Obscure Official Videos

Just a quick couple of questions about official New Order videos:

1. The Discography Wikipedia page lists three versions of the World video; the standard one, the US version, and the Perfecto Mix version. Anybody seen the latter two? If so, are they much different from the standard version? Any different footage from Cannes etc? If anyone has a copy of either they're willing to let me have a look at, that would be great.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New\_Order\_discography

2. I don't know if I've dreamt this but I could have sworn that I saw a different video for one of the True Faith '94 remixes (probably the Perfecto Mix). I only saw it once, on either MTV Europe or VH1, and it was kind of a rehash of the '87 version. However, I seem to think it had a few bits of different footage to it; nothing Earth-shattering, just unused pogo-ing men, syncing of the video to the remix etc. As I said, I really can't say that I saw this for definite. It's such a dim memory, I'm possibly imagining it. Has anybody else seen it? Again, anybody have a copy?

Ta.

US version, possibly filmed during the 93 tour at soundchecks and at shows.

World

Cool. Many thanks for this. Never seen it before.

Anybody know about the other two? i.e. the videos to the Perfecto Mixes of World and True Faith '94.

The funny thing about World is Hooky is not only Hendrixing Hage but miming - to something he didn't even play. He wrote the bassline but it was fed into a computer and his own contribution was lost in the final mix. You may be thinking of those TF snippets between the vids on the VHS 'Best Of' (aka 'Not Again'). Does anyone know why the BM video never made any of the compilations? I once read it was official and they had enuff opportunities (Substance, Best Of, NOStory, Item). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daDxHyXpL-I 93 was a weird time to be a fan. You'd read in the music press about 'NO the greatest band since the 60s, Hooky the Viking rockpig, Bernard the new Eno' etc - and then listen to the bland, mediocre 'Republic'. 'NOStory' turned my stomach, especially the line about Ian's suicide. If I'd suffered such a trauma and some pretentious journo wanker said, 'That's cos he was on the jagged edge between the pleasure and the pain', I'd rip the fucker's head off.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Does anyone know why the BM video never made any of the compilations? I once read it was official and they had enuff opportunities (Substance, Best Of, NOStory, Item). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daDxHyXpL-I

Band who named themselves after a Nazi enforced Jewish sex slave division changes their name to New Order implying further 'political' undertones, makes a track with machine gun drums & fighter jet sound effects and gives it a video with troops marching, tanks rolling, bombs being dropped etc.

If this were to happen in 2017, there would probably be "think pieces" written, boycott-calls, petitions, anti NO hash-tags etc. Just me?

Incidentally who's the guy in the shades at 1.35? Also, I haven't seen this vid for a while. It looks like they were still playing with the UP artwork ideas circa 3.09-3.14 and 3.22-3.26. Possibly influencing Peter Hook's artwork for his recent UP live record release.

I once read one of the 7 reasons (how do I do it? More importantly, why?) Revenge never took off was their dabbling in (Surf) Nazi / Slave imagery, combination of synth and rock, and Hooky's contrasting yob / thinker pose. I thought it was just cos they were total and utter fucking shit.
The Nazi thing always bemused me. I can't imagine Gillian in a rally somehow.

Had forgotten about the '? Best Of' video. Did it have True Faith interstitials between videos (a la The Happy One on Substance 1989)? Seems to ring a bell.

As regards the insensitivity of journalists, I'm guessing a certain degree of desensitisation occurred with Sumner, Hook and Morris. Most people face trauma with sympathetic friends and family around them; people who think better of asking you difficult questions when you're hurting. New Order have to face the inevitable Ian questions every bloody interview they do.

If they hadn't learned to shut themselves off from the inane and insensitive questions early on, they'd have probably assaulted several journalists by now.

The guy in the shades looks a little like Lou Reed. Which makes no sense whatsoever.

And I liked Revenge. Crazy, I know. 😁

Revenge's Gun World Porn was good, but by then it was practically Monaco. Yes, there are TF moments between the vids on Best Of (stoooopid name cos it's every vid). I remember cos I was getting bored of shelling out for the same paultry tracks again and again, and these snippets were the only surprise. It always amazes me how every artcle brings up JD. I'd like to think it tells you something about JD's greatrness, but it probably tells you more about NO's meagreness. I can't imagine Hooky being lauded as ex-Revenge. Plus most fans have been interested sincde the 80s, so it's not exactly breaking news. PS Mel C.

Those interstitials are possibly it, then. Could've sworn I saw a proper Perfecto video though. I'll shall have to crank up the Best Of video and see if things seem familiar.

