I've said this before, but I'll say it again in a way pertaining to this thread: the three Electronic albums really fill the gaps, during the 1990s, and almost seamlessly flow one after the other in conjunction with New Order. The electronic tracks on Technique hint at what Electronic (the album) will be. To me Republic is a refined sequel to Electronic and, in my opinion, the pinnacle of Bernard Sumner's work in this decade. The album is an to asset New Order and the band's star wouldn't burn quite so bright without it. Raise the Pressure is a more natural follow up to Republic than Electronic. A definite relative in sound, but without Hague at the controls, has a sloppier execution. There is also a return to a greater number of guitar based tracks that nicely predicts Twisted Tenderness. Get Ready is essentially a rawer version to Twisted Tenderness' heavy overproduction. For these reasons I primarily consider myself a fan of Bernard Sumner's music, as oppose to strictly New Order...
Ceremony to Superheated - revisiting and reviewing every core song
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These arguments run like me in front of Spice Girls videos. I got into NO through the triple whammy of Substance, Technique and Electronic. After that it was more the fun of collecting than the actual music. Then the triple shite of Republic, Rest Of and Raise the Pressure and Things Would Never Be The Same Again. I have to go for a whole day without making any childish innuendoes. It's long and hard but I can pull it off.
Fotzepolitic wrote:
The sleeve was genius clever Saville - a map of the world as football panels and a blurred hot summer "sun" in the top corner stretching out towards a blue "sky".
turn the sleeve 90 degrees left...
Another rare World mix... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laI57L48THM Still a shit song though.
mmh wrote:
Fotzepolitic wrote:
The sleeve was genius clever Saville - a map of the world as football panels and a blurred hot summer "sun" in the top corner stretching out towards a blue "sky".
turn the sleeve 90 degrees left...
Rorschach wrote: "E"
Mind blown!
Where will it end?
Never realised that before.Well well well.But Saville intend that or is it just a coincidental accident?
While i'm here, Regret was ace back in the day.Like Michael Monkhouse i thought the Fire Island mix was the main version because that's what Joe Wiley seemed to imply when she played it on Radio 1 in March 1993.Didn't find out it was a remix until i heard the actual main (guitary) version a few weeks later. World, like a lot of Republic was fairly meh for me.Like Mr Remmer says in his write up how he had become more interested in other acts by the time of Republic, by 1993 i had got really into other music like Aphex Twin, The Orb, Orbital, System 7, Ultramarine and all that lot.Aphex Twin's stuff around that time was doing a lot more for me than Republic.
Coincidence IMO. Did you know that if you see the word 'choice' in capitals on a piece of paper, turn the paper upside down, turn it around and then hold it in front of a source of bright light, it reads 'choice' exactly the same? SO WHY FUCKING DO IT? In 1996 the Spice Girls were doing more for me than Electronic. I asked them to.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
I got into NO through the triple whammy of Substance, Technique and Electronic. After that it was more the fun of collecting than the actual music. Then the triple shite of Republic, Rest Of and Raise the Pressure and Things Would Never Be The Same Again.
You went through virtually the same New Order school as me - except I loved Republic for its majestic brilliance, and didn't mind the next two Electronic albums. If I'm honest, I did want New Order back. I was disappointed encore when they did return with Get Ready. It was almost as if they had turned into the type of band they were mocking in the Touched video - Rock the twat and all that - minus Gillian's fetish loveliness...
Michael Monkhouse wrote: Another rare World mix... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laI57L48THM Still a shit song though.
Didn't sound very good to me. World on Republic is a great track. I agree with Dennis, they could have used a dab or two of Hooky's bass, but it's still a beautifully crafted piece of pop melancholia - like the rest of Republic - and most of New Order...
For me (this is English for I Am Right), RTP was the first inessential album. Till then there'd been a steady development as they'd struggled at first becaue NOT THAT STORY FUCKING AGAIN and then peaked 87 - 89. Reflange, The Other Two and even Repubelick were mediocre but in a sense I didn't mind cos it represented the end of an era. After that there were three years of ripoffs and then the occasional release with the even more occasional gem, but no real sense of Moving On (see what I did there?). I don't mind Get Ready - I think people were just grateful to have any NO, particularly with so much bass - there's a dip after the middle but there always is, even in Technique and Electronic. Crystal kicks butt, Turn My Way and VS are perfect melancholia, and PN would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if only the words weren't so limpwristed. I also have a soft spot for Dracula's Castle, which proved unpopular round these parts. The synth is reminiscent of Technique, the bass is high up there after the wank of Rep and Rest Of, and I even like the lyrics, which in classic Barnster styleee are both meaningless and meaningful. I also have a soft spot for Mel C, but that's old age. I remember NME running a loooooong article about whether they were splitting up, and the journo 'immersed myself in World' which she insisted was 'sad, almost like a Requiem'. I couldn't help feeling myself. Sorry, I couldn't help feeling myself she was just looking for levels that weren't there, which pretty much sums up all the journobabble in 93. In a similar vein, do you really find any fetish loveliness in Gillian? I've always found The Other Two extrtemely bland, both musically and as personalities.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
I don't mind Get Ready - I think people were just grateful to have any NO, particularly with so much bass - there's a dip after the middle but there always is, even in Technique and Electronic. Crystal kicks butt, Turn My Way and VS are perfect melancholia, and PN would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if only the words weren't so limpwristed. I also have a soft spot for Dracula's Castle, which proved unpopular round these parts. The synth is reminiscent of Technique, the bass is high up there after the wank of Rep and Rest Of, and I even like the lyrics, which in classic Barnster styleee are both meaningless and meaningful.
