Volume 2 of Steve Morris Autobiography out 12th Nov

Ace! Just pre-ordered a copy. £17.60 on Amazon

Fast Forward is the title.Tried to copy cover image to here but unable to.

Great stuff!

Can't wait for this. I 'm hoping it's going to be massively geeky with the technical details. I really enjoyed his first book, but I think this second part is where his talent is really going to shine, given his significant synth-wizardry employed in the New Order years.

I wonder if signed copies will be available (I bought a signed copy of his first book). I think I'll hold off on pre-ordering just yet; in case a signed copy is announced.

Fotz wrote: Tried to copy cover image to here but unable to.

[TWITTER]1293456355911753728[/TWITTER]

Thanks,D!

Why was the book split into two and not just one big one?

SeasoningPacket wrote: Why was the book split into two and not just one big one?

Maybe it would have been just too big? Record Play Pause is 400 or so pages.Volume 2 maybe many more pages than that, i don't know.Say Volume 2 is, i don't know,600 pages or even more as there's many more New Order years than Joy Division years that would have made a 1,000+ page book.

Maybe Steve hadn't finished writing the New Order years by the time he felt he wanted the JD years Volume 1 published?

IMHO i think it works well having the JD years and the NO years split into 2 books.

Well, it'd be a pretty big book. 880 pages combined between the two books, according to Amazon's page count.

In comparison, Hooky's New Order book was 768 pages, and that was pretty unwieldy.

It also makes sense to split it between the two eras, like Hooky did (although I'd have preferred that Steve had split it straight after JD ended, rather than at the end of 1980, which is what he did).

Edit - Fotz beat me to it. Great minds think alike, hey buddy? :-)

Oh good.

Signed copies available here:

https://www.roughtrade.com/gb/stephen-morris/fast-forward-volume-2/hardback-plus-1?fbclid=IwAR1JYufun3TVWA8sj70ZV1Bq5YXIZwcX9gAP4IxuTMocXGuNM9o\_zI\_w3Vs

£20.00 plus £4.23 1st class p&p (you can opt for 2nd class at £3.35, if you want)

Pretty decent, I think.

Yep, pre-ordered mine. And people may rightly say that at this point there's nothing left to learn but that misses the point, it's all about different perspectives. Besides, this far in, I can hardly stop buying this stuff now. Just waiting for Gillians. And for Bernard to rewrite his with a bit of 'substance' to it this time.

I've ordered a signed copy too.

I'm just annoyed that I didn't get a signed copy of Bernard's at the time. I have signed copies of Steve's first book and all three of Hooky's, so feel like my collection is incomplete.

Copying and pasting cos it's still fookin foony. And in the words of Sylvia Plath, fook yoo if you cunt take a joke. Extract from 'I Am Monkey', Steve's forthcoming autobiography: So Steve, what was it like working with Jonathan Demme? Oh yeah. Jonathan. Johnny Demme. John 'Silence of the Lambs' Demmie. Johnny 'Silencie and stuff' Demmie... Doing quite well for himself now! Something of a director I believe! Or not! Ah yes actually. Thanks to us. Or maybe not. Actually that's a good line innit. Do a New Order video, become a director! Yes, like Jonathan Demme! Oh hang on, he 's already done one inne? Yeah! That's me point! Come on and - yeah.... Thank you for that insight. Gillian? Er. yes. Ha ha ha!

7 Reasons... I won't read this fucking book:

1. Stephen is a cock.
2. I refuse to support Stephen's pension fund and he is a cock. Popsters make too much money anyway and if I had a spare 25 quid it'd go to Amnesty, Oxfam or my forthcoming wedding to Sporty Spice.
3. Stephen is a cock.
4. New Order's 'leisurely' (i.e. fucking meagre) output does not deserve yet another retread. Write something new or shut up. Cock.
5. Stephen? Cock?
6. Celebrity bios don't appeal to me cos the actual work is rarely that deep. If you research Ingmar Bergman's life it gives you valuable insight into the films. I don't care how many Es Bernard dropped to write lyrics as bad as 'Every Second Cunts'.
7. Stephen is a cock.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: ...does not deserve yet another retread.

Repetition is annoying, agreed. See below.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Copying and pasting cos it's still fookin foony.

Is it?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Write something new or shut up. Cock

See above.

I never repeat myself. I told you before.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: If you research Ingmar Bergman's life it gives you valuable insight into the films.

I don't want valuable insight into any films, next thing you'll be watching films with the Directors commentary on. Why is that a thing? You don't ask a plumber to give you a step by step dialogue on how he (or she) fixed your bog. Make the film then fuck off and leave me alone.

Who doesn't want to read about when Stephen Morris met Des Walker? Come on, that shit is hardcore.

That's funny. I might use that in my next stand-up. And because you're not a comedian, It's harvesting not theft. I accused Paul McCartney of writing repetitive Bsides. He said, It's not true, It's not true, It's not true... It's not true. It depends what level of interest you have. Personally I can't be fucked this time around.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: That's funny. I might use that in my next stand-up. And because you're not a comedian, It's harvesting not theft. I accused Paul McCartney of writing repetitive Bsides. He said, It's not true, It's not true, It's not true... It's not true. It depends what level of interest you have. Personally I can't be fucked this time around.

When you first told people you wanted to be a comedian they laughed. Well, they're not laughing now.

That's a Bob Monkhouse line, any relation?

Looks like there's going to be an audiobook version of the first book, read by Steve. Released on 03/09/20.

Clip here:

https://www.facebook.com/NewOrderOfficial/videos/363741281300832

Just if anyone is interested, in respect of Steve's book, there is a streamed event going on in early November here:

https://dice.fm/event/ed...ch\_id=839604726822578025

If you pay for this (£23.50), you get access to the streamed event, plus a signed physical copy of Steve’s new book (through Rough Trade).

I’d already pre-ordered a signed copy through Rough Trade, which cost me about £24 including postage.

I’ve therefore cancelled that and re-ordered using the link above. It’s worked out a few pence cheaper, and I get access to the event too.

Cool - looks good!

perspexorange wrote: Just if anyone is interested, in respect of Steve's book, there is a streamed event going on in early November here:

https://dice.fm/event/ed...ch\_id=839604726822578025

If you pay for this (£23.50), you get access to the streamed event, plus a signed physical copy of Steve’s new book (through Rough Trade).

I’d already pre-ordered a signed copy through Rough Trade, which cost me about £24 including postage.

I’ve therefore cancelled that and re-ordered using the link above. It’s worked out a few pence cheaper, and I get access to the event too.

Iv3 done the same. Interview via zoom

I was wrong about I am Monkey. It's Gorilla. I can't watch this but I know most of you enjoy it so https://gorillatelevision.com/?fbclid=IwAR0KY1L7tXSP3ZgOmgweBYKL6nH8zP6O\_sJs-LV8i5uEtBRgP4w8lgZuziA

☝️ posted in the NO Social Media thread including comments on where Steve's bit is.

I got a notification from Amazon that this has been delayed by two weeks. It sure if it applies if you bought via other sources?

prog99 wrote: I got a notification from Amazon that this has been delayed by two weeks. It sure if it applies if you bought via other sources?

I had one too. Makes sense, he's got to add a bit about Be A Rebel now and the remix he's done for it.

prog99 wrote: I got a notification from Amazon that this has been delayed by two weeks. It sure if it applies if you bought via other sources?

Yep, bit of a bugger it's been put back a few weeks.Would have been receiving the book this week had it not been delayed.However, in the meantime i'm reading John Cooper Clarke's new memoir

Hmmm. Didn't know about this. Damn. Was looking forward to having a good read this weekend (considering that I can't go to the pub).

Just checked Rough Trade. It's still saying 'Released Thursday, 12th November 2020', but I'm guessing this will be updated to the revised date at some point.

