“Well, I’m still a bit of a f**king idiot because I drank too much last night.”

IrishTimes.com

Good little interview.

Wonder what he’s referring to when he says he wants to publish a book about someone and a certain situation, but which can only be done after his own death.

'Keyboardist Gillian Gilbert joined New Order after singer Ian Curtis’s death in 1980... Sumner was the ultimate reluctant frontman, unwittingly catapulted into the position by the death of Ian Curtis.' You learn a new thing every day. 'Stephen Morris, widely considered to be one of the best drummers in musical history' by Tony Wilson.

perspexorange wrote: Good little interview. Wonder what he’s referring to when he says he wants to publish a book about someone and a certain situation, but which can only be done after his own death.

Hook v New Order would seem to be the obvious thing. But do we need a book about that? An article would suffice.

Ah, some clarity on the song writing situation:

Sumner says they don’t have any immediate plans to follow up their well-received late career album, Music Complete, from 2015, but he does have about 150 sound snippets and ideas that they could work with to write songs.

On the one hand; oh dear no new songs. On the the other hand; still hope for the future. Maybe.

a theory about when they turned on the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva, which is a huge particle collider that goes around the city,

Does Bernard think we haven't heard of it?

Johnny was great and in really good form, but he doesn’t drink, and neither does his band. They all go jogging together, apparently.”

Not sure if this was meant to be funny but it made me chuckle.

I always tidy my room before I check out, because I don’t want to give the cleaners a more difficult job, and my grandmother was a cleaner. So I’d tidy my room, but I’d be throwing up because I’d drank way too much.

Agree with this (tidying, not being hungover). The whole rock-stars-wrecking-hotel-rooms thing was spoit brat behavior really. Unless you're going to pay your management extra to clean up after you, it's shitty behaviour towards people at the lower end of the job/pay scale.

Did Johnny broach the subject of his former bandmate, Morrissey, and his increasingly questionable endorsements of a far-right fringe party called For Britain? “I think we questioned his dubious politics,” Sumner answers. “He has become a bit toxic, hasn’t he?

Mr KeepItComing, following your comments in the Monaco thread, are you reading? If so, you may as well read this article too, for further clarity on Bernard's politics.

Steve [Morris] was ... renovating his studio, ... He had to put a new roof on it and pest control had to come and remove the dead rats from the ceiling.”

New roof on the barn, rats out - time to make new music!

Andy wrote: IrishTimes.com

I can’t get that link to work

EXCLUSIVE BERNARD SUMNER INTERVIEW Download here or get it all over the fucking web Part 1. Bernard takes over from Ian Curtis when he commits suicide and New Order rise from the ashes of Joy Division When Ian Curtis committed suicide, Bernard took over and New Order rose from the ashes of Joy Division. Ian Curtis committed suicide so Joy Division became ashes and New Order rose from these ashes of Joy Division because Ian Curtis comitted suicide and Bernard took over from Ian Curtis, who committed suicide so Bernard took over and New Order rose from the ashes of Joy Division. Joy Division were ashes because Ian Curtis committed suicide, so Bernard took over and New Order rose from these ashes of Joy Division. 'Bernard, did Bernard take over from Ian Curtis when he committed suicide and did New Order rise from the ashes of Joy Division?' Bernard: 'Yes. I took over from Ian Curtis when he committed suicide. I guess you could say New Order rose from the ashes of Joy Division!' (laughs) NEXT WEEK: The self-effacing title 'The Other Two' and what it means. There's no way you'd work it out in 30 years.

"Wonder what he’s referring to when he says he wants to publish a book about someone and a certain situation, but which can only be done after his own death."

I just hope he isn't implicating himself in that Ian Curtis "suicide? - but was it actually murder?"urban myth. God forbid.

Keep it coming.

Benj65 wrote: "Wonder what he’s referring to when he says he wants to publish a book about someone and a certain situation, but which can only be done after his own death."

I just hope he isn't implicating himself in that Ian Curtis "suicide? - but was it actually murder?"urban myth. God forbid.

