Hey. I'm sure one of you many knowledgeable NO fans can help me out here.

Does anyone know what the minute, and more noticeable differences are, in the various versions of Perfect Kiss? (Not including remixes) Namely what edits were made in the sections. But if you know what sounds were cut or boosted that be greatly appreciated!

There's like a million different versions of a Perfect Kiss...can any of them be called definitive? The 12" not even the Substance remix is just about the only version of the song that sounds absolutely complete to me, but I imagine there was some indecision as to how to shorten the song when it came time to given the many versions.

I have 4 versions (album version, 12", Substance Edit, version that appeared on Singles which is curiously not the 7") And I'm going to try to find a good quality version of the UK 7" (promo I think??) and the US 7"

Thanks for your help!

Bonus Q: Did NO always make this many versions for their singles? Somehow only A Perfect Kiss stands out to me. I guess because the 12" inch and album version changes are so drastic.

well for starters, most of the mixes are listed here:

http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1706

the perfect kiss 4:48 v, cd, csthe perfect kiss (album edit) 4:10 vthe perfect kiss (7" edit) 4:23 vthe perfect kiss (12" extended) 8:46 v, cdthe perfect kiss (live bbc1) 10:05 v, cd the perfect kiss (live vid edit) 5:18 vthe perfect kiss (live retro) 9:43 cdthe perfect kiss (live video) 9:55 ldthe perfect kiss (substance) 8:02 v, cd, cs perfect pit 1:20 v, cs 

disregarding the live versions, and perfect pit.

the substance version is an edit of the 12"

the album version, and 7" edits are related but different.

the retro version is a different take of the video version, the video version, and video edit are related.

that's pretty much it. although there are few minor 7" edits also.

many of their major singles had many edits and remixes, see the previously mentioned list in that post.

later -1

Kiss of Death and Kiss of Death edit as well.

I think the 12" is the definitive version.

That version was edited down for Low Life and replaced 'Let's Go' on the album.

It was also edited down a little bit for the Substance CD due to running time constraints (CDs had to be no more than 74 minutes at the time).

There are a few 7" edits (Benelux, UK promos, US etc.)

I've always consider TPK as the song they never fucked with after its single release and the rape of it for Low=Life. Time edits really, nothing drastic.

Pyrtwist wrote: I've always consider TPK as the song they never fucked with after its single release and the rape of it for Low=Life. Time edits really, nothing drastic.

rape of it? really? i always thought the low-life version was the best representation of it, honestly "no bullshit" the extended version works well in a live version but that bass coming in straight off the bat was definitive for me the fact of low-life bein the version i'd heard first aside this still stands!

Mals Marola wrote:

Pyrtwist wrote: i always thought the low-life version was the best representation of it.

Couldn't agree less. Who needs edits when you've got the full length? Check TF. When I was young and a virgin I made a bunch of cassettes featuring my favorite take of every track and for TPK I chose Central London 6.12.85. Not the greatest sound quality of course, but it seemed the closest I could locate to feature all the different elements. It always wound me up that the official 12" loses the bass in the final verse. PS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u\_K2eCbJblA

Mals Marola wrote: rape of it? really? i always thought the low-life version was the best representation of it, honestly

I think you might be in a minority on this one Mals.

NotAMod wrote: £50 Note's Recycle blog has a pretty decent entry for TPK here.

Yep, and I would agree with £50 Note where he says

the version on Low-Life is much shorter and... starts to fade out just as the track is reaching its emotional peak.

Pyrtwist wrote: I've always consider TPK as the song they never fucked with after its single release and the rape of it for Low=Life. Time edits really, nothing drastic.

I agree with you in a way, but when the time edit happens to leave out one of the most climatic finishes on a record you do a little more than notice it.

Not that it isn't lovely without it. I'm pretty sure I heard the album version of Perfect Kiss first but I had a hard time looking back after hearing the 12"

That's why I call the lp version a rape. But as far as not fucking with the song, the edits of it do not compare to the reworks of Tempation, True faith, Blue Monday and most other singles. Same track just cut and pasted without adding to it. except the stero beginning on the lp version, that is kewl but not enough to justify the butchering.

Oh man, I never knew there was a longer version than what was on Substance. Anyway/place to hear it now? Absolutely one of my favorite songs still

LostSiren wrote: Oh man, I never knew there was a longer version than what was on Substance. Anyway/place to hear it now?

Besides the above mentioned 2cd reissue of Low Life?

Well there's the vinyl version of Substance which wasn't edited like the CD. Or you could buy the original 12" for a couple of quid from Discogs. Or

Debaser wrote:

Well there's the vinyl version of Substance which wasn't edited like the CD.

Don't think the full 12" version is on the Substance vinyl either, but will have to dig it out and check.

It's on the Low Life remastered reissue re done re thingy? Never bought that but may have to invest having learnt that

Oh, just played the Substance vinyl version of the 12" and it seems it is indeed the full 12" ? My mistake, sorry. Somehow i'd had got it in my head for years that it was the edited CD version.Wow, that's a revelation.Slightly gobsmacked to realise that after all these years. Around 47 seconds was chopped off for the Substance CD? So it's the same with the Substance vinyl version of Sub Culture and Shellshock too? Really quite confusing.

Ah, the versions of Sub Culture and Shellshock on the Substance vinyl are the same edited versions that are on the CD.So they put the full 12" version of Perfect Kiss on the Substance vinyl but only the edited Substance CD versions of Sub Culture and Shellshock, riiiiiiiight, i've got it now.I think.