As well as my signed copy, I'm planning on buying a digital copy too (easier to read in bed). I wonder if this will be delayed also. It seems likely, but there's always a possibility that the delay is purely related to physical copies (i.e. due to printing issues etc.).

Delayed again. We're writing because an unexpected delay has occurred in delivering the Kindle book listed below: ..... The new expected release date is: Thursday, December 3, 2020.

☝️ Steve is sorry:

[TWITTER]1329110768273534977[/TWITTER]

Debaser wrote: ☝️ Steve is sorry:

I don't want his damn apologies I want to read the decision-making process that led to I Told You So appearing on WFTSC.

Email received this morning from Waterstones informing me that my signed copy has shipped - have to believe it'll be with me a bit earlier than 3rd December! Although, it being a Christmas present, it'll be going away for a month.

Sportak-Mustgo wrote: Email received this morning from Waterstones informing me that my signed copy has shipped - have to believe it'll be with me a bit earlier than 3rd December! Although, it being a Christmas present, it'll be going away for a month.

Hmmm. Well I hope it does come a bit earlier. Having a good book like that to read would certainly ease this crappy lockdown.

In other news, I managed to buy a signed copy of Sumner's book earlier today. Once that arrives and Steve's turns up, I'll have a Full House of signed books (3 x Hooky, 2 x Steve, 1 x Bernard). We just need Gillian to write one now.

Waiting til 9th Dec no probs for me as am still engrossed in John Cooper Clarke’s auto still at the mo. About three quarter through.Yer can’t beat his hilarious wit and wisdom. Highly recommend

Fotz wrote: Waiting til 9th Dec no probs for me as am still engrossed in John Cooper Clarke’s auto still at the mo. About three quarter through.Yer can’t beat his hilarious wit and wisdom. Highly recommend

Same here. Last time I enjoyed a book so much was probably Steve's first volume...

My copy of Volume 2 was dispatched by Rough Trade today. Royal Mail 2nd class, so will probably be with me early next week.
Shame it’s unlikely to arrive tomorrow, as I’d love to give the book a bit of a read over the weekend.

(Saying that, I’ll be buying a digital copy too, so will do most of my reading in that manner. Still, it’d be nice to get a head start with the physical copy).

Missed this on Thursday (26th Nov) night but found on catch up today and captured and uploaded to You Tubs.Hard to keep up with these things at the moment but this worth a listen .Some amusing little anecdotes , like when Gillian's dad went to see how the cowboy builders had built the Hac.

Thanks for the 'heads up' on this, Fotz. I'd completely missed it.

Talking of radio, I've just seen that Steve is due to appear on Lauren Laverne's show on 03/12/20:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py0z

perspexorange wrote: Great stuff!

Can't wait for this. I 'm hoping it's going to be massively geeky with the technical details. I really enjoyed his first book, but I think this second part is where his talent is really going to shine, given his significant synth-wizardry employed in the New Order years.

^^THIS!

... i really liked Johnny Marr's book, but i wished he would've been a bit more technical, and detailed.

perspexorange wrote: My copy of Volume 2 was dispatched by Rough Trade today. Royal Mail 2nd class, so will probably be with me early next week.
Shame it’s unlikely to arrive tomorrow, as I’d love to give the book a bit of a read over the weekend.

(Saying that, I’ll be buying a digital copy too, so will do most of my reading in that manner. Still, it’d be nice to get a head start with the physical copy).

My copy still hasn't arrived.

It was supposedly despatched Royal Mail 2nd Class.

Anyone received there's? And if so, was yours also 'Royal Mail 2nd Class' and when did it arrive?

My digital copy got delivered bang on midnight. So far a very enjoyable read. Hope your print copies arrive.

perspexorange wrote:

My copy still hasn't arrived.

It was supposedly despatched Royal Mail 2nd Class.

Anyone received there's? And if so, was yours also 'Royal Mail 2nd Class' and when did it arrive?

[TWITTER]1334451587335540737[/TWITTER]

[TWITTER]1334459308453539840[/TWITTER]

Thanks.

So, has anyone received an order from RT?

perspexorange wrote: Talking of radio, I've just seen that Steve is due to appear on Lauren Laverne's show on 03/12/20:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py0z

Caught this on catch up just now.My copy of the book arriving tomorrow apparently.

Fotz wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Talking of radio, I've just seen that Steve is due to appear on Lauren Laverne's show on 03/12/20:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py0z

Caught this on catch up just now.My copy of the book arriving tomorrow apparently.

Who did you order off, Fotz?

perspexorange wrote:

Fotz wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Talking of radio, I've just seen that Steve is due to appear on Lauren Laverne's show on 03/12/20:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000py0z

Caught this on catch up just now.My copy of the book arriving tomorrow apparently.

Who did you order off, Fotz?

From the evil Amazon

Ta.

The whole Rough Trade thing is annoying. If it was posted 2nd class on Friday, I'd have expected it to arrive by now.

However, when they say 'posted', I sometimes wonder if it actually means 'we've sent it over to our dispatch room, ready for posting'.

The fact that the release date wasn't until today might have meant that they were actually going to hang on to it until Tuesday, say, then post it then.

It would just be nice to know if anyone else had '2nd class Royal Mail' from Rough Trade, to see whether or not I need to panic or not.

Debaser wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

My copy still hasn't arrived.

It was supposedly despatched Royal Mail 2nd Class.

Anyone received there's? And if so, was yours also 'Royal Mail 2nd Class' and when did it arrive?

[TWITTER]1334451587335540737[/TWITTER]

[TWITTER]1334459308453539840[/TWITTER]

It's a small world.

I had a Twitter discussion regarding this topic with Peeling Laminate just yesterday (I'm AndyIsListening there).

Mine's just arrived. Signed for, which I didn't think I opted for.

5:30pm. Odd time for Royal Mail to deliver.

Phew! At least I don't have to go through the rigmarole of contacting Rough Trade. It was kind of worrying, as I'm not sure if the signed copies are sold out, so might not have had a replacement.

Mine has just arrived. Really late working for the postie! I got mine from rough trade, seemed to have timed it spot on for release date

My signed copy arrived this morning (ordered from RT) by Royal Mail 48. I was notified on the 27th that it was being dispatched 2nd class.

About a third of the way through (up to PC&L era), enjoying it as much as the first so far.

Copy arrived. First flick through and some great pics, even though one or two I think I’d already seen on one or two of the listening party things. Looking forward to getting stuck into.

Finished reading John Cooper Clarke’s auto bio just last night so its worked out timed nicely. One chapter in Cooper Clarke’s book covers his support of New Order in NZ and/or Oz in 1982. Interestingly he felt he was on New Order’s bandwagon on that tour whereas the band felt they were on his. Apparently Australians weren’t that enamoured with New Order because at that time the Aussies still liked to see a band work for their money with intricate guitar playing and all that. Not enough work ethic .They didn’t like the fact NO’s music mostly played itself on computers. Had always thought NO had been popular in Oz but maybe that came in time later on.

Anyone else finished this yet? The post-Technique part of the book in particular does not make pleasant reading, with Steve and Gillian getting shit on by everybody it seems (the revelations about the recording of the drums on Republic and the ultimatum he was given about the 2002 NZ/Aus tour shocked me) and 2001 seems to have an absolute nightmare for them in particular (having lost my father to rapid onset dementia the parts about his dad's illness were hard to read). It's amazing that he's managed to keep his sense of perspective and humour about it all.

Not got to Technique part yet. About quarter through. Laughed out load numerous times so far.

Ah , so they’d planned to do a Perfect Kiss/Blue Monday segue/mega mix at the BBC Rock Around The Clock thing in August 1984, spent a day at the hotel in Cornwall programming it all but when it came to time of live broadcast the sequencer wouldn’t play ball. Wow, always wondered what the original set list was. What a shame, would of been ace.

