New Order - Factory Cassettes, boxsets and more

My Substance has also discoloured in a different way to the rest of the white New Order ones, and it is one that I had from brand new

I bought Substance on normal cassette (in the fat double cassette box version) for all the extra b-sides, but it got chewed within a couple of weeks, after non-stop play, so took it back They only had the white linen box versions in stock by then so it was a good swap

I already had the Brotherhood one, which I got in the sale when RE Cords in Derby closed down

Then got Movement next from Virgin (when Virgin was a department in the local Debenhams!)

PCL & Low Life I picked up later in life when I started to collect the boxes. Got them all now, the Wim Mertens one being the hardest to get

GotBlueEyes wrote: My Substance has also discoloured in a different way to the rest of the white New Order ones, and it is one that I had from brand new

Over the last couple of days, I've seen a few collections of tapes online. Substance, again, seems to have discoloured more than the others.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

I bought Substance on normal cassette (in the fat double cassette box version) for all the extra b-sides, but it got chewed within a couple of weeks, after non-stop play, so took it back

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

GotBlueEyes wrote: Got them all now, the Wim Mertens one being the hardest to get

Congrats! Sounds like a fine collection! I'm pretty jealous.

Yeah, the cool thing about collecting is you pay through your hooter for stuff you never play cos you already bought it and don't wanna risk damaging. I remember seeing these cassettes but I never had any money back then.

perspexorange wrote:

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

For longer durations of cassettes, the tape needed to be thinner to fit in the cassette - that's why longer tapes like D120s used to split quite often.

The Substance B-side tracks total 94 mins, but because of track lengths, the music on side 1 of the tape is longer at 51 mins long - making the total length of the whole tape around 102 mins - and with 7-8 mins of silence after 1963 on side 2. I think it's the longest pre-recorded and released tape I ever owned. Mine never split, but got churned up about the second or third time I got to 1963, making it (and, in turn 'Procession' at the same point into the tape on side 1) sound crappy and muffled - so I bought a later release of it at a later date!

perspexorange wrote:

I remember hearing once, back in the day, that the longer the tape, the more likely it was of getting chewed up. Not sure how true this is or the reason for this. It might be due to the additional weight of the reel with the extra tape on it or similar. It might just be down to the fact that a longer tape will be in a player for longer so, statistically speaking, it'll increase its chances of getting mangled.

If this is true, Substance, being considerably longer than most LPs, would be more susceptible to this.

Definitely this, I think they used to say it was because the tape is thinned out to make longer reels that still fit in the casing and not put additional weight strain on the cassette motors. But then if the tape jolts at any point as the motor strains, because it's thinner it's more likely to then have a loose section that gets caught in the pinch roller

Thanks both.

It confirmed my suspicions.

Yeah I think that’s why Dec Hickey as he said in his book only used 60 minute tapes for recording gigs as, I guess other bootleggers also did. Less chance later on of the tape meeting a nasty and premature end.

Yep, all 3 of my Factory / Substance / cassette #2 had/have issues. Old school heavy duty tape decks would wear them out after a while because the tape was too tight and/or heavy in the shell, and my modern cassette player doesn't have enough power to turn it.

i am the most paranoid person ever. so that's why i never played those cassette tapes.

also, the commercial ones i did have were copied on a tape dubbing machine, so i would never wear out the latter originals. (of course i had cheap US cassettes that I did wear out).

(not necessarily this model)

but later on i got smarter, and even bought Metal tapes for recording stuff from vinyl and other sources, still have those and they sound great.

later -1

i would love to find this set:

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Retro/release/14854530

later -1

here's my small cassette collection : the new zealand blue monday one is harder to find, and maybe the world UK one with the exclusive mix on it.

later -1

negative1 wrote: here's my small cassette collection : the new zealand blue monday one is harder to find, and maybe the world UK one with the exclusive mix on it.

later -1

I have that FAC305c. A nice item, which seemed like a pretty cool thing for Factory to do at the time.

That was the first time I ever heard the Hague mix of BLT, which is my favourite mix of that song.

It also had a really nice (and rare) mix of ‘Big Bang’ by Revenge called ‘The Trouble With Girls’.

Which exclusive ‘World’ mix? Not sure I knew about that.

