Thoughts about the Sub-Culture remix 12"

Perspexorange proposed a question for New Order "What’s the reason for the Sub-Culture single not receiving a proper sleeve?"

The given answer is that Saville didn't like the remix and didn't want to design a sleeve. I forget where I heard this initially, although I think it was sometime around the reveal of Waiting For The Sirens' Call cover, and how controversial that was with a big orange NO on the front. But as was pointed out, Saville often designed the sleeves without hearing the music. Sometimes he didn't even know the title. So this may be a dubious or revisionist answer.

My thoughts are that he *did* design a proper sleeve, we just don't perceive it as such.

1. As stated in his book, if you follow art history through Saville's sleeve designs, everything prior to 1985 was looking back. He considers the Low-life era the start of 20th century design in his work. The Perfect Kiss utilizes all the elements of modern printing: a grey (silver) sleeve, with cyan, magenta, yellow, or black inner sleeves - CYMK being the necessary colors to create all other colors in printing. Low-life itself uses four individual portraits of the band members, with four alternate portraits used in the cassette versions. Using a photo again for the cover of Sub-Culture would detract from the other work, so he reduced it down to the two most basic elements - black and white.

2. New Order was still considered an indie band, but trying to make serious inroads to dance music culture. Most club DJs are used a 12" in a plain black or white die-cut sleeve. The simple black sleeve for Sub-Culture harkens back to the black die-cut sleeve for Blue Monday, which was their biggest success on the dance floor up to that point - although it's fair to point out Sub-Culture was printed on higher quality stock than a standard issue die-cut sleeve. It's a bit glossy, which makes it stand out. That's a deliberate design choice. The black and white label also gives it the feel of a promo 12", and club DJs love to be the first to play anything. So I think it was designed to make it look a bit like a promo to try and gain traction among DJs.

This is also a very Saville progression: all of the elements necessary for full color present (but not utilized as such) on The Perfect Kiss, band portraits on Low-life, black and white on Sub-Culture. He made it so simple that we don't even think of it as design, but taken in context of the other releases from 1985, it fits.

This is a pretty interesting theory and I like the idea that Saville did put some effort into his design decision.

This seems logical considering the care put into the typography, which I think is rather nice.

I definitely agree that it is possibly ‘revisionist’ of Saville to say that certain sleeves were done without effort. Maybe certain sleeve ideas just ‘didn’t work’ like he wanted them to, and made the story fit the reaction.

I like your theory about Low Life and the accompanying sleeves. It certainly makes sense that the minimal ‘Sub-Culture’ sleeve kind of fits with other sleeves of the period. It makes you wonder if, for instance, Saville had been doing this style of sleeve around the ‘Substance’ / ‘True Faith’ / ‘TBTHOG’ period instead of ‘Low Life’, whether one of those releases may have got the design that ‘Sub-Culture’ got.

If so, and if ‘True Faith’ had got the ‘SC’ design (and your theory is correct), I’m guessing people may have ‘understood’ this design decision (based on the strength of ‘True Faith’ / ‘1963’, which couldn’t have been ‘hated’ by Saville).

Interesting theory, anyway.

Think the story about Saville not doing the sleeve had been around for years, long before WFTSC.

Yeah you may have a point £50, about it was actually designed. Makes sense.

Sub-Culture is also the first single pulled from an album (as opposed to being released alongside one, or as a stand-alone single). The black and white design suggested "this is a part of Low-life, not its own thing."

I remember first hearing the 12" remix on John Peel's show one night a week or two before it was released.Listened on headphones and at the end of the 6 minutes or so i felt like i'd been battered from pillar to post.God, what a mess was my first reaction.And what's with all those newly added backing vocals? It all sounded completely chaotic, and not in a good way.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I remember first hearing the 12" remix on John Peel's show one night a week or two before it was released.Listened on headphones and at the end of the 6 minutes or so i felt like i'd been battered from pillar to post.God, what a mess was my first reaction.And what's with all those newly added backing vocals? It all sounded completely chaotic, and not in a good way.

