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If the music from Disc 2 of the 2008 reissue is included, this could be very good. I.e. Ceremony, Temptation, IALP, EGG, Procession, Cries & Whispers, Hurt, Mesh. I thought Hooky might stick to JD and Steve to NO. Guess I was wrong.
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Listened and followed this tonight. Intro to Procession afterwards felt like the hope and light after the darkness of Movement.But a good listening party.Well it was until Hooky couldn't help himself right at the end and had a nasty dig at Steve who had tweeted a few times during the party.
Fotz wrote: Hooky couldn't help himself right at the end and had a nasty dig at Steve who had tweeted a few times during the party.
He's an asshole, plain and simple.
And a friend got me an autographed poster from his Technique and Republic tour. I guess it'll stay rolled in the tube.
I haven't had the chance to listen/watch the listening party yet (I will replay it on catch-up over the next few days), but have just checked Twitter.
For this who aren't on Twitter, he said the following:
"Thanks everyone for listening! I really hope I can get back to playing this live for you soon. But I must admit, please don’t be fooled by all the togetherness shown in these listening parties.We have not spoken for nearly 9 years, have we Steve?"
There are a handful of people defending Hooky for this comment, saying that it could be an olive branch. There are also some people who feel that he spoilt the experience with that parting shot.
As regards whether it was an olive branch or a side-swipe, it seems more like the latter... but who knows? If his intention was to take small steps towards peace, it might've been a bit better to just thank Steve for his contributions throughout the evening...
Or just pick up the 'phone.
I'm wondering if Hooky was not particularly pleased with what he felt was 'interference' from Steve. I don't think Hooky commented during Steve's three Listening Parties, and perhaps he felt that this should've been reciprocated by Steve.
I know that we will never have the four of them back together, but surely it'd be better for all concerned if they made some effort to at least get along?
It'd certainly help me, as a fan. All this bad blood is just bothersome...
Reckon he was angry Steve joined in. Constant references to how well they played as a three piece and no mention of Gillian which was petty. And links to Light videos FFS. It's just The Hook Show and always will be. I don't think Steve has said a bad word about him despite his numerous cruel comments about Gillian.
I'm sure we've all worked with someone like him - imagine that for 30 years, and another 10 sniping like a child to anyone who will listen.
At the moment he posted the comment last night i immediately took it as a swipe at Steve and it ended the evening on a nasty note.This morning on reflection , maybe the "we haven't spoke for 9 years, have we Steve?" bit i suppose could be interpreted as an olive branch.But i'm more inclined to go with my original gut feeling from last night when i first saw the comment, it reads as a go at Steve.
Yep, i guess Steve contributing with earlier tweets put Hooky in an arsey mood.
How on earth does Hooky think Steve would have time for him after all the nasty stuff he's said about Gillian? Baffling.
And yes, as tapebias said above, Hooky posting The Light videos ? FFS.
Was it just me, or did it seem that Hooky mentioned ‘Barney couldn’t sing’ and ‘Barney couldn’t play and sing’ a little too often, it was almost like he was saying ‘It should have been me’ At the end of the day Barney was learning to sing on the job, I might be wrong but I thought Hooks jealousy was coming to the fore a bit.
As for the swipe at Steve, well Hooky, Steve is actually still in the band so is a little more qualified to talk about New Order than an ex member who has spent much of the last ten years trashing the band
Alex_Loyal wrote: Was it just me, or did it seem that Hooky mentioned ‘Barney couldn’t sing’ and ‘Barney couldn’t play and sing’ a little too often, it was almost like he was saying ‘It should have been me’ At the end of the day Barney was learning to sing on the job, I might be wrong but I thought Hooks jealousy was coming to the fore a bit.
Yep i noticed that too.Also Hooky repeatedly said about how they struggled with Martin Hannett and were relieved to work on their own after.I know it's a well known fact they didn't always get on or agree with Martin but Hooky didn't half keep banging on about it last night.
I didn't bother with this listening party as i don't really like movement
But i had a quick look through the tweets to see if i'd missed anything.....i honestly think the bloke has some sort of mental issue
The things he's said about gillian in the press and his book,totally dismisses her input with all the '3 piece' crap and then aims that at steve at the end....really??
Even if it was a very badly worded olive branch....who would take it after everything he's said about their wife
And also he obviously feels bitter about not being the singer....has he ever listened to himself?
lee wrote: I didn't bother with this listening party as i don't really like movement
But i had a quick look through the tweets to see if i'd missed anything.....i honestly think the bloke has some sort of mental issue
The things he's said about gillian in the press and his book,totally dismisses her input with all the '3 piece' crap and then aims that at steve at the end....really??
