522 replies · 591,704 views
Debaser wrote: Random Question: Is there any way for the reader to minimize the banner accross the top of the blog screen?
It's the way the Wordpress template being used handles the images. I like it but am obviously extremely biased.
Debaser wrote: Also did the blog change at some point from every *key* NO track to just every track?
No - always intended to do all tracks, but in the sense of focussing on the key recording of that track.
Thanks for the feedback. DR
Fotzepolitic wrote: Dee Lewis is the backing singer on Liar? Hang on, didn't she do backing vocs for Style Council ? If not who am i getting mixed up with?
Not sure about Style Council...
I figured that a) she was the only credited backing singer, b) she is a backing singer, and c) Liar has female backing vox, so ergo she must be the backing singer on Liar.
Debaser wrote: I always end up yawning when I listen to Electronic.
If you mean the first Electronic album, I couldn't agree less. The first 30 seconds kick more butt than all of Republic. As for the second, that was a pile of steaming gnu poo: 3 years, Kraftwank, Bernard's talk of '47 ideas - it sounds really fucking good - Johnny's got this virtual guitar' etc, and what did we end up with? MOR, hackneyed synth, yawnsome pop pap. There may be a decent album to be culled from it and the Bsides but I can't be arsed. Twisted Tender Mess was OK but the magic had gone. BL has its down points (Dynamo is Bernard at his lyrically weakest) but enough ups to make it worthwhile: Runaway, Poisonous Intent, another one. People think I'm always slagging off NO but I ain't. I just try to keep things in perspective. In 93 I was reading stuff like 'The most important band since the 60s' and then hearing Liar - or 'home to the most exciting sound in the post punk world' / Chemical - or 'powerful, bass-driven rock' / World. I didn't fall for the hype and when they went on hold indefinitely it just felt like having their cake and eating it. FIVE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT REPUBLIC
Excellent thought provoking review from the DR.
Electronic music was at its strongest imo between 92-96. After the rave scene artists really started pushing the boundaries on albums as well as 12". Think Aphext twin, artifiacial intelligence series of albums, then you had 2nd wave Detroit such as the mighty Underground Resistance, Carl Craig and soon to be Drexciya . Added to that the Berlin sound of basic channel.
Then you get the b side to republic (the A side is strong) sounding tired to the background of other electronic music, more of the boring house sound of that day rather than the innovative sound from elsewhere. Liar is probably my least favourite New Order track t(yes worse than RTS) followed closely by Chemical. Young Offender is just an ok tune for me.
The album needed more dance / guitar crossover and for that it needed more Hooky bass. I prefer it more now than I did at time of release, and that's probably because I no longer go to clubs and listen to less pure electronic music. It was New order reforming in 98 that made me go to gigs again and their 2001 tour took me back out of the clubs and into going to gigs again.
Dennis Remmer wrote:
Fotzepolitic wrote: Dee Lewis is the backing singer on Liar? Hang on, didn't she do backing vocs for Style Council ? If not who am i getting mixed up with?
Not sure about Style Council...
I figured that a) she was the only credited backing singer, b) she is a backing singer, and c) Liar has female backing vox, so ergo she must be the backing singer on Liar.
Ah i wasn't questioning the fact Dee Lewis was the backing singer on Liar.Like you state, Dee Lewis is indeed the backing singer on that song.I was sure she was a backing singer for Style Council also but it turns out i was getting her mixed up with Dee C Lee who did do backing vox for Style Council (most notably on Walls Come Tumbling Down ) amongst others and later a little solo success.It was the first name "Dee" and the surname beginning with "Le" that got me mixed up.
The true joy of Republic is not its intrinsic quality, but its nostalgic and evocative qualities... Hear a track and even if you don't like it think, OMG: this takes me back - I was doing THIS thing in THAT place and felt THIS way, and boy, things really were totally and utterly fucking shit. But now, things really are total and utter fucking shit too. And since then till now, things really have been just total and utter fucking shit as well. And even before that song (which is, in itself, total and utter fucking shit) things were indeed total, utter fucking shit... I wonder what the future holds... Thanks Republic, you're AWESOME.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: The true joy of Republic is not its intrinsic quality, but its nostalgic and evocative qualities... Hear a track and even if you don't like it think, OMG: this takes me back - I was doing THIS thing in THAT place and felt THIS way, and boy, things really were totally and utterly fucking shit. But now, things really are total and utter fucking shit too. And since then till now, things really have been just total and utter fucking shit as well. And even before that song (which is, in itself, total and utter fucking shit) things were indeed total, utter fucking shit... I wonder what the future holds... Thanks Republic, you're AWESOME.