The night before Pumped Full Of Drugs was filmed, NO also played that hall in Tokyo. Sub-Culture is the second song, and the sequencer starts at the wrong time. It has that screwed up, off-kilter baseline that ended up in the remix.

I think the current live version, which uses elements from both the original arrangement and the remix, is the best its ever sounded.

50 Pound Note wrote: Sub-Culture is also the first single pulled from an album (as opposed to being released alongside one, or as a stand-alone single). The black and white design suggested "this is a part of Low-life, not its own thing."

why is 'the perfect kiss' not the first. it was from the album, was it actually released may 13, the same day as the album. in the US, the 12 inch came out first.

also, i don't buy the blank cover theory. i think he just didn't get any ideas in time for the release, and was just able to work out the typography for it.

the uk 7 inch label, die cut sleeve:

the uk 12 inch label, die cut sleeve:

the us 12 inch label, die cut sleeve:

also with a sticker:

the japanese 12 inch with obi:

the italian 12 inch label, die cut sleeve:

the spanish 12 inch label, die cut sleeve:

the german 12 inch label, die cut sleeve:

the canadian 12 inch cover with sticker, die cut sleeve, and label:

looks like the promo labels:

the australian 12 inch has the same die cut sleeve, with the white label, and this sticker:

the new zealand 12 inch label with poor print quality:

later -1

negative1 wrote:

50 Pound Note wrote: Sub-Culture is also the first single pulled from an album (as opposed to being released alongside one, or as a stand-alone single). The black and white design suggested "this is a part of Low-life, not its own thing."

why is 'the perfect kiss' not the first. it was from the album, was it actually released may 13, the same day as the album. in the US, the 12 inch came out first.

In UK TPK and Low-Life were released on the same day, 13.05.85.Is that classed as "alongside", or "pulled" ? I don't know.

Fotzepolitic wrote: In UK TPK and Low-Life were released on the same day, 13.05.85.Is that classed as "alongside", or "pulled" ? I don't know.

Personally, I class that as "alongside", because you had to buy the 12" to get the full version. They hadn't intended to include an edit on the album.

50poundnote wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: In UK TPK and Low-Life were released on the same day, 13.05.85.Is that classed as "alongside", or "pulled" ? I don't know.

Personally, I class that as "alongside", because you had to buy the 12" to get the full version. They hadn't intended to include an edit on the album.

Do you mean they made an error and the 12 inch TPK version should have made the album or that the track (in any version) was meant to be omitted altogether?

is it bro wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: In UK TPK and Low-Life were released on the same day, 13.05.85.Is that classed as "alongside", or "pulled" ? I don't know.

Personally, I class that as "alongside", because you had to buy the 12" to get the full version. They hadn't intended to include an edit on the album.

Do you mean they made an error and the 12 inch TPK version should have made the album or that the track (in any version) was meant to be omitted altogether?

I suspect As it is When it Was would have been the track that The Perfect Kiss supplanted. It had been showing up in their live sets along with the other Low-Life tracks over the previous months.

Andy wrote:

is it bro wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: In UK TPK and Low-Life were released on the same day, 13.05.85.Is that classed as "alongside", or "pulled" ? I don't know.

Personally, I class that as "alongside", because you had to buy the 12" to get the full version. They hadn't intended to include an edit on the album.

Do you mean they made an error and the 12 inch TPK version should have made the album or that the track (in any version) was meant to be omitted altogether?

I suspect As it is When it Was would have been the track that The Perfect Kiss supplanted. It had been showing up in their live sets along with the other Low-Life tracks over the previous months.

No, it was Let's Go.

Man, I wish 'Let's Go' had been included.

However much I love 'The Perfect Kiss', I'm sure I'm not alone in not much liking the album version. It's just a neutered animal, in my opinion. Far better to have left it as a 'single only' release and let us bask in the glory of the full 12", without that limp LP version appearing on various compilation LPs, radio shows, playlists etc.

'Let's Go' is also, of course, bloody brilliant and should've got a 'proper' release.