You're right about one thing with Revenge at least; flirting with certain imagery probably didn't help their acceptance. The SkinTwo stuff and names such as Surf Nazi, Fag Hag, Pineapple Face, Bleachman, Gun World Porn and Little Pig probably didn't ingratiate themselves with too many people.

Can't imagine a song with the title 'Fag Hag' reaching number 1, even if it had sounded like Bohemian Rhapsody (which it didn't).

Fucking Hell, a New Order fan actually agrees with me on something. I must be losing it. I recently found these, um, gems. I was amazed cos they're clearly official but I'd never seen them, and I was an obsessive in that period: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qn2lztDdsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKKh2hJJONA I refuse to talk about menstruation. Period.

Haven't seen those two videos for years. I actually have them on a video tape I bought from The Record Peddler on Swan Street (I think) in Manchester in the mid 90s. There were other NO-related tracks on it too, IIRC, including Tasty Fish video, possibly some Electronic ones and the videos for 7 Reasons and Jesus...I Love You (both exactly the same video, just different songs played over the top). There was also a video on it to one of the remixes of Pineapple Face (Big Day, maybe), that differed to the standard video (still fetish stuff, but different scenes).

Thanks for linking to those two, though. Has been twenty years plus since I last saw them.

I remember seeing this on the Beeb too. I'm convinced that back then I had more fun tracking down stuff than actually listening to / watching the mediocre crap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59piyr7DxCs

Yeah, that's the one. The 'Jesus...I Love You' video is exactly the same. I remember feeling slightly ripped off when buying that bootleg video to find that two of the ten or so videos on it (all ripped from Factory promo tapes) were exactly the same.

Tiny clip on the Ozone's 1990ish interview with New Order (actually just Bernard, Steve and Gilly).

PS The mix-to-vid thing sounds like something Rage TV used to do.

Oh, right. So they used to chop videos around to fit certain mixes?

Maybe that was it.

I meant Rockamerica https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l22755WHSG4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1CfAaReOq8

There was a video i think for True Faith 94 that was a mash up of every other NO video (BLT,TPK etc) but wasn't there also another slightly different version of the True Faith video on the 'International' compilation or something? It had more footage on it from Glastonbury 1987 than the original TF clip? Or was it on the 'Total' one? If you put the CD in your pc drive you could access the video or something.I don't know because i never bought International or Total.Just recall reading something about it.

Never saw that alternate vid to World before.Interesting theory by Debaser about why the BM vid never made it on to any of the official hits VHS or DVD, re it might cause offence.I just thought it was because it was never quite an official New Order video and there was some licensing issue though didn't Steve Morris just knock the video up on his computer around the time the track was in the charts in 1983? I remember seeing it on The Old Grey Whistle Test late one night in about 1984 but never saw it again for years, possibly not until YouTube started in the noughties.Bit crap how the vid isn't for the whole track though.

I'm sure there's loads of Revenge videos i've never seen and i don't particularly want to or have any inclination to search for them because i always thought Revenge were utter garbage.

Didn't know about the version of International that you mentioned, so thanks for that. On investigation, it appears that there is a version with a bonus DVD containing Blue Monday from 511, a shorter version of the TPK video and the version of True Faith you mentioned, i.e. a slightly extended version with additional live footage.

Perhaps that True Faith 'mash-up' version of their videos is what I'm thinking of. Don't suppose anyone can direct me to a copy of this?

I think the Blue Monday video was fairly obscure back in the day. It was on the Factory 'Shorts' video and was shown on the 'Rock Of Europe' documentary that showed all their other videos (back in '88 or so). I think you're right about Steve making it himself. Maybe he made it in case TOTP again refused to let them play live; at least they'd have something to show instead (as they were still dead against miming).

I never really understand all the hatred for Revenge. No, it wasn't exactly supreme quality material but there were some bright spots (Jesus...I Love You, Pineapple Face, Big Bang, Deadbeat, State Of Shock). Also, when comparing it to some of the dross that was in the charts at the time, it was a lot better. Generally speaking the early nineties were bloody awful (excepting certain established bands like NO and DM, some grunge and some Madchester stuff). This was the era of Jive Bunny and SAW, remember. Even the Indie stuff seemed to be considerably poorer than had come out just a few years earlier, (again certain bands excepted - St Etienne, Pixies, MBV, Cocteaus etc.)

As previously mentioned I think the imagery worked against them. Also, Hook's previously impressive work were always going to make comparisons seem unfavourable. Finally, the tracks, especially Jesus...I Love You and the LP, suffered from being absolutely chock full of stuff. They really needed to strip the tracks down a bit. I still play OTP relatively frequently.

The best revenge and Monaco songs add up to a fine playlist.

perspexorange wrote: Didn't know about the version of International that you mentioned, so thanks for that. On investigation, it appears that there is a version with a bonus DVD containing Blue Monday from 511, a shorter version of the TPK video and the version of True Faith you mentioned, i.e. a slightly extended version with additional live footage.