Fotz wrote: Ah , so they’d planned to do a Perfect Kiss/Blue Monday segue/mega mix at the BBC Rock Around The Clock thing in August 1984, spent a day at the hotel in Cornwall programming it all but when it came to time of live broadcast the sequencer wouldn’t play ball. Wow, always wondered what the original set list was. What a shame, would of been ace.

Yes, and it finally spelt doom for the Sequential Poly Sequencers with them buying the Yamaha QX1s to replace them. That also meant the end of their CV/Gate-equipped analogue gear that couldn't be updated to MIDI.

Having suffered from exactly the same problems using tapes between computers with the ZX81, Spectrum and C64, I can imagine the problem with trying to use the micro cassette recorded on the spare Poly Sequencer in the primary that had been set up in Maida Vale was to do with the tape head azimuth being different between them. A jeweller's screwdriver to adjust the azimuth was an essential tool for using tapes with home computers (they even started making cassette recorders specifically for computers that had a small knob to adjust the azimuth and level meter to show where the highest signal level was).

Steve is one of the voices on the b side mix of World In Motion? Never knew that.

All that taxman stuff sounded grim. Balances out though with what seems Steve liked necking a few E in Ibiza at the clubs though, ha. He liked a bit of LSD fairly often too.

Pretty difficult reading at times post technique. Definitely another side to the whole New Order story.

Fotz wrote: Ah , so they’d planned to do a Perfect Kiss/Blue Monday segue/mega mix at the BBC Rock Around The Clock thing in August 1984, spent a day at the hotel in Cornwall programming it all but when it came to time of live broadcast the sequencer wouldn’t play ball. Wow, always wondered what the original set list was. What a shame, would of been ace.

That might explain why Bernard seemed so angry during the broadcast, there seems to be a real tension in the studio during the broadcast, it's very enjoyable nonetheless.

I'm so looking forward to buying this book now judging by the comments so far, I hope to pick it up tomorrow in an actual bookshop.

Steve writes that on Blue Monday 88 , Bernard “ improved the drum sounds”. Really? , um, ok. Revisited it and Beach Buggy and apart from a few interesting sounds it is still the utter dogs dinner it was the last time I listened to it back in... oooh, 1988? All those sucking on Milkshake on a straw sounds .... jeez. I once put Beach Buggy on a jukebox in a pub in 1988 and the derision from various punters was, well, interesting.Listening again , I’d forgotten they sampled the “1234” from Hurt and also Confusion 87 on Beach Buggy.

Just discovered after three quarters way through that at the back of the book is Steve’s recommended Spotify playlist for listening while reading . Maybe a better idea would have been to put that at start of book.Or a short note at start of of the book that there’s a recommended playlist at the back of book.Oh hang on , there is - in the chapter list at start. Doh, my bad.I’ll stick it on though for the last 100 or so pages I have to go.

Finished the book today.Another great read and of course Steve is brilliant as ever throughout.At times he's been through a lot of shit (haven't we all) what with family illnesses, deaths, fallouts,health issues , taxmen and all the rest.He kind of sums up towards the end though, if the fun outweighs the bad then it's worth doing.

Lots of and LOTS of technical gadgetry stuff, great anecdotes and some compelling reflections on life itself.Always a bummer to get to the end of a book, if you get what i mean.You want to carry on reading.Well, i could always read it again i suppose.

Had Steve's Spotify playlist on today and got through a lot, though not all, of it and discovered some good little gems and some stuff i hadn't heard for years but was surprisingly great again to hear again. Of all things , All Of My Heart by ABC was a real standout rediscovery. Sounded amazing.Wasn't expecting that.

The tale about the fan not recognising when asking Steve for a pen so he could get Hooky's autograph and then shouting at him because he didn't have one to hand.....FFS.A recurring theme , like the bouncers at The Hac not recognising him either.

Cranelane wrote:

That might explain why Bernard seemed so angry during the broadcast, there seems to be a real tension in the studio during the broadcast, it's very enjoyable nonetheless.

It was - being tired and emotional after a long journey through bank holiday traffic jams, arriving at Maida Vale with minutes to spare only to find the tracks they spent a day preparing had to be written off due to temperamental gear and having to come up with a new setlist at the drop of a hat. Bernard went ballistic, and you can see the aftermath of it in the broadcast.

As I mentioned earlier, he was pissed off enough about it to consign the Sequential Poly Sequencers to the bin and go out and buy the Yamaha QX1 MIDI sequencers to replace them. which led to them getting the RX11 drum machines and DX5 and TX816 synths

Thing that got me about what Steve said about programming stuff for the Rock Around The Clock thing was that him,Bernard and Gillian set their gear up in the lounge of the hotel in St. Austell, the Friday before the live tv gig on the Saturday. Programming sequencers in front of bemused mums with their kids.Mummy, why’s that man making that horrible noise?😄

Prime586 wrote:

It was - being tired and emotional after a long journey through bank holiday traffic jams, arriving at Maida Vale with minutes to spare only to find the tracks they spent a day preparing had to be written off due to temperamental gear and having to come up with a new setlist at the drop of a hat. Bernard went ballistic, and you can see the aftermath of it in the broadcast.

As I mentioned earlier, he was pissed off enough about it to consign the Sequential Poly Sequencers to the bin and go out and buy the Yamaha QX1 MIDI sequencers to replace them. which led to them getting the RX11 drum machines and DX5 and TX816 synths

This is interesting. Thanks for the info.

I love that performance. It's a bit of a car crash, but still very enjoyable. Love Bernard telling Steve to speed up In A Lonely Place and him taking out his aggression on his mike's pop shield. Interestingly, the Radio 1 broadcast has a clip of Hooky playing the intro to 'My Girl', which didn't make it onto the BBC2 broadcast.

Sincerely hoping that the TV performance gets included in the Low Life box set.

^ Yep, the radio broadcast went on for a few minutes longer than the tv. A kind of reprise of Temptation carried on on the radio after the tv ended. But, wasn’t it Barney playing the first few notes of My Girl right at the end? Always thought it was Barney on his guitar , rather than Hooky on his bass.

Wasn’t it mentioned on here ages ago that the original BBC tape of the tv session no longer exists? Or can’t be found. It’d have to be from someone’s old VHS copy, though I guess it could be cleaned up or something? Or ripped from YouTube and cleaned up.Maybe not even cleaned up , I mean, some of Steve’s video recordings of gigs have made it into the Movement and PCL boxes and they’re even worse video quality than what’s out there of the BBC 1984 video. For that reason I can’t see why it wouldn’t be included on the Low Life box. Though I guess maybe the BBC might not allow it under copyright reasons , like the only version allowed would be the original BBC tape, which would be difficult as it is now either extinct or lost.

Fotz wrote: But, wasn’t it Barney playing the first few notes of My Girl right at the end? Always thought it was Barney on his guitar , rather than Hooky on his bass.

Well, I've always thought it was Hooky. But you could be right.

Fotz wrote: Wasn’t it mentioned on here ages ago that the original BBC tape of the tv session no longer exists? Or can’t be found.

Hmm. I either didn't know that or had forgotten. Damn.

I thought that this performance and the OGWT appearances were the two that would definitely make it onto the Low Life set. I know that Johnny James had mentioned that it was relatively easy to get BBC footage, due to licensing deals between them and Warners, so kind of expected these to be included.

The BBC did show a clip of it on that 'Synth And Beyond With Stephen Morris & Gillian Gilbert', back in 2018. so at least part of it must exist in their archive (the quality didn't look great though).

^ Yes I think it was around the time of that Synth & Beyond thing when it emerged the original tape no longer exists. Think when Steve & Gillian are shown watching and talking about the Rock Around The Clock appearance it wasn’t actually the original BBC tape they were viewing.

perspexorange wrote:

Prime586 wrote:

It was - being tired and emotional after a long journey through bank holiday traffic jams, arriving at Maida Vale with minutes to spare only to find the tracks they spent a day preparing had to be written off due to temperamental gear and having to come up with a new setlist at the drop of a hat. Bernard went ballistic, and you can see the aftermath of it in the broadcast.