If they had've included it, I wonder if the band were planning on a) keeping the track order (i.e. 'Let's Go' to be nestled in between 'Love Vigilantes' and 'This Time Of Night') and b) whether they were planning on including the track as an instrumental or as a fully-formed vocal version.

Johnny James wrote: No, it was Let's Go.

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that Let's Go was left off because it's musically very similar to Sooner Than You Think, and they opted to go with the one utilizing more electronics. I hope we get the finished version intended for the album in the Low-life box!

The hilarious thing about 'Let's Go' was they thought it was too weak even for an album, but ended up releasing it FOUR times: Salvation, 1963-95, US Best Of, Brotherhood remaster. And people are still convinced there are unreleased tracks in the vaults...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: And people are still convinced there are unreleased tracks in the vaults...

*cough* The Happy One *cough*

But probably not much more than that.

The Happy One got an official TV airing, a release of sorts on Substance 89, and 'proper' release on Palatine Lane three years later - not bad for a track they couldn't be arsed to finish. Rediscovering the Beatles, I'm amazed how many actual songs they knocked out in under a decade. Even in NO's '''''heyday''''' they once considered blowing the cobwebs off two tracks and an instrumental a decent year's output.

The complete Happy One has never had an official release. Hooky performing it by himself on a TV show is not the same. The snippets used on the Substance video collection are the same as appeared on the Palatine Road promo.

Yeah, but it's still good exposure for a song they couldn't even be arsed to complete. Some bands have albums' worth of unreleased material locked away... New Order's output has always been meagre, as witness the difficulty in finding 25 'classics' back at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=4393#post27511 - amazing that they've been around for nearly 40 years and I've been a fan since '89, but I was buggered after the obvious choices. I could probably namecheck 25 Beatles classics fom one year alone. But I won't. That's the kind of thing Blackadder fans do. PS Another case in point: 'Video 586', 20 minutes of self-confessed 'pap', but it came out on Featuremist, 12" / CD in '98, and even the lavish 'New Order Presents Be Music' set. Has there ever been a band with such a crap newbie-to-oldie ratio? Yet their mystique remains...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Has there ever been a band with such a crap newbie-to-oldie ratio? Yet their mystique remains...

Yeah, Joy Division.

I love that one... 'The great thing about New Order is they carried on after Joy Division. They NEVER looked back...' 'Ceremony' / 'IALP' covers JD on 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease... 1980 Still... Rereleased JD Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 2, compiled into Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, later included in Complete BBC Sessions... 88 Atmosphere, Substance... 93 London reissues, NOStory includes JD but no 'solo project'... 95 LWTUA remix, Permanent... 97 Heart and Soul box set... Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box)... 2007 CD remasters, documentary interviews, Control OST... 2008 Best of JD... 2010 + / - singles box set... 2011 Total: From JD to NO... CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl... NO played JD sporadically through the 80s and since 98 every gig has included at least three JD tracks (the Peel gig had nothing else). And as for The Light... It's a potent message New Order: Don't look back. Move on. How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I love that one... 'The great thing about New Order is they carried on after Joy Division. They NEVER looked back...' 'Ceremony' / 'IALP' covers JD on 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease... 1980 Still... Rereleased JD Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 2, compiled into Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, later included in Complete BBC Sessions... 88 Atmosphere, Substance... 93 London reissues, NOStory includes JD but no 'solo project'... 95 LWTUA remix, Permanent... 97 Heart and Soul box set... Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box)... 2007 CD remasters, documentary interviews, Control OST... 2008 Best of JD... 2010 + / - singles box set... 2011 Total: From JD to NO... CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl... NO played JD sporadically through the 80s and since 98 every gig has included at least three JD tracks (the Peel gig had nothing else). And as for The Light... It's a potent message New Order: Don't look back. Move on. How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know.

Are you suggesting that they tend to repeat themselves?

Thanks, but don't make jokes about Melanie C. 'This is a band that rarely looks backwards.' This one always cracks me up.

