New Order - Factory Cassettes, boxsets and more

yes, the famed boxsets.

i have 4/5. and substance is beat up on the outside, so i'll have to get another one.

here's various pictures of them, luckily most are in good shape on the inside, and i've never played the tapes or opened the boxes since i first got them to check.

later -1

Yep, that discolouring with the brown spots, kind of looks like rust spots, is exactly the same way mine have gone. Obviously it’s something that happens with linen?

Fotz wrote: Yep, that discolouring with the brown spots, kind of looks like rust spots, is exactly the same way mine have gone. Obviously it’s something that happens with linen?

probably, but all my copies were used. odd how the oldest one is in the best shape, and the newest one is turning brown.

later -1

Though actually the PC&L isn’t the oldest. The Low Life box was the first of the linen boxes , or at least the first of the New Order ones. The PC&L linen box was released sometime after.

Fotz wrote: Though actually the PC&L isn’t the oldest. The Low Life box was the first of the linen boxes , or at least the first of the New Order ones. The PC&L linen box was released sometime after.

do you remember the marketing, or what was going on. was it some kind of anniversary.

or was it because of substance, they decided to do all of them.

never saw these in the US, because of course we don't get anything cool. (except the dumb republic inflated cd vest).

canada got one of the cassette boxsets.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

Fotz wrote: Though actually the PC&L isn’t the oldest. The Low Life box was the first of the linen boxes , or at least the first of the New Order ones. The PC&L linen box was released sometime after.

do you remember the marketing, or what was going on. was it some kind of anniversary.

or was it because of substance, they decided to do all of them.

never saw these in the US, because of course we don't get anything cool. (except the dumb republic inflated cd vest).

canada got one of the cassette boxsets.

later -1

I just remember that the Low Life one was the first. It was released in September 1985, about 4 months later than the standard release vinyl. The PC&L one definitely came after, but I can’t remember if it was before the Brotherhood and Substance ones or after.

Here are mine (managed to dig them out today):

Movement is in great condition, apart from a tiny mark at the top:

Low Life is also in good condition, but it has discoloured slightly. There's a couple of small brownish marks on the back of the tracing paper too:

Brotherhood is easily the best, without any marks or discolouration:

Substance, on the other hand, is the worst. THere's a ding in the box and the insert is creased:

Excuse the orientation of some of these. I thought I'd rotated them, but something went screwy during the image upload.

Fotz wrote:

negative1 wrote:

Fotz wrote: Though actually the PC&L isn’t the oldest. The Low Life box was the first of the linen boxes , or at least the first of the New Order ones. The PC&L linen box was released sometime after.

do you remember the marketing, or what was going on. was it some kind of anniversary.

or was it because of substance, they decided to do all of them.

never saw these in the US, because of course we don't get anything cool. (except the dumb republic inflated cd vest).

canada got one of the cassette boxsets.

later -1

I just remember that the Low Life one was the first. It was released in September 1985, about 4 months later than the standard release vinyl. The PC&L one definitely came after, but I can’t remember if it was before the Brotherhood and Substance ones or after.

This should answer the question. This is from 'Smash Hits' dated 11-24/09/85.:

Looks like Fotz is correct about both 'Low Life' being first and the date.

perspexorange wrote:

This should answer the question. This is from 'Smash Hits' dated 11-24/09/85.:

Looks like Fotz is correct about both 'Low Life' being first and the date.

thanks and check out willowmans collection !!!

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/joy-division-new-order-albums.738006/page-64#post-26012753

later -1

Nice collection.

Never seen some of those before.

It looks like Substance seems to be the one where everyone’s copy is more battered. I wonder why.

Possibly due to everyone playing it more, maybe?

sorry, don't know anything about linen boxes aging. maybe a chemical reaction.

moving onto another cassette + cd hybrid, the best of promo box: https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-The-Best-Of-New-Order/release/506810