As I mentioned earlier, he was pissed off enough about it to consign the Sequential Poly Sequencers to the bin and go out and buy the Yamaha QX1 MIDI sequencers to replace them. which led to them getting the RX11 drum machines and DX5 and TX816 synths

This is interesting. Thanks for the info.

I love that performance. It's a bit of a car crash, but still very enjoyable. Love Bernard telling Steve to speed up In A Lonely Place and him taking out his aggression on his mike's pop shield. Interestingly, the Radio 1 broadcast has a clip of Hooky playing the intro to 'My Girl', which didn't make it onto the BBC2 broadcast.

Sincerely hoping that the TV performance gets included in the Low Life box set.

Bernard introduces Temptation as "an atmospheric song in an unatmospheric place", he did a bit of swearing on Blue Monday too, I get the impression he did not enjoy the experience.

Fotz wrote: ^ Yes I think it was around the time of that Synth & Beyond thing when it emerged the original tape no longer exists.

Yep - you are correct, sir. From another thread:

Johnny James wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote:

The Age Of Consent clip from Rock Around The Clock is still awkward/incredible/cringeing/fantastic/uncomfortable/life affirming to watch.Looks like they lifted the footage from YouTube though.Interesting to hear Steve & Gillian's opinion of it.

The BBC have lost the master. I think this was mentioned on another showing of it.

Not sure how I managed to forget this. It's old age, me thinks.

^ See, i always assumed the "an atmospheric song in an unatmospheric place" was Barney referring to the song they'd just played, In A Lonely Place, and not the song coming up, Temptation.Thought that immediately at the time and stand by that.It was only years later when i noticed a few fans saying he was referring to the next song coming up.Opinions as always will differ but it makes more sense to me that he was talking about IALP as that is indeed an atmospheric song.I'd never describe Temptation as such but that's just me.

If i watch the session now it doesn't actually seem as much of car crash as it did live at the time.Barney fluffs the guitar at the start of AoC and hits a couple of bum vocal notes elsewhere yes but that's about it as far as fuck ups go.Yep, he definitely was angry but the songs on the whole are played without too many fuck ups.

I watched it live at the time after a workmate tipped me off saying oh that New Order band you're into are on the telly on Saturday.I was ecstatic at learning of this and come the Saturday afternoon carefully checked the family video player was working ok and got a VHS cassette ready and also a TDK cassette for the radio broadcast.

First song i was , wheh hey ! a new one, haven't heard this one before.So it was a good start.Things started becoming apparent in next song Age Of Consent though that Barney wasn't happy.That guitar fuck up was painfully cringeworthy and then he ripped the pop shield off the mic.At that point i thought, good one Barney, now your vocals are going to sound hissy and distorted.The synths though on AoC sounded marvellous - this was becoming quite a rollercoaster ride! I think i was actually disappointed when Blue Monday kicked in as i would have preferred another new one at that point that i hadn't heard before.But the version of BM was a big improvement on the only other live version of the song i had at the time , the one on the Kilkenny broadcast on Radio 1 the previous christmas.The rollercoaster ride took another dip though when Barney went wildly out of tune at one or even two points.

Thought the synths on In A Lonely Place sounded fantastic but at that point i was expecting yet another fuck up and it was getting quite uncomfortable and awkward viewing! Weirdly at the same time it was fantastic, like watching tv history being made.At one point i noticed people out in the street outside the house walking down the hill and i thought why on earth are those people not at home watching this??!!

Temptation started up and it was glorious but it was now abundantly clear Barney was totally fed up and had passed caring "Oh it's the last time, oh it's the last time, it fucking is!" Eventually it all came crashing to a magnificent end.Or so i thought, i realised it was still going on on the radio broadcast, they had kind of started up Temptation again and carried for another few minutes.That too eventually wound up and the parting sound was Barney (or Hooky?) playing a few notes of My Girl.

Obviously the first thing i checked was to see if the video recorder had recorded it all ok and if the TDK had captured the radio.Everything had worked perfectly.I was no the proud owner of the recording of television history.

Yeah, it had been cringeworthy and awkward at times and quite the rollercoaster ride but at the same time it was exhilarating and it filled my thoughts for months afterwards. I wondered what what my mate at work was going to say about it.I think it turned out out he hadn't bothered!

Oh, just remembered, i created this GIF in a bored moment a few years back

Fotz wrote: ^ See, i always assumed the "an atmospheric song in an unatmospheric place" was Barney referring to the song they'd just played, In A Lonely Place, and not the song coming up, Temptation.Thought that immediately at the time and stand by that.

Yep. Me too.

I think it doesn't help when the individual songs get cut up and uploaded separately onto YouTube etc. I've certainly seen 'Temptation' uploaded with that clip at the beginning, making it look like Bernard was introducing it as 'atmospheric'.

When you play the whole performance, I think it seems more obvious that Bernard is talking about 'In A Lonely Place', which they'd just played.

Fotz wrote:

Nice GIF!

Prime586 wrote: Anyone else finished this yet? The post-Technique part of the book in particular does not make pleasant reading, with Steve and Gillian getting shit on by everybody it seems (the revelations about the recording of the drums on Republic and the ultimatum he was given about the 2002 NZ/Aus tour shocked me) and 2001 seems to have an absolute nightmare for them in particular (having lost my father to rapid onset dementia the parts about his dad's illness were hard to read). It's amazing that he's managed to keep his sense of perspective and humour about it all.

Yeah was quite saddening to read that bit about another drummer would be considered for the Big Day Out gig in Oz in early 2002 if Steve didn’t want to go. Steve was made to feel bad for wanting to stay home and care for his sick daughter. Jeez, FFS.

Like you say, Steve has done well to keep his great sense of humour. Thinking now when seeing video clips from late 90s and early 2000s he did look a bit fed up at times and sustaining a hernia during the Manc Apollo gig in Nov 2005 and being in pain for 18 months after would have compounded everything. I was astonished to learn he’d suffered a hernia yet carried on doing the gigs through the year or so after. Seems like he’s in a good happy place these days though . Great to see.

Steve covers in the section about the recording of WFTSC that they tried working with Brian Higgins/Xenomania who did all or a lot of the Girls Aloud stuff. I remember reading about this somewhere in about summer 2004 and thinking WTF? But it’s not as crazy as it sounds when you listen to something like Call The Shots by Girls Aloud. It has a driving bass and club sound. Or is it just me? Anyway, as Steve reports, the thing didn’t work out in the end although there was some mutual respect.

Just finished the book. A great read and (obviously) highly recommended.

The whole 1992-2007 period was a painful (but interesting) read though. It must have been a pretty horrible time for him, going from one upsetting moment to the next.

I was impressed that, although he was critical of other band members to a certain degree, he was very much measured in his assessments. There were a few 'yeah, he pissed me off at times', but was countered with things like 'I reckon I must have been pretty annoying myself'. Steve also points out that, to be working that closely with individuals for so long, you're bound to find things that annoy you about them. It's only natural.

I'm just glad (and not at all surprised) that he resisted the temptation to lay into one particular member. In fact, he was generally understanding of that person's problems with the band dynamic. Although he admits that he rarely took sides, and tried to see both sides to arguments.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Steve did seem to be a little critical of the band's management, Andy Robinson particularly. There are a few incidents where it appears that he felt that Andy wasn't very supportive.

There were a couple of really disheartening band decisions that shocked and slightly upset me.

Firstly, as Fotz mentions above, that 'Big Day Out' incident is really uncomfortable reading. Rather than go along with Steve's wishes to not travel that far away from home (which, given his daughter's serious illness, seemed reasonable), Bernard and Hooky pretty callously suggested "no problem, we'll just get another drummer". Management agreed ("Problem solved").

