Hooky on the new album

I hadn't spotted this until now, apologies if its already been posted, from Hooky's blog in July: here's the link too: http://www.peterhook.co.uk/#/blogs/hookys-blog

"A lot of people have been asking what I feel about the New Record. Apart from the lousy titles it hasn’t had much impact, to be honest. I do not think the band has any validity at all now.

As I keep saying… !t may be called New Order but it is not New Order. It is definitely more Bad Lieutenant. In fact, a lot of the tracks on this record were destined for the 2nd Bad Lieutenant album (canned because of the lack of success). I must say that writing and finishing any album is something definitely to be proud of. I just wish the circumstances suited its release. It is funny seeing all the bullshit that’s surrounds the release. That is definitely something that I am not used to. Our last record was released in 2005 and while I witnessed it surrounding their gigs and so called reformation, this is a lot different.

It does make me wonder who they are trying to convince…themselves?…or you?

It is your money that keeps them going. In the same way it keeps me going. I suppose the difference is I am not pretending to be something I’m not. Writing the New Order book and going over everything in such detail has shown me many things I wasn’t really aware of. One thing it has definitely shown me is that New Order weren’t just a group…it was, in some ways, more an attitude. An attitude we brought with us from Joy Division and Punk. An attitude and celebration of a time that was very special. Embodied in Factory, The Hacienda and Manchester.

An anarchic, selfish way of looking at this crazy, bullshit business, that made it special, bearable and our own.

We did everything we could to try and change the system for the better, for everyone, and almost succeeded. At times, it made life very difficult for us. But the music and that attitude kept us going. Playing the gigs, ignoring Joy Division, at last winning the audiences approval and building a following, soon showed us we were doing something right.

Unfortunately when Factory went bust we knew things would change and slowly they did. After never having a single on an album, Republic, on London Records had four, the interminable remixing of the songs further diluting the core of the music and the principles. Then the videos etc etc.,

We changed too. In my opinion that’s when New Order finished as an attitude and way of life. We became just another group doing what every other group does. Once Rob passed it was buried with him.

Now they are just another group without the right line up, desperately trying to prove to you that they still have some value. That they still deserve your money and respect…take it from me…they don’t. Amazingly they have even conned Daniel Miller at Mute too.

My legal fight over the unauthorised use of the name is still ongoing. I will get Justice soon.

Until then recognise this for exactly what it is.

I can remember doing the promo for ‘Waiting for The siren’s Call’ and having to pretend everything was great with the group. Pretending we were all together and happy with the release. Like some new actress joining ‘Emmerdale’ or ‘Coronation Street’ all that ‘Were all one big happy family’ bollocks. Even though certain members were hardly on it. But I supposed we were used to doing that.

Credit it where it’s due though, as I said before making an LP, especially a New Order LP takes you through 7 kinds of hell at least. So completing it is a great achievement and I am positive that Barney will have worked very, very hard indeed on trying to make this one, the one that proves he doesn’t need me. I hear he has said there are two songs about me on it?

WOW! I’m flattered!

Although it makes him sound (especially after all this time) like a spurned lover….a bit creepy.

I suppose I, like you, will have to wait to pass final judgement. I hope he doesn’t succeed…I really do. New Order were very special, it started when that three piece appeared at The Beach Club and with that same three piece hardly changing all the way up to Technique, the magic was still there even then".

Laughably selective memory. Low-life featured two singles; Brotherhood had one (two on the CD release); Technique three. All before Republic's four. All on Factory.

And I think we all recognise who's sounding like a spurned lover.

And I'm certain talk of this legal battle over the band name will fizzle out soon. He's been on about it for y e a r s . . . (and Mute will have more capable solicitors in the extremely unlikely event it ever progresses).

Sad individual.

Yikes. Does he put that much stock in the trolls that say New Order are shit without him on youtube and facebook? I feel like people have been trolling New Order since Ian Curtis was put fresh in the grave. Sure, Bernard's propped up some bad tunes in the last decade (or more), but he's also been the principal songwriter since PCL. And if you look at the trajectory of the group, New Order are almost always at their best when Stephen and Bernard are in fruitful collaboration. That's kind of the unspoken dynamic in this group: the bass & drums core of Joy Division was slowly eschewed in favor of a role blurring electronic - acoustic tapestry, and that yielded much of what is musically enduring about New Order. Even if some of these new songs were originally slated for BL 2, who cares? Unless you are a punk band a song usually goes through a long process of maturation, especially with a group that's been around as long as New Order. If they reworked song ideas to recast them as New Order, that's great if the songs turn out memorable and well crafted. Hooky is right about one thing: there is a brand to support, and if that means Bernard (and Stephen, Gillian, Phil, and Tom) have worked doubly hard to prove themselves, then the fans will get a more than decent record.

blunt laser wrote: New Order weren’t just a group…it was, in some ways, more an attitude. An attitude we brought with us from Joy Division and Punk. An attitude and celebration of a time that was very special. Embodied in Factory, The Hacienda and Manchester.

blunt laser wrote: We did everything we could to try and change the system for the better, for everyone, and almost succeeded. At times, it made life very difficult for us. But the music and that attitude kept us going. Playing the gigs, ignoring Joy Division, at last winning the audiences approval and building a following, soon showed us we were doing something right.

Unfortunately when Factory went bust we knew things would change and slowly they did. After never having a single on an album, Republic, on London Records had four, the interminable remixing of the songs further diluting the core of the music and the principles. Then the videos etc etc.,

We changed too. In my opinion that’s when New Order finished as an attitude and way of life. We became just another group doing what every other group does. Once Rob passed it was buried with him.