Even if it was a very badly worded olive branch....who would take it after everything he's said about their wife
And also he obviously feels bitter about not being the singer....has he ever listened to himself?
He's not even the best singer in The Light. Had the misfortune to see Revenge - one of the worst singers I've ever seen and don't get me started on the swinging elephant trunk arm.
Fotz wrote:
How on earth does Hooky think Steve would have time for him after all the nasty stuff he's said about Gillian? Baffling.
lee wrote: who would take it after everything he's said about their wife
I think this is where I have the most problem with what Hooky has said throughout the last 13 years.
Even if we believe what he has said regarding Gillian’s creative input (*), I think it’s one thing to significantly criticise a band mate. In my opinion, it’s something else entirely to start taking unfair shots at your friend’s wife. Particularly when you know that both individuals are not confrontational.
If Hooky had said those things about my wife, without provocation, I would be pretty upset. I therefore think both Steve and Gillian have been very classy in not rising to the obvious baiting.
(*) I personally believe that Gillian had a fairly significant input in the band’s songs. I can’t see either Barney or Hooky carrying any ‘dead weight’. But I wasn’t there, so who knows?
What I will say, and have said many times before, even if her creativity wasn’t as great as the others, she still put in the hours:
She still had to input all those sequencers lines. She still had to play all those gigs. She still had to put up with the leery jeers from some of the fans at gigs. She still had to put up with the (at times, very) bad behaviour of the rest of the band, Rob and the roadies.
And she appeared to do all this with dignity and class. I can’t think of a time where she’s ever been critical of Hooky, or anyone else, for that matter
For these reasons alone, I’d say she’s earned a great deal of respect.
Alex_Loyal wrote: Was it just me, or did it seem that Hooky mentioned ‘Barney couldn’t sing’ and ‘Barney couldn’t play and sing’ a little too often...
well Hooky has played JD/NO basslines for how many years now, and he's never learned how to play, and sing at the same time either. he's even admitted to it. hence why there's always been a second bass player in Revenge/Monaco/The Light.
... also can someone actually explain how these Twitter listening parties actually work? i just read the Tweets in real time as they are being posted. is there someone streaming the album somewhere to listen to, while the Tweets are being Tweeted? or are you supposed to listen to the album yourself, and just follow along?
spooky wrote:
Alex_Loyal wrote: Was it just me, or did it seem that Hooky mentioned ‘Barney couldn’t sing’ and ‘Barney couldn’t play and sing’ a little too often...
well Hooky has played JD/NO basslines for how many years now, and he's never learned how to play, and sing at the same time either. he's even admitted to it. hence why there's always been a second bass player in Revenge/Monaco/The Light.
... also can someone actually explain how these Twitter listening parties actually work? i just read the Tweets in real time as they are being posted. is there someone streaming the album somewhere to listen to, while the Tweets are being Tweeted? or are you supposed to listen to the album yourself, and just follow along?
Oh yeah, good point.What i've seen of The Light live videos, Jack plays bass on the parts where Hooky sings i think.
The listening parties, yes you have to cue up your own copy of the album and press play at the start time.
Been without internet for a week (thanks BT) so I missed all this. I wonder if I'm going to regret this post...
I am not here as Team Hooky or Team anyone, but my attempt to understand Mr Hook is:
He felt genuinely undermined by what "the others" did about re-defining NO whilst he was DJ-ing in Japan. The fact that he got a settlement suggests he may have had a valid point. But i think he was also personally hurt by "the way they did it", even if he hasn't quite said it.
All the interviews he gave between 2007 and the time of settlement were an opportunity to fight back. Often by saying unpleasant things. Regardless of whether he went about it the right way, he saw himself as wronged and therefore entitled to fight dirty just as he thinks the others did.
When they sorted their settlement, Hooky seemed to mellow a bit (his comment on twitter: "you can see both " referring to NO and The Light, comes to mind).
Watching some of the weekly Instagram interviews he has been doing with Jack recently, he talks about the emails/letters he gets from NO when they're sorting out business matters (PCL box set etc, I think). He seems genuinely bothered by the way they still talk to him in these communications. He suggests they are rather rude/cold.
He talks about JD and how NO celebrate their music more these days live ("Joy Division forever"). He says he hopes the other two (B&S) get to enjoy JD now, as he does when he plays JD with the Light. He sometimes speaks favourably (fondly?) of Gillian.
I think he would actually like the communications between the parties to be a bit warmer. He has stopped calling them names and even called them New Order (not The Other Lot etc) when talking about the O2 UK London gig that he thought they were gonna do this autumn.