Steve said that this incident made him feel 'easily replaceable' and must have made him feel like he wasn't really part of the band (they'd replaced Gillian; they could just as easily replace him). Pretty horrible really. And not the way to treat a founder member.

Secondly, during 'Republic', Stephen Hague had got a session drummer in to play the 'real drums' on the LP. This was a revelation and, again, is pretty shoddy treatment. Steve went along with it, rather than upset anyone. Not only is this bad behaviour (this time from Hague, rather than Bernard & Hooky), it's almost unbelievable. They got a session drummer in to replace arguably one of the finest drummers in rock music?! Madness.

Again, Bernard and Hooky probably should've been more supportive of Steve.

It's been said many times before but, had Rob been around, I'm sure that a lot of the problems could've been avoided.

Yeah, it's shocking. It's shocking that the brains behind Tasty Fish can be considered one of the world's greatest drummers. Utter crud.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, it's shocking. It's shocking that the brains behind Tasty Fish can be considered one of the world's greatest drummers. Utter crud.

I have no idea whether this is meant to be a 'slight' on Tasty Fish or Steve's drumming. Maybe both.

It's true what they say, Comedy is hard. Especially when people haven't a clue at what one is trying to get at.

perspexorange wrote: Just finished the book. A great read and (obviously) highly recommended.

The whole 1992-2007 period was a painful (but interesting) read though. It must have been a pretty horrible time for him, going from one upsetting moment to the next.

I was impressed that, although he was critical of other band members to a certain degree, he was very much measured in his assessments. There were a few 'yeah, he pissed me off at times', but was countered with things like 'I reckon I must have been pretty annoying myself'. Steve also points out that, to be working that closely with individuals for so long, you're bound to find things that annoy you about them. It's only natural.

I'm just glad (and not at all surprised) that he resisted the temptation to lay into one particular member. In fact, he was generally understanding of that person's problems with the band dynamic. Although he admits that he rarely took sides, and tried to see both sides to arguments.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Steve did seem to be a little critical of the band's management, Andy Robinson particularly. There are a few incidents where it appears that he felt that Andy wasn't very supportive.

There were a couple of really disheartening band decisions that shocked and slightly upset me.

Firstly, as Fotz mentions above, that 'Big Day Out' incident is really uncomfortable reading. Rather than go along with Steve's wishes to not travel that far away from home (which, given his daughter's serious illness, seemed reasonable), Bernard and Hooky pretty callously suggested "no problem, we'll just get another drummer". Management agreed ("Problem solved").

Steve said that this incident made him feel 'easily replaceable' and must have made him feel like he wasn't really part of the band (they'd replaced Gillian; they could just as easily replace him). Pretty horrible really. And not the way to treat a founder member. Secondly, during 'Republic', Stephen Hague had got a session drummer in to play the 'real drums' on the LP. This was a revelation and, again, is pretty shoddy treatment. Steve went along with it, rather than upset anyone.Not only is this bad behaviour (this time from Hague, rather than Bernard & Hooky), it's almost unbelievable.They got a session drummer in to replace arguably one of the finest drummers in rock music?! Madness.

Again, Bernard and Hooky probably should've been more supportive of Steve.

It's been said many times before but, had Rob been around, I'm sure that a lot of the problems could've been avoided.

That revelation comes as a shock tbh. Very shoddy treatment of someone whose talent was so pivotal to the band's success right from the beginning as Joy Division through to their most innovative period, which gave them the song that cemented their place in musical history, a tune he played a major part in the composition of.

I haven't gotten my hands on the book yet as I refuse to take the easy option of buying it on Amazon and am waiting until I see it for sale in a local bookshop, having recently read his first book I am seriously looking forward to it. Steve and Gillian must have the patience of saints to deal with the other two bickering prima donnas!

Yeah, it's shocking. It's shocking that the brains behind Tasty Fish can be considered one of the world's greatest drummers. Utter crud.

I have no idea whether this is meant to be a 'slight' on Tasty Fish or Steve's drumming. Maybe both.

It's true what they say, Comedy is hard. Especially when people haven't a clue at what one is trying to get at. Wink

Well whatever it is Stephen Morris IS one of the greatest drummers, and personally my favourite drummer. He can not only hit them drums better than anyone else he completely ,embraced technology and is a major factor and some of the best music ever made either via drumming, programming, synth playing or just general ideas and attitude. I’ve had the good fortune of meeting him and he is a very interesting and musically very knowledgable. A true gentleman. Of course no one should be above criticism and these are just my personal views, but he’s definitely one of my favourite people in music and his book only reinforces this.

The other two are total and utter fucking shit. Whenever people go on about Steve, they refer to an album he made in 1979 and that was all about Martin Hannett and Ian. The hilarious thing about drummers is that I'm a Beatles obsessive and when people ripped the shit out of Ringo... for years I said I can't comment technically but I love it when the drums kick in on the first two White Album tracks. I later discovered that was Paul playing cos Ringo had left in a huff. So for all those years I'd been defending Paul as the Beatles' drummer. Oh yeah, happy fucking Christmas.

The ironic aspect to all this is that the drumming on Republic is pretty pedestrian.

My favourite singer is Alanis Morissette but I can never remember a single lyric. Isn't it ironic? Don't you think? Republic is total and utter shit too. He should be relieved to be discarded. Mind you, I think all music is total and utter shit except The Beatles, the Sex Pistols and the Spice Girls.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Whenever people go on about Steve, they refer to an album he made in 1979 and that was all about Martin Hannett and Ian.

Let's not forget 'Age Of Consent', 'Murder' and the countless other brilliant 'real' and 'programmed' drums that the man, no... god, committed to vinyl.

No Hannett involved in those cases, yet still lauded as magnificent.

Oh, and Happy Christmas to you too. :-)

Listen to any New Order live bootlegs and the one musician who never messes up is Steve, he keeps the other three in line. I was watching an interview from 1989 the other day where Barney is complaining that learning to play a musical instrument is boring, he's partly taking the p*** but at the same time I can't help but thinking that the effort of practicing is kind of worth it.

Cranelane wrote: Listen to any New Order live bootlegs and the one musician who never messes up is Steve,

Yep. Absolutely.Totally agree.Steve is the one that held many of NO's 80s gig together when everything else was going to shit.

You mean the MTV special? I remember that. And let's not forget the towering achievements of the other two. Thirty years to come up with Night Voice, around Liar leading up to Working Overtime. How does he do it? What's his secret? I guess we'll never know.

I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”? You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.) Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.

People always rip the crap out of Wings, and the Partridge barb didn't help, but I have a soft spot for them. They notched up a buncha hits, including a record breaker; the gigs were epic; and Band on the Run is cuntender for finest Beatle solo effort, up there with All Things Must Pass and Imagine. I'm enjoying Paul's new album too. I'm a proof of the pudding person... The Other Two never worked for me, but feels like I've been here before. Music Complete was a gem though. Yeah I'm not making much sense. This is what happens when you stop drinking and then start again. Happy holidays anyway mate. And I like Biker Icon too.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah I'm not making much sense. This is what happens when you stop drinking and then start again. Happy holidays anyway mate.

And to you! Have a good one!

Just keep drinking. Works for me. 👍🏻

perspexorange wrote: I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”? You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.) Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.

Instead of taking time out and working on side projects, which apart from Bernard's, were never going to set the world on fire, I think the Other Two & Hooky might have been better off if they had been given the opportunity to record their own best songs on New Order albums such as Republic, so in an alternative universe, Gillian would have sung lead one or two tracks on Republic, songs which would have been enhanced by the involvement of Bernard and Hooky, Hooky doing likewise, with Bernard, being the chief song writer, still retaining the mantle of lead singer, this is how The Beatles worked, with everybody getting a chance to bring their best tunes to whatever album was being worked on at the time.

If it worked for the Beatles it could have worked for our Fab Four.