My first contact with New Order started because the music - I didn't know anything about the attitude first. I just hear the songs on the radio, then I searched for the records in the shops... the last stage was to know everything I needed (or wanted) to know about the people behind the music, their ideas and their attitude. Yes, the attitude became music more brilliant, but I was already hooked on the band's sound at that point. So, the music is what really matters to me. And it seems that reformed New Order still produces good and fresh music.

Hooky seems to ignore the music. He thinks New Order only as "concept" or a way to do (or not to do) things (in music industry) and that concept would have died from a determined point. I respect his opinion but if I didn't know anything about Joy Division, Factory, Haçienda, etc, even so I would love Blue Monday, TPK, Low Life, Technique... and now Restless.

Another point is: people get older and change their minds. Rebels at youth; family men at middle-aged. It's quite odd a 60 years old man having the same mind and ideas like a young punk rocker. Nothing wrong to play the greatest hits to big audiences. It's not a crime to make money. After all, for what you spent years of your life writing successful singles and albums?

He can feel what he wants, and despite everything that's gone on at least he continues to not tear apart what New Order did for its first 10 years (except for the continuing weird exclusion of Gillian, which must be related to the lawsuit and use of the New Order name). Anyway, a bit of a tangent. I listened to the two Monaco albums on the way to work this morning and they're not classics like Technique or anything, but they were creative and have some really good moments. I wonder why he doesn't make an effort to do something new again (but dear God, no more Freebass). We will all know soon enough if New Order without him is a pale form of its old self (Restless is a very middling tune for me), but better to keep going forward than looking back.

What an utterly deluded, childish cunt. The amount of times I've felt like slapping him over the years with his bitchy comments. What's rich is he plays the victim card when the shoe's on the other foot.

I remember him saying years ago "oh if only you knew the real reason we split up etc etc." He was then asked to tell all, and he declined.

Dickhead.

So following his logic:

Jack has left Peter Hook and the light - they must change their name surely?

Man United have sold De Maria - they can no long be called Man United !

I leave my place of work - it must rebrand itself ?

How lame !!!!!

any new material from the light --- err no not until the NEW ORDER LP is released !

Roger Waters (one person could not keep the name Pink Floyd) Legal precedent - use this Barney

Bobby Chalton can't call himself Man United

What a joke

NU ORDAH

R0CKET M1CK wrote: any new material from the light --- err no not until the NEW ORDER LP is released !

Roger Waters (one person could not keep the name Pink Floyd) Legal precedent - use this Barney

Bobby Chalton can't call himself Man United

What a joke

NU ORDAH

Who is this? Tribute Rocket Mick😕

Rocket Mick wrote:

R0CKET M1CK wrote: any new material from the light --- err no not until the NEW ORDER LP is released !

Roger Waters (one person could not keep the name Pink Floyd) Legal precedent - use this Barney

Bobby Chalton can't call himself Man United

What a joke

NU ORDAH

Who is this? Tribute Rocket Mick😕

A Digital Mick sent from the future. He's incredibly lifelike.

Yeah, Hooky. Put your money where your mouth is. Dont forget to book your 30th Anniversary Tour of "Music Complete" for 2045.

Firstly, complete fucking hypocrisy. He carried on when Ian died, and Gillian left. Now, when he leaves, it isn't New Order anymore? Bullshit.

Secondly, he's the spurned lover, using every interview to proclaim "IF I CAN'T HAVE NEW ORDER NOBODY CAN!" like a jealous drunk whose wife finally tired of him and moved on.

You can take plenty of his statements abut "New Odour" and apply them to himself.

I wish him and The Light success, but The Light are a travelling musical museum, and tribute-band-to-himself, and until he puts his money where his mouth is, and stands behind some *NEW* material, he's desperately trying to convince us of his own current value. (Freebass? Jeez. I wish I'd been paid just to hear it.)

I could write loads more, but i can't be arsed. However, if he has a legal team, they probably should ban him from spouting such vitriol on the internet and to interviewers : I can imagine it just thickens the evidence pile at New Order Corp of examples of defamatory statements intended to vexatiously damage their ability to trade.

Another rant from Hooky's blog:

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:29:12

It seems there is a God!

The so called ‘New Odour Single’ is crap. Thank you my higher power!

Well it’s not crap, it’s just OK…which will do me. I must admit it was a very strange moment getting ready to listen to it. But I did and it sounds exactly like I thought it would…a Barney Sumner solo record. He truly is in control. Chorus is quite catchy but it is not as good as any other Single we ever recorded…Oh! Apart from ‘Jetstream’ … another Barney Sumner solo singleJ

I am delighted.

It is soulless and Barney even manages to sound bored while he sings it (should be called ‘Care less’ …cos it sounds like he doesn’t). The bass is relegated to a backing role, just how he likes it, in fact everything is in a backing role. The drums start off well but the complicated pattern is distracting. The whole song seems programmed to within an inch of it’s life (I bet that computer was red hot)…I bet it was re-programmed for weeks or months even, with everyone kept waiting until had every possible overdub had been exhausted, driving everyone mad in the process. It’s a bit lifeless, much like the group.

I feel sorry for the fans… waiting 10 years for some material with our name on it and getting presented with this? It really feels to me like just going through the motions (exactly why I split the group up in 2007). ‘The Emperor’s new clothes’ springs to mind.