I listened to Get Ready today, as my opinion has been known to change. I'm glad I did, for Crystal - even with its honey / money bullshit - is probably New Order's last major anthem; I'm basically agreeing with Peter Hook on this. I could never love Turn My Way with its pointless guess vocal, and another dozy chorus, in which Bernard enthusiastically bores us into oblivion over washing his fucking car and not owning a key; must live in a care home or something, eh? I don't have a problem with Primitive Notion. Fans have commented on the clumsy lyrics, but I think they're quite interesting. It's my favourite track on the album. I used to say Morris did a good job on the drums, but since learnt he didn't play on the song at all (according to Hook again)!
Although related, WFTSC is a whole different conversation, alhtough I agree Dracula's Castle isn't too bad. It has a certain warmth. I like the fact they named it after Jane Seymour's house. What were they trying to say about the English Rose?
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
In a similar vein, do you really find any fetish loveliness in Gillian? I've always found The Other Two extremely bland, both musically and as personalities.
When I said 'fetish', I was referring to her rock chic attire in the Touched video. In the days before the Internet that video got me through lonesome tonight (I'm sure Gillian will be pleased to know). She stole the show, in spite of the director focusing on her the least for some crazy reason. After reading Hooky's book, I did kind of wonder whether he once had a thing for her; he made a song and dance about the only time she ever touched him. Gillian was pretty and sensual throughout the 1980s...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAviBlIt4D0&list=PLyygAsB8FRv\_m5FzaSwBzXYuWh0RAmJKX
How do you post videos?
Wow, thanks for that link. My nads are now dragging along the floor, my helm is up there like the Cutty Sark mast and I'm struggling to write this with my free hand. The Turd My Way lyrics ain't bad. The worst Barnster lyrics in MHO Again are when he goes into 'hey now, things could be kinda NICE if we were NICE cos life can be NICE, right'? Think Close Range, HNWTD, Dynamo - or rather, don't. NICE? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPUeB2ZqQU Off topic but I always got the impression people only '''fancy''' Gillian cos of the band. If she was your bank manager or you saw her walking down the street... She isn't partcularly good-looking (and I used to consider that kind of comment sexist, but then I overheard women on guys they're not into: man, they make Adolf Hitler sound like Emma Bunton), but the real problem is her total lack of charisma. She never says a word unless asked directly, and on stage she just looks like she wants to go to beddie-byes in her cute lickle farm. I'm shy too, but I ain't spent over 35 years in pop music... Incidentally, you can buy honey.
Deceiver wrote:
How do you post videos?
Like this:
At some point Youtube added an 's' onto the http at the begining of the address. However the BB codes on this forum haven't been updated since then (the Vimeo BB code thingy doesn't work at all now). Considering this forum is free I probably shouldn't complain though. So if you select Youtube from the BB dropdown, then paste the youtube address in - but delete the 's' on https - it should work.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
The Turd My Way lyrics ain't bad.
Even you don't sound convinced of that...
Michael Monkhouse wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPUeB2ZqQU
Haha! Hate Dire Straits. Good old Alexi Sayle...
Michael Monkhouse wrote: Off topic but I always got the impression people only '''fancy''' Gillian cos of the band. If she was your bank manager or you saw her walking down the street... She isn't partcularly good-looking (and I used to consider that kind of comment sexist, but then I overheard women on guys they're not into: man, they make Adolf Hitler sound like Emma Bunton), but the real problem is her total lack of charisma. She never says a word unless asked directly, and on stage she just looks like she wants to go to beddie-byes in her cute lickle farm. I'm shy too, but I ain't spent over 35 years in pop music...
All famous people have a heightened sex appeal; it's the same for anyone. The bank manager example could be used with Mel C just as easily.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: Incidentally, you can buy honey.
Here comes love, it's like *curry* you can buy it with money - this is John Major's preferred version... Bernard should know you can also pay to have your car washed - problem solved...
My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.