And you were just wondering what happened to Keepitcoming...

Does anyone know what it was that SM said in the Other Two 90s interview that made Bernard fall out with him? He mentions it but skirts over what was actually said

I got a real sense of loss from the last few pages, unavoidable loss through the passage of time partly, but also Morris expressing grim acceptance that whatever made the band come together in the beginning was gone, never to be the same again, bridges burnt, chapters closed.

What a shame, for all of them. And us too, I guess.

Really entertaining and moving book. Up there with Hooky's, if not better. He tells very dark stories with his signature anedoctal tone. He gets so self depracating at times that I feel like some details regarding certain subjects have been edited out, mostly The Other Two. He said in interviews ten years ago there was an entire O² album finished, just waiting for the vocals. I still wonder how much of that ended up on Music Complete.

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gq-music-stephen-morris-joy-division-interview

I really hope they can get to tour soon, so I can try to get my copy signed. Here's the autogprah on vol.1, when he remembered I gave him a plastic tank model:

Mr. Disco wrote: He said in interviews ten years ago there was an entire O² album finished, just waiting for the vocals. I still wonder how much of that ended up on Music Complete.

I wondered that too, maybe there will be a third edition where we find out but I doubt it.

Personally, even though someone on here whose name is an alliteration will rip the piss, I'm more hopeful of a book from Gillian(but just the one, love). Perhaps that'll cover Music Complete.

I'd love Gillian to write a book.

I think her perspective on the band would be very unique.

As I've said before, being the only woman / sensible person in the band must have been very difficult at times. Trying to keep it together when the other four (inc. Rob) were, how shall I put it, 'indulging themselves' on a nightly basis.

As regards bits edited out of Stephen's book, I wonder if the details of how he upset Bernard (alluded to in the book) were excised.

This 'falling out' appears to have happened around the time of the first O2 LP ('93-94), and was following something mentioned in an interview with Steve. I keep meaning to read the O2 interviews from this period in my cuttings collection to try and work out exactly what upset him. I doubt, considering Steve's pleasant nature, it was anything too bad.

Probably something along the lines of 'if the others would get their thumbs out of their bum, we'd record another LP' or similar. I can't see Steve slagging off Bernard somehow.

It's probably best that, whatever it is, it's left in the past.

Although the situation with Hooky is less than ideal, I'm very pleased that the other three original members appear to like each other or, at the very least, 'get along'. Not bad for people who've been working together for 40+ years. Thinking about it, the solo projects were probably a good thing. It gave them much needed time apart.

perspexorange wrote: As regards bits edited out of Stephen's book, I wonder if the details of how he upset Bernard (alluded to in the book) were excised.

This 'falling out' appears to have happened around the time of the first O2 LP ('93-94), and was following something mentioned in an interview with Steve. I keep meaning to read the O2 interviews from this period in my cuttings collection to try and work out exactly what upset him. I doubt, considering Steve's pleasant nature, it was anything too bad.

Probably something along the lines of 'if the others would get their thumbs out of their bum, we'd record another LP' or similar. I can't see Steve slagging off Bernard somehow.

According to Hooky's book, The Other Two claimed in an interview they'd written most of Republic, or at least its early incarnation that was mostly dismissed by Sumner and Hague, which Hooky himself confirms they did. Steve appears to say on his book he was only joking, perhaps in an attempt to make amends, but Barney took it really badly.

Ah. I can see why that might've annoyed Bernard. I'd forgotten that Hooky had said that in his book.

I'm sure there's a large degree of truth in Steve/Hooky's comments. Bearing in mind that B & H were off doing Electronic & Revenge respectively, it makes total sense that S&G would be in the farmhouse, putting together tracks ready to dust off once the other other two were ready to start New Ordering.

That shouldn't detract from Bernard's input, which I'm sure was more than significant. He probably did re-write things, but I'm sure there were the bare bones of the original songs still there.

I think Hooky makes reference to the fact that, before Bernard arrived at the farmhouse, 'Regret' was a just a reasonable tune. Apparently, Sumner changed into the classic track it became. I'm probably paraphrasing here, but I think that was the gist of it.

It would be interesting to see if any of the original versions of the 'Republic' tracks end up on the appropriate box set.

perspexorange wrote: I think Hooky makes reference to the fact that, before Bernard arrived at the farmhouse, 'Regret' was a just a reasonable tune. Apparently, Sumner changed into the classic track it became. I'm probably paraphrasing here, but I think that was the gist of it.

It would be interesting to see if any of the original versions of the 'Republic' tracks end up on the appropriate box set.

Both Stephen and Hooky do state on their books that Regret is allegedly "the last track they wrote all together, as a band", in studio. There seems to be an earlier production finished (or not) with Pascal Gabriel, pre-Hague, back in 1992. Dunno the minutiae of the chronology at that point, but apparently both Bernard and Hooky still had appointments with Electronic and Revenge respectively. The Republic sessions resumed later that year, with S. Hague already on board.

Mr. Disco wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I think Hooky makes reference to the fact that, before Bernard arrived at the farmhouse, 'Regret' was a just a reasonable tune. Apparently, Sumner changed into the classic track it became. I'm probably paraphrasing here, but I think that was the gist of it.

It would be interesting to see if any of the original versions of the 'Republic' tracks end up on the appropriate box set.

Both Stephen and Hooky do state on their books that Regret is allegedly "the last track they wrote all together, as a band", in studio. There seems to be an earlier production finished (or not) with Pascal Gabriel, pre-Hague, back in 1992. Dunno the minutiae of the chronology at that point, but apparently both Bernard and Hooky still had appointments with Electronic and Revenge respectively. The Republic sessions resumed later that year, with S. Hague already on board.

Yes. Regret and Young Offender credit Pascal Gabriel with "Pre-Production", pointing towards those being the first tracks recorded for Republic. Always thought Young Offender had Other Two DNA. It might be that keyboard riff that jumps octaves which brings to my mind Tasty Fish

World is another that may have had more input from the OT. That would explain Bernard disparaging it on the following tour. In Massachusetts, after a "...how long will it last?" Bernard adds "Too fucking long". And at the Reading Festival, he offered up a sarcastic "Great lyrics on that one" comment after the song finished. Serious cattitude. Meow!

Andy wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I think Hooky makes reference to the fact that, before Bernard arrived at the farmhouse, 'Regret' was a just a reasonable tune. Apparently, Sumner changed into the classic track it became. I'm probably paraphrasing here, but I think that was the gist of it.

It would be interesting to see if any of the original versions of the 'Republic' tracks end up on the appropriate box set.

Both Stephen and Hooky do state on their books that Regret is allegedly "the last track they wrote all together, as a band", in studio. There seems to be an earlier production finished (or not) with Pascal Gabriel, pre-Hague, back in 1992. Dunno the minutiae of the chronology at that point, but apparently both Bernard and Hooky still had appointments with Electronic and Revenge respectively. The Republic sessions resumed later that year, with S. Hague already on board.

Yes. Regret and Young Offender credit Pascal Gabriel with "Pre-Production", pointing towards those being the first tracks recorded for Republic. Always thought Young Offender had Other Two DNA. It might be that keyboard riff that jumps octaves which brings to my mind Tasty Fish

World is another that may have had more input from the OT. That would explain Bernard disparaging it on the following tour. In Massachusetts, after a "...how long will it last?" Bernard adds "Too fucking long". And at the Reading Festival, he offered up a sarcastic "Great lyrics on that one" comment after the song finished. Serious cattitude. Meow!

I think he was referring to the tour and not wanting to be in the band anymore and all the Factory/Hacienda drama. Hes mocked his own lyrics before. Though it does have an OT style to it. If its by the OT, that was pretty nasty of him. Either way, his ad-libs are funny usually.

Mr. Disco wrote:

perspexorange wrote: As regards bits edited out of Stephen's book, I wonder if the details of how he upset Bernard (alluded to in the book) were excised.

