The Worst New Order Album

normally i'd say "Republic", but it has some real gems on it, like "Special", "Chemical" (yes, this one's grooving!) and the (somehow) brilliant "Ruined in a day". "Movement" is my vote, cos' New Order are still searching for an identity...and fail.

Republic was always difficult to play in its entirety, I couldn`t get past the 4 track very often.

Yup.. I agree Republic. I really like what stephen hague's done with other new order releases but I think it was sort of him being left alone in (I think) Real world studios with far to much time, no band (!) and lots of gadgets that make it sound just totally over produced.

Regret and ruined in a day are saving graces, but spooky and the rest are like me arse!

PCL. Don't ask me why... I mean, I love it, but it just hasn't got "it"!

d'oh!

Republic sounds like New Order thru a filter, Steven Hague's filter, less real New Order personality shows thru. I've always lost interest in the middle after Ruined in a Day.

Movement is underrated, but just sounds really lackluster, compared to Closer before it and PC&L's after it. I think Martin Hannet got carried away giving it a detached, distant, funereal sound.

Originally posted by low-life Republic sounds like New Order thru a filter, Steven Hague's filter, less real New Order personality shows thru. I've always lost interest in the middle after Ruined in a Day. Movement is underrated, but just sounds really lackluster, compared to Closer before it and PC&L's after it. I think Martin Hannet got carried away giving it a detached, distant, funereal sound.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, on both counts. Republic is someone else's take on what he thought New Order should sound like, and Movement is someone trying to balance a loss with another loss, in this case of passion. Movement has no soul, no drive, no life to it. It is grey where Closer was white and PCL colourful.

It can be great being a NewOrder fan...

just look at the way this thread is going!!

while most fans have to put up with their band releasing some absolute tripe and some real shockers which they have to painfully attempt to 'pass off', our arguments essentially boil down to either sub NewOrder standard production techniques or over production on an album!!

haha dont ya love it :D

The difference is in the quality of the producer and their relationship and understanding of New Order.

The overtly, fluffy light pop production of Republic is unforgivable and has tainted JD and NO's otherwise perfect portfolio of outstanding work. How Hague, a well renowned, competent and obviously intelligent producer(who has worked with some great and fabulous musical talents) misfired on such a monumentally massive scale is probably down to the brand of biscuit they had in the studio for him. I'm guessing they'd bought a family pack of ginger snaps, contrary to Hague's well known love of custard creams.

Either that or his ear fell of mid-way through 'World, The Price of Eggs.'

Certain synthetic sounds from 'The Republican' appear to have been taken from battery operated musical instruments found in the bargain bucket, located at the rear of 'Everything's a Pound' ... underneath the out of date gentlemen's talcum powder and last years ladies tights.

At which point did Mr. Hague remember Peter Hook was also a member of the band? - Tuesday?

Originally posted by Huntsman The difference is in the quality of the producer and their relationship and understanding of New Order.The overtly, fluffy light pop production of Republic is unforgivable and has tainted JD and NO's otherwise perfect portfolio of outstanding work. How Hague, a well renowned, competent and obviously intelligent producer(who has worked with some great and fabulous musical talents) misfired on such a monumentally massive scale is probably down to the brand of biscuit they had in the studio for him. I'm guessing they'd bought a family pack of ginger snaps, contrary to Hague's well known love of custard creams.Either that or his ear fell of mid-way through 'World, The Price of Eggs.'Certain synthetic sounds from 'The Republican' appear to have been taken from battery operated musical instruments found in the bargain bucket, located at the rear of 'Everything's a Pound' ... underneath the out of date gentlemen's talcum powder and last years ladies tights.At which point did Mr. Hague remember Peter Hook was also a member of the band? - Tuesday?

Aye but in it's defence Rawkus Shithole int on it.

Does this mean RUINED IN A DAY...cos i am having a bad one anyhow?I must have been very low in the early 90's cos i liked REPUBLIC and still do.Does this mean i am still low or are you lot just a lot higher?