^ I think what negative means is there is an exclusive mix on the cassette but it’s not of World. it’s an exclusive mix of Vicious Circle, different from on the World CD single? I do have that World cassette single, will have to dig it out & listen to and check again on the Vicious Circle mix.It’s a different mix from the one on the CD single.I

Edit: oh hang on, I’m getting mixed up with the Ruined In A Day cassette single , so no I don’t know about an exclusive mix on the World cassette single ( which in fact I DON’T have)

Edit 2: Actually I DO have the World cassette single, just dug it out but it doesn’t have an exclusive mix on , it has the radio edit and Perfecto edit . Maybe the radio edit is exclusive?

I also have a few those above but not the Bue Monday New Zealand.I have the Select magazine Fac 305C cassette with the exclusive Hague mix of BLT

Here’s a selection of my NO, Electronic and Revenge cassettes. I have the Select mag 305C one too but it must be in another box upstairs somewhere.

Oh and also the Music Complete cassette that was in the Japanese box edition

Fotz wrote: ^ I think what negative means is there is an exclusive mix on the cassette but it’s not of World. it’s an exclusive mix of Vicious Circle, different from on the World CD single? I do have that World cassette single, will have to dig it out & listen to and check again on the Vicious Circle mix.It’s a different mix from the one on the CD single.I

Edit: oh hang on, I’m getting mixed up with the Ruined In A Day cassette single , so no I don’t know about an exclusive mix on the World cassette single ( which in fact I DON’T have)

Edit 2: Actually I DO have the World cassette single, just dug it out but it doesn’t have an exclusive mix on , it has the radio edit and Perfecto edit . Maybe the radio edit is exclusive?

sorry guys, i did mix it up, it was the ruined in a day cassette.

but the 'platinum on black' cassette, is what i should have been referring to: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/13322818

Various ‎– Platinum On Black Label: FFRR ‎– 697 124 005-4 Format: Cassette, Mixed Country: US Released: 1993 Genre: Electronic Style: House TracklistShow Credits

B6 –New Order World 5:53

Total Time: 38:35

New Order World Producer – New Order, Stephen Hague Remix, Producer [Additional] – Paul Oakenfold & Steve Osborne 5:53

i haven't listened to it, so i think it's exclusive.

the cd, had the normal perfecto edit: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/79058 New Order World (Perfecto Edit) 4:04

the US promo LP has the same timing: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Platinum-On-Black/release/346926

New Order World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Edit) 5:53

all other versions have this: World (The Price Of Love) (Perfecto Edit) 4:04

I also have a few those above but not the Bue Monday New Zealand.I have the Select magazine Fac 305C cassette with the exclusive Hague mix of BLT

Here’s a selection of my NO, Electronic and Revenge cassettes. I have the Select mag 305C one too but it must be in another box upstairs somewhere.

Oh and also the Music Complete cassette that was in the Japanese box edition

yeah, i was going to post that cassette later one, because i found a few more new order ones.

later -1

^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

The Hague mix of BLT is also on the Married To The Mob soundtrack which I have on CD. Almost the same as the version on 'The Best Of' but has a little more reverb, and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

Fotz wrote: ^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

Anyone confirmed the 5.53 timing of this version? Sometimes times are misstated on sleeves. Could be just another early fade I guess.

Corporate pigs London spread the Ruined Bsides so you had to buy each format for an exclusive: Vicious Circles No mix (cassette), VC Haas and Ambient (CD), World dub (12"), three pieces of Pooh (CD 2). Each track was specially commissioned by London, each track was exclusive to its format, and each track was total and utter fucking shit. The only decent thing to come out of that was the K-Klarse mix, which they must've liked cos it was used on TOTP, Radio 1's Top 40 and the Rest Of, though they also used the Ambient one at some 93 gigs.

^ I disagree agree with you Michael on your Vicious Circle opinion. I like both versions of it.

It’s been years since I heard the NO version of Vicious Circle. This is the problem with putting something exclusive on a format that was dying out even back in 1993.

It's not bad, but lacks the warmth and personality of the Technique and Electronic Bsides. Gotta have house... Music! In 1993. You can understand why they're so highly considered. Still, good to get an original track amid the endless rehashes. I also had that Select tape and It was the first time I heard Hage's BLT. It'd be the definitive mix but the silly sod cut the second instrumental break, which is an integral part of the experience. The Trouble with Girls (classic Revenge feminism) was an exclusive take on Big Bang, one of the more listenable One True Song moments, and it eluded compilation till LTM. There was also Wende, an early Bleachman, I think. Still crud, though. Ultimately, Revenge were just a pretext to tour, though Gun World Porn is worthwhile, but they were pretty much Monaco by then. I loved the fact Hooky insisted they were a democracy with equally important members, but no one else appeared in the Pineapple Feces vid, and he shelved the whole thing for Killing Joke. I'm sure he'd've allowed Hicks the same liberty.