I'd never thought of it like that.
That Chemical review is actually more than kind! This is like an exorcism for me: I'm gonna go through this useless album for the last time and then forget it forever. Remember: For everyone who doesn't like Chemical, there's always someone else who doesn't like it either.
Got to admit my comments about Young Offender above may have been harsh. It's an absolute masterpiece in pop song-ery compared to Chemical. Y.O. may have been keeping up with the times rather than setting the pace, but at least it had a reasonable tune. Chemical...has nothing.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: This is like an exorcism for me: I'm gonna go through this useless album for the last time and then forget it forever.
I dunno about that. Republic gave us Regret, World, RIAD (esp. Reunited in a Day mix, albeit that version wasn't on the album) and Avalanche. Everyone Everywhere was pleasant (especially the end section) and I also like parts of Times Change, believe it or not. It wasn't all bad.
I reckon the real trudge for Dennis will be Get Ready once he gets past Crystal. The rest of the album is so boring, I don't know how Dennis is going to get through it all. Short reviews (like Chemcial) will perhaps be the answer. I would suggest that the Mission Impossible theme is more enjoyable than most of Get Ready, maybe lump it in and tack on Here To Stay (great tune) in order to show that 'era' as more than a big snoooze. Much prefer WFTSC myself... And MC obvs.
Debaser wrote: It's an absolute masterpiece in pop song-ery compared to Chemical.
Getting your head kicked in is an absolute joy compared to getting your head kicked in, sliced into six million pieces, rammed up your bottom and then set fire to by a member of One Direction.
Debaser wrote: Get Ready once he gets past Crystal. The rest of the album is so boring.
Primitive Notion... Vicious Streak... even Turn My Way. They may not be stunning but they have more guts than Republic. This really has to stop.
I remember laughing out loud at the rap on Times Change, much like I did when I heard Feel Every Beat for the first time (Have YOU ever been the victim in a violent fight? Phone Sumner Securities on 0161 1991) but over the years it's grown on me and I've gotten over it. Reading on here it's clear people are still VERY ANGRY about these things but, meh, nostalgia is pretty good for painting over cracks, I find.
I could be wrong but I always thought Times Change and it's references to Port-Royal Town was a metaphor for what was going down in the MCR at the time in which case wouldn't that make it the only Manchester themed song New Order did? Unless it was actually another metaphor for Factory in which case, yawn, get over yourself Sumner, nobody twisted your arm, son.
There are plenty of fine songs from their early period ,while they were in their 20's (JD-LL)and many more from their middle period(B,T,and R) ,as they were now in their 30's . And they actually have plenty more from their late period , their 40 's (GR-LS, and 7singles ) Any single period I choose I have a better, more interesting and exciting group of songs than any of their rivals , contemporaries, bands or individual's entire careers, including current bands . But they're now in their 50's and with BL and MC adding more fine songs their late,late period is also great. I expect 2 or 3 more albums of songs. And Live shows and many extras . They are the best band ever by far with more than plenty of great songs
I actually loved FEB and I'm amazed (well, I've had time to come to terms with it) it barely scraped the Top 40 - while the limp, lame shame of Getting Awank with Shit was a megashit. Disappointed was hardly bush in the envelope either. Even sychophant, no-objectivity-at-all Paul Lester commented re TC, 'When Bernard can't sing, it's great. When he can't rap, it's embarrassing. Remember FEB?' We probably did, given it was just two years before with practically bugger all inbetween. Even I don't drink that much. It's an ironic title for a copycat track on their least innovative album ever. The synth always struck me as the electro equivalent of power chords and there's a tiny bit of Hooky at the end but it's too little too late. The constant comparisons with Electronic were lost on me cos said album was approximately 545990970654 Light Decades (see what I did there?) ahead. And that yellow fever / hay is sub Dolores Cranberry. Only two more songs and then Republic is like Melanie C. Something I want to put to bed forever.
Coops wrote: Unless it was actually another metaphor for Factory in which case, yawn, get over yourself Sumner, nobody twisted your arm, son.