I remember when Hooky was complaining when Steve did the first couple of listening parties that Tim hadn't "invited" him to take part. i suggested at the time that Tim may have been trying to avoid an awkward situation. I still think that was the case, and it seems that situation finally arose on Friday night. Hooky finds it weird that he and Steve pay each other compliments on twitter whilst simultaneously he receives communications from NO that genuinely bother him.
Whether he deserves to feel like this after all the comments he has made is of course, open to debate. This is just my take on how Peter Hook sees things.
I think you are correct with a lot of this.
However, there’s still a fair degree of ‘choice words’ being said by Hook.
At the last weekly chat, he referred to them as ‘New Odour’ again, so hasn’t totally given up on the public name-calling.
Having now watched the Twitter replay, I can confirm (as others have said above) that he keeps saying things like ‘the three of us really gelled on this LP’. The only time he mentions Gillian is during ‘Doubts Even Here’ when he said it was Martin’s idea to get her to read the scripture. He said he never liked this element of the song.
So, even if he has spoken fondly of Gillian occasionally in the past, he had a chance to, very publicly, praise her contribution. Or even acknowledge it. But he didn’t. In fact, one of the saved tweets on the replay is from someone asking Steve whether Gillian actually played on the LP, as Hooky appeared to be insinuating that she didn’t. Steve replied ‘The track sheets would seem to suggest she did’.
As regards the band communicating “coldly” with him, I’m guessing that they just use lawyers to discuss matters with him. Which, given the circumstances, seems a very sensible thing to do. Better to do that, in my opinion, than let conversation degrade into bickering and name-calling. Which it inevitably will.
I agree with you that Hooky obviously feels aggrieved at how he was treated. I also think that he has a point, in respect of certain matters. I’m sure he has been hurt by the band and that isn’t good.
However, as the person who tweeted Stephen stated, Hook ‘lets himself down’ with some of his comments, in a very public way.
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed Hook’s weekly chats and have really warmed to him again, after feeling a bit fed up with his comments a few years ago. He is charming, friendly and comes across as a genuine bloke.
However, he rarely misses an opportunity to ‘air the band’s dirty laundry’ and I just wish he’d reign this in a little.
I wish we could all be a bit more objective. Just because he was in NO doesn't mean his opinions mean anything any more or he cares about 'the fans' any more than lining his pockets. Same for New Order too. I'm only interested in new music so the endless nostalgia is a bit of a grind.
Hook could lighten up, have a laugh, make some new music instead of hawking the back catalogue around the world. Learn to play and sing at the same time like bass gods Mark King or Geddy Lee and diversify a bit. What's to look forward to apart from endless JD/NO retro sets and Cheshire Life features? Salford Rules my arse.
tapebias wrote: I wish we could all be a bit more objective. Just because he was in NO doesn't mean his opinions mean anything any more or he cares about 'the fans' any more than lining his pockets. Same for New Order too. I'm only interested in new music so the endless nostalgia is a bit of a grind.
Hook could lighten up, have a laugh, make some new music instead of hawking the back catalogue around the world. Learn to play and sing at the same time like bass gods Mark King or Geddy Lee and diversify a bit. What's to look forward to apart from endless JD/NO retro sets and Cheshire Life features? Salford Rules my arse.
Yes Very True, Peter needs to make some new music with Monaco, Enough with the JD/NO album playing he did enough of it all over the world, after all the years he definitely must have some new inspiration, new lyrics ,thought and ideas about new music, new bass chords and electronic beats for some great music, He should show the fans that he still has it in him and the fans will love hearing it, I just heard Blunts & Roberts collab he did with Crystal Method and was so impressed with it, even though it came out years ago I never gave it a listen till last week and it sounded great had such a nice New Order sound to it, why cant Peter make a new Monaco album with the New Order sound on it, Monaco's first album was amazing the second one was alright, so Peter come on
Linus Solanki wrote: after all the years he definitely must have some new inspiration, new lyrics ,thought and ideas about new music, new bass chords and electronic beats for some great musi
Yeah, no. He's 64. He doesn't have any new ideas or we'd already have the Monaco album that was hinted at last year or the year before (I can't be bothered to check).
He's finished as a creative voice and has nothing to do but sell nostalgia and snipe at his old band mates. He left New Order 13 years ago, which is one year longer than the run from Ceremony to Republic. In the words of Morrissey (another old c*nt) "GET OFF THE STAGE."
50poundnote wrote: In the words of Morrissey (another old c*nt) "GET OFF THE STAGE."
It's early days but could be Post of the Month.
Doubt he'd have the balls to do his own material as it would lower his 'market value' too much. Apart from a few hardcore fans no one's bothered about Monaco or Freebass now. He'll still be up there at 70 I reckon banging out JD tunes in his tassled loafers.