This 'falling out' appears to have happened around the time of the first O2 LP ('93-94), and was following something mentioned in an interview with Steve. I keep meaning to read the O2 interviews from this period in my cuttings collection to try and work out exactly what upset him. I doubt, considering Steve's pleasant nature, it was anything too bad.

Probably something along the lines of 'if the others would get their thumbs out of their bum, we'd record another LP' or similar. I can't see Steve slagging off Bernard somehow.

According to Hooky's book, The Other Two claimed in an interview they'd written most of Republic, or at least its early incarnation that was mostly dismissed by Sumner and Hague, which Hooky himself confirms they did. Steve appears to say on his book he was only joking, perhaps in an attempt to make amends, but Barney took it really badly.

What interview was this anyway?

Cranelane wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”? You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.) Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.

Instead of taking time out and working on side projects, which apart from Bernard's, were never going to set the world on fire, I think the Other Two & Hooky might have been better off if they had been given the opportunity to record their own best songs on New Order albums such as Republic, so in an alternative universe, Gillian would have sung lead one or two tracks on Republic, songs which would have been enhanced by the involvement of Bernard and Hooky, Hooky doing likewise, with Bernard, being the chief song writer, still retaining the mantle of lead singer, this is how The Beatles worked, with everybody getting a chance to bring their best tunes to whatever album was being worked on at the time.

If it worked for the Beatles it could have worked for our Fab Four.

This....right here. Perfectly said.

Cum back, KIC. All is forgiven. I've written this before, so keep reading at your own kissed, but I always had a theory Repubshit started as a 'proper' NO disco-guitar hybrid with Regret, Speckled and Everyone Everbare, but they fell out and lost interest and let Sumner and Hague take over. I can't offer any insight but it would tie in with comments from Hooky and Morpiss, and the fact they were the only ones to make the gigs, except the obligatory singles. The funny part is that at the time, Hooky told NME and John Peel he liked the album cos Hague had kept it classic New Order. Salesman talk? He's wrong about the The Other Poo and Republic too. The album they tried to take credit for was Technique. I remember this being brought up several times, plus Gillian said she 'didn't like' Republic in an Other Two '''interview'''. More to the point, who in their right mind would want to take more than their fair share of responsiblity for that pile of shit?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Cum back, KIC. All is forgiven. I've written this before, so keep reading at your own kissed, but I always had a theory Repubshit started as a 'proper' NO disco-guitar hybrid with Regret, Speckled and Everyone Everbare, but they fell out and lost interest and let Sumner and Hague take over. I can't offer any insight but it would tie in with comments from Hooky and Morpiss, and the fact they were the only ones to make the gigs, except the obligatory singles. The funny part is that at the time, Hooky told NME and John Peel he liked the album cos Hague had kept it classic New Order. Salesman talk? He's wrong about the The Other Poo and Republic too. The album they tried to take credit for was Technique. I remember this being brought up several times, plus Gillian said she 'didn't like' Republic in an Other Two '''interview'''. More to the point, who in their right mind would want to take more than their fair share of responsiblity for that pile of shit?

Technique??? No, everybody says it was Republic.

I agree I can't see why anyone would want to take credit for Republic. I finally exorcised my Republic LP from my life last year for £30+. Poor album although Regret and Special are 5/5, the rest is mostly drug addled mush.

You paid them that much?

perspexorange wrote:

Secondly, during 'Republic', Stephen Hague had got a session drummer in to play the 'real drums' on the LP. This was a revelation and, again, is pretty shoddy treatment.

Certainly beyond what you'd expect from a band that always seemed to pride itself on authenticity and ethics.

But at least Andy Duncan got a credit. He was drafted in to re-record every drum track on the first Duran Duran album and didn't even get a credit (maybe he insisted on it though )

Michael Monkhouse wrote: You paid them that much?

It was worth every penny. Had to give State of the Nation and Shellshock 12"s to charity shop for free though. More drug addled shite.

I once tried to fob a Revenge white label off to a second hand record shop and they refused. So I took it to Oxfam and they fucking refused at first too.

It wasn't like they wanted credit for the actual released Republic album, was it?

Since when was 'drug addled' used as a negative?😄 Boring bastards.

There's nothing druggy or gloriously fucked up about Republic. Dull.

listening to teh audiobook this morning, got to the bit about get ready/dublin/being told off for not being comitted, with all that family shit going on.

they are lucky steve is so easy going. I'd have maimed them for that. didn't know anything about andy but well, hope never to meet him and hooky can fuck right off with that one. unbelievable. could you imagine that the other way round? they just knew they could bully him.

yes nobody is perfect and we have to split the art from the artist but I don't think I'll ever be able to respect Hooky after that. He had kids surely he would be able to empathise?

and christ is that troll still here? fair play he's put years of work into it.

Hooky forfeited his right to respect years ago. After his comments on Gillian the only reason he has any fans left is that the Light gigs are such good value for money. Getting bored of those too now.

SeasoningPacket wrote:

Cranelane wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I don’t really get your point, Michael.

Also “Thirty years to come up with Night Voice”? You’re not making any sense?

You seem to be harping on about The Other Two as if that project is acknowledged as Steve’s crowning achievement; the thing that defines him as an artist, rather than something the two of them did in their spare time whilst B&H couldn’t be arsed with New Order.

No one (fans, press or S&G themselves) are saying that it was the finest work they ever created. It was purely a vehicle for the two of them to release soundtracks that they’d been working on during ‘down time’.

There’s plenty of great stuff in the JD/NO canon that’s far more worthy of your attention.

It’s like me saying that Paul McCartney is a talentless shit, just because ‘Biker Like An Icon’ sucked big donkey balls. Whilst at the same time completely dismissing ‘Yesterday’, ‘Eleanor Rigby’, ‘Hey Jude’ etc.

(Incidentally, I’ve always found The Beatles somewhat overrated. Perhaps I should head over to their forums, to mock Macca and his shit side projects.) Wings... only the band The Beatles could’ve been.

Instead of taking time out and working on side projects, which apart from Bernard's, were never going to set the world on fire, I think the Other Two & Hooky might have been better off if they had been given the opportunity to record their own best songs on New Order albums such as Republic, so in an alternative universe, Gillian would have sung lead one or two tracks on Republic, songs which would have been enhanced by the involvement of Bernard and Hooky, Hooky doing likewise, with Bernard, being the chief song writer, still retaining the mantle of lead singer, this is how The Beatles worked, with everybody getting a chance to bring their best tunes to whatever album was being worked on at the time.

If it worked for the Beatles it could have worked for our Fab Four.

This....right here. Perfectly said.

Yet Gillian did sing lead on one track...

Andy wrote: Yet Gillian did sing lead on one track...

Well spotted, sir! 😂

So whilst we're on the subject of Gillian's vocals, we all know that she featured on 'Avalanche' (lead), 'Doubts Even Here' (spoken word segment) and 'Procession' (backing vocals).

Any others?

Over the last few years, I've become convinced that she sang some of the backing vocals to 'Shellshock'. Hear me out, here. I'm not talking all of the backing vocals (some bits certainly sound like another woman).

There's just one line that really sounds like Gillian to me. The line says 'That's the way' and you can probably hear it best at 3:00ish on 'Shelllcock' (rather than 'Shellshock'). Give it a listen.

It certainly sounds like a different woman than some of the other backing vocals.

Oh, and just a shameless plug for one of my YouTube videos here, for those who've never seen it. For those that have, just ignore me (and 'tut' about my bare-faced cheek).

Gillian's lyrics for 'Doubts Even Here':

She also did Everything's Gone Green, and I'm still not inclined to believe she didn't do Someone Like You...

I can't really comment (something people say before they comment), but I'm not convinced Gillian is on Shelldick. It just doesn't sound her style. Plus Robie was a womaniser and used to chat up girls in discos by promising them a bit on his next single. Bunga bunga.