Now the poor bastards have to do the promotion and pretend how much they enjoyed making it and how fulfilling it was etc etc., how everyone was fully involved blah blah blah…how were all getting on great, so much better than before. It’s like them soap actresses that appear on Lorraine and the first thing they say is, ‘Oh yeh! We’re just one big happy family on the set.’

Oh the deceit, just like we did on ‘Get Ready’ and ‘Siren’s’… god forgive me. I must admit that is one thing I don’t miss is the lying, the pretence, the myth/pantomime that all group’s peddle.

I was reading his MOJO Interview, which I will answer for you soon. I am sick and tired of that bastard lying about what happened with the Hacienda Name, I really am. The guy is a fucking moron as well as a liar (allegedly;) it’s time you knew the truth and I will write to MOJO and provide the proof.

My wife keeps telling me off, telling me to stop, to focus on how much I enjoy what I do now and not take any notice of the others. I know she’s right. But until the case is settled I cannot let up, not until justice is done. What they did to me is disgusting, stealing what was rightly mine from behind my back while I was in tour in China without ANY involvement with me, and expecting me to just lump it. NO CHANCE! After 31 years blood sweat and tears. What would you do?

Using the excuse of me playing Joy Division and taking The Hacienda name as justification to you, the fans, that they were right to come back as New Order without me. This is simply not true.

As I said before Bad Lieutenant were playing both Joy Division and New Order songs long before I did, and the Hacienda name was bought by Rob Gretton in 1997 at a public auction held by The Liquidator after The Hac went bankrupt. I get sick of repeating it, sometimes it feels like an ant kicking an elephant…but I’ll keep kicking until you all see sense.

They should be boycotted by every New Order Fan…they do not deserve your support. They are Thieves…’Thieves like them’ hee hee;)

Jozek wrote: My wife keeps telling me off, telling me to stop, to focus on how much I enjoy what I do now and not take any notice of the others. I know she’s right.

"My wife essentially wants me to stop being a twat and be an old man. I'm unable to do this and want to make this as bloody and terribly unnecessary as possible. I want the first result in Google to be about how the band is no more and I'm not in it. I want it to new fans just discovering New Order will be so distracted by the legal mess they won't be able to look past it, and instead won't read about the amazing gigs in the 80s and our amazing music, and instead, read about petty old men squabbling."

smh.

Jozek wrote: Another rant from Hooky's blog:

Tue, 11 Aug 2015 11:29:12

It seems there is a God!

The so called ‘New Odour Single’ is crap. Thank you my higher power!

Well it’s not crap, it’s just OK…which will do me. I must admit it was a very strange moment getting ready to listen to it. But I did and it sounds exactly like I thought it would…a Barney Sumner solo record. He truly is in control. Chorus is quite catchy but it is not as good as any other Single we ever recorded…Oh! Apart from ‘Jetstream’ … another Barney Sumner solo singleJ

I am delighted.

It is soulless and Barney even manages to sound bored while he sings it (should be called ‘Care less’ …cos it sounds like he doesn’t). The bass is relegated to a backing role, just how he likes it, in fact everything is in a backing role. The drums start off well but the complicated pattern is distracting. The whole song seems programmed to within an inch of it’s life (I bet that computer was red hot)…I bet it was re-programmed for weeks or months even, with everyone kept waiting until had every possible overdub had been exhausted, driving everyone mad in the process. It’s a bit lifeless, much like the group.

I feel sorry for the fans… waiting 10 years for some material with our name on it and getting presented with this? It really feels to me like just going through the motions (exactly why I split the group up in 2007). ‘The Emperor’s new clothes’ springs to mind.

Now the poor bastards have to do the promotion and pretend how much they enjoyed making it and how fulfilling it was etc etc., how everyone was fully involved blah blah blah…how were all getting on great, so much better than before. It’s like them soap actresses that appear on Lorraine and the first thing they say is, ‘Oh yeh! We’re just one big happy family on the set.’

Oh the deceit, just like we did on ‘Get Ready’ and ‘Siren’s’… god forgive me. I must admit that is one thing I don’t miss is the lying, the pretence, the myth/pantomime that all group’s peddle.

I was reading his MOJO Interview, which I will answer for you soon. I am sick and tired of that bastard lying about what happened with the Hacienda Name, I really am. The guy is a fucking moron as well as a liar (allegedly;) it’s time you knew the truth and I will write to MOJO and provide the proof.

My wife keeps telling me off, telling me to stop, to focus on how much I enjoy what I do now and not take any notice of the others. I know she’s right. But until the case is settled I cannot let up, not until justice is done. What they did to me is disgusting, stealing what was rightly mine from behind my back while I was in tour in China without ANY involvement with me, and expecting me to just lump it. NO CHANCE! After 31 years blood sweat and tears. What would you do?

Using the excuse of me playing Joy Division and taking The Hacienda name as justification to you, the fans, that they were right to come back as New Order without me. This is simply not true.

As I said before Bad Lieutenant were playing both Joy Division and New Order songs long before I did, and the Hacienda name was bought by Rob Gretton in 1997 at a public auction held by The Liquidator after The Hac went bankrupt. I get sick of repeating it, sometimes it feels like an ant kicking an elephant…but I’ll keep kicking until you all see sense.

They should be boycotted by every New Order Fan…they do not deserve your support. They are Thieves…’Thieves like them’ hee hee;)

LOL

If you read the comments from people on the New Order Restless Youtube audio video, you will see that the response to Restless is overwhelmingly positive. They are some nasayers, but most seem to dig the track.

Also, the synth work, strings, and guitars in the song are intricate and nicely arranged. Steve's drumming is jazzy and intricate. Nice tune.