New Order ‎– (The Best Of) New Order Label: London Records ‎– none Format: Box Set, Promo CD, Compilation Cassette, Compilation Country: UK Released: Nov 1994 Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: Synth-pop, Indie Rock TracklistShow Credits CD 1 True Faith-94 5:34 CD 2 Bizarre Love Triangle-94 3:53 CD 3 1963-94 3:47 CD 4 Regret 4:07 CD 5 Fine Time 3:08 CD 6 The Perfect Kiss 4:48 CD 7 Shell Shock 4:26 CD 8 Thieves Like Us 6:35 CD 9 Vanishing Point 5:14 CD 10 Run 4:26 CD 11 Round & Round-94 3:59 CD 12 World (Price Of Love) 3:39 CD 13 Ruined In A Day 3:58 CD 14 Touched By The Hand Of God 3:47 CD 15 Blue Monday-88 4:10 CD 16 World In Motion 4:30 MC A1 True Faith-94 5:34 MC A2 Bizarre Love Triangle-94 3:53 MC A3 1963-94 3:47 MC A4 Regret 4:07 MC A5 Fine Time 3:08 MC A6 The Perfect Kiss 4:48 MC A7 Shellshock 4:26 MC A8 Thieves Like Us 6:35 MC B1 Vanishing Point 5:14 MC B2 Run 4:26 MC B3 Round & Round-94 3:59 MC B4 World (Price Of Love) 3:39 MC B5 Ruined In A Day 3:58 MC B6 Touched By The Hand Of God 3:47 MC B7 Blue Monday-88 4:10 MC B8 World In Motion 4:30 Total Time: 2:20:02 Credits Producer – Mike "Spike" Drake (tracks: CD 1 to CD 3, CD 11, MC A1 to A3, MC B3), New Order (tracks: CD 4 to CD 10, CD 12 to CD 15. MC A4 MC A8, MC B1, MC B2, MC B4 to MC B7), Stephen Hague (tracks: CD 1 to CD 4, CD 11 to CD 13, CD 16, MC A1 to MC A4, MC B3 to MC B5, MC B8) Notes Promo box set.

Includes standard UK retail editions of the CD (828 580-2) and Cassette (828 580-4), plus a fold-out chronological discography card.

"All tracks produced by New Order, except the '94 versions."

Track 10: Run is mistitled Run 2 on both CD and Cassette editions.

I stuck my little moving puzzle in there.

later -1

Wasn’t there a box set that actually contained the puzzle as standard?

I bought one of the puzzles from Record Peddler on Swan Street in Manchester. Probably the week ‘? (best of)’ was released.

That shop used to have all sorts of interesting Factory stuff in it. My mate bought a copy of ‘Technique’ on DAT there. In a display case they had the ‘Twelve Inches Of New Order’ and ‘Blue Monday 1988 Flicker Book’. I may be misremembering, but I think they had one of those ‘Little Lewie’ ‘Round & Round’ busts too.

Thanks for that Smash Hits cutting, P. Is that a cutting you own or did you find that image online somewhere?

Regarding the PC&L linen box, Discogs appears to state it was released in April 1986 which sounds about right.

Fotz wrote: Thanks for that Smash Hits cutting, P. Is that a cutting you own or did you find that image online somewhere?

I found the image online. There are a couple of good sites that have images from 'Smash Hits, 'Record Mirror' and 'No. 1'.

This is actually a cutting I don't own. I know this as, coincidentally, I was actually scanning all my 1985 cuttings only yesterday.

Although I have a tonne of cuttings, most of them are from NME, Melody Maker, Sounds & Record Mirror. I own a lot of the 'main' articles from 'Smash Hits' or 'No. 1', but don't have a lot of the smaller stuff from these publications (single reviews, news articles etc.).

Thankfully though, those websites mentioned above have helped to fill the gaps (digitally speaking, of course).

PS My scanning project is going quite nicely. I'm all the way up to the end of 1985. Some of the scans aren't the best, whilst some have come out quite nicely. All are very legible though.

Over 500 individual images scanned. Crikey, that's a lot.

I must be mad. Still, what else have I got to do these days. The Nag's Head's loss is the New Order community's gain.

Doh, the PC&L box does actually state on the cassette © 1986 Factory Communications. So , deffo 1986 then.

Of the 3 boxes I have ( could have sworn I had the Brotherhood one also..) the Low Life one is in worst condition. Shocking.

Did you have those from new, Fotz?

If so, that's kind of incredible how badly the second two have discoloured. When I've seen similar ones online, I've always assumed they've been sitting on a rack in some small, pokey old record shop for the last 30 years.

The linen must degrade under certain normal conditions (exposure to dust etc.). I think, when I was living at my mum's, mine were out on a shelf, but have been packed away in a box for the last 25+ years. Presumably this has slowed down the discolouration.