First single JD covers 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease Still Rereleased JD first Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 12" 2, Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, included in Complete BBC Sessions Substance 87 Atmosphere 88, Substance 88; Blue Monday 88 London reissues 93; 'NOStory' DVD, Radio 1 and MTV retros; London remix Spooky when the band aren't even talking to each other True Faith-94, Best Of 1963-95, Blue Monday-95, Rest Of, Love Will Tear Us Apart-95, Permanent Everything's Gone Green Advent Video 586 Heart and Soul Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box) International, Retro 12" x 12" Best remixes (didital) Singles 2005, Singles 2016 Best of Electronic JD CD remasters; JD DVD interviews The Best Of JD 2008 2009 fucked up NO remasters, 'corrected' remasters, remastered again in 2015 Total

• / - JD CD remasters remastered for vinyl LTM resissue Revenge and both Other Two LPs (all three crap in the first place) Current projects, three years on from last 'un: revisiting a JD track, and possibly a fourth box set

How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know.

Thanks to a brand new LP (just 2 years ago, enough for the Beatles to whop out 4) Bernard is ''''''ready to embrace the past''''''. That's a first...

JD for first single (released in 4 formats) Still Rereleased NO Peel Session 12", 2nd 12", compiled into LP, rerereleased with '''''new''''' sleeve Rereleased JD Peel Session 12", 2nd 12", compiled into LP, rerereleased in ''''''new cover'''''', included in Complete BBC Sessions Substance 87 Atmosphere 88, Substance 88, BM 88 92 BBC gig from 5 years ago, rereleased in '''''''''''''''new artwork''''''''''''''' 93 London complete reissues, 'NOSory' VHS (later DVD), Radio 1 and MTV documentaries True Faith 94, Best of NO 94, Love Will Tear Us Apart 95, Permanent: Best of JD 95, 1963 95, BM 95, Rest of 95, complete reissues but mid-price this time Heart and Soul box set 97 Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box) International, Retro CDs remastered so shittily they're remastered again and still crap (can I have my money back then?) Collection DVD (later rereleased with NO Story as 'Item'), Singles, '''''corrected''''' Singles (can I have my money back again?) Best of Electronic JD DVD, Control OST, double CD remasters 2008 The Best Of JD, Glasgow DVD retro

• / - singles box set Total: From JD to NO (a revelation) Chapter and Verse CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl Much-touted MILF uses material up to almost 40 years old No forthcoming new releases but maybe another box set

Time to look back now, eh?

Creative people like to do something new: Blue Monday 83 88 95, True Faith 87 94, 1963 87 95; Substance, Best Of, Rest Of, International, Retro, Singles, remasters, 'corrected' (but still shit) remasters, Total, '''corrected''' Singles rerelease... First single JD covers 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease; Still; Rereleased JD first Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 2, Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, included in Complete BBC Sessions; Atmosphere 88, Substance 88; London reissues 93, 'NOSory' DVD, Radio 1 and MTV retros; Love Will Tear Us Apart 95, Permanent 95; Heart and Soul box set; Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box); CD remastered reissues; JD DVD interviews; The Best Of 2008; + / - box set; CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl... Best of Electronic.

ALWAYS LOOK FORWARD... Blue Monday 83 88 95, True Faith 87 94, 1963 87 95... Substance, Best Of, Rest Of, International, Retro, Singles, remasters, 'corrected' (but still shit) remasters, Total, '''corrected''' Singles rerelease... What's their secret? How do they do it? I guess we'll never know. NEVER look back, not even to JD: First single JD covers 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease... Still JD compilation... Rereleased JD first Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 2, compiled into Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, included in Complete BBC Sessions... Atmosphere 88, Substance 88... London reissues 93, 'NOSory' DVD, Radio 1 and MTV documentaries include JD... Love Will Tear Us Apart - 95, Permanent: Best of JD 95... Heart and Soul box set 97... Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box)... CD remastered reissues... JD DVD interviews, Control OST... The Best Of 2008... Total: From JD to NO... + / - singles box set... CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl... NO played JD sporadically through the 80s and since 94 every gig has included at least three JD tracks (the Peel gig had nothing else). It's a potent message Bernard. NEVER look back. Well done. PS Best of Electronic