Round and Round was apparently about Tony and - another Monkhouse scoop - Liar definitely was. 'I can't stand the music' was reportedly cos they used to have MTV playing all day and Barney hated it (remember this was before the Spice Girls). Did anyone else notice how the Other Two left a certain Mr Wilson off their 'thank yous' on the first CD? Petty, small-minded, arrogant little wankers. The guy funded the first Joy Division album so you'd probably be cleaning the bogs in a strip club without his generosity. I know he wasn't overstruck by the Other Two And You and was banking on New Order, but let's not forget, said LP was a total and utter pile of shit and almost as bad as Reflange. Wise choice. Bernard said the 'payroll' line wasn't specifically about Factory, but I found it hard to imagine him penning such a line in 1988. He also said RIAD sounds like it's about Factory but wasn't: they all went out and got 'zonked' and then wrote this tune. Again, I can't picture 1992's NO hanging out together at all, let alone bashing out a (practically Hook-free) track afterwards, and got the impression he was talking about Technique. I had a friend at university. Really, I did. He used to change the lyrics to 'This is how it feels to be / On London and not Factory'. He wasn't my friend after that. Writing songs about the fact you write songs really is a cop-out - like 'Loved It (The Other Track)'. It's similar to '''ironically''' crap comedians who are just crap, or writing a book about being unable to write a book. Just do your job. The only decent thing about Repubelick is the track order. Imagine if it kicked off with Liar and climaxed with Chemical... One more track and then I will never bother with it again. I was always attempting to find something worthwhile but not any more... I'm sick of trying. I mean it. It's over.
@Michael You don't seem to understand that Wilson was not God. Steve and Gillian did it before 1994.
Not sure what your point is. They have two daughters so by Monty Python logic they did it twice. I'm not a huge fan of Tony Wilson. It would be unfair to Mel C. The Other Two album was ready before Republic and Tony was reportedly iffy about releasing it cos he - understandably - thought (well, knew) the NO LP would be a safer bet. Given that he'd risked his life's savings on Unknown Pleasures, let the notoriously shambolic 80's New Order do what the fuck they liked and even given Hooky carte blanche with that shitty, misogynistic, my-equally-important-bandfellows-can-fuck-off-out-of-it Pineapple Feces vid, I can understand his scepticism, and I find The Other Two's comments extremely unfair. I saw a vid where Steve actually got a whole sentence out and called Wilson a 'gobshite' - a tad ungrateful, perchance?
Release schedule was in London's, not Wilson's hands by then. Original plan was for Movin' On to be lead-up single to LP release in late 1992 (Moby mix eventually backed Selfish single ).
Yeah! Some interesting comments at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=3362#post22639 ... Everyone in 93 was going on about how FINAL the end of Rep sounded and would Reading be the end etc. I must've been the only one to pick up on the irony of people's despairing over the end of a band who had so OBVIOUSLY run out of steam. 'OMG, I WANNA WAIT ANOTHER 4 YEARS FER ANOTHER ALBUM AS BAD AS REPUBLIC, ANOTHER HANDFUL OF TIRED, FORMULAIC GIGS AT 5650876087549739-DOLLAR YANKEE STADIUMS AFTER 4546756543480984 SUB-BLUR ACTS AND ANOTHER PRETENTIOUS, WANKY, UNWATCHABLE PAUL BORELY DOC NARRATED BY SOME AMERICAN GIRL WHO SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S GIVING HERSELF A KIT-KAT SHUFFLE... PLEASE don't bail out on me, you fuck shites.'
Special + Avalanche reviews posted.
Republic done. Took a while to think about it.
On a side note... The Light are currently downunder - catching their Substance(s) gig this Sunday night. Makes me think how Hooky's going to handle Avalanche when he gets around to touring Republic? 'Faith' repeated in a low growl? erm...
Glad that's over. Nostalgia? Ah yes. Fine memories of sitting in my bedroom with no friends at all, let alone a female one, translating Latin, jerking of to any image with a billigram of womanhood therein cos I didn't have the guts to get any proper porn and shitting my pants cos I knew I was gonna get my face shoved down the toliet at school next day (they were tough, our teachers). Avalanche is graceful, dreamy and totally pointless. Still, one word is 53 more than Gillian is usually capable of. The Light should tour Too Crazy Cowboys with Mel C.