^ Yes, they were most definitely all from new.

Sounds like my kind of party.

I'll whip mine out:

[albumimg]159[/albumimg]

Condition is reasonable; these really weren't designed to last!

A complete JD/NO set! Very impressive.

Again, it looks like Substance is the most discoloured. I wonder why that is. Has to be due to people playing it more frequently. I guess it’s always possible that that particular set was made with slightly different materials.

perspexorange wrote: I guess it’s always possible that that particular set was made with slightly different materials.

Low-life was released in 1985, then Factory started producing the others in 1986 which, if I'm not mistaken, were exclusive to Woolworths?

Substance wouldn't have been released until 1987. I'm guessing it may be a slightly different material, plus the fact that it held 2 cassettes so it required extra handling.

My copy is also beat to hell.

I have 2 copies of the standard cassette shells housed in a little slipcase, making a block. Actually, I have 8 different copies of Substance: US CD "fat boy" jewel case, linen cassette box, 2 UK slipcase blocks, US cassette, US LP with embossing, the gatefold for Factory employees, and one of those bootlegs pressed on blue and yellow vinyl. Side note - those bootlegs use the CD as the master, because The Perfect Kiss is edited.

I've definitely got a distinct memory of buying Brotherhood from either John Menzies or WHSmith, but basically they're the same shop in my town. After Menzies closed, WHSmith opened in the same building. I think the latter purchased the former. Wikipedia states this happened in 1998, but I'm pretty sure our branch changed prior to that. Probably about 1990, I think. Around about the time that I bought the tape.

So, copies of Brotherhood certainly got out to shops other than Woolies, even if they weren't meant to. Maybe they were timed exclusives when first sold, but by 1990, anyone could see them.

I do think, though, that I probably bought one of my tapes from Woolies. Movement maybe (my Low Life and Substance are both second-hand, whilst Movement and Brotherhood were bought new, I think).

I also remember that that Menzies/Smiths shop had a beat up copy of Low Life. I was thinking of buying it, but it was so tatty, I decided against it.

I've also got multiple copies of Substance on tape. Three to be precise.

When I first got into the band, a mate of mine gave me his copy on tape. As he called it, it was on 'permanent loan' to me. It had a slipcase but was pretty battered by the time I got it (I think he must've sat on it as it wasn't old when he leant it to me; it was still 1987). After playing it multiple times, tape 2 got shredded by my player.

I then went out and bought another copy. This also had the slipcase, but were different tapes to the above. I can't remember which one is which now (my tapes aren't to hand) but one set of tapes was made of clear plastic, whilst the other set was made of black plastic.

My third copy (the linen box) was bought a few years later, second-hand.

https://bid.omegaauctions.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-191---factory-cassette-box-sets-inc-a-certain-ratio-new-order-joy-division-etc/?lot=3414&so=0&st=postcard&sto=0&au=14&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=0&pp=48&pn=1&g=1#

7 of the linen boxes sold for £200 last week

It does appear that it's very difficult to keep the boxes in good condition. Especially the New Order ones.

My linen boxes ..in decent nick to be fair ..kept in plastic and out of daylight ! JD one in worse nick.

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Sorry! just getting to grips on how to post pictures ..

Wow! That's a really nice collection. A Full House of New Order and a bonus JD one. Yours look in great condition too. Both cards complete for PC&L. Fab stuff.

Substance appears to be the only one showing any sign of age, although it's definitely in much better condition than most copies, it seems.

Again, it prescribes to the theory that Substance was made of slightly different materials than the others, or, possibly has just been handled by fans more.

Did you buy yours from new, second-hand or a combination of both?

thanks for the responses and great pictures everyone.

does anyone listen to these cassettes, or are they just for show.

i've never listened to any of them, or opened up the boxes more than twice now. once when i bought them.

and now to take a picture of what was inside.

did people actually send the postcards.

later -1

No I never listen to them anymore. Probably did back in the day in the 80s, last time I would’ve played one would probably have been in the 90s sometime.Can’t even remember now where the full length TPK and Kiss of Death featured on the Low Life cassette.Was the full length TPK after Sunrise at the end side one? And then the Kiss of Death and Perfect Pit after Face Up at the end of side two? Think It was something like that.