Whose urban myth? Let's not start that sort of thing here. It's very difficult to force someone to hang themself, (if you threaten someone with another form of violence and go through with the threat, then the whole 'plan' falls apart). Also the coroner would have a pretty good idea if there was anything suspicious about the circumstances.

is it bro wrote: I can’t get that link to work

Mmm, gone. A less grizzly bit of speculation here: maybe Bernard regretted his "150 sound snippets" comment and didn't want it on the internet, lest we all start... speculating? Or maybe not.

is it bro wrote:

Andy wrote: IrishTimes.com

I can’t get that link to work

I see what you mean.

It was working. I used the search function on their site for "Bernard Sumner" and "New Order" and that particular article no longer appears.

I wonder why it was pulled.

Perhaps Sumner or the band’s management were concerned about what was implied by that ‘future book’ comment.

I agree that this was almost certainly about Hook. Maybe they thought better than to stoke the fire again, now that it’s died down a little.

View it here: link Or I'll just paste the entire write up. (Credit to Eamon Sweeney of Irish Times) Hit 'show spoiler' to view.

[SPOILER]It’s been a disappointing summer, but the sun is shining and New Order are back in town. Speaking of sunshine, their singer, Bernard Sumner, in his 2014 memoir Chapter and Verse: New Order, Joy Division and Me, notes how the blue skies of Los Angeles spawned the Beach Boys. He also adds that Dusseldorf produced Kraftwerk, New York birthed Chic, and Manchester hatched Joy Division, who, like the city itself, sounded “cold, sparse and, at times, bleak”.

At their Trinity College show, New Order play five Joy Division songs. Even if some of these songs could be construed as bleak, Trinity’s cricket pitch hosts scenes of pure, unadulterated joy, fuelled by love, sunshine, alcohol and one of the greatest back catalogues in pop.

These incredible songs are haunted by their own unique ghosts, namely Ian Curtis, Rob Gretton, Martin Hannett and Tony Wilson, all deceased participants in an astonishing tale. New Order are now managed by Rebecca Boulton and Andy Robinson, who took over after Rob Gretton died of a heart attack in 1999, aged just 46. The Joy Division/New Order story has been messy, seldom pure, and never simple.

Keyboardist Gillian Gilbert was an occasional substitute guitarist in the early Joy Division days, later joining New Order after singer Ian Curtis’s death in 1980. She married Stephen Morris in 1994, who is widely considered to be one of the best drummers in musical history for his pioneering percussion in both bands. Gilbert stopped touring in 1998, and took extended leave in 2001, to care for the couple’s children, later rejoining in 2011.

Bernard Sumner: ‘I was 17 and worked in a general office, thinking, ‘Jesus, to quote a Peggy Lee song, is this all there is?’ In a recently published book, This Searing Light, the Sun and Everything Else – Joy Division: The Oral History, England’s Dreaming author Jon Savage unearths a brilliant quote from Tony Wilson, the Factory Records supremo.

“Yes, it’s a fabulous story, the story of the rebuilding of a city that begins with them,” Wilson says. “The story of a tragic suicide, a moral story and a cultural, academic, intellectual, aesthetic story, but at the heart of it it’s only here because they wrote great songs and great songs never die.”

Ian Curtis and Tony Wilson are in the grave, but their legacy endures. Joy Division’s Unknown Pleasures has just entered the top 40 album charts for the very first time, 40 years after its release in 1979, when it went to number 71. Last month, it peaked at number 5, and its Peter Saville artwork was projected on to public buildings in Manchester.

Initially, Sumner was the ultimate reluctant frontman, unwittingly catapulted into the position by the death of Ian Curtis. Yet, on the Trinity stage, he delivers a triumphantly uplifting performance that is streets ahead of his early career. A few hours before the Trinity show, as he sits in a hotel room overlooking Stephen’s Green, he reflects on what inspired him to join Joy Division.

“In the early days we were just happy to make music because we hated work and normality,” Sumner says. “Doing a nine-to-five put the fear of God in you. I never envisaged doing that, but I tried it for a bit. I left school and I had to get a job because we didn’t have any money. I somehow got a job at Salford City Treasury at the town hall sending rates demands out and stuffing envelopes. I was 17 and worked in a general office sending these out, thinking, ‘Jesus, to quote a Peggy Lee song, is this all there is?’ Some of the people who were in there for a couple of years were great, but some of them were like the living dead.”