That's a bit cruel, old dewdrop. I specifically said the 1980s and gave a link as an example.
Just for that, here's a little fat fantasy for you:
I was quietly enjoying the fact that you'd all started pre-empting me, and then I had to look away. 😂
Dennis Remmer wrote: I was quietly enjoying the fact that you'd all started pre-empting me, and then I had to look away. 😂
Sorry, Dennis, I'm looking forward to your next review to get this thread back on track...
Deceiver wrote:
Michael Monkhouse wrote: My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.
That's a bit cruel, old dewdrop. I specifically said the 1980s and gave a link as an example.
Just for that, here's a little fat fantasy for you:
I still got a boner! Apologies to Dennis for turning his objective appraisal into a mass debate. PS 'According to Hooky...' So it must be true.
I have to say I agree with the comments on how irrelevant NO seemed in 1993. It was my first Summer back after uni and all my friend was sharing the awesome stuff he'd got into in the meantime. It was hard to imagine Liar being played at top volume to the excitement of a sweaty dancefloor. RIAD was actually the second single but I'm sure you know that and I probably misread something. Claude Flowers (ha!) agreed it was the worst thing they ever put their name to. It partcularly wound me up that these ''''''rad 'n' staunchly anti-commercial'''''' Wankunians had the B-sides spread like a prostitute's legs, so you had to buy all of them to get everything and it was still shit. When I first played CD 2 I thought the player was jammed and playing the same bollocks track again and again. (The 'definitive' one is the Dance Hall Groove. I know this because I was a trainspotter, not because it was worth half a wank). The Ambient Mix from Neneh Cherry's sidekick Booga Bear was acceptable and used to introduce them at Reading, but still smacked of compromise and filthy lucre. The only really worthwhile one was K-Klass which reappeared on Rest Of and had edits on both TOTP and Radio 1's Top 40. I was such a geeky nerdy little trainspotting wanker back then. Now I'm just a cunt. Young Off as a single? Hmmm... There was something about that song that never quite came together. It had all the elements of Round and Round but the sum of the parts and all that. Tiger attacked a bugonia. Claude Flowers.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: I have to say I agree with the comments on how irrelevant NO seemed in 1993. It was my first Summer back after uni and all my friend was sharing the awesome stuff he'd got into in the meantime. It was hard to imagine Liar being played at top volume to the excitement of a sweaty dancefloor.
Irrelevant? I believe the Republic era was commercially New Order's most successful album - and likely always will be now. There was a mood change around this time with the Britpop thing taking off. Sometimes I think fans who hate Republic wanted New Order to be like Oasis - boring rock and roll stars...
Michael Monkhouse wrote: RIAD was actually the second single but I'm sure you know that and I probably misread something. Claude Flowers (ha!) agreed it was the worst thing they ever put their name to. It partcularly wound me up that these ''''''rad 'n' staunchly anti-commercial'''''' Wankunians had the B-sides spread like a prostitute's legs, so you had to buy all of them to get everything and it was still shit. When I first played CD 2 I thought the player was jammed and playing the same bollocks track again and again. (The 'definitive' one is the Dance Hall Groove. I know this because I was a trainspotter, not because it was worth half a wank). The Ambient Mix from Neneh Cherry's sidekick Booga Bear was acceptable and used to introduce them at Reading, but still smacked of compromise and filthy lucre. The only really worthwhile one was K-Klass which reappeared on Rest Of and had edits on both TOTP and Radio 1's Top 40. I was such a geeky nerdy little trainspotting wanker back then. Now I'm just a cunt. Young Off as a single? Hmmm... There was something about that song that never quite came together. It had all the elements of Round and Round but the sum of the parts and all that. Tiger attacked a bugonia. Claude Flowers.
Haha! Claude Flowers: was he a real person, or just a pseudonym for Peter Hook? Either way, they wipe the same arsehole... Yes, Flowers hated Republic and critical of Electronic, but thought Revenge's One True Passion was a modern masterpiece...
Frenchman with two dicks mauled by tiger. Claude Nobbes. I meant irrelevant musically. In 1993 NO were huge but that was cos of London (don't believe that Borely shite about 'pretending to go glossy': he'd justify anally raping kittens if a Manc musician confessed to it). The handful of actual songs rarely stepped beyond mediocrity. I know I've been through this 80697470 before but in the preNettish days Claude Flowers was a breath of fresh air. his sobre, informed approach was a welcome change from Paul Lester (sycophant), Savage (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) and Borely himself (pretentious wank). His Only Mistake (see what I did there?) was the solo projects: that awesome Electronic debut gets short shrift, while the bullshit Other2AndU and bullshitter OneTrueWankedOn enjoy rave reviews.