People think I'm jolly beastly about New Order, but that's awfully unfair. I admire their indefatiguable skill in knocking out those hits - BM, TF / 1963, BM 88, TF 94, 1963 95, BM 95 - and ever-original slew of albums: Substance, Best Of, Rest Of, International, Retro, Singles, remasters, 'corrected' (but still shit) remasters, Total, '''corrected''' Singles rerelease... What's their secret? How do they do it? I guess we'll never know. But the real reason we adore New Order is they Fearlessly put their JD past well and truly behind them. NEW Order, right? It's an inspiring message to us all: Forget the past. Look ahead, look on, NEVER look back. Hence: First single JD covers 7", 12", rereleased 12", Record Day JD versions rerelease Still JD compilation Rereleased JD first Peel Session 12" 1, Peel session 2, comiled into Peel Sessions LP, rereleased LP in new cover, included in Complete BBC Sessions Atmosphere 88, Substance 88 London reissues 93 93's 'NOSory' DVD, Radio 1 and MTV documentaries include JD Love Will Tear Us Apart - 95, Permanent: Best of JD 95 Heart and Soul box set 97 Remastered Preston live, Bains Douches live, Fractured Box (Preston live and Bains Douches live), Re Fractured Box (including Preston live, Les Bains Douches live so Fractured Box) CD remastered reissues JD DVD interviews Control OST The Best Of 2008 Total: From JD to NO

• / - singles box set CD remastered reissues remastered on vinyl NO played JD sporadically through the 80s and since 98 every gig has included at least three JD tracks (the Peel gig had nothing else). Since 2009 Hook has toured JD all over the world and written his 'autobiography' only on JD... It's a potent message: Look to the future guys. Never look back, and certainly don't make a millipenny out of it. RESPECT! What an inspiring, endlessly self-recreating, AWESOME band.

I'll take your word for it. There are only so many times you can retread the same ground.

I've come to the conclusion that the majors fuck these things up on purpose to make life more fun / frustrating for the hard-core fans. I'm looking forward to: 'Singles, 2013, released on 30 February 2062: One of the songs will be edited by 6.295 seconds to give forum users something to talk about. The Perfect Kiss will be the album edit which is shit to irritate people. Blue Monday will have the same glitches as those wondrous remasters so the people who shelled out for them will know. True Faith will be replaced by Ruined In A Day - Bogle Mix for no reason at all. Turn will be listed but replaced by Ruined In A Day - Bogle Mix for no reason at all too.'

Yo, I’ll tell you what you want, though it isn’t worth a wank, So tell me what I want, it ain’t really worth a wank, I’ll tell you what you want, and it isn’t worth a wank, So tell me what I want, it ain’t worth just half a wank, You wanna, you wanna, I wanna, I wanna, you wanna really Really really wanna ‘Atmosphere’.

If you want the future, live in the past, If you wanna get new songs, shove it up your ass, So just keep wasting your precious time, Put old shit together, piss away your dimes.

I’ll tell you what you want, though it isn’t worth a wank, So tell me what I want, it ain’t really worth a wank, You wanna, you wanna, I wanna, I wanna, you wanna really Really wanna ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’.

If you wanna be fucked over, you gotta buy ‘Temptation’ (or ‘Lost Sirens’), Reissues forever, bonus on the end, If you wanna buy another, you have got to give, Give us bucks for ‘Closer’, ‘cos that’s the way we swizz.

Don’t be thick, you’re a twat.

Blue Monday, ‘How It Feels…’ Blue Monday 88 too, is this shit real? (It can’t be real? Blue Monday again, for ’95. True Faith’s really buggered, fresh for ’95.

Yo, I’ll tell you what you want, though it isn’t worth a wank, So tell me what I want, it ain’t really worth a wank, You wanna, you wanna, I wanna, I wanna, you wanna really Really really wanna remix ‘Liar’.

If you wanna be fucked over, you gotta buy ‘New Dawn Fades’ (or ‘Love Less’ or ‘Mesh’), This shit lasts forever, fuck ‘Where Will It End?’ If you wanna be a fucker, you have got ‘Sunrise’, ‘Morning Night And Day’ and ‘All The Way’, ‘The Him’.