Love Avalanche, my only complaint is it's too short. It may be mostly an "Other Two track" but I don't care, I'm sure thare are plenty of tracks that are primarily Barney tracks, but we don't complain. If there turned out to be a longer version of this (a la Elegia - although maybe not that long), it might just be enough to tempt me to buy a physically reissued Republic (although if it's gonna be a box set that costs £60 - £80 like the Led Zep album box sets...maybe not). It's the combination of cold (like the snow of an avalanche) and the warmth of the guitar (setting it off?) that makes it special. Quite often it's those ambiguous vibes that make you take notice of NO. Dancable-tracks-tinged-with-indie-misery was pretty much a genre invented by them after all.
Sooner or later someone has to use this as the bittersweet music to soundtrack the death of a movie hero; all slo-mo and tragi-heroic as he/she saves someone and loses their life in the process. Dying a beautiful, flawed death, as perhaps NO seemed to be doing at the time.
Dennis Remmer wrote: On a side note... The Light are currently downunder - catching their Substance(s) gig this Sunday night. Makes me think how Hooky's going to handle Avalanche when he gets around to touring Republic? 'Faith' repeated in a low growl? erm...
Having seen his Movement/PCL and Low Life/Brotherhood gigs, I have actually spared a some time to think about this (sad!). He's doing the Substances as one big gig, so that leaves him with Technique + ?? up next. Ok the ?? should be Republic. BUT as the quality of albums dropped after Technique, I think he should do a "best of the rest" + Technique: From Republic: Regret, World, RIAD, Avalanche. From Get Ready: Crystal, Primitive Notion, Someone Like You, Here to Stay (well HTS was from that era, and it's a close second to Crystal for me). From Sirens: Krafty, WFTSC, I Told You So, Turn.
Do the "best of the rest" tracks first , make us wait for Technique (maybe hold Regret back for the encore, especially as Hooky considers it the last proper NO song).
Also don't do any post-sirens stuff, despite previous "threats". That would be a bad idea.
As for Avalanche in particular I 'm thinking of The Beach at the Movemner/PCL gig. It was played loud but not live. It was in a gap between the end of PCL and the encore. Put it in the gap between "best of the rest" and Technique, but don't play it live. Or else do play it live but either don't sing that word, or hire a female vocalist who could sing "faith" and help out on World, Crystal & Someone Like You.
I imagine this post may attract some ire. Let's see.
Always liked Avalanche. Used to listen to it often but not so much now. I frequently commented on the old forum years ago what a great track it is but mostly received derision and negativity in return, oddly. Years ago on the old forum someone commented the mood Avalanche evoked was very similar to the music in some famous ballet or theatre play that I can no longer remember the name of and I never heard the music anyway so couldn't offer an opinion yes or no as I never tracked down the music, frustratingly.
Hooky's album-by-album approach kinda falls apart after Technique. I can't imagine him paying 'tribute' to the BBC Peel Sessions or Live in Concert (as opposed to Dead In Concert), and the endless London rehashes didn't seem to have FA to do with the actual band, Bernard excepted. Still and Substances were different cos they were actively involved: they were interviewed for Sub 88 and rerecorded trax for Sub 87. Hooky actually said London was when they lost it with all those remixes - mind you, if he felt that badly, he might've tried to block them. I guess his bank account had something to do with it. It's amazing that between their very public pubic disbanding after Reading and the reunion they fobbed us off with 6 rewank singles (Spooky, TF, 1963, BM, LWTUA, Video 586) and 4 compilations (Best Of, Rest Of, Permawank, Fart and Holes) - yet their credibility remains. Then there's Revenge, which even he isn't too fond of - and Freebass, well worth the 6-year wait. Monaco were good but can they guarantee a worldwide audience? Last time I saw the Light it was a crappy Italian seaside town but he had a full house playing JD's 'legendary two albums and more'. I couldn't help wondering if he'd've garnered the same reaction as ex-Revenge / Freebass member playing Republic and Waiting for The Sirens's Call. We'll see.
Debaser wrote: a "best of the rest" + Technique: From Republic: Regret, World, RIAD, Avalanche. From Get Ready: Crystal, Primitive Notion, Someone Like You, Here to Stay (well HTS was from that era, and it's a close second to Crystal for me). From Sirens: Krafty, WFTSC, I Told You So, Turn.
Do the "best of the rest" tracks first , make us wait for Technique (maybe hold Regret back for the encore, especially as Hooky considers it the last proper NO song).