Hooky needs to listen to his wife. You quit the band, Hooky. Just move on and play the music that makes you happy. I saw the Closer show a few years ago here in NYC (Jack was even kind enough to put me on the guest list so I could give a fair criticism of the Light) and I did enjoy it, though not as much as I did the 2012-2013 New Order gigs.

This is sad to read, it really is. He is obsessed. A jealous ex lover. It's sad.

Of course, what do I know? I LOVED Jetstream.

J-E-T

This is eating Hooky up big time and for all concerned I wish he would just "let it go".

Hooky, fuck up.

You. Left. The. Band.

Get over it, sunshine. You really have become an utter cunt, and it's a shame as you're still one of my musical heroes.

Wow - he's really all over the place here. I think he needs to get some help, and quickly.

Not sure how useful it is to his legal case by calling them 'thieves', a 'lying bastard' and a 'fucking moron' in a published blog. He's welcome to an opinion, but it really is just his opinion, and as he left the band, it's no more valid than my own. In fact, less so - after listening to his solo/side project output, I trust my ears over Hooky's on what sounds good and what doesn't. (Big hint: Freebass was really not good)

Hooky - you were the first of the NO side projects to play both NO and JD tracks live, you did both DNE and Failures with Revenge. Electronic never did either JD or NO, and the OT never performed live. Your argument is weak. The rest of what you have to say is character assassination or incoherent rambling that often contradicts itself. Get help and for goodness sake, get yourself a press agent, or at least someone to proofread your blog before you publish.

Ugh

Jozek wrote:

Oh the deceit, just like we did on ‘Get Ready’ and ‘Siren’s’… god forgive me. I must admit that is one thing I don’t miss is the lying, the pretence, the myth/pantomime that all group’s peddle.

It's obvious he still would like to be in the group, he's the creepy jealous ex lover. Hooky, it was your decision to leave, admit to yourself what a bad decision it was, musically and financially. Everything he moans about, he writes in his blogs, it's all about not coming to terms that HE made this false decision, not Barney, Steve or Gillian. It's like quitting your job and and then complaining about why the company is not going under without you, as you were the most important associate, of course - in your opinion.

I wished they didn't fight or argue about everything, it makes me so sad, they made so much good music together and wished that they continued doing this. All of this fighting ruins it especially with the release of the new album coming out.

The guy needs to think about what all this childish bitching and anger is doing to his health.

"The drums are too complicated!" "The singer sounds bored!" "The album took too long!" "I can't keep my VCR from flashing 12:00!" "It's too cold in here!"

He is regretting every single moment of leaving.

Reminds me of a mate who left his missus for the greener side of the fence, only to change his mind when his ex began to date a VERY rich man and his own new relationship broke down within a year or so. This new man absolutely doted on her and treated her well (he still does all these years later), but my mate is now convinced that he stole her off him with his money - that they had been seeing each other before he dumped her.

This is blatantly untrue because the girl was in bits at the time and only met this bloke much later on. In truth, my mate was an absolute shit to her and has now revised history in order to save face.

Hook is doing the same thing. Every drop of bitter poison that spews off his ugly tongue convicts him of his envy and will do nothing in the long run except to make him ill (as said above).

Get Ready wrote: He is regretting every single moment of leaving.

Reminds me of a mate who left his missus for the greener side of the fence, only to change his mind when his ex began to date a VERY rich man and his own new relationship broke down within a year or so. This new man absolutely doted on her and treated her well (he still does all these years later), but my mate is now convinced that he stole her off him with his money - that they had been seeing each other before he dumped her.

This is blatantly untrue because the girl was in bits at the time and only met this bloke much later on. In truth, my mate was an absolute shit to her and has now revised history in order to save face.

Hook is doing the same thing. Every drop of bitter poison that spews off his ugly tongue convicts him of his envy and will do nothing in the long run except to make him ill (as said above).

I agree. and the sad part is every one of these outbursts pushes back the timeline for ever reconciling, if it still exists. I long held out hope that if he came to his senses and apologized the others would meet him halfway. Now I don't think that's ever happening.

To adapt an old Chinese proverb (Mark Twain actually), It's better to keep your big mouth shut and appear a twot than to open it and remove all doubt. Mind you, what did you expect? That he'd maintain his usual dignified silence or be jolly nice about it? At least he's found one nice thing to say about Bernard, which is eight more than usual. I agree that the music was (is) the most important thing. There was so much going on around NO - the Hassie, Dry Bar, Factory, Tony Wilson, Peter Saville, collaborations etc - quite honestly I always wished they'd just shut up about it and make Technique 2. Yes, the no-singles-off-albums line went out the window 30 years ago. And given the paltry number of tracks per album, the single output was a fairly high percentage. Hardly The White Album. A lot of the hype around the band isn't borne out historically, notably the idea of ALWAYS doing live-but-shite TOTP performances that did chart placings more harm than good. It sounds awesome but is only true for BM. He has a point about it going pear-shaped circa Republic. However at the time he insisted to both NME and John Peel that Hague'd turned it into a classic NO LP... And if he felt that bad about it all, why not get off yer fat arse and make new music instead of cashing royalty cheques and boning Mrs Merton? As for new material - I'd love a Light album because they kick serious butt, but I can't see it happening. Hooky loves touring and he was never the greatest singer-songwriter. Revenge, anyone? PS Why the Freebass hatred? The EP was awful but the album was fine for me - on a par with Monaco 2 and far better than the laughable One True Passion. PPS Melanie C.

these latest posts from hooky just cross the line for me --- growing up, he was easily the most influential artist that i followed, i even learned to play bass and loaded up the chorus effects and slung the guitar low when playing live, raced out to get an NME or whatnot to read any new order interview curious what he would say ----

but this is really the last straw. i sort of understood the past few years remarks, knew he was hurtin, knew he might just be lashing out like anyone might --- even went to see him in boston a few years ago, and it was a great show

but enough is enough for fucks sake

i really have no respect for him anymore. i won't go see him play again. i won't buy his next book, which will be difficult, because i enjoyed his last two.

his behavior is worse now that he is sober than when he was all loaded

it is just sad.