I agree about Ruined.I kind of like some of Barney's lyrics and the way he sings one or two of the lines, i like some of the music but there's something unlikeable about the thing ultimately, dunno what or why.Maybe it's just all a bit a plod-a-long.Not listened to Vicious Circle in years, i'll have to dig it out.I remember some of it being really good, pretty fun and funky and melodic in places?
I'm glad you're over your flu, Dennis. Good reviews as always - whether I agree with you or not. You've persuaded me to dig out my CD single. I only bought the one for economic reasons and fear of being exploited. The price tag says: "Music Junction £1.99". I don't even have a vague recollection of what Music Junction looked liked, but I can say the price was well worth it. When it comes to remixes, I pretty much ignore them unless they grab me. The Ambient Mix is suitably foreboding and The K-Klass Mix is one of my favourite remixes. Vicious Circle is nothing special, but it's nice to end on an original track.
I agree Ruined In A Day is a strange choice for single. I like the song a lot, but it's one of the least commercial sounding tracks on the album. However, New Order fans can't have it both ways: this single gave us something different to the typical New Order uptempo anthem - dark and brooding - the very mood many New Order fans wanted them to return to for years. Bernard really excelled himself with the lyrics on Republic. Because of his occasional howlers, he really doesn't get enough credit for how good a lyricist he can be. Technique to Republic is his most consistent period. Ruined In A Day is no exception. I'm sure Morrissey would eat a Big Mac to have an opening line as good as, "Listen, I may be wrong, but you're missing."
Ruined In A Day is like an eerie gentle thunder and there's nothing else quite like it. The track might not be one of their best singles but, sadly, it's still better than most of the following singles...
Good news: Amidst the endless, pointless, soulless truckload of London rerereremixes there was an original B-side. Bad news: It was Vicious Menstrual Cycle. 'Gotta have house... MUSIC!' in 1993. Good to see they were still on the cutting edge of music. The Italian house pianos are no improvement on That Fucking Footie Record, and the practice of 'the ---- one' goes back to Technique and before. I wouldn't be surprised if this was an old, unfinished leftover - in fact the only cool thing is you get more Hooky on one track than on all Repubelick put together. THREE INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT VICIOUS SHITELE
- It brings the Refucklick number of tracks up to 12. There were rumours it was gonna be a 13-song LP (fourth article at https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/tag/693/New\_Order), which sounded awesome but quality not etc. In '96 the Barnster said they did 13 gigs, one for each song on Rep, but the bastards never told me there were only 12 songs on it. Like a virgin punk, he just doesn't give a fuck.
- Monaco reused the bassline on Sweet Lips, like EGG on Shattered - Born to Kill is Under the Stars and practically Ms Merton Theme and slightly less Weirdo. Just keep knockin' out those hits, eh?
- That is the end of my three interesting facts about Vicious Circle. I hope you enjoyed them.
Jumping the pistol (something Nancy Spunged-on used to like doing) but I have to get off the Net. Like my cuddly bear who can't give up anal: a-dicked-ted. Sppoky was the first in the long line of London rip-offs in that the band weren't even speaking to each other, let alone prepared to promote through video or TV appearances. A mid-93 NME (or maybe MM) interview with the Other Goo said they felt they'd sold part of their souls already, like there'd be no more vids for art's sake, and when London started BSing about a Republic backpack and a 4th single to sell up to Christmas it just didn't sound very NOery... Fortunately, Spooky actually turned out to be very good and arguably their best release all year. Yes, even better than RIAD CD 2. The Fluke mix was what I wanted Republick to sound like: strong lyrics, interesting new synth and THAT bass - but the real joy was the 2nd CD and the Stadium mix is pretty much an object lesson in how to mix i.e. stay true to the original but give it more umph. MM (or maybe NME) slagged off Republic, the remixes and The Other Pooh and More Pooh but commented that Fluke's Spooky 'could go on and on. It doesn't of course but it's been a criminally long time since I wanted a New Order record to go on for threre minutes, never mind forever.' Rest of the album: let's not waste time. Shit. We've had over 20 years to try to find anything else, but...
I agree the album version of Spooky just leaves me flat. Some unlikeable elements to it.Some of the remixes are great though, can't remember which one is which but I have 2 different CDs of Spooky or maybe even 3. It's all a long time ago. Just a few months ago in a second hand record shop I stumbled across a 12" of Spooky with 3 mixes on ( all originally on the CDs) I hadn't realised til then that a 12" of Spooky was the only one of the standard UK 12" single releases from Republic I didn't have or even that they'd released a 12" of it. I snapped it up immediately, fairly cheap as well at £8.A lucky find.
Everyone Everywhere is ok, some great lyrics by Bernard lift it.
Buggered if I can hear Hooky in Everyone Everywhere. The 12" of Spooky was apparently 'available for one week only'. This was salesspeak for 'Buy it now please.' Yes, I fell for it.