I have found that some fans - particularly on Twitter - have a slightly rose-tinted version of them all being best mates who have simply and tragically fallen out. I used to think that way too but it can be a bit cringe worthy seeing some people hectoring Hooky or Steve's Twitter accounts with replies like "Come on, just sort it out, pick up the phone and be mates!". Even Hook himself made it reasonably clear in his New Order book via various anecdotes that he and Steve weren't massively close. People imploring them to suddenly be so in 2020 simply doesn't make much sense. I am sure the sentiment is meant kindly, though.
Similarly Sumner and Hook are clearly very different characters, for better or worse and they both brought something irreplaceable to the table. Bernard produced a good quote years ago that what we as fans (and journalists) see is just a facade of New Order; it's the outside of a house you have no idea of what's going on inside of. That was a brilliant way of putting it and he managed to say it without making it sound like Hook was in the wrong (or he himself was). It was simply "Look, you don't know what's gone on and probably never will" and as a fan I can live with that.
Personally, I think what was in the "Substance: Inside New Order" book probably nailed the coffin shut on any type of reunion. Some of the stories in there were simply jaw dropping and while a great read for a fan who is nosey, not so much for the other band members to see aired so loudly in the public domain. I think that finished things off... and then some.
In the grand scheme of things a mini-spat over a Twitter listening party is probably the least of the issues to be worked through here ![[;)]](/emoticons/wink.gif){kind=small}
Not sure why hookys pissed Steve joined in? I didnt see it as interfering. Just joining in n tossing in a few fun bits. Like everyone else. Plus tim had steve doing it for ages now.
Plus hooky is outta his mind to expect any reaching out by steve after he totally spent numerous posts throwing snide shade at Gillian. So pretty sure steve wasnt thrilled with that.............
Hooky likes the drama, I think.
lee wrote: I didn't bother with this listening party as i don't really like movement
The thing i've often thought and still do about Movement is how immensely better the songs sounded live.They're not bad songs on the album it's just something about the production that ruins it a little for me .Also, the same for me with Everything's Gone Green, i love a lot of the live versions way more than the recorded one.
Totally agree with you regarding ‘Movement’s production, Fotz. A rare Hannett mis-step.
But saying that, I still really love it. Tracks like ‘Dreams Never End’, ‘Doubts Even Here’ ‘Denial’ and the absolutely magnificent ‘Chosen Time’ are incredible. Even more so, as you rightly point out, in their live versions.
I will partly disagree with you on ‘Everything’s Gone Green’ though. Although I’d agree that it always sounded stellar live, the studio version is still bloody wonderful.
Did I imagine it or did Steve comment at the end of the Twitter party and say ‘I’ll see what I can do’ when someone mentioned getting ‘Everything’s Gone Green’ and ‘Leave Me alone’ back into the set for the O2?
That would make my year. Maybe Bernard could borrow Ian’s Phantom Mk. VI off Natalie for the occasion.
Oh, and thinking of how the production killed a little bit of the power of ‘Movement’, those Cargo demos really show how great these songs could’ve sounded without the stifling production.
Absolutely LOVE those demos.
Having ‘Cries and Whispers’ and ‘Mesh’ in embryonic form like that was like suddenly discovering two ‘classic period’ New Order songs you’d never heard before. Stunning.
perspexorange, or whoever wants to pitch in... do you personally think steve "interfered" with hookys listening party as a spite/steal away thing? or just an innocent joining in? given he had been openly the one doing all the new order listening parties prior, and just sharing some fun stuff along with it? he did indeed share great goodies!
hooky was being an ass though with his gillian omitting nastiness.
SeasoningPacket wrote: perspexorange, or whoever wants to pitch in... do you personally think steve "interfered" with hookys listening party as a spite/steal away thing? or just an innocent joining in? given he had been openly the one doing all the new order listening parties prior, and just sharing some fun stuff along with it? he did indeed share great goodies!
hooky was being an ass though with his gillian omitting nastiness.
Nah, i don't think it was anything like spite.Nothing of the sort.I think Steve just gave into temptation to join in.He's probably a big fan of these listening parties after the previous few he's been involved with and maybe he's become a bit addicted to them? If he had stuff he was really keen to share and get out there and it added to the Movement listening party he would have found it hard to resist joining in.
Totally agree with Fotz. I think Steve was just joining in as he was enjoying talking about stuff he’s passionate about.
I don’t believe there’s a malicious bone in Steve’s body. I’ve never heard a bad word said about him, or a bad word said by him. Same goes for Gillian.