I could maybe support his comments about how New Order lost something when Factory folded and Rob Gretton died, but his 'none more punk than me' comments come across as bollocks in the light of the fact that all he's done in the last 10 years is try to repackage nostalgia at whatever the cost without giving a monkeys about anything that might resemble 'artistic integrity'

If he'd just quit the band and disappeared in silent dignity, rather than buying up odds and sods from the Hacienda and trying to flog them at ridiculously over inflated prices to purveyors of crap, doing his crappy DJ turns at every dodgy Indie disco that will fling a few bob his way (and getting caught in the act pretend DJing too) and doing show after show of cover versions for years on end without recording anything original, then he might have a point, as it is, he's becoming more of a sad echo of a once valid musical artiste with each of these interviews that are published.

Bill Wyman quit the Rolling Stones, and has got on with his life since, he hasn't spent the last 25 years crowing away everytime Mick Jagger or Keith Richards do something, time for Peter to either fade into obscurity, or release something new, vital and interesting that will show people he still has something worth listening to other than 'Bernard is a cunt' I am not expecting the new N.O. album to re-invent the wheel or have people buying it in droves, but at least they will be new songs, regardless of whether some of them were written with the intention of being released as Bad Lieutenant.

Ooof that blog post is dreadful. Can it get any worse? His spite and vitriol has turned him into a caricature. It's like he's drinking from the same water as Courtney Love and Donald Trump. How low can you go indeed :-(

New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Gillian played on Get Ready. She didn't participate in the ensuing tour because she had to take care of one of her daughters, who was ill.

In 2008-2009, Hooky saw fit to say nasty things about Gillian in the press (including downplaying her musical role in New Order) while she was battling breast cancer.

Pretty low.

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Phil was five years old when New Order was formed.

ZASmusic wrote:

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Gillian played on Get Ready. She didn't participate in the ensuing tour because she had to take care of one of her daughters, who was ill.

In 2008-2009, Hooky saw fit to say nasty things about Gillian in the press (including downplaying her musical role in New Order) while she was battling breast cancer.

Pretty low.

Saying anything about a person taking personal time to deal with cancer, or to have the most thankless job in the world - being a good parent - is horrid.

I would say something pithy about Peter Hook being a dad, but I saw his son Jack playing as part of the current Smashing Pumpkins lineup, and I must say - Jack did an excellent job.

i've just realised the thing that annoys me the most is him criticising Steve's drums in Restless. What the fuck does he know!!? I happen to think they're Steve's best drums for a while, probably because this time he had more control over it. Also he didn't have Hooky in the background "ooh they're a bit jazzy steve.."

Andy wrote:

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Phil was five years old when New Order was formed.

Wasn't Phil on the 91 electronic tour? That would make him 15 by your dates.

is it bro wrote:

Andy wrote:

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Phil was five years old when New Order was formed.

Wasn't Phil on the 91 electronic tour? That would make him 15 by your dates.

I'm not the one suggesting Phil toured with Electronic two years before Marion formed...

Andy wrote:

is it bro wrote:

Andy wrote:

Fractured wrote: New Order is a legal/business entity as well as a band.

The issue is whether or not all parties are acting within the law and fairly within the terms to which they agreed.

Also, as to Gillian leaving the band, the trio existed before she joined, so the Get Ready-era lineup was, in some ways, a return to its roots.

Phil was five years old when New Order was formed.

Wasn't Phil on the 91 electronic tour? That would make him 15 by your dates.

I'm not the one suggesting Phil toured with Electronic two years before Marion formed...

Phil played with Electronic in 1998 I believe. He was referred by Johnny Marr.

Jo Whiley Show

Linus Solanki wrote: I wished they didn't fight or argue about everything, it makes me so sad, they made so much good music together and wished that they continued doing this. All of this fighting ruins it especially with the release of the new album coming out.

This.

I mean, fair enough that Hooky has a legal beef with the rest of the band, it's not for me to judge that, but why can't he just crack on with it without all this? There is literally no benefit for him to keep venting like this. None at all. He's getting really good attendance for his retro nights, whatever some people on here may think about them, so why keep being the poked bear?

Johnny James wrote: Jo Whiley Show

Really like the jacket that Bernard is wearing in this performance. They sound good..though Electronic becoming a Brit-pop band never felt right to me.

Jesus Christ, it's beyond embarrassing now. Does he not have a publicist? Or someone to tell him not to keep coming out with this stuff?

Every time he cracks his hilarious 'New Odour' gag...yet again, drone on about the Hacienda...yet again and tell the anecdote...yet again...about how he lost money on every 12" blah blah. He's in danger of overtaking Paul McCartney with his 'Yesterday' anecdote with the scrambled eggs.

He unilaterally decided to split New Order up mistakenly thinking he was the the main attraction. Turns out he overplayed his hand.