Fotz wrote: No I never listen to them anymore. Probably did back in the day in the 80s, last time I would’ve played one would probably have been in the 90s sometime.Can’t even remember now where the full length TPK and Kiss of Death featured on the Low Life cassette.Was the full length TPK after Sunrise at the end side one? And then the Kiss of Death and Perfect Pit after Face Up at the end of side two? Think It was something like that.

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Low-life/release/114331

New Order ‎– Low-life Label: Factory ‎– Fact 100c Format: Cassette, Album Box Set Country: UK Released: 1985 Genre: Electronic Style: Synth-pop Tracklist A1 Love Vigilantes A2 The Perfect Kiss A3 This Time Of Night A4 Sunrise A5 The Perfect Kiss (Fac 123)

B1 Elegia B2 Sooner Than You Think B3 Sub-Culture B4 Face Up B5 The Kiss Of Death B6 Perfect Pit

later -1

I think I may have played Brotherhood (the first one I got) a handful of times and maybe Movement (the second tape I got) once or twice.

To be honest though, after my standard version of Substance getting chewed up, I learned a valuable lesson about playing tapes you considered ‘collectors items’. Instead, I used to have copies of Movement / PC&L and Low Life / Brotherhood on two TDK SA-90s, and used these for my main listening pleasure.

I seem to think I had a standard version of Low Life on cassette too. It had a plain white cover (apart from the text of course).
Don’t think I risked that in my tape player very often either.

My Substance has also discoloured in a different way to the rest of the white New Order ones, and it is one that I had from brand new

I bought Substance on normal cassette (in the fat double cassette box version) for all the extra b-sides, but it got chewed within a couple of weeks, after non-stop play, so took it back They only had the white linen box versions in stock by then so it was a good swap

I already had the Brotherhood one, which I got in the sale when RE Cords in Derby closed down

Then got Movement next from Virgin (when Virgin was a department in the local Debenhams!)

PCL & Low Life I picked up later in life when I started to collect the boxes. Got them all now, the Wim Mertens one being the hardest to get

GotBlueEyes wrote: My Substance has also discoloured in a different way to the rest of the white New Order ones, and it is one that I had from brand new

Over the last couple of days, I've seen a few collections of tapes online. Substance, again, seems to have discoloured more than the others.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

I bought Substance on normal cassette (in the fat double cassette box version) for all the extra b-sides, but it got chewed within a couple of weeks, after non-stop play, so took it back

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

GotBlueEyes wrote: Got them all now, the Wim Mertens one being the hardest to get

Congrats! Sounds like a fine collection! I'm pretty jealous.

Yeah, the cool thing about collecting is you pay through your hooter for stuff you never play cos you already bought it and don't wanna risk damaging. I remember seeing these cassettes but I never had any money back then.

perspexorange wrote:

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

For longer durations of cassettes, the tape needed to be thinner to fit in the cassette - that's why longer tapes like D120s used to split quite often.

The Substance B-side tracks total 94 mins, but because of track lengths, the music on side 1 of the tape is longer at 51 mins long - making the total length of the whole tape around 102 mins - and with 7-8 mins of silence after 1963 on side 2. I think it's the longest pre-recorded and released tape I ever owned. Mine never split, but got churned up about the second or third time I got to 1963, making it (and, in turn 'Procession' at the same point into the tape on side 1) sound crappy and muffled - so I bought a later release of it at a later date!

perspexorange wrote:

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

Definitely this, I think they used to say it was because the tape is thinned out to make longer reels that still fit in the casing and not put additional weight strain on the cassette motors. But then if the tape jolts at any point as the motor strains, because it's thinner it's more likely to then have a loose section that gets caught in the pinch roller

Thanks both.

It confirmed my suspicions.

Yeah I think that’s why Dec Hickey as he said in his book only used 60 minute tapes for recording gigs as, I guess other bootleggers also did. Less chance later on of the tape meeting a nasty and premature end.

Yep, all 3 of my Factory / Substance / cassette #2 had/have issues. Old school heavy duty tape decks would wear them out after a while because the tape was too tight and/or heavy in the shell, and my modern cassette player doesn't have enough power to turn it.

i am the most paranoid person ever. so that's why i never played those cassette tapes.

also, the commercial ones i did have were copied on a tape dubbing machine, so i would never wear out the latter originals. (of course i had cheap US cassettes that I did wear out).

