prop snare drum in front of him while one of his kids plays drums and some session musos from The Other Two album do a tour playing Substance from start to finish...?

Brazilian Order get ready for World in Motion tomorrow!!! Yeah!!!

Sometimes I think Hooky should actually answer every question in a bearpit : certainly, being questioned about his position by people that are knowledgable about the band and able to counter his position - not people that are either OHMYGODIM'MTALKINGTOSOMEONEFROMTHEBAND Hipsters or know-nothing journos - that would be interesting. To an extent, I'd rather he just say "I need the money to pay the lawyers to fight the band". There's a reason John Cleese called his live show "The Alimony Tour."

On the other hand? Setlist time. Here we go.

1. Ceremony* (It's a JD song)
2. Regret
3. Crystal (drum intro)
4. Here To Stay OR I'll Stay With You
5. Round & Round OR World OR Chemical
6. Vanishing Point OR Mr. Disco
7. Krafty OR Sirens Call
8. Thieves Like Us OR Confusion OR Run
9. Bizarre Love Triangle
10. True Faith
11. 586 - medley into >
12. Everything's Gone Green - medley into >
13. Temptation
14. Fine Time --
15. The Perfect Kiss
16. Blue Monday

LWTUA (optional)

CTB wrote: I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own.

And I'm surprised there's so much animosity surrounding a bloke who has helped soundtrack the majority of our lives.

Still, as you say, each to their own.

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: I'm surprised that there's so much defensiveness around Hooky still, in the light (sorry) of what he's doing with The Light, as the idea of quitting New Order in order to do New Order album tours is pretty indefensible IMO, but each to their own.

And I'm surprised there's so much animosity surrounding a bloke who has helped soundtrack the majority of our lives.

Still, as you say, each to their own.

I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light.

CTB wrote: I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light.

You better brace yourself then. I'm sure any war of words will ramp up astronomically in the near future as there'll be New Order books coming from both camps, presumably by the end of this year.

Let's face it, the bickering will help sell any future product and keep them firmly in the spotlight in the press.

makes you wonder how many of barneys lyrics aren't about former conquests but are in fact a thinly veiled attack on the Hookstar.

way of life face up hey now, what you doing etc, etc

markreed wrote: Sometimes I think Hooky should actually answer every question in a bearpit : certainly, being questioned about his position by people that are knowledgable about the band and able to counter his position - not people that are either OHMYGODIM'MTALKINGTOSOMEONEFROMTHEBAND Hipsters or know-nothing journos - that would be interesting. To an extent, I'd rather he just say "I need the money to pay the lawyers to fight the band". There's a reason John Cleese called his live show "The Alimony Tour."

On the other hand? Setlist time. Here we go.

1. Ceremony* (It's a JD song)
2. Regret
3. Crystal (drum intro)
4. Here To Stay OR I'll Stay With You
5. Round & Round OR World OR Chemical
6. Vanishing Point OR Mr. Disco
7. Krafty OR Sirens Call
8. Thieves Like Us OR Confusion OR Run
9. Bizarre Love Triangle
10. True Faith
11. 586 - medley into >
12. Everything's Gone Green - medley into >
13. Temptation
14. Fine Time --
15. The Perfect Kiss
16. Blue Monday

---

LWTUA (optional)

I agree about Ceremony but it suited me to list as N.O. for my post.

I usually describe Ceremony as a Joy Division song but a New Order track.

"this is how it must be on a payroll company".

Actually, that would be a stormer live.

El Jarvo wrote:

CTB wrote: I should just let this go, but if you are interested to know the possible source of the Hooky animosity, consider the incessant name calling and disrespect to his former bandmates such as the classy putdowns of Gillian he has done in the press while simultaneously forging ahead with the law of diminishing returns of dignity that is The Light.

You better brace yourself then. I'm sure any war of words will ramp up astronomically in the near future as there'll be New Order books coming from both camps, presumably by the end of this year.

Let's face it, the bickering will help sell any future product and keep them firmly in the spotlight in the press.

I'd be more surprised if it didn't ramp up, but I predict the mudslinging will be coming more from one side, the side less likely to selling future 'product' in the form of new material...

Bringing this back on topic, I really like Face up, The Village, Leave me alone and Procession, would be very pleasantly surprised if any of these returned. Or Lonesome tonight.

Bringing this back on topic, I really like Face up, The Village, Leave me alone and Procession, would be very pleasantly surprised if any of these returned. Or Lonesome tonight

Great choices CTB

My dream setlist would be 1.Ceremony 2.Blue Monday 3.Mr. Disco 4.Sub-Culture 5.Paradise 6.Age of Consent 7.Dreams Never End 8.Denial 9.Leave Me Alone 10.Your Silent Face 11.Temptation 12.Everything's Gone Green 13.Lonesome Tonight 14.Turn 15.This Time of Night 16.The Perfect Kiss

Encore 17.Vanishing Point 18.Wilderness 19.Shadowplay 20.Love Will Tear us Apart

My dreams normally involve the use of Melanie C and a shower attachment. Dreams Never End with Steve on vocals. Liar, Procession and World with Melanie C on backing vocals. Pineapple Face. Wannabe (cover). Another newbie. Perfect Kiss. Love Reaction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFp15Wc4TzE I'll Stay With You. Pictures in my Mind. (PS Remember this thread? http://www.neworderonline.com/forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=33184)