It will be interesting to see what Hooky does once his JD/NO tribute band hits the 'Republic' era. Having slagged everything post Technique off, I assume Hooky will do the decent thing and put it to bed. And STFU. Maybe start touring the Freebass back catalogue.

PS Why the Freebass hatred? The EP was awful but the album was fine for me - on a par with Monaco 2 and far better than the laughable One True Passion. PPS Melanie C.

I'm a m a s s i v e New Order fan, and a regular visitor to this forum, but honestly had no idea Freebass even had a single release, let alone got as far as releasing a whole album. Honestly news to me. Was any of it actually any cop?

I'm normally the first to whinge about NO and Hooky in particular, but I enjoyed the Freebass album - urinates over the throwaway One True Passion and the massively overrated Other Two (2 albums in 24 years and they're both shit). The EP was an embarrassment though.

Loved the Freebass EP (at least the tracks featuring Tim Burgess and Pete Wylie on vocals), but wasn't that keen on the Freebass album. I guess if you like the guy singing (Gary Briggs, the Haven vocalist), then it *may* be alright, but even the instrumentals (included with the 2xCD version) didn't set my world on fire...

Just one person's opinion, mind (others like it), but I'd try and listen to some of the songs on YouTube first...

😎

Freebass stuff - almost all of it, except 'You don't know about me' - is dire. Easily the weakest of all the side project material; even worse than Revenge, which was a low ebb until Freebass came out. Uninspiringly dull, and that's guy's high, wavering voice really irritates after 2 or three songs.

What a right cunt he is being. Jesus!

I would love to see his face when he's checking out the chart positions. God let it be No1!!

Hooky, I've bought the deluxe box set and me and the wife have got tickets for Glasgow, Couldn't be happier. You won't be getting another penny out me.

I know this is a bit uncalled-for...and Hookys an okay guy, sometimes.....but I cant resist...

Apologies to Mr. Merton.

http://dropshots.com/see-yetan/date/2015-08-18/03:17:48

Does it even matter how the album sounds, as it pertains to Hooky? He knew he would hate it before he heard a single note.

Not in the slightest, no.

And, yes, we did.

I only come on this thread to assess the mood - I have long since given up on my longtime bass hero.

Enough said.

Hooky leaving New Order was the right thing to do. The band would no longer be functioning with him there anyway, based on his sentiments.

What's frustrating for me is that he is trying to make it difficult for New Order (and their fans) to move on. They don't appear to be hindering him in his endeavors. He quickly needs to come to the realization that this will only continue to cast him in a bad Light.

JG wrote: One thing the imminent release of Music Complete has brought into sharp focus is that New Order have a future, while Hooky doesn't.

Au contraire...

Coops wrote:

JG wrote: One thing the imminent release of Music Complete has brought into sharp focus is that New Order have a future, while Hooky doesn't.

Au contraire...

They are not New Order without Hooky. Just Bernard's band.

New single sounds like New Order to me, Julio... not sure what you are listening to.

A few things -

All of it is really sad.

Does anyone know if there actually is a lawsuit? Is there a way to look this up?

There is one Freebass track I like, and I can't remember which one. I will go find it.

Bernard looks damn good in that vid.

The Hooky stuff is really sad...

I really don't care what Hooky think about the new NO album. I gave up reading all the ITWs he did for 4 or 5 years. It's always the same jealousy. He should go in hell!

Peter and Roger might work well together. Lots of pent-up anger, but i would hope for mellowness as well . they are both fine singers and songwriters , one is a most interesting bassist. Peter will keep working , i hope so .

keepitcoming wrote: Peter and Roger might work well together......

currently awaiting PINK LIGHT's debut release - Another Hook On The Wall

keepitcoming wrote: Peter and Roger might work well together. Lots of pent-up anger, but i would hope for mellowness as well . they are both fine singers and songwriters , one is a most interesting bassist. Peter will keep working , i hope so .

Roger Waters can write new music. New Order's former bassist? Not so much.

My Playlists songs for solo hook includes maybe a dozen or so revenge and Monaco songs , whereas roger' s playlist , even with some wall and final cut songs is fewer than ten, the only song after pf is the nice Jeff beck intro to amused to death. The 14 twisted tenderness songs offer more listening pleasure than both hook and waters combined

I meant solo career for roger , I loved the guy , he led the band wonderfully , But the dark side of the hook is in a lonely place. I hope pink light stays together for a tour and nobody meddles. And forgive me for two posts in a row , I hope it is not illegal

We should have another rant soon. he ca't help himself

As I understood it, Gillian left due to the illness of her daughter and did not return due toc ancer. To criticise her for that is immoral.

Phil C was in Electronic's 1998-1999 lineup and was chosen by Johnny, and then joined New Order around 2000 so, for a brief period, the band may have been a five piece with Phil and Gillian. Then Gillian left.

Hooky's been reminding me of the abusive husband who threatened his wife with leaving her too many times, and told her "You'll never cope without me!". When he left, he may have expected her to capitulate competely and beg him to return. Which didn't happen. Now he's the guy who's found his ex- has somebody new, whilst yelling at strangers that "SHE'S MINE!". These blog posts are actually embarrassing, and actually cost him in terms of reputation and how he is percieved by some of his most once-loyal constituents.

No one can deny The Light are a great night out and a good live prospect. But every year Hook performs his nostalgia museum is a year I don't get a new record by a quite talented but furious bass player. He got beaten to the punch here, and it's not as if New Order rushed it : Hook could've come out with a Light album anytime in the past five years... and totally stolen New Order's thunder in the 'new album' stakes.