(not necessarily this model)

but later on i got smarter, and even bought Metal tapes for recording stuff from vinyl and other sources, still have those and they sound great.

later -1

i would love to find this set:

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Retro/release/14854530

later -1

here's my small cassette collection : the new zealand blue monday one is harder to find, and maybe the world UK one with the exclusive mix on it.

later -1

negative1 wrote: here's my small cassette collection : the new zealand blue monday one is harder to find, and maybe the world UK one with the exclusive mix on it.

later -1

I have that FAC305c. A nice item, which seemed like a pretty cool thing for Factory to do at the time.

That was the first time I ever heard the Hague mix of BLT, which is my favourite mix of that song.

It also had a really nice (and rare) mix of ‘Big Bang’ by Revenge called ‘The Trouble With Girls’.

Which exclusive ‘World’ mix? Not sure I knew about that.

^ I think what negative means is there is an exclusive mix on the cassette but it’s not of World. it’s an exclusive mix of Vicious Circle, different from on the World CD single? I do have that World cassette single, will have to dig it out & listen to and check again on the Vicious Circle mix.It’s a different mix from the one on the CD single.I

Edit: oh hang on, I’m getting mixed up with the Ruined In A Day cassette single , so no I don’t know about an exclusive mix on the World cassette single ( which in fact I DON’T have)

Edit 2: Actually I DO have the World cassette single, just dug it out but it doesn’t have an exclusive mix on , it has the radio edit and Perfecto edit . Maybe the radio edit is exclusive?

I also have a few those above but not the Bue Monday New Zealand.I have the Select magazine Fac 305C cassette with the exclusive Hague mix of BLT

Here’s a selection of my NO, Electronic and Revenge cassettes. I have the Select mag 305C one too but it must be in another box upstairs somewhere.

Oh and also the Music Complete cassette that was in the Japanese box edition

Fotz wrote: ^ I think what negative means is there is an exclusive mix on the cassette but it’s not of World. it’s an exclusive mix of Vicious Circle, different from on the World CD single? I do have that World cassette single, will have to dig it out & listen to and check again on the Vicious Circle mix.It’s a different mix from the one on the CD single.I

Edit: oh hang on, I’m getting mixed up with the Ruined In A Day cassette single , so no I don’t know about an exclusive mix on the World cassette single ( which in fact I DON’T have)

Edit 2: Actually I DO have the World cassette single, just dug it out but it doesn’t have an exclusive mix on , it has the radio edit and Perfecto edit . Maybe the radio edit is exclusive?

sorry guys, i did mix it up, it was the ruined in a day cassette.

but the 'platinum on black' cassette, is what i should have been referring to: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/13322818

Various ‎– Platinum On Black Label: FFRR ‎– 697 124 005-4 Format: Cassette, Mixed Country: US Released: 1993 Genre: Electronic Style: House TracklistShow Credits

B6 –New Order World 5:53

Total Time: 38:35

New Order World Producer – New Order, Stephen Hague Remix, Producer [Additional] – Paul Oakenfold & Steve Osborne 5:53

i haven't listened to it, so i think it's exclusive.

the cd, had the normal perfecto edit: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/79058 New Order World (Perfecto Edit) 4:04

the US promo LP has the same timing: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/346926

New Order World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Edit) 5:53

all other versions have this: World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Edit) 4:04

I also have a few those above but not the Bue Monday New Zealand.I have the Select magazine Fac 305C cassette with the exclusive Hague mix of BLT

Here’s a selection of my NO, Electronic and Revenge cassettes. I have the Select mag 305C one too but it must be in another box upstairs somewhere.

Oh and also the Music Complete cassette that was in the Japanese box edition

yeah, i was going to post that cassette later one, because i found a few more new order ones.

later -1

^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

The Hague mix of BLT is also on the Married To The Mob soundtrack which I have on CD. Almost the same as the version on 'The Best Of' but has a little more reverb, and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

Fotz wrote: ^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

Anyone confirmed the 5.53 timing of this version? Sometimes times are misstated on sleeves. Could be just another early fade I guess.

Corporate pigs London spread the Ruined Bsides so you had to buy each format for an exclusive: Vicious Circles No mix (cassette), VC Haas and Ambient (CD), World dub (12"), three pieces of Pooh (CD 2). Each track was specially commissioned by London, each track was exclusive to its format, and each track was total and utter fucking shit. The only decent thing to come out of that was the K-Klarse mix, which they must've liked cos it was used on TOTP, Radio 1's Top 40 and the Rest Of, though they also used the Ambient one at some 93 gigs.