Perhaps that True Faith 'mash-up' version of their videos is what I'm thinking of. Don't suppose anyone can direct me to a copy of this?

I think the Blue Monday video was fairly obscure back in the day. It was on the Factory 'Shorts' video and was shown on the 'Rock Of Europe' documentary that showed all their other videos (back in '88 or so). I think you're right about Steve making it himself. Maybe he made it in case TOTP again refused to let them play live; at least they'd have something to show instead (as they were still dead against miming).

I never really understand all the hatred for Revenge. No, it wasn't exactly supreme quality material but there were some bright spots (Jesus...I Love You, Pineapple Face, Big Bang, Deadbeat, State Of Shock). Also, when comparing it to some of the dross that was in the charts at the time, it was a lot better. Generally speaking the early nineties were bloody awful (excepting certain established bands like NO and DM, some grunge and some Madchester stuff). This was the era of Jive Bunny and SAW, remember. Even the Indie stuff seemed to be considerably poorer than had come out just a few years earlier, (again certain bands excepted - St Etienne, Pixies, MBV, Cocteaus etc.)

As previously mentioned I think the imagery worked against them. Also, Hook's previously impressive work were always going to make comparisons seem unfavourable. Finally, the tracks, especially Jesus...I Love You and the LP, suffered from being absolutely chock full of stuff. They really needed to strip the tracks down a bit. I still play OTP relatively frequently.

Ah, ok there was a bonus DVD with one version or a limited edition version of International? That rings a bell now and probably where i read about the alternate video of TF with the extra Glastonbury 87 footage.As i said, i never bought International but i'd be interested to see the different TF video somehow somewhere.I don't know where you can find the mash up video for True Faith 94, i'm sure i saw it once, maybe on the Item DVD which i have but don't have to hand.

Revenge: the only song i ever really liked was Amsterdam which i think was a cover version anyway.Maybe i should give them a second listen a second chance.But yeah, they were no worse than a lot of early 90s music i guess.Like you say, even some of the early 90s Indie stuff was dire compared to mid 80s Indie.Along with various early 90s dance stuff like for example K-klass's Rhythm Is A Mystery the indie i listened to back then was stuff like the Cocteaus' Heaven Or Las Vegas album, House Of Love and Slowdive,but yeah there wasn't an awful lot of great Indie stuff around that time.I never really gave Pixies or My Bloody Valentine much of a listen though to be fair, maybe i should of.I remember loving a lot of Slowdive stuff back in about 1991-92 but listened to it again not so long back and it sounded absolutely awful, crap.Strange.Maybe their stuff just didn't age well though i think they're making a comeback now, heard one new song recently.

Sounds like we liked similar bands. Cocteaus, K-Klass & House Of Love were high points of the era. Never really listened to Slowdive apart from the occasional track. I shall have to give them another listen.

To be fair, I wasn't a massive fan of everything by Pixies or MBV or genres such as shoegaze, grunge or baggy. But I still liked quite a bit of it and it was certainly the best indie out there at the time (especially as New Order were so quiet during this period).

Generally speaking though, it really was a fairly poor period in music. In comparison, there was so much good stuff in the 80s, especially indie and, to be fair, I quite liked the whole Indie explosion (inc. Britpop) in the mid-90s (although it got a little weary quite quickly). It was just the four or five years between that was a bit of a drag.

I think Revenge are worthy of another listen. No, they aren't going to set your world alight, but we have bands like JD / NO for that. 😊 Instead, it was a pretty reasonable effort to cross dance with rock. Not at all bad; just not that memorable (although I bloody love Big Bang and Jesus...I Love You). I have to say, on balance, I probably prefer Revenge to Monaco, although I liked them too.

The Version 2.0 of One True Passion is pretty good and it contains pretty much everything put out by the band (minus most of the remixes). I was a little annoyed that they shuffled the track order, as I was used to the running order, but overall it's a fairly nice collection, reflective of their output.

To be fair, most of the discs put out by LTM / FBN / Disques De Crepuscule are good and I have a number of them.

keepitcoming wrote: The best revenge and Monaco songs add up to a fine playlist.

Totally agree. The two bands produced some good stuff between them.

I remember seeing True Faith video in 1995: it was the original video, intercepted with footage from Run 2, Spooky and other videos. I've never seen it ever since and YouTube is helpless. Maybe some MTV Europe promo for the best of?

I think I saw one similar version, but not quite the same.