Originally posted by Poll Axed Does this mean RUINED IN A DAY...cos i am having a bad one anyhow?I must have been very low in the early 90's cos i liked REPUBLIC and still do.Does this mean i am still low or are you lot just a lot higher?

I like it too. Even Regret is not really so bad.

No REGRETS about your last comment PATRICK?

Some regret about finally saying something positive about Regret.

But ultimately you feel much better for it. If you will, a very arduous trek across a mountain plane, man and sphincter muscle locked in mortal combat until the sighting of an adequately sized tree stump to crouch behind and release the tension on to an ill prepared landscape.

Stephen Hague only over produced Republic because NO let him. Clearly they couldn't be bothered to put too much input in themselves - hence writing credits for Hague for the whole album. It's a shame coz there's some good songs on there, lyrically it's a lot better than GR for instance, it's just over polished. Movement on the other hand is rubbish.

I noticed a funny detail... On "Republic" Pascal Gabriel is credited with pre-production on "Regret"... But on "International", on that same track, he is credited as co-producer! Funny how things change in 9 years!

Originally posted by Huntsman But ultimately you feel much better for it. If you will, a very arduous trek across a mountain plane, man and sphincter muscle locked in mortal combat until the sighting of an adequately sized tree stump to crouch behind and release the tension on to an ill prepared landscape.

I couldn't have said it half as well.

you guys are on crack, Movement kicks ass. Maybe you're not playing it loud enough ?

I don't really like Brotherhood. And it's still too early for me to have a real opinion about Get Ready.

Originally posted by Huntsman But ultimately you feel much better for it. If you will, a very arduous trek across a mountain plane, man and sphincter muscle locked in mortal combat until the sighting of an adequately sized tree stump to crouch behind and release the tension on to an ill prepared landscape.

as one who enjoys hiking and mountain climbing, i can verify that a strategically placed boulder is equally as useful as an adequately sized tree stump (and often the only option when one is caught with a full intestine whilst above the tree-line).

and i really like the song regret.

Originally posted by Huntsman The difference is in the quality of the producer and their relationship and understanding of New Order.The overtly, fluffy light pop production of Republic is unforgivable and has tainted JD and NO's otherwise perfect portfolio of outstanding work. How Hague, a well renowned, competent and obviously intelligent producer(who has worked with some great and fabulous musical talents) misfired on such a monumentally massive scale is probably down to the brand of biscuit they had in the studio for him. I'm guessing they'd bought a family pack of ginger snaps, contrary to Hague's well known love of custard creams.Either that or his ear fell of mid-way through 'World, The Price of Eggs.'Certain synthetic sounds from 'The Republican' appear to have been taken from battery operated musical instruments found in the bargain bucket, located at the rear of 'Everything's a Pound' ... underneath the out of date gentlemen's talcum powder and last years ladies tights.At which point did Mr. Hague remember Peter Hook was also a member of the band? - Tuesday?

yeah...sounds about right bub. well said!

Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert I don't really like Brotherhood. And it's still too early for me to have a real opinion about Get Ready.

excuse me?...don't "like" brotherhood... you're friggin crazy dude!!! brotherhood is the album i'll put up against any album by any group.

Movement for me, as someone has already pointed, band trying to find identity and fail, blah blah blah. I actually thought Republic was a good record, I wouldn't consider it their worst.

My choice was Republic but in saying that, Im still a big fan and listen to it quite often.

Im a big fan of movement. I've also noticed a little something. Most of my mates who have been listening to New Order since day one think that Movement is one of NO's best ... It seems that alot of the fans in here who came on board as fans a little later (or much later in alot of cases) tend to disagree ...

Hmmm...I can see the differing points between those of you who dislike "Republic" and those of you who dislike "Movement". Well, I will go with "Movement" on this one...

Even though "Republic" is a bit of a transitional album for the band, and a bit too polished for most fans, it still has more memorable tracks than "Movement". However, I will say that "Movement" is still interesting music for what it is, even though you can still hear the band trying to tear themselves away from their darker Joy Division roots...