Can't wait to here the new material

markreed wrote: As I understood it, Gillian left due to the illness of her daughter and did not return due toc ancer. To criticise her for that is immoral.

Phil C was in Electronic's 1998-1999 lineup and was chosen by Johnny, and then joined New Order around 2000 so, for a brief period, the band may have been a five piece with Phil and Gillian. Then Gillian left.

Hooky's been reminding me of the abusive husband who threatened his wife with leaving her too many times, and told her "You'll never cope without me!". When he left, he may have expected her to capitulate competely and beg him to return. Which didn't happen. Now he's the guy who's found his ex- has somebody new, whilst yelling at strangers that "SHE'S MINE!". These blog posts are actually embarrassing, and actually cost him in terms of reputation and how he is percieved by some of his most once-loyal constituents.

No one can deny The Light are a great night out and a good live prospect. But every year Hook performs his nostalgia museum is a year I don't get a new record by a quite talented but furious bass player. He got beaten to the punch here, and it's not as if New Order rushed it : Hook could've come out with a Light album anytime in the past five years... and totally stolen New Order's thunder in the 'new album' stakes.

There is an update on Hooky's blog here: http://www.peterhook.co.uk/#/blogs/hookys-blog

The bass is relegated to a backing role, just how he likes it, in fact everything is in a backing role.

I know 'Restless' is not the strongest song on the album, but how can he get the impression that everything/everyone but Bernard is in a backing role?

The whole song seems programmed to within an inch of it’s life

His ears must be different from mine; Restless doesn't sound programmed at all.

I feel sorry for the fans… waiting 10 years for some material with our name on it and getting presented with this?

There are quite a few fans (and even critics and reviewers) who enjoy the album, generally speaking. Has Hooky written any new material (besides Freebass)? I don't think so. All he's done for the past 7 or 8 years are JD/NO album gigs, DJing (or what appears to be it), talking about the Hacienda, Joy Division, and New Order's past. If Hooky can write new material (preferably an album) and get better reviews/opinions than Music Complete, then he has a point. But until then, he should keep his mouth shut.

The guy is a fucking moron as well as a liar (allegedly;) it’s time you knew the truth and I will write to MOJO and provide the proof.

It's not classy to insult people in public like that. In this blog post he said he'll write to Mojo, and the newest blog post (posted in that other thread) shows that letter, but how could he think Mojo would bother to publish that drivel?

My wife keeps telling me off, telling me to stop, to focus on how much I enjoy what I do now and not take any notice of the others.

His wife seems to have more sense than him.

They should be boycotted by every New Order Fan…they do not deserve your support. They are Thieves…’Thieves like them’ hee hee;)

He has no right to tell fans what they should think about the new New Order. Let us fans decide for ourselves if they are New Order or not, and if they are worth supporting.

I do worry that on days like today Hooky must be just that little bit closer to a heart attack.

I’m guessing that sooner or later there will be stems doing the rounds of the remixers for various tracks.

Who would put money on these leaking to Hooky and him whacking a load of “trademark” basslines over the top?

As much as this feud is painful to witness – that would be a genuine stroke of wind-up genius!

I disagree; it would be absolutely fucking pathetic.

So don't rule it out.

"1st class ticket with a 3rd rate view."

It will be interesting to see how he spins it (if he chooses to, although I sense he won't be able to resist) but I suspect his heart will have sank by the quality of it. I guess one approach will be that he says it doesn't 'sound like New Order' in places, as some tracks are a departure.

I worry a bit for his mental state after this one - and he has been caught totally wrong footed after his comments on Restless.

Papabendi wrote: It will be interesting to see how he spins it (if he chooses to, although I sense he won't be able to resist) but I suspect his heart will have sank by the quality of it. I guess one approach will be that he says it doesn't 'sound like New Order' in places, as some tracks are a departure.

I worry a bit for his mental state after this one - and he has been caught totally wrong footed after his comments on Restless.

It must be a challenge for him. I see him quite regularly around Alderley Edge as he lives close to the village centre whereas Bernard is a short car drive away. Outside of his bitterness towards NO I always find him a very pleasant guy who has time for anyone who approaches him. Its a real shame he took the approach that he did.

Just seen this from Hooky on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/peterhook/status/647484296287096832

My estimation of Hooky would go up so much if he would just tweet "Yer know what? It's good."

i was at his hull gig last night he said something about the album....i can't remember what though as i was leathered

i remember him coming on with the sun too and mentioning barney being at one of his gigs but again its a big foggy

If Bernard really did go to one of the shows, than it means, I think, that if Hooky sucked it up and apologized they could reconcile -- enough to make an album and some short tours. Hope springs eternal....

last thing I want is him back in the band, remove AOC, TPK and Ceremony from the set. Erase him like they did in the World video at Jodrell Bank. Music Complete is the best album they have done - bar none !!

LostSiren wrote: If Bernard really did go to one of the shows, than it means, I think, that if Hooky sucked it up and apologized they could reconcile -- enough to make an album and some short tours. Hope springs eternal....

Digital Mike Binoche wrote:

last thing I want is him back in the band, remove AOC, TPK and Ceremony from the set. Erase him like they did in the World video at Jodrell Bank. Music Complete is the best album they have done - bar none !!

LostSiren wrote: If Bernard really did go to one of the shows, than it means, I think, that if Hooky sucked it up and apologized they could reconcile -- enough to make an album and some short tours. Hope springs eternal....

I agree

Hooks left and not coming back and the band the band are better for it

I must admit I enjoyed last night though After not really wanting to go

Great to here low life live as it was that album that got me into them

The gig even had a fight involving some lads from Blackburn to add authenticity to the era

The Blackburn AHEM Youth?