^ I disagree agree with you Michael on your Vicious Circle opinion. I like both versions of it.

It’s been years since I heard the NO version of Vicious Circle. This is the problem with putting something exclusive on a format that was dying out even back in 1993.

It's not bad, but lacks the warmth and personality of the Technique and Electronic Bsides. Gotta have house... Music! In 1993. You can understand why they're so highly considered. Still, good to get an original track amid the endless rehashes. I also had that Select tape and It was the first time I heard Hage's BLT. It'd be the definitive mix but the silly sod cut the second instrumental break, which is an integral part of the experience. The Trouble with Girls (classic Revenge feminism) was an exclusive take on Big Bang, one of the more listenable One True Song moments, and it eluded compilation till LTM. There was also Wende, an early Bleachman, I think. Still crud, though. Ultimately, Revenge were just a pretext to tour, though Gun World Porn is worthwhile, but they were pretty much Monaco by then. I loved the fact Hooky insisted they were a democracy with equally important members, but no one else appeared in the Pineapple Feces vid, and he shelved the whole thing for Killing Joke. I'm sure he'd've allowed Hicks the same liberty.

Yeah the “Gotta have house… Music!”was a bit ,I don’t know, I just thought it was a bit of a joke. But there’s some good synth ideas on both versions

It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

perspexorange wrote: It’s been years since I heard the NO version of Vicious Circle. This is the problem with putting something exclusive on a format that was dying out even back in 1993.

i've transferred it and cleaned it up ages ago.

also here's someone else posting it:

later -1

Mr Discography wrote:

Fotz wrote: ^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

Anyone confirmed the 5.53 timing of this version? Sometimes times are misstated on sleeves. Could be just another early fade I guess.

well, i will check it out, i'm pretty sure i did when i got the cassette.

if i ever get the vinyl, i could check that too.

later -1

Mr Discography wrote: and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

During the Substance Tour Steve played that bit on the synth, so I think Barney was copying him when he redid the vocal. I've always loved that as well.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

Hooky sort of finished it by reusing his riff on Monaco's Sweet Lips.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: There was also Wende, an early Bleachman, I think.

'Wende' was an early version of 'Slave'. 'Hot Nights, Cool City' / 'Bleachboy' was an early version of 'Bleachman'.

To paraphrase Alan Partridge, "Stop Getting Revenge Wrong!!!"

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

During the Substance Tour Steve played that bit on the synth, so I think Barney was copying him when he redid the vocal. I've always loved that as well.

Yep, that's the bit that I specifically like about the mix. Oh, that and the wonderful way it ends, with the twinkling keyboard sound. Lovely stuff! It's just a fabulous version.

I'm not always Hague's biggest fan for his work with New Order (although I love his work with other bands; PSBs for instance). I tend to feel that he suits more 'electronic' records; not so much with songs that should use 'proper' instruments. Hence, IMHO, his work shines on that mix of BLT, World In Motion & Round & Round (the 12" is sublime). But True Faith, for instance, sounds a bit neutered to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still love that track, but the production loses some of the power for me. The drums, for instance, should be 'harder'. Live versions sound fantastic, for instance. Well, they used to, before the song got changed to that bloody awful version that we've had since '98.

Mr Discography wrote: The Hague mix of BLT is also on the Married To The Mob soundtrack which I have on CD. Almost the same as the version on 'The Best Of' but has a little more reverb, and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

Yeah, I realised that a little while after getting that Select tape. I picked up a bootleg of 'Rare Mixes' fromm a record fair in the early 90s. It had that version, plus the exclusive edits of 'Temptation' and 'True Faith' from the 'Something Wild' and 'Bright Lights, Big City' soundtracks respectively. There were other tracks too, but can't remember what ('Salvation!' tracks maybe).

Sounds like you picked up The Remix CD which I mentioned. The RIAD Fazed n Dazed mix can't be official and I suspect the monger himself made it to convince completists they 'needed' it. I'm amazed I know as much about Revenge as I do, given that they are total and utter shit. It tells you more about the state of my social '''life'' in 1990 than the quality of the actual music. Yeah, Hague is essentially a pop producer and Republic is too poppy. But his BLT is tantalisingly close to the best. The funny part about the Best Of Is that I first heard TF ,Perfuckedo and 1963 95 so I thought it was Hague and he'd knocked himself out. I later discovered the 94 versions were almost exactly the same as his originals: BLT OST, and TF-63-R+R 7"s. Well worth the salary.