Originally posted by Sunrise My choice was Republic but in saying that, Im still a big fan and listen to it quite often.Im a big fan of movement. I've also noticed a little something. Most of my mates who have been listening to New Order since day one think that Movement is one of NO's best ... It seems that alot of the fans in here who came on board as fans a little later (or much later in alot of cases) tend to disagree ...

Hmmm, I've been into them since Temptation came out and I heard it someone else's walkman ('what is that song, you know, the one that goes on about someones eye colour?'), so I guess that puts me in the 'little later' catagory, and I am indeed not a big fan of 'Movement'. I had older friends (including owner of the walkman tape) who were into Joy Division from way back, but I never got into JD till after getting into New Order.

How about a 'when did you first discover N.O. poll?' or a 'first n.o. track you heard' poll

I think you might be right. I was a big JD fan and when Ceremony came out it was wonderful to know that they were still alive in some way. I loved Procession & Movement, thought Temptation & PC&L were OK and, as far as I was concerned, it was pretty much all downhill from Blue Monday onwards. A lot of JD fans I knew felt similar and ended up drifting away from the band, although they still have a soft spot for them, just not musically.

i love everything that NewOrder releases, but "republic" was a letdown, only 4 good songs on it, but i still listen to it anyway.

Originally posted by Seb Briggs Stephen Hague only over produced Republic because NO let him. Clearly they couldn't be bothered to put too much input in themselves - hence writing credits for Hague for the whole album. It's a shame coz there's some good songs on there, lyrically it's a lot better than GR for instance, it's just over polished. Movement on the other hand is rubbish.

movement rubbish!!!

brotherhood doesn't do it for me, not saying that it is bad, it is just kinda flat

My vote goes for Movement. Even thouh I like this album alot, it just doesn't sound like NO to me. It only gets played when I'm in a JD mood. I'd even rank Republic above it, since it still sounds somewhat like NO.

CANNOT ANSWER THIS

Originally posted by teleharmonium you guys are on crack, Movement kicks ass. Maybe you're not playing it loud enough ?

You aren't wrong there mate. I would say movement is their best album with PC&L being a very close second. I think it was because of this "transition" state that they were in distracted people's opinions. I think it sounds really good.

I actually voted for technique as the worst album. I haven't got round to hearing brotherhood or republic so my choice isn't credible as it stands.

Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about Movement, is the DVD wrong about the title of Chosen Time/ICB or was there a mistake on the album sleeve that still remains to this day? I would be more definite about this if the DVD hadn't kept the original mistake(?) that the taras shevchenko video did.

Originally posted by Chuckles > Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert> I don't really like Brotherhood. And it's still too early for me to have a real opinion about Get Ready.

excuse me?...don't "like" brotherhood... you're friggin crazy dude!!! brotherhood is the album i'll put up against any album by any group.

To me, Brotherhood just sounds as a missed attempt to make Low-life II. I'm not saying that it is a bad album. But it lacks the creativity of Low-life, and most songs are only marginaly interesting. That's just my very personal appreciation.

Originally posted by Stephen Bradley > Originally posted by teleharmonium> you guys are on crack, Movement kicks ass. Maybe you're not playing it loud enough ?

You aren't wrong there mate. I would say movement is their best album with PC&L being a very close second. I think it was because of this "transition" state that they were in distracted people's opinions. I think it sounds really good.

I actually voted for technique as the worst album. I haven't got round to hearing brotherhood or republic so my choice isn't credible as it stands.

Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about Movement, is the DVD wrong about the title of Chosen Time/ICB or was there a mistake on the album sleeve that still remains to this day? I would be more definite about this if the DVD hadn't kept the original mistake(?) that the taras shevchenko video did. i agree, Movement is my favorite new order album...its the "Joy Division fan's New Order album". Joy Division were a cult band, they had a cult sound, when new order made Movement, they were still a cult band, thats why Movenment is great, it might be "grey" and it mightn't be better than anything Joy Division ever did, but its better than listening to something cheery and nausiating like perfect kiss or thieves like us.

about the taras shevenko gig: on the origianl video, it had "ICB", when it was actually "chosen time", and it had "little dead" which was probably a working title for "denial".