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: The Blackburn AHEM Youth?

No!

They do still go to no gigs though

Rovers we're at hull today so they must have made a weekend of it

lee wrote:

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: The Blackburn AHEM Youth?

No!

They do still go to no gigs though

Rovers we're at hull today so they must have made a weekend of it

Hooky must be loving the new album?

Digital Mike Binoche wrote:

lee wrote:

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: The Blackburn AHEM Youth?

No!

They do still go to no gigs though

Rovers we're at hull today so they must have made a weekend of it

Hooky must be loving the new album?

I honestly can't remember what he said about it I really was smashed,the Mrs has reminded me I was doing the caterpillar down the hotel corridor,which isn't a good idea in your 40's my ribs and chest are killing me

It wasn't nice though as I remember shouting f### off at him

I also shouted for tutti frutti when they came back for encore

His latest tweet is pathetic

That's the first and last gig I go to of his as much as I enjoyed it

lee wrote: His latest tweet is pathetic

That's the first and last gig I go to of his as much as I enjoyed it

What was the tweet Lee?

https://twitter.com/peterhook/status/647828996001001472

Bernard non-alcoholic ale now available @alcoholfree - a little sour but gives great head! 😜

If this all gives him a kick up the arse… and he starts recording new material as good as the Monaco stuff… then I'll start listening again. But for now, I'd rather enjoy singing along to the New New Order tunes, and try and ignore him. For the sake of enjoying and embracing life, and music. It's a shame, he's given music fans a lot to enjoy… but the bitterness is unpalatable, even if understandable.

Why the fuck would Bernard suddenly decide to go to a Light show? Bernard's already moaned about being called a twat and a cunt (and a liar now as well) , I can't think he thought he would suddenly pay money to sneak in and then beg Hooky to stop the legal action that Hooky has been twirling an imiganary 'tache about like a Madchester Dick Dastardly for the last three years - I'm guessing someone with a similar hairstyle was spotted at the back of a crowd at one of the shows, and let's face it, Bernards hairstyle is not exactly uncommon amongst New Order fans, is it?

Ken Doherty wrote: Why the fuck would Bernard suddenly decide to go to a Light show? Bernard's already moaned about being called a twat and a cunt (and a liar now as well) , I can't think he thought he would suddenly pay money to sneak in and then beg Hooky to stop the legal action that Hooky has been twirling an imiganary 'tache about like a Madchester Dick Dastardly for the last three years - I'm guessing someone with a similar hairstyle was spotted at the back of a crowd at one of the shows, and let's face it, Bernards hairstyle is not exactly uncommon amongst New Order fans, is it?

No, Bernard admitted in the Sun interview yesterday that he'd been to one of the gigs.I posted scans of the interview in this thread

Mind you, The Sun being the cunts they are could have misquoted or made up that bit.

Well if he paid money to go and see the Light, more fool him, but like you said, I wouldn't take The Sun's words as the truth.

Ken Doherty wrote: Well if he paid money to go and see the Light, more fool him, but like you said, I wouldn't take The Sun's words as the truth.

I'd be surprised if even the Sun would mis-quote Bernard that blatantly. It's not gonna sell extra papers. Also I have to say that their music pages are the one part of that paper that are pretty good. They don't just cover mainstream pop stuff but quite a broad range. If you didn't know it was The Sun you probably wouldn't think it was the Sun (ifyouknowwhatImean).

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I read a review of a festival where bad loo and hook were both on,I remember reading hook was in the crowd watching bl so maybe that's where it happened?

tarbox23 wrote: https://twitter.com/peterhook/status/647828996001001472

Bernard non-alcoholic ale now available @alcoholfree - a little sour but gives great head! 😜

Music Completer will be Number 1, Gigs sold out - long live New Order

Can everyone stop banging on about Hooky rejoining the band? Never going to happen, and such talk is boring. Yes, they worked well together musically. But they don't anymore. Get over it. Besides unless Bernard writes a song called "I'm a complete twat and was wrong, I'm sorry Hooky, have a large cheque" I doubt Hooky will play on it!

lee wrote: I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure I read a review of a festival where bad loo and hook were both on,I remember reading hook was in the crowd watching bl so maybe that's where it happened?

Wasn't there a Bad Lieu gig at Electric Picnic Ireland where Hook and BL were both there the same day?

markreed wrote: Can everyone stop banging on about Hooky rejoining the band? Never going to happen, and such talk is boring. Yes, they worked well together musically. But they don't anymore. Get over it. Besides unless Bernard writes a song called "I'm a complete twat and was wrong, I'm sorry Hooky, have a large cheque" I doubt Hooky will play on it!

I'm pretty sure Hooky would still find fault with the title of that song... for some reason. 😆

lee wrote: i was at his hull gig last night he said something about the album....i can't remember what though

Well I'm sure it was awfully nice anyway.

markreed wrote: Can everyone stop banging on about Hooky rejoining the band? Never going to happen, and such talk is boring. Yes, they worked well together musically. But they don't anymore. Get over it. Besides unless Bernard writes a song called "I'm a complete twat and was wrong, I'm sorry Hooky, have a large cheque" I doubt Hooky will play on it!

Hey, whatcha doing Hooky/Have yourself a great big checky/I was, a real big twatto/Grab yer base and get here pronto

Hook is history - which is something he seems quite happy to peddle, as it happens.

He was a fucking hero once but that seems like a lifetime ago & I don't want him anywhere near Neworder ever again.