Andy wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

Hooky sort of finished it by reusing his riff on Monaco's Sweet Lips.

... Whose Bside also includes Everything's Gangrene. How does he do it? What's his secret? I guess we'll never know.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Sounds like you picked up The Remix CD which I mentioned. The RIAD Fazed n Dazed mix can't be official and I suspect the monger himself made it to convince completists they 'needed' it.

Now that you come to mention it, I think I did pick up that Remix CD. Is it the one with the Racic mix of 'Paradise' on it? If so, I think I bought it from one of the shops inside Manchester's Corn Exchange (that building was a veritable Aladdin's Cave of interesting stores. Sadly, the IRA bomb in 1996 put an end to that).

That being said, I definitely had those exclusive soundtrack mixes on a bootleg tape first. It wasn't the best of quality. Would've got in about 1991-2. That Remix CD was from about 1994, wasn't it?

Here we go:

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-The-Remix/release/7706942

I hadn't remembered that they were also on that CD, although they were probably my main reason for buying it, looking at the track listing. As well, as having the 'Paradise' and 'Run 2' mixes on CD.

1 Subculture (Dubvulture Mix) 8:11 2 Confusion (DMC Mix) 5:25 3 Run 2 (Extended Mix) 5:43 4 Paradise (Bounty Mix) 6:34 5 Ruined In A Day (Phased & Dazed) 4:01 6 Blue Monday (DJ Only Club Mix) 7:38 7 True Faith (Bright Lights, Big City) 5:49 8 Temptation (Wild Mix) 3:30 9 Bizarre Love Triangle (Married To The Mob Mix) 3:55 10 Megaorder (Megatrax Mix) 17:59 11 Sister Ray (Oz's Live & Dangerous Mix)

I'm sure that 'Bounty Mix' was the Racic mix. I think you're correct about the 'Phased And Dazed' mix being 'fan made', although I haven't listened to that CD in years (i'm not even sure I know where it is).

Oh, and I listened to the 'Vicious Circle' New Order mix for the first time in donkey's years today. I was pleasantly surprised I think it sounds better than the Haas mix. It's a decent little piece of music. Better than I remember it.

Yeah, that's the one. I bought It in late 95 at a Cumbridge record fair. As I mentioned, It was a bit of a piss take cos all I needed were RIAD (bolox), Sister Ray Oz (never worked out which gig), Paradise (inessential) and BM (a Bonkers Beach Buggy 12").

getting back to cassettes,

i mentioned discrete campaigns in the bootleg vinyl,

but here's the pics from discogs (mines in a box somewhere)

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Discreet-Campaigns/release/385745

Various ‎– Discreet Campaigns Label: Rorschach Testing Product ‎– ror 1 Format: Cassette, Compilation Country: UK Released: 1985 Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: Abstract, Industrial, Experimental, Indie Rock, New Wave, Post-Punk TracklistShow Credits B9 –New Order Sunrise (Instrumental Rough Mix) 5:39 Total Time: 1:21:26

later -1

i'm not sure how i ended up buying the italian import of movement, but the local music store in the mid80's had it. and it was just a regular store, and not one that got imports.

italian 'movement': https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Movement/release/1684503

New Order ‎– Movement Label: Base Record ‎– FACT. 50, Base Record ‎– FAC 50 MC Format: Cassette, Album Country: Italy Released: 1981 Genre: Rock Style: New Wave Tracklist A1 Dreams Never End 3:07 A2 Truth 4:32 A3 Senses 4:38 A4 Chosen Time 4:05 B1 ICB 4:26 B2 The Him 5:23 B3 Doubts Even Here 4:13 B4 Denial 4:16 Total Time: 34:40

later -1

negative1 wrote: i'm not sure how i ended up buying the italian import of movement, but the local music store in the mid80's had it. and it was just a regular store, and not one that got imports.

This reminds me that there are some hilarious black market cassette versions of New Order albums on Discogs

Not that funny.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Not that funny.

Oh yeah and what makes you the expert on being unfunny ?

7.40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYMkHtoRUbw

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Not that funny.

Oh yeah and what makes you the expert on being unfunny ?