Yeah the “Gotta have house… Music!”was a bit ,I don’t know, I just thought it was a bit of a joke. But there’s some good synth ideas on both versions

It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

perspexorange wrote: It’s been years since I heard the NO version of Vicious Circle. This is the problem with putting something exclusive on a format that was dying out even back in 1993.

i've transferred it and cleaned it up ages ago.

also here's someone else posting it:

later -1

Mr Discography wrote:

Fotz wrote: ^ Ah ok, yes that 5.53 edit of the Perfecto mix isn't something i'm sure i've ever heard.The standard full length Perfecto is around 7.34 and as you state, the standard Perfecto edit indeed 4.04.

Anyone confirmed the 5.53 timing of this version? Sometimes times are misstated on sleeves. Could be just another early fade I guess.

well, i will check it out, i'm pretty sure i did when i got the cassette.

if i ever get the vinyl, i could check that too.

later -1

Mr Discography wrote: and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

During the Substance Tour Steve played that bit on the synth, so I think Barney was copying him when he redid the vocal. I've always loved that as well.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

Hooky sort of finished it by reusing his riff on Monaco's Sweet Lips.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: There was also Wende, an early Bleachman, I think.

'Wende' was an early version of 'Slave'. 'Hot Nights, Cool City' / 'Bleachboy' was an early version of 'Bleachman'.

To paraphrase Alan Partridge, "Stop Getting Revenge Wrong!!!"

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

During the Substance Tour Steve played that bit on the synth, so I think Barney was copying him when he redid the vocal. I've always loved that as well.

Yep, that's the bit that I specifically like about the mix. Oh, that and the wonderful way it ends, with the twinkling keyboard sound. Lovely stuff! It's just a fabulous version.

I'm not always Hague's biggest fan for his work with New Order (although I love his work with other bands; PSBs for instance). I tend to feel that he suits more 'electronic' records; not so much with songs that should use 'proper' instruments. Hence, IMHO, his work shines on that mix of BLT, World In Motion & Round & Round (the 12" is sublime). But True Faith, for instance, sounds a bit neutered to me.

Don't get me wrong, I still love that track, but the production loses some of the power for me. The drums, for instance, should be 'harder'. Live versions sound fantastic, for instance. Well, they used to, before the song got changed to that bloody awful version that we've had since '98.

Mr Discography wrote: The Hague mix of BLT is also on the Married To The Mob soundtrack which I have on CD. Almost the same as the version on 'The Best Of' but has a little more reverb, and Barney's classic "Do do do do do do" vocal as lib after the first chorus - always wondered why Hague removed such a great bit of that version from his 94 'Best Of' version

Yeah, I realised that a little while after getting that Select tape. I picked up a bootleg of 'Rare Mixes' fromm a record fair in the early 90s. It had that version, plus the exclusive edits of 'Temptation' and 'True Faith' from the 'Something Wild' and 'Bright Lights, Big City' soundtracks respectively. There were other tracks too, but can't remember what ('Salvation!' tracks maybe).

Sounds like you picked up The Remix CD which I mentioned. The RIAD Fazed n Dazed mix can't be official and I suspect the monger himself made it to convince completists they 'needed' it. I'm amazed I know as much about Revenge as I do, given that they are total and utter shit. It tells you more about the state of my social '''life'' in 1990 than the quality of the actual music. Yeah, Hague is essentially a pop producer and Republic is too poppy. But his BLT is tantalisingly close to the best. The funny part about the Best Of Is that I first heard TF ,Perfuckedo and 1963 95 so I thought it was Hague and he'd knocked himself out. I later discovered the 94 versions were almost exactly the same as his originals: BLT OST, and TF-63-R+R 7"s. Well worth the salary.

Andy wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: It sounds vaguely unfinished, like they were dicking about in the studio. I used to have a soft spot for those Italo synth sounds though, like World in Motion.

Hooky sort of finished it by reusing his riff on Monaco's Sweet Lips.

... Whose Bside also includes Everything's Gangrene. How does he do it? What's his secret? I guess we'll never know.