it is just the esthetic. just because hitler liked it doesn't make it evil.
ffs this thread must be the end of neworderonline.com
worst thread ever.
I BET THEY HAVE NAZI UNDERWEAR TOO!!!! CHECK THEM!!!!!!
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Question about the latest Hooky book and thing he says about Steve
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perspexorange wrote:
lentils wrote: Then it also doesn't help when Hooky-camp fans add to the Barney being a secret Nazi supporter stuff.
Maybe I’m moving in different circles to you, but I’ve not heard any Hooky fans use this as ammunition. They always seem to just harp on about the formulaic nature of New Order’s set.
Again, I wasn’t aware that the divers were from the 1936 Olympics
I think the fact that no-one else seems to be mentioning this on the ‘net should reassure you somewhat that there’s nothing really in this. Sure as eggs, if there was any real meat to this, the internet would be jumping all over it.
Thing is, people have brought it up..on youtube. The woman who filmed the Olympics the Riefenstahl woman, was a nazi and did all those hitler propaganda films. And that's the clip new order use. And the nomc15 cover. And the song. That's why Bryan Ferry was under bigtime media scrutiny a few yrs back for praising the cinematography in that filming and her other works. Just seems in very poor taste to do for a band that was so worried about others thinking they were nazi sympathizers. Given something so very blatant. My theory is, it was Peter Saville's idea, though.
It's also briefly mentioned in Steve's book..about that Olympics. Not their live show thing, but back when he was a kid and something his dad said, regarding Jesse Owens.
Anyways.
Are you serious? So referencing or alluding to anything from Germany from 1930-1945 makes you a Nazi Fascist Racist?
Someone likes the esthetics of a Panzer tank and it means they wish Jews were all put into concentration camps?
Are you insane?
Here, imagine watching some footage about Berlin in 1936 --- are you evil for watching this?
omfg
p.s. seriously, why this forum not let us embed youtube....
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tarbox23 wrote:
p.s. seriously, why this forum not let us embed youtube....
It does. Why don't you remember me telling you (yes You!) how to do this? (reply #5) amongst the many times I have told people on the forum
I'm not sure that the "Divers" intro footage is anything to do with the 1936 Olympics at all. I could be wrong, but I have a memory of reading in a couple of places that it's archive film of divers diving into Sydney Harbour - NO might even have first started using it during their Australian shows, with the orchestra. The first time I can recall anyone screaming "Leni Riefenstahl!" at it was in a Guardian review of the last Glastonbury show, and I have a feeling that was a kneejerk assumption, rather than based on any research or curious frame-by-frame memory of Triumph Of The Will. I've also always assumed the Wagner came from the group's love of the excellent Nosferatu soundtrack (Tangerine Dream, too) - feel free to try and tell Herzog he's a Nazi...
aysie wrote: I'm not sure that the "Divers" intro footage is anything to do with the 1936 Olympics at all. I could be wrong, but I have a memory of reading in a couple of places that it's archive film of divers diving into Sydney Harbour - NO might even have first started using it during their Australian shows, with the orchestra. The first time I can recall anyone screaming "Leni Riefenstahl!" at it was in a Guardian review of the last Glastonbury show, and I have a feeling that was a kneejerk assumption, rather than based on any research or curious frame-by-frame memory of Triumph Of The Will. I've also always assumed the Wagner came from the group's love of the excellent Nosferatu soundtrack (Tangerine Dream, too) - feel free to try and tell Herzog he's a Nazi...
The divers clip is from the Leni 1936 Olympics film she made as part of nazi propaganda. it's in history books, people. And it is the actual footage. The entire thing was used AS nazi propaganda. it's even on youtube.