Also don't do any post-sirens stuff, despite previous "threats". That would be a bad idea.
As for Avalanche in particular I 'm thinking of The Beach at the Movemner/PCL gig. It was played loud but not live. It was in a gap between the end of PCL and the encore. Put it in the gap between "best of the rest" and Technique, but don't play it live. Or else do play it live but either don't sing that word, or hire a female vocalist who could sing "faith" and help out on World, Crystal & Someone Like You.
This will happen.
Around Brutal I wasn't really interested. As I said before, my obsessive phase was like my mother, i.e. it ran to seed. M4P was a pleasant surprise though, and Twisted Titness started well but got a bit samey. The Other Two soppymore must be the one album from this camp I know least of all - I played it a few times and then left it in the UK, so I guess my folks will've thrown it out. Even post-Republic, there've been albums I know inside-out simply through dint of listening. I couldn't even list the tracks on Stupor Highways, let alone bring the toons to mind. I think I was more curious than excited about 'Brutal'. It was kinda cool they were returning with a one-off rather than a full-on album and tour - if I was cynical I'd say it was a cop-out, but I am known for my positivity and enthusiasm. It certainly looks forward to Get Ready rather than back to Republic, which is a good thing for me, but we'll cross that bridge etc. Good backing vocals and lots of Hooky, but some terrible lyrics (again, more GR: think Field and its curtain, or Slow Jam and its all of it). Reminds me of Hellbent, but never mind.
Brutal was ok.Or ok-ish.It never blew your socks off on first listen like an Age Of Consent or Vanishing Point did but it did offer a glimmer of optimism that more new songs and/or an album would be in the pipeline in the next year or so.I think i first heard Brutal when Mark 'n Lard premiered it on their then Radio 1 afternoon show in about February 2000.I may have remembered that wrong though, it's a long time ago.My first thoughts were fairly positive but i agree Dennis, it is a bit ploddy but depending on my mood i can take that.I like a lot if not all the lyrics and the backing vocals and the eastern ish strings.But yeah, think it only featured quietly in the background for a few seconds in the 2 guys talking outside the beach hut scene in The Beach movie.I felt fairly sure after Brutal that NO's next album would be one of the rockiest things they'd ever done (unfortunately that meant we got Rock The Shack but Crystal and Primitive Notion are great).It seemed like waiting forever between Brutal and what turned out to be Get Ready.
How on earth did you miss the 87 Australia and New Zealand tour, Dennis? Mind you i missed the comeback gig in July 1998 at Manchester Apollo. I only became aware of it a week or two later when i stumbled across the review of it in NME.Was totally gutted, compounded by the fact i had had a week's holiday from work the week of the gig and could quite easily travelled up to Manc .Nevermind as seeing them at Reading 98 more than made up for it and was one the best nights of my life.Saw them at the Xmas 98 MEN arena gig but that wasn't one of their more memorable shows but i did see Underworld perform at that event.
The mid 90s were the wilderness years, crappy Best Of and Rest Of,various remixes, some of Monaco's Music For Pleasure was ok but i've never been a big fan of Hooky's side projects.I could just about take half Electronic's Raise The Pressure (wonder if Paul Lester ever did a review of that, maybe Michael Monkhouse could let us know if so![[:d]](/emoticons/biggrin.gif){kind=small}
) and half their Twisted Tenderness and get one half decent album i guess.Can't even remember what songs are on Twisted Tenderness, haven't listened to it for years , only vaguely remember the chorus for the title track.
I only remember The Other Two's Superhighways album standoutsbeing You Can Fly and the title track which is possibly the finest song they did apart from Selfish off the first album.
Fotzepolitic wrote: I could just about take half Electronic's Raise The Pressure (wonder if Paul Lester ever did a review of that, maybe Michael Monkhouse could let us know if so
Do the words 'red flag, bull' mean anything to you? The RTP reviews were negative, and rightly so. The only positivish one was http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/melodymaker6july1996.jpg. I thought it was crap. Loved this one: http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/nme6july1996.jpg.
Crikey - got to love Sumner's jacket in the first article. He looks like he left the ironing board in it when he put it on.
Michael - you may want to edit your post to remove the full stops from the end of the links. I keep getting the bloody 'FORBIDDEN!!!!' message when I click the hyperlinks. Getting rid of the '.' corrects things.