Sumner wanted to be more creative, so he contacted every single advertising agency in Manchester and got work as a runner, as he had a Lambretta scooter, and then progressed to animation. “It was like conveyor belt art, so I wanted to do something else,” he says. “Then, the band just came together from going to gigs and meeting like-minded people. By some incredible miracle, it worked, and it is still working. Thank goodness, because I don’t need a plan B now.”

Sumner enthuses that he has never enjoyed touring so much, as they now do everything at a healthier pace. “The old New Order shows used to follow the pattern of doing a great show and going out and celebrating. We’d celebrate way too much with a party in the dressing-room after the show, go to a pub, bring a load of people back to the hotel, get trashed – but not trash the hotel because I don’t believe in that sort of carry-on. I always tidy my room before I check out, because I don’t want to give the cleaners a more difficult job, and my grandmother was a cleaner. So I’d tidy my room, but I’d be throwing up because I’d drank way too much.

“I used to drink Pernod and orange juice, which is like drinking alcoholic toothpaste, but I drink wine now. All that only went on for about 15 . . . no, 20 years,” he says, breaking into laughter. “But eventually we learnt our lesson. Now, it is like being hit by a big stick. As you get older, the stick gets bigger until it is like being hit by a six-by-seven breezeblock on your head and something has to change.”

In Chapter and Verse, Sumner recalls being so sick at an American airport on a promotional tour with Electronic, he placed a carrier bag full of his own vomit through a security scanner. His bandmate, former Smiths guitarist Johnny Marr, stopped drinking around this time. “Yeah, I think I put him off,” Sumner laughs. “We did a festival in Athens about three weeks ago where we played Get the Message. Johnny was great and in really good form, but he doesn’t drink, and neither does his band. They all go jogging together, apparently.”

Did Johnny broach the subject of his former bandmate, Morrissey, and his increasingly questionable endorsements of a far-right fringe party called For Britain?

“I think we questioned his dubious politics,” Sumner answers. “He has become a bit toxic, hasn’t he? The world has gone a bit like that at the moment. We were only discussing this at dinner last night. It’s gone a bit pear-shaped. These are very strange times and a lot of things don’t seem to make sense. We’ve got Brexit in the UK. I’m not a fan. Obviously you’ve got Mr Trump. I find it difficult to call him President Trump. Let’s call him Resident Trump.”

Sumner is as bemused by our times as anyone else. “There’s all sorts of weird shit going down that never would’ve been accepted a few years ago,” he says. “Trump seems to be able to get away with everything under the sun. I remember the days when a member of parliament would lose their job for being whipped by a dominatrix and getting caught, which seemed to happen very frequently. I remember a Bernard Manning joke, which doesn’t really apply now because the tables have been turned. It concerned a Conservative MP who had hung himself with an orange in his mouth so he couldn’t breathe. He was dressed in stockings and suspenders and a bra, but apparently he had a Manchester City kit on underneath it all, but they kept that bit out of the papers so not to embarrass his family. Now, that joke has gone full circle. I’m a United fan, so it’s been a testing few years.”

Sumner mentions Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson, noting that it is hard to keep up with the insanity. “Take the Harvey Weinstein scandal,” he says. “He quite rightly shouldn’t have a career anymore, but on the other hand, before Donald Trump became president, there was audio released of him talking about grabbing women by the vagina. Harvey Weinstein quite rightly gets his career destroyed, but Donald Trump becomes president.”

Sumner posits an intriguing theory. “The best thing I read or heard recently was a 14-year-old kid on YouTube coming up with a theory about when they turned on the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva, which is a huge particle collider that goes around the city,” he says. “There was a lot of fear that it could create a black hole, or cause a nuclear explosion, or the end of the world. His theory is that when that was switched on it created an alternative universe where Trump becomes president and all this weird shit goes down. I found this amusing and shocking all at the same time.”