There are three problems with Revenge:

1. There is no song structure. Ernest Hemingway, an avid fan of New Order and Hooky in partcular, wrote he would churn out 91 pages of shit for one page of masterpiece. Hooky just leaves everything in.
2. The words are too pretentious. There's a tendency to use abstract terminology over direct image-building.
3. They are total and utter fucking shit. Here's something for hard core fans only: http://www.worldinmotion.net/revenge/interviews/brianwhittaker.htm I love the way he's so critical of other bands when his own CV is so stunning.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Here's something for hard core fans only: http://www.worldinmotion.net/revenge/interviews/brianwhittaker.htm I love the way he's so critical of other bands when his own CV is so stunning.

Fuck, I have to get up in 5 hours and yet I went down this rabbit hole. And I'm not a Revenge hardcore fan. I could never come to grips with their porn image.

Fotzepolitic wrote: There was a video i think for True Faith 94 that was a mash up of every other NO video .

Yes. The official press release read, 'Fuck it, fuck, oh fuck, we spent enough money to support a starving continent on these four lazy Wankunian fuckers but all they done is give us one album they'd already finished and it was still shit so let's rerererererererelease every piece of shite they ever did in a way that any other band would be massacred for but we're OK cos this is New Order and they're awesome. (signed) London.'

Fotzepolitic wrote: There was a video i think for True Faith 94 that was a mash up of every other NO video (BLT,TPK etc) but wasn't there also another slightly different version of the True Faith video on the 'International' compilation or something? It had more footage on it from Glastonbury 1987 than the original TF clip? Or was it on the 'Total' one? If you put the CD in your pc drive you could access the video or something.I don't know because i never bought International or Total.Just recall reading something about it.

Just got hold of a copy of the 2-Disc CD+DVD version of International. Crikey, it was difficult getting a copy. I ordered it from Amazon first and they sent me the single disc edition. Then I ordered it on eBay and the (power) seller there also sent me the single disc edition.

It appears that both the 1 CD and the 1 CD + 1 DVD editions have exactly the same catalogue number. So, even if you order something listed as 'CD+DVD, 2 discs etc.', there seems to be a good chance that you'll be sent the single disc edition (there's probably a Hell of a lot more of them about too). Anyway, third time lucky, I finally got it from a dealer on Discogs, after asking him to confirm it was definitely the two-disc edition.

Anyway, you're correct about True Faith being a different edit of the video. It has three or four different clips of the dancers (not long clips; just a second or two each clip). However, as you rightly mentioned there are a number of additional live (Glastonbury, I presume) clips that are quite interesting. These include clips of Hooky that contain more than just his knee-cap and some of Barney throwing both his guitar (his Strat, I think) and a speaker. Very rock 'n' roll.

Also, The Perfect Kiss video on the disc is edited quite considerably and misses out the second verse (they probably chose that part due to the ole' 'pleasure zone' line ).

The only other video is Blue Monday from Finsbury Park. I don't think this has been edited in any way, but it might have been.

All quite interesting nonetheless.

perspexorange wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: There was a video i think for True Faith 94 that was a mash up of every other NO video (BLT,TPK etc) but wasn't there also another slightly different version of the True Faith video on the 'International' compilation or something? It had more footage on it from Glastonbury 1987 than the original TF clip? Or was it on the 'Total' one? If you put the CD in your pc drive you could access the video or something.I don't know because i never bought International or Total.Just recall reading something about it.

Just got hold of a copy of the 2-Disc CD+DVD version of International. Crikey, it was difficult getting a copy. I ordered it from Amazon first and they sent me the single disc edition. Then I ordered it on eBay and the (power) seller there also sent me the single disc edition.

It appears that both the 1 CD and the 1 CD + 1 DVD editions have exactly the same catalogue number. So, even if you order something listed as 'CD+DVD, 2 discs etc.', there seems to be a good chance that you'll be sent the single disc edition (there's probably a Hell of a lot more of them about too). Anyway, third time lucky, I finally got it from a dealer on Discogs, after asking him to confirm it was definitely the two-disc edition.

Anyway, you're correct about True Faith being a different edit of the video. It has three or four different clips of the dancers (not long clips; just a second or two each clip). However, as you rightly mentioned there are a number of additional live (Glastonbury, I presume) clips that are quite interesting. These include clips of Hooky that contain more than just his knee-cap and some of Barney throwing both his guitar (his Strat, I think) and a speaker. Very rock 'n' roll.

Also, The Perfect Kiss video on the disc is edited quite considerably and misses out the second verse (they probably chose that part due to the ole' 'pleasure zone' line ).

The only other video is Blue Monday from Finsbury Park. I don't think this has been edited in any way, but it might have been.

All quite interesting nonetheless.

Interesting.Good to know i hadn't imagined it all.Thanks for the info.