Maybe it is - I'm just contributing what I recall reading somewhere. I know the Riefenstahl stuff (I even knew about that crap before YouTube existed), but I've not personally been able to match my memory of the NO clips with the Riefenstahl stuff on YT, although I do admit I've not spent much time looking. But she wasn't the only person filming divers in the 1930s and 1940s. For example, check this footage, filmed in Sydney at the Olympic pool, circa 1938:
aysie wrote: PS - at least some of this Sydney footage is 100% definitely used in the NO montage
Ahhh. Didnt know that. Thought it was all 1936. Or so it appeared. Looked identical. Thanks for sharing this. Hmm, interesting.
aysie wrote: I'm not sure that the "Divers" intro footage is anything to do with the 1936 Olympics at all. I could be wrong, but I have a memory of reading in a couple of places that it's archive film of divers diving into Sydney Harbour - NO might even have first started using it during their Australian shows, with the orchestra. The first time I can recall anyone screaming "Leni Riefenstahl!" at it was in a Guardian review of the last Glastonbury show, and I have a feeling that was a kneejerk assumption, rather than based on any research or curious frame-by-frame memory of Triumph Of The Will. I've also always assumed the Wagner came from the group's love of the excellent Nosferatu soundtrack (Tangerine Dream, too) - feel free to try and tell Herzog he's a Nazi...
If you can find where you read it's from Sydney, it would be greatly appreciated. would very much like to know it wasnt what I originally thought.
Thankyou for your input.
I can't recall where I read it originally, sorry, but I searched and found some mention in reviews from those shows at the Sydney Opera House - the Sydney Harbour bridge is actually visible in the background in some sections of the footage in the montage, so I guess folks there would recognise it:
https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/new-order-performed-with-australian-chamber-orchestra-we-were-there/
aysie wrote: I can't recall where I read it originally, sorry, but I searched and found some mention in reviews from those shows at the Sydney Opera House - the Sydney Harbour bridge is actually visible in the background in some sections of the footage in the montage, so I guess folks there would recognise it:
https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/new-order-performed-with-australian-chamber-orchestra-we-were-there/
Ahh!! Wow. I guess that's how it started then? During those Aussie shows and they just kept it I guess. Ohhhh. Interesting!! Had no idea. Well, I guess that explains that then.
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Don't forget New Order's Jewish friends - Alan Wise, Arthur Baker, Ruth Polsky, Billy Joel etc. And also working with Quincy Jones doesn't seem the actions of nazis.
Also, they played the Rock Against Racism gigs both as Joy Division and New Order...Bernard's work with DoJo...fans of dub reggae...and on...and on...and on...
tapebias wrote: Billy Joel
I've never heard about this - what's their connection to Billy Joel?
Yeah - I'm also curious about this Billy Joel business - that's the real story here!
As I said above, I do reckon the use of/ love for that Wagner piece came about from their initial exposure to the piece, without any associations, via the Herzog Nosferatu movie (similar to all the Morricone soundtrack echoes in NO's music). But for other and more in-depth non-Nazi-sympathising examples of people liking Wagner, and wrestling with that baggage, Stephen Fry's documentary is interesting:
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/sep/23/stephen-fry-wagner
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Oh Dear. There’s far too much speculation here. People are stating decent reasons to doubt that the band are fascist, and now even that is being questioned.
I’m out of this thread too.
perspexorange wrote: Oh Dear. There’s far too much speculation here. People are stating decent reasons to doubt that the band are fascist, and now even that is being questioned.
I’m out of this thread too.
That was an aside in general comment about anything or anyone in general. Not necessarily this topic, as I said in my last post. Was more referring to the state of our stupid world at this moment, politically. USA and UK...and how easily people can be led to think one way and it not be what it seems. Ie Trump and certain assholes in UK office. I'm from America and we are heavily dealing with the onslaught of certain kind of Trump supporters that are..or WERE.. closet racists, homophobes, etc and once kept it hush til now because Trumps making it seem like it's okay to be a bigot asshole.
Then I threw in my Ian comment because I've always thought Ian had some creepy side. Not really sure why I mentioned that, because it's really not pertaining to NO itself. But still mightve rubbed off on the members but in terms of just aesthetic interest and shock value shit. Was never an Ian fan and was always a New Order fan. But never could fully get into Joy Division. No offense.
And that was in my head at the time and probably should not have put that in there with that.
aysie wrote: Yeah - I'm also curious about this Billy Joel business - that's the real story here!
Sorry, but about as true as some of the stuff posted on this thread.
Or maybe they did backing woooooooahs on Uptown Girl when they were recording Confusion in 1983.