The bittersweet euphoria of New Order and the skeletal minimalism of Joy Division are a perfect antidote and soundtrack to the times. Sumner says they don’t have any immediate plans to follow up their well-received late career album, Music Complete, from 2015, but he does have about 150 sound snippets and ideas that they could work with to write songs.

“This is a busy summer, but now I’ve actually some time on my calendar that actually says ‘time off’, which is quite surprising,” he says. “We had a reasonably quiet year last year, which wasn’t as hectic as Steve [Morris] was finishing his book, Record Play Pause, and renovating his studio, which is a lot bigger than mine. He had to put a new roof on it and pest control had to come and remove the dead rats from the ceiling.”

They’ve just released a live album with a difference, entitled New Order + Liam Gillick: So it Goes, which captures a performance in the Granada studios in Manchester. “We were approached by the Manchester International Festival with the brief to come up with something modern and original,” Sumner says. “I thought we should do something with an orchestra, but reinvent the orchestra and instruments.”

The results are another dazzling reimagining of their repertoire.

“The band sat through the entire catalogue for a couple of days and we picked the songs,” Sumner explains. “It was hard work because it had never been done before. It was a case of inventing a wheel rather than reinventing it. To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever done a synth orchestra before. Our first television performance as Joy Division was at Granada Studios. Tony Wilson, the boss of our label, Factory Records, was also the presenter, so it was very sweet homecoming for us in more ways than one.”

Writing books To date, Sumner has penned one book, while his former bandmate, Peter Hook, has published separate memoirs on the rise and fall of the Hacienda, New Order, and Joy Division. Does he want to catch up with Hooky’s bibliography? “There is one other I’d like to read, but it will be published after my death about a person,” Sumner replies. “I’m not going to say who it is. I just want to get the truth out about a certain situation, but legally, I could only do that after my death.”

Writing Chapter and Verse proved to be more challenging than Sumner thought. “It’s difficult because you’ve got to get all your facts and chronology right,” he elaborates. “I found it as hard work as writing an album, which surprised me, as I’d thought writing books was a lazy man’s profession. It had to be done because someone else had written a biography about me, which in one word is shit. I was signing copies of this crap book, and people in South America were telling me that they’d paid $300 for it, so that’s why I wrote the book, and also to correct a few misconceptions about me and paint a personal history that shows people what is behind the music.”

Finally, the last time Bernard Sumner spoke to The Irish Times, he told Patrick Freyne in 2014: “I’m happier in myself. Better behaved. Less of a f**king idiot.”

“Well, I’m still a bit of a f**king idiot because I drank too much last night,” he laughs. “However, I did say less of a f**king idiot.”

New Order + Liam Gillick: So it Goes is out now [/SPOILER]

One thing I've noticed lately is that a lot of musicians whom I admire, including Bernard, who would otherwise be quiet or oblique about their political views are finding what is going on in the world—particularly relating to the threats against democracy and the rise of racism and xenophobia—worrying enough that they are laying aside their normal reticence against making political commentary to directly speak out against what is happening. I never thought that in my lifetime I would hear an American president tell non-white natural-born US citizens to "go back to your country" and then somehow insist that such a statement is not racist...seems like history repeating itself and in a very bad way.

P.S.: completely relate to the bit in the interview about doing pre-cleaning of my hotel room for the cleaning lady.

Sage_ wrote: View it here: link Or I'll just paste the entire write up. (Credit to Eamon Sweeney of Irish Times) Hit 'show spoiler' to view.

This really is an useful post!

Funny thing this parallel universe ideas (although not Barns originally), been having the same feeling recently. A bit like Donny Darko? Things turning upside down in most bizarre ways possible, usually horribly wrong.

Andy wrote: IrishTimes.com

There just must have been an error on the site as the original link works again.

“There is one other I’d like to read, but it will be published after my death about a person,” Sumner replies. “I’m not going to say who it is. I just want to get the truth out about a certain situation, but legally, I could only do that after my death.”

I don't see how this could be regarding Hooky, as it seems way more serious than just their scuffling --- very curious about this.