‘New Order Story’ on DVD, then ‘Movement’ on CD, Then ‘Get Ready’ on MP3, We got ‘Hurt’ in the place and ‘Technique’ in your face, We got ‘Novelty’, three versions, no freebie, ‘Lost Sirens’ didn’t come for free, it was real late, Jeez , And ‘Colony’, or ‘Jetstream’, Slam your money down and waste another pound, Slam your wonga down, and piss away your pounds.

If you wanna be fucked over, you gotta purchase ‘Revenge’ (the artwork’s minge), Even Electronic, Bad Lieutenant gents, If you wanna buy some drivel, ‘Super Highways’ jizz, Other Two together with some useless pish.

Yer fucker, yer fucker – yo, yo, yo, yo… Slam your money down and waste another pound, Slam your wonga down, and piss away your pounds. Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Slam your lolly down, you’re losing all yer pounds… Slam yer hard-earned cash down, silly wanker.

Sorry to repeat myself but these reissues win the award for Most Pointless Rerelease ever. There were the fairly pointless '94 mixes, the mind-numbingly pointless International and the tantalisingly-almost-but-not-quite-totally-and-utterly-pointless Best Of Joy Division, but they've finally managed it: complete pointlessness. Remaster ancient vinyl for CD and then put it back on vinyl that no one can play any more, with 'bonus' material you can hear for free on Youtube anyway. I take my hat off to you, Rhino.

Dude.

Brutal. 😂

I never repeat myself. I told you before.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I never repeat myself. I told you before.

Come again?

Andy wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I never repeat myself. I told you before.

Come again?

Don't say that. He'll just figure out a way to work Sporty Spice into his response.

I was impotent but the doc cured me. - Come again?

50 Pound Note wrote: My thoughts are that he *did* design a proper sleeve, we just don't perceive it as such.

I will also add that the sleeve was indeed "designed" in that it has both "NEW ORDER" and "FAC 133" printed on the spine (at least that's what's on my UK copy). Contrary to popular belief, that alone disqualifies the sleeve from being "generic" as most people describe it. That's my opinion at least.

I'm further of the opinion that the John Robie remixes are incredible and better the album version, but know that's been argued endlessly elsewhere and that I am probably in the minority there.

-Mike

steinomite wrote:

50 Pound Note wrote: My thoughts are that he *did* design a proper sleeve, we just don't perceive it as such.

I will also add that the sleeve was indeed "designed" in that it has both "NEW ORDER" and "FAC 133" printed on the spine (at least that's what's on my UK copy). Contrary to popular belief, that alone disqualifies the sleeve from being "generic" as most people describe it. That's my opinion at least.

-Mike

Really? That's interesting. My copy doesn't anything on it.Well, i mean the sleeve is basically as thin as an inner sleeve and therefore absolutely no space enough to have any type on the spine.

😕

50 Pound Note wrote:

2. New Order was still considered an indie band, but trying to make serious inroads to dance music culture. Most club DJs are used a 12" in a plain black or white die-cut sleeve. The simple black sleeve for Sub-Culture harkens back to the black die-cut sleeve for Blue Monday, which was their biggest success on the dance floor up to that point - although it's fair to point out Sub-Culture was printed on higher quality stock than a standard issue die-cut sleeve. It's a bit glossy, which makes it stand out. That's a deliberate design choice. The black and white label also gives it the feel of a promo 12", and club DJs love to be the first to play anything. So I think it was designed to make it look a bit like a promo to try and gain traction among DJs.

I'm with you on the theory that Saville went for a blank black sleeve as , like you say, it was the way with dance culture and DJs to have the sleeves like that.It fitted in with that dance and DJ culture.And yeah, it has a slight gloss to it, not just a cheap black sleeve (though the 7" is !).

I vaguely recall walking to the record shop when it was released and curious to see what artwork Saville had done for the release and then in the shop it was " Oh, it's just a black sleeve" .But there was a niggling feeling that that was Saville's intention.