Originally posted by Stephen Bradley > Originally posted by teleharmonium> you guys are on crack, Movement kicks ass. Maybe you're not playing it loud enough ?

Oh yeah, while I'm thinking about Movement, is the DVD wrong about the title of Chosen Time/ICB or was there a mistake on the album sleeve that still remains to this day? I would be more definite about this if the DVD hadn't kept the original mistake(?) that the taras shevchenko video did.

Part of the usual Factory in-joke, deliberately getting something wrong on the sleeve. Chosen Time is definitely Chosen Time (aka Death Rattle). Little Dead was the working title for Denial. ICB is definitely ICB and wasn't played at that gig.

Mesh is a working title for......Mesh :p

Didn't vote in this first time...but the things one has time to do at work on Christmas Eve!

Has to be Republic. It has a few excellent or at least pretty decent tracks on it - the first side, plus Special and Avalanche (can't understand why the latter is so maligned by some). But there aren't enough tracks which really stand out. Certainly don't hate the album, but as a whole I'm quite indifferent to it.

And for what it's worth, I really like Movement, despite being a post-True Faith fan. Probably prefer it to Brotherhood...it's battling with Get Ready for fourth place behind the Holy Trinity.

Movement pretty much ruined NO for me when it came out. Wasn't until Blue Monday came out that I liked anything they did and only LowLife completely converted me.

:D:D:D:D anita

Shame that Movement is so unpopular....I can understand newer fans (ie post Blue Monday) not 'getting' it, but for those of us who've known the band a bit longer, it's just part of the jigsaw of this band's history.

I like it a lot. I still go back to it often. It's a thing where you had to 'be there' to me. Like me trying to explain to a kid what being a punk rocker was like. Even in finding their way after losing Ian, though, 'Chosen Time', 'EGG' and the early '586' showed early signs of the direction they may head in.

I've often wondered if any of the songs, or at least the lyrics, on Movement date back to JD days. Some of them seem a bit profound for Bernard!

Anyway, I think 'Truth', 'The Him' and 'Doubts Even Here' are as valid as the later stuff, just different. You can like different music for different reasons.......

I agree in that Movement certainly showed some advanced ideas for the early 80s, but I still think it pales with PCL and Low-life. I'd have to say it's probably the least "instant" or engaging album, however my vote goes to Technique which was my first disappointing New Order purchase. I'd just bought Brotherhood and Republic and was let down by the ordinary vocals and mixes. I think Round & Round's 94 mix on (the best of) kicked the ass of the original. Fine Time took Barneys' vocals to another (unfortunate) level. All the way was classy pop but I think the rest was tagging along rather the leading the disco charge.

I voted for Movement. I don't hate it I just think its fairly weak in parts. I am a newer fan (97-98) so maybe that is why.

Technique their weakest? Thats very odd indeed. I actually know some people who would have been your casual New Order fans who liked the hits of Substance who thought Technique was complete garbage. I think it came from seeing New Order as a pure pop group. Even though Technique is very poppy, it has no obvious hits and is strangely for such a poppy album, completely uncompromising. Its all about feeling, which is what New Order are all about.

The only other prob I could see wrong with Technique is the old too polished argument, which I have that issue with Republic.

Cheers ALEX

Brotherhood. Too pop, too commercial...

Movement. Hardly ever played it when I bought the cassette in about 1989. Never bothered to get a CD of it in recent times either. Do I need convincing to revisit?

Brotherhood is a good album but my least favorite to listen all the way through. Whats up with all the movement bashing, I love every song on that album. Try the peel sessions.

Although Republic is generally considered a let down, I find it a lot easier to listen to than Low Life and Brotherhood. The production on Republic is a tad too polished, but most of the songs are equal to any other album they've done. If they had left off a couple of songs (possibly Spooky and Chemical in particular) it'd rank with their best albums - Technique and PCL. I think Low Life and Brotherhood both suffer from no outside input. Although there are brilliant songs on both. Movement speaks of transition and Get Ready is righteous redemption. I love them all for different reasons. Being as nearly old as the band members I bought the albums as they came out. Without intent these albums changed everything. Nothing affected the underground culture like New Order. They brought reverence and cool to fashion and trend. The fact they can still affect the world around them is the ultimate statement of their art.