I think we all know he's an expert at not being funny.

here is my discreet campaigns cassette, finally found it:

later -1

got the movement cassette today, sure it's a little stained, but the insides are in mint condition.

i might get another substance one, and experiment to see if the stain can be taken out by bleaching, or steaming maybe... hmm..

later -1

here is my featuremist booklet (can't find the cassette, its generic!!!!, never put the labels on it, oh well).

i guess i should get the remaster too:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Feature-Mist/master/1022708

Various ‎– Feature Mist Genre: Electronic, Non-Music Style: Modern Classical, Ambient, Spoken Word, Synth-pop Year: 1982 Tracklist –Vladimir Mayakovsky Final Verse, "Last Poem" –New Order Video 586 - 1 –Soliman Gamil The New Nubia –Robert Wyatt From An Interview –The Death And Beauty Foundation Song Of The Houseproud Ghost –Hanns Eisler & Vladimir Mayakovsky Subbotnik –Eric Random Meets The Bedlamites In Cassette Conference –Simple Minds King Is White –Tuxedomoon Shelved Dreams –Dmitri Shostakovich Waltz From "The Bedbug" –New Order Video 586 - 2 –Flesh Hesitate

later -1

here is my 'fake' Technique Cassette Boxset

• canvas with wood, 2 halves
• bronze hinges
• bronze clasp
• 6 photo replicas of singles
• UK Cassette

YES, this is from 'artsy craftsy' project, that i made. so i'll be making a few more for the rest of the albums, and a double 'black' one, thats 8x10 for substance...

later -1

eBay caveat emptor!

waiting for the sirens call - indonesian cassette:

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Waiting-For-The-Sirens-Call/release/1688889

New Order ‎– Waiting For The Sirens' Call Label: London Records ‎– HWO 5913, London Records ‎– 82564622024, London Records ‎– 25646 2202 2, Warner Bros. Records ‎– HWO 5913, Warner Bros. Records ‎– 82564622024, Warner Bros. Records ‎– 25646 2202 2 Format: Cassette, Album Country: Indonesia Released: 2005 Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: Synth-pop, Indie Rock TracklistShow Credits A1 Who's Joe? 5:43 A2 Hey Now What You Doing 5:13 A3 Waiting For The Sirens' Call 5:40 A4 Krafty 4:33 A5 I Told You So 5:58 A6 Morning Night And Day 5:08 B1 Dracula's Castle 5:38 B2 Jetstream 5:21 B3 Guilt Is A Useless Emotion 5:37 B4 Turn 4:33 B5 Working Overtime 3:27 Total Time: 56:51

later -1

Japanese Low Life Cassette

How about this one? Never seen it before.

here are my 3 most recent ones, the re-issued tape, UK republic, and thai Get Ready

here's the most recent ones, UK, US technique, UK, US republic, get ready, waiting for the sirens call, music complete

later -1

FACt: Looking at New Order releases is more enjoyable than listening to them, especially during the London years.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

PCL & Low Life I picked up later in life when I started to collect the boxes. Got them all now, the Wim Mertens one being the hardest to get

Talking of the rare Wim Mertens yellow linen box - I thought I'd paid through the nose to complete my collection when I got mine on ebay about 10 years ago for £300

But one just went for more than double that

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185136244879

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Talking of the rare Wim Mertens yellow linen box - I thought I'd paid through the nose to complete my collection when I got mine on ebay about 10 years ago for £300

But one just went for more than double that

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/185136244879

I paid $220 (£162 by today's exchange rate) in 2005 for one in absolutely perfect condition.

-Mike

Twenty years!!! F**k.

[TWITTER]1601200338794840065[/TWITTER]

Debaser wrote: Twenty years!!! F**k.

[TWITTER]1601200338794840065[/TWITTER]

Crazy. It was quite a disappointment after all those years of being teased with Recycle.

I replied to that tweet with a photo of my 5 disc edition.

Yeah like Andy said, Retro was a bit crap after rumours or promises of Recycle . I vaguely recall reading that there would be CDs of each & every single and multi tracks of all included.Recall the only good things about Retro were the live disc and bonus disc. And maybe the book

There was such massive vitriol on the old NO forum when the tracklisting for Retro was announced that lead to the bonus disc with unreleased rarities being added last minute to appease

here's a fun pickup, the canadian Fine Time cassette single:

one of the many pickups for 2022. will post a list shortly.

later -1