As for the Low Life edit of Perfect Kiss, wellll.... as many others have said the full 8 minutes 49 seconds 12" probably wouldn't have sat that well on the album but still, they could have done a bit of a better job of the edit, yes.

There is also the 'edit' of the live rehearsal - which may, or may not, be the same performance as the video - that was on the Qwest promo 12"

Also, the Kiss Of Death is an alternate mix of the track.

I've been reworking some of the old tracks for my own amusement - taking them apart and rebuilding them using elements of the various mixes released at the time -, and TPK is - alongside TLU - the 1980's A side with the least variations and versions around. I've also done the same with Blue Monday, Confusion 1983, Bizarre Love Triangle, True Faith, Touched, Confusion 1987, Fine Time, Round & Round, Regret, Spooky, and am polishing off a version of World at the moment. I might give Shellshock, Subculture, and Thieves Like Us a try later.

For example, combining the 7" A+B, 12" A+B, the LP mix, of TPK/TKOD in some kind of coherent whole could sound like this :

http://www.mixcloud.com/mrmarkreed/perfect-x-full-length-re-edit/

Other mixes *may* be on mixcloud.

They are different takes, after close listening.

The Retro version has an echo on the fourth drum beat of the intro (around 1.11)

The US promo 12" does not have this echo on, and the section is not edited out. I cannot tell for sure as my promo 12" listening was from a home made MP3, however it is highly likely they are different performances, and very possibly on different dates as the acoustics seem different.

I can't say for definite that someone has, whilst editing the US 12", or preparing Retro, added or removed an echo to the drum, but it seems a waste of time and highly unlikely, tbh, especially given the slapdash nature of parts of Retro and the 2008 reissues.

The Low-life LP mix (also on the first - promo? - UK 7") is a slightly different mix from the 12", though. The full length version of this LP mix appears to be unreleased, though there is a longer edit (it fades out later) on a Canadian promo 12". The "Total" edit appears to be a newly done edit job - it seems to use the US 7" as a template, but it's not the same.

The US promo 12" is an edit of the full video soundtrack (which doesn't really match up with the actual video footage which may have been assembled from several takes - there is a bit where Bernard plays a different guitar part that can be heard, for instance). There is also a shorter video that uses the same 5:18 edit.

Now I'd like to hear the version on that Japanese 7" acetate that one or two people on this forum has...

indiearchivist wrote: The Low-life LP mix (also on the first - promo? - UK 7") is a slightly different mix from the 12", though. The full length version of this LP mix appears to be unreleased, though there is a longer edit (it fades out later) on a Canadian promo 12". The "Total" edit appears to be a newly done edit job - it seems to use the US 7" as a template, but it's not the same.

The US promo 12" is an edit of the full video soundtrack (which doesn't really match up with the actual video footage which may have been assembled from several takes - there is a bit where Bernard plays a different guitar part that can be heard, for instance). There is also a shorter video that uses the same 5:18 edit.

Now I'd like to hear the version on that Japanese 7" acetate that one or two people on this forum has...

They would tend to mix 7" mixes separately to 12" ones, so there wouldn't be a full length album version as such. That might also explain slight differences between them. Sometimes a master might have been originally in three parts later edited together rather than any one single take.

As for The Perfect Kiss video shoot, there were loads of different takes and partial takes, so it's very likely that the promo 12" would differ from the Retro one.

markreed wrote:

For example, combining the 7" A+B, 12" A+B, the LP mix, of TPK/TKOD in some kind of coherent whole could sound like this :

http://www.mixcloud.com/mrmarkreed/perfect-x-full-length-re-edit/

Any chance you could make this mix downloadable?

Debaser wrote:

LostSiren wrote: Oh man, I never knew there was a longer version than what was on Substance. Anyway/place to hear it now?

Besides the above mentioned 2cd reissue of Low Life?

Well there's the vinyl version of Substance which wasn't edited like the CD. Or you could buy the original 12" for a couple of quid from Discogs. Or

the full version is also on the substance cassette

May be of interest to some,Peter Hook talked a bit about the writing and recording of Perfect Kiss in his interview on the Radcliffe And Maconie show on BBC 6Music the other day.It apparently took 9 months to write, record,produce etc which i think i've read before somewhere but thought it was 9 weeks.9 weeks is relatively short really and 9 months is probably nearer the mark.I remember reading in Melody Maker (long defunct UK music mag/paper) in September 1984 that they had finally finished it. So they spent from January 1984 to September 1984 working on it i guess?

Go to 1 hour 35 minutes in for start of interview

Bill wrote: May be of interest to some,Peter Hook talked a bit about the writing and recording of Perfect Kiss in his interview on the Radcliffe And Maconie show on BBC 6Music the other day.It apparently took 9 months to write, record,produce etc which i think i've read before somewhere but thought it was 9 weeks.9 weeks is relatively short really and 9 months is probably nearer the mark.I remember reading in Melody Maker (long defunct UK music mag/paper) in September 1984 that they had finally finished it. So they spent from January 1984 to September 1984 working on it i guess?

Go to 1 hour 35 minutes in for start of interview

Hook was funnier in the first 15 sec. of his interview than the other guy was in the hour plus he was on.

Anyway, thanks for this! Love hearing how these guys realised their visions.

from the first live performance to the finished release was several months and went through some variations. "I've Got A Cock The Size Of The M1" for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6jG4Phsiuc

The Full Length The Perfect Kiss is the quintessential New Order track and it's video tells you all you need to know about the band in Factory era.