Movement is a vital part of NOs history, and it was always kinda inevitable it would turn out like it did, whereas Republic just has "MISTAKE" written all over it.

Originally posted by Monkey Wrench Brotherhood is a good album but my least favorite to listen all the way through. Whats up with all the movement bashing, I love every song on that album. Try the peel sessions.

Well put, Monkey! I agree with you on this one... Just played "Movement" yesterday and it still sounds so forceful as it did back in the ol' days. Whereas "Brotherhood", though I like the record - make no mistake, sounds a bit messy here and there. The much-slaughtered "Republic" to me is a very good album too, I think the production on that one isn't so bad as some of you claim. And tell me how an album that starts with a song like "Regret" can be bad at all?! (although I suddenly think of "Bizarre Love Triangle" being part of "Brotherhood", so... err... well, skip the last argument then, but I still would pick out "Brotherhood" as their 'less great' album)

Republic,no doubt.

They themselves couldn´t talk to each other in those days.

Horrible,except for the classic Regret.

Help me the POLLS are back!:D

anyone who voted for anything besides "republic" or "get ready" is a moron. personally i went w/ the latter as once you get pas the bombastic stadium beats, there's ultimately nothing there. plus, the lyrics remind me of a poetry class for 8 year olds.

i like republic and i don't really buy the over-produced thing. i've always thought new order was over-produced compared to the lo-fi rock i usually listened to. i've taken it for granted that new order recordings are polished. it's still has some beautiful melodies and i've only really hated the last track...avalanche. Liar is still a favourite of mine and it's a pretty strong record to me.

i intially liked movement, and to me, it's one of those albums where you had to invest some time to like it better. it's not instantly likeable cuz of it's over-all down-trodden mood, but there's interesting things going on that record (i particularly liked gillian's spoken word thing on doubts even here) it's not a very confident record, but it's not atrocious either.

i don't know if i hate any of these records...i just got brotherhood on vinyl and haven't had the chance to listen to it very much. maybe the weakest record would be PCL.

I have to go with Republic. It's still better than 90% of the crap out there, but compared to the rest of New Order's output it's a train wreck, very reflective of what they were going through at the time. With the exception of Regret it barely even sounds like NO (Hook once said that Hague was trying to make them sound like the Pet Shop Boys), overproduced to the point where the melodies turn to mud. Which is a shame because there's some good songwriting on there - Times Change, Special - in spite of the fact that they were hardly ever in the same room together.

And Liar is just about the only New Order song I can't even listen to. Skip.

Technique, on the other hand, is absolutely flawless production-wise. Complex, multi-layered, and crystal clear. And this from a band notorious for the roughness of their tracks (Brotherhood was not an anomaly, just ask the anal retentives at Razormaid).

Movement wasn't entirely successful - they didn't really find their new legs until Temptation - but there's still some very good stuff on there (DNE, the second side - I like Gillian's spoken word too), and at least it sounds like them.

Get Ready was...a huge relief.

Who the hell picked Low-Life!? It's quintessential New Order!

Republic.

That`s easy- 'Movement'. Sheer rubbish

Originally posted by Chase I have to go with Republic. It's still better than 90% of the crap out there, but compared to the rest of New Order's output it's a train wreck, very reflective of what they were going through at the time(...) Who the hell picked Low-Life!? It's quintessential New Order!

Well, if I had the chance to revise my vote here, I would pick that one. Listening to all albums, I found 'Low Life' less intriguing than 'Brotherhood' (my vote). There are good songs on it, but it also has their weakest ones. And speaking of production, I wish it had the production of 'Republic'! I think the production on 'Low Life' is below par, it all sounds so thin. In short, I don't think 1985 and 1986 were the top years of New Order, musically speaking, though they released some fine singles.