Possibly also Gillian singing the high "why can't you see, what you mean to me" backing bits dotted about in the original Confusion mixes?

I doubt it.

Thanks for the replies, folks.

I don't generally notice those female backing vocals on 'Everything's Gone Green', so have never considered this as a possibility. Is this for definite?

I wonder whether I ought to tweet Steve to see if her handiwork is anywhere else. He's reasonably likely to respond.

Considering that Gillian does have a very nice singing voice, I'm sometimes surprised that her vocals weren't heard a little more often on the band's tracks,, at least in the background..

It was interesting / surprising to read in Steve's recent book that Bernard was vehemently against her singing on tracks. I guess that's the reason we didn't hear more of her.

Gillian did backing vox on Restless. I vaguely remember her confirming this on twitter shortly after Music Complete's release.

Debaser wrote: Gillian did backing vox on Restless. I vaguely remember her confirming this on twitter shortly after Music Complete's release.

I didn't know that. Cheers!

Mr. Disco wrote: She also did Everything's Gone Green, and I'm still not inclined to believe she didn't do Someone Like You...

I agree.

Everyone seems to insist it's Dawn Zee but I swear I hear Gillian in there. The music is certainly Other Twoish...

I just noticed that this second book has now been released as an audiobook. £9.99 on Apple Books. Free with an Audible subscription on Amazon.

This version comes with a rather charming interview featuring Gillian and Steve, with questions being asked by their daughter, Grace. It's quite good fun and the three of them sound very relaxed (as you'd expect).

According to the blurb, it also contains 'music from New Order and original tracks from Stephen Morris'. I haven't had chance to listen to these yet, but it sounds interesting. I'm guessing they're dispersed throughout the book, rather than sat at the end (like the interview is).

The only real annoying thing is that, unlike Hooky's first two books, this audiobook doesn't appear to have been released in a physical format. Steve's first book wasn't either.

I'd rather have bought it on CD. I never really trust digital streaming sites. I've had issues in the past where it sometimes becomes difficult to access stuff you've already paid for.

Does anyone know if Barney was involved in the event where Hooky and Andy pretty much gave Steve an ultimatum, scream at, and pay cut for taking care of Grace and his dad? Or just Hooky and Andy? I still can't get over that part.

Hook's audiobuke has just come out too, if you can listen to the old sod indulge his ego for twenty hours. Personally that's twenty three more than I can take. On the plus side, there's some new music in there.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hook's audiobuke has just come out too, if you can listen to the old sod indulge his ego for twenty hours. Personally that's twenty three more than I can take. On the plus side, there's some new music in there.

I don't think I could stand that for hours on end!! 😂

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hook's audiobuke has just come out too, if you can listen to the old sod indulge his ego for twenty hours. Personally that's twenty three more than I can take. On the plus side, there's some new music in there.

New music on the audiobook? Hooky noodles, or something more substantive?

Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hook's audiobuke has just come out too, if you can listen to the old sod indulge his ego for twenty hours. Personally that's twenty three more than I can take. On the plus side, there's some new music in there.

New music on the audiobook? Hooky noodles, or something more substantive?

Perhaps it's finally the release of Lostbass, the legendary outtakes from the Freebass album sessions. The title also hints at the his ongoing adventures with The Light, whereby he doesn't actually play the bass most of the time. Cheeky!

https://www.punknews.org/article/74287/peter-hook-releases-20-hour-audio-book-for-substance-inside-new-order

Michael Monkhouse wrote: https://www.punknews.org/article/74287/peter-hook-releases-20-hour-audio-book-for-substance-inside-new-order

Mmm, I actually found that since my last post. So vaguely annoying 3-second snippets. Ok...

Peter Hook's 'Substance' Listening Party The key song for me was Ceremony, because we used new technology and escaped the shadow of Ian. The other key song for me was Everything's Gone Green because we used new technology and escaped the shadow of Ian. The only other key song for me was Temptation. We were using new technology and escaping the shadow of Ian. Then there was Blue Monday! It was a key song for me. I don't know why - I guess because we used new technology in it. And escaped the shadow of Ian. And of course Confusion. I'd call that our one key song. Why? Well, we were using new technology. And escaping the shadow of Ian! Thieves Like Us? Definitely a key track. For me. As we used new technology and escaped the shadow of Ian. I call The Perfect Kiss our other key track. Because, you see, we were using new technology... and escaping the shadow of Ian. Subculture? A key track. I'm not sure why, but we did use new technology in it. And escaped the shadow of Ian. The next track is Shellshock. What can I say? Key song! We used new technology on that one - and escaped the shadow of Ian. State of the Nation is a key song for me. Why? I suppose because we used new technology and escaped the shadow of Ian. And what can I say about Bizarre Love traiangle? Nothing - excpet that it really is a key song. We were using new technology and escaping the shadow of Ian. And finally, True Faith. Key! Because we used new technology in it. And escaped the shadow of Ian. Next week: Technique. Peter describes Technique as a key album. Tune in to find out why.

perspexorange wrote: I just noticed that this second book has now been released as an audiobook. £9.99 on Apple Books. Free with an Audible subscription on Amazon.

This version comes with a rather charming interview featuring Gillian and Steve, with questions being asked by their daughter, Grace. It's quite good fun and the three of them sound very relaxed (as you'd expect).

According to the blurb, it also contains 'music from New Order and original tracks from Stephen Morris'. I haven't had chance to listen to these yet, but it sounds interesting. I'm guessing they're dispersed throughout the book, rather than sat at the end (like the interview is).

The only real annoying thing is that, unlike Hooky's first two books, this audiobook doesn't appear to have been released in a physical format. Steve's first book wasn't either.

I'd rather have bought it on CD. I never really trust digital streaming sites. I've had issues in the past where it sometimes becomes difficult to access stuff you've already paid for.

There's been some discussion on Twitter regarding the mix of Everything's Gone Green that appears between chapters. The word is that it's an unreleased remix (I've not heard it). Can someone here shed some light on this?

Andy wrote:

perspexorange wrote: I just noticed that this second book has now been released as an audiobook. £9.99 on Apple Books. Free with an Audible subscription on Amazon.

This version comes with a rather charming interview featuring Gillian and Steve, with questions being asked by their daughter, Grace. It's quite good fun and the three of them sound very relaxed (as you'd expect).

According to the blurb, it also contains 'music from New Order and original tracks from Stephen Morris'. I haven't had chance to listen to these yet, but it sounds interesting. I'm guessing they're dispersed throughout the book, rather than sat at the end (like the interview is).

The only real annoying thing is that, unlike Hooky's first two books, this audiobook doesn't appear to have been released in a physical format. Steve's first book wasn't either.

I'd rather have bought it on CD. I never really trust digital streaming sites. I've had issues in the past where it sometimes becomes difficult to access stuff you've already paid for.

There's been some discussion on Twitter regarding the mix of Everything's Gone Green that appears between chapters. The word is that it's an unreleased remix (I've not heard it). Can someone here shed some light on this?

Light being shed:

"It’s nothing I’ve heard before. Not a published mix I can think of. Has taken the repetitive sequenced part and really let loose with it." "At Bluedot in 2018 Stephen did a solo drumming display along with Mike Joyce (I think?) in the middle of the afternoon. Pretty sure EGG was one of the tracks. Just him drumming, plus a load of sequencers." - Al

"Yeah, Steve mentioned that it was created for a drum talk with Mike Joyce/Pete Marshall back in 2017 - remains unreleased! :)" -Nick King

I really miss more info on The Other Two. Reading the book I was under the impression that it might be edited out for some reason, but I'm probably wrong...

There's very little on Electronic too, which is strange when you consider how massive the first album was. Marr's autobiography skims over them.

Very interested in Johnny's book. it's a shame exchange rates have gone skyrocket in my country. I'll try to save some cash for that one, top bloke