Again, I can't say any one record is "the pits" in terms of New Order's back catalogue. Maybe the continuous 'best-of's deserve the title more than Republic or Movement (the top two from what I understand)

Eventhough there are tracks on republic i detest, I have to vote for it; it's just not NO quality :(

i meant adore not detest, i'm just not in my right mind

I must agree with those that say Movement is a very under rated album.

There are some quality tunes on there, DNE, Truth, Senses, Chosen Time, DEH, Denial etc. Listening to it after all these years I think it's classic New Order. Nowadays I can't really seperate the first 3 albums - Movement, PCL and Low-life - easily their best output album wise.

Technique was a great album of its time but I very rarely play it nowadays.

I mean what would people rather see live, DNE or Dream Attack, surely no contest there! With modern technology I'm sure a modern version of Senses or Chosen Time would sound magnifico. Chosen Time or Close Range? Again an easy choice for moi.

Though, to be fair, I wouldn't say that NO have ever released a crap album.

It's a close one, but:

Republic - Hideous generic background divas shrieking like harpies impaled on a spit.

Movement - No hideous generic background divas shrieking like harpies impaled on a spit.

Ridiculous... Movement and Republic by far the worst albums New Order put out? I mean, get real. Seems like Low-life is the holy cow here.

Ridiculous... Movement and Republic by far the worst albums New Order put out? I mean, get real. Seems like Low-life is the holy cow here.

Low-life has some great songs on that album albeit it's not one of their great albums. With that opinion 1966, it looks like you have taken a recent trip to Amsterdam and smoked a little... :\pimp3:

Who the hell are the two people that voted Technique as the worst!?!

People never cease to amaze me

Movement was always going to be a difficult album to do in the circumstances, so it would have got my vote were it not for someone earlier reminding me just why I dislike Republic so much more - yes - those female backing vocals really do turn the whole thing into the biggest plate of aural Parmesan I've yet come across.

(Am I the only person who also thinks Crystal was fucking ruined cos of these same female vocals?)

Does anyone here remember the 80s band Blow Monkeys? Godawful band they were.....That's what much of Republic reminds me of. .

Was a choice between Brotherhood and Republic, but Republic has Regreat and Special, so it couldnt possibly be that...

Thinking about what was out at the time in the vein of Movement, I'd take a Cure or Siouxsie record instead. Movement was a step backwards. Truth and Senses are all I can listen to off it aside from Dreams Never End, which doesn't fit on there at all.

MOVEMENT IS A FUCKING MASTERPIEC REPUBLIC AND BROTHERHOOD errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr PERSONALLY I THINK THAT 1981-FACTUS-8-1982 IS BETTER THAN ALL OF IT BUT ITS NOT HERE HENCE ITS A E.P

Hear hear...Movement is a bloody good album, of it's time and everything about it is what I associate with classic New Order - they did better themselves with the 81/82 EP, and continued to do so thru PCL (my favourite) and Low Life and the stand alone singles Thieves, Murder etc, BUT,from 87/88 onwards i kind of lost interest. I don't play technique much (and never did), however I do recognise that many like it....and appreciate why they like it.

Their first album sounds little bit musty. It's not JD nor NO. Their style isn't ready yet. There are good songs in Movement but entirety is not finish. New Order is one of the greatest bands so their "worst" records could be someone's best.

movement and republic aren't the worst albums. but then neither of them are. they are all good in one way or the other. they all have there own individual sounds. and maybe it depends on what week, or feeling or even what you've eat drank or smoked to what your playing in the moment. so i don't like this poll and its a stupid question to me.

movement is a great album( especially when its dark and wet outside and you feel withdrawn from the world). and republic has definatly got a certain vibe to it i can't put my finger on. still not many albums sound like this by other bands. it still i think had some clever melodies and interesting sounds on there and was still ahead of its time a bit at the time.

happy and upbeat: put technique, get ready, pcl, brotherhood on... sullen and distant: movement, lowlife and republic are what i would play. wanna hear no classics stick on substance and retro

power, corruption and lies is my fave album!!!!!