Unknown Pleasures: Inside Joy Division

I recently finished re-reading Hooky's JD book and a couple of things struck me:

I don't know who wrote the bits chronicling the eras discussed in the chapters (in italics). I can't seem to find a credit.

Why isn't there a "Thank you" to David Potts? He thanks other members of The Light. Was there an issue with Pottsy at the time?

I hadn't noticed that.

A few weeks ago, he mentioned in one of his chats that he had a falling out with Pottsy (or at least had upset him at some point). Presumably he has since made up with him and the relationship is (thankfully) good now. Whether the above incident was during the time he was writing his JD book, I wouldn't know, but it may possibly explain a reason for the 'non-credit'. Alternatively, it might've been a 'nothing sort of incident' and there's another reason for any non-credit.

Incidentally, in that same chat, he mentioned that he was on bad terms with both Terry Mason and John Simms (of 24HPP fame).

This is not meant as a criticism of Hook, and is merely an observation, but he does seem to fall out with a few people. That is a feature of most of his (very entertaining) chats. It just seems a shame to not be in a good place with people he once called friends.

Maybe when he says 'fell out' he just means a minor disagreement, rather than anything notable (like his relationship with Bernard, Steve and Gillian).

I believe the book was first published in 2012? Pottsy only joined The Light in 2013, no?

perspexorange wrote:

Incidentally, in that same chat, he mentioned that he was on bad terms with both Terry Mason and John Simms (of 24HPP fame).

In one of his Insta chats he mentioned that the last time he saw Peter Saville they had a big argument...

I'm convinced he's just a giant cnut who can't get along with anybody.

50poundnote wrote: I'm convinced he's just a giant cnut who can't get along with anybody.

Totally disagree. It's 'giant fucking cunt'. It can't always be other people's fault.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Totally disagree. It's 'giant fucking cunt'. It can't always be other people's fault.

THIS. Also, did you know he rose from the ashes of Joy Division to, umm, shit all over his own legacy?

My personal favourite was Revenge. He said they were a democracy with 'equally important members' - then didn't put anyone else in the vid, kicked out Hicks and shelved the entire project for Killing Joke. Right on.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: shelved the entire project for Killing Joke. Right on.

I'm trying to watch the Killing Joke documentary on Amazon Prime right now, and of course Hook is in it.

It's also far too much about the occult and Jaz crawling up his own ass to be any good. Pity.

perspexorange wrote:

This is not meant as a criticism of Hook, and is merely an observation, but he does seem to fall out with a few people.

I think where he goes wrong is managing to make sure the world knows who he's fallen out with. Everybody falls out with people from time to time, particularly people they work with, don't they? But, yeah, call him a cunt to prove how zen you are about stuff😄

Coops wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

This is not meant as a criticism of Hook, and is merely an observation, but he does seem to fall out with a few people.

I think where he goes wrong is managing to make sure the world knows who he's fallen out with. Everybody falls out with people from time to time, particularly people they work with, don't they? 😄

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. It might be best if he didn't bandy about all the people he's fallen out with, as it makes him look like someone who is difficult to get along with. I guess this is the problem with doing a lot of interviews; there's more time available to 'slip into criticism'. Not that I want the chats to end. They've been pretty good stuff, especially during this lockdown.

Coops wrote: But, yeah, call him a c**t to prove how zen you are about stuff😄

Just to point out, I didn't call him anything. As annoyed as I am with the whole 'New Odour' fall out / name calling etc, I bear no ill will on Hooky. I just wish things would be a bit more civil.

And I very rarely use that particular word. Reserved for special occasions only

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

50poundnote wrote: I'm convinced he's just a giant cnut who can't get along with anybody.

Totally disagree. It's 'giant fucking cunt'. It can't always be other people's fault.

Maybe we could have a poll?

I don't follow his weekly podcasts but he does seem an attention seeking self-serving type with his endless branded tie-ins. Any news of book no.4?

tapebias wrote: Any news of book no.4?

Well yes. It's about how not to get f**ked over in the music business. He says he's writing it. (He suggested it wouldn't particularly be about him v NO, before y'all go, "not again"!)

Debaser wrote:

tapebias wrote:

Well yes. It's about how not to get f**ked over in the music business.

That's like John Merrick on how to seduce a Spice Girl.

perspexorange wrote:

Just to point out, I didn't call him anything.

I know you didn't but plenty do. And you can't tell me Hookys any less of an arsehole than Bernard at times, we've all read the anecdotal evidence from lots of sources about him. But, again, Sumners approach of not saying much ever pays dividends in how different he's perceived by the fans. So Hookys only got himself to blame, I suppose.

In the book, Hooky describes his relationship with the band during their work on the Control soundtrack:

"Doing the soundtrack was the last nail in the coffin for New Order. I realized after that me and Barney were poles apart, too far apart, and no one seemed able to bring us back together. I thought our management was useless and Steve seemed lost."

This is all he ever had to say on the matter and is the most simple and measured description of the situation I've heard from him. By the time of his New Order book, everyone was a cunt and things had been going wrong since Power, Corruption & Lies. I think he felt an urge to make people take sides, and ramped up his criticism until people either accepted it, or became sick of hearing it.

I find it ironic that groups that were so anti-rock star like New Order, The Smiths, etc. became undone (or can't reconcile) over issues with their egos.

Working my way through Substance, his New Order book, again. I believe there's truth in most of his stories, although he seems to delight in painting the others in a poor light. But then, he'll get things wrong that we can actually verify, and it throws doubt into the whole affair.

For some reason, this fun fact about The Him especially irks me: "I love this bassline. Bauhaus ripped it off for 'Bela Lugosi's Dead'. (I take it as a compliment, lads, don't worry)."

Bauhaus recorded Bela Lugosi's Dead in January of 1979.

Andy wrote:

I find it ironic that groups that were so anti-rock star like New Order, The Smiths, etc. became undone (or can't reconcile) over issues with their egos.

Yeah you make a good point there, Andy. Not sure I’d thought of it like that before but yeah, ironic!

My favourite singer is Alanis Morrisette, but I can never remember a single lyric. Isn't it ironic? Don't you think? The whole concept of indie went out the window with Shitpop in the mid-90s. Bands like Oasis or Bleurgh playing stadiums and making the headlines, and even the Sex Pistols touring massive venues. In '96 Select ran an article about top indie 'breadheads' - fashionably unfashionable bands making more money on the sly than the Simply Reds of this world - and New Order were second with 16 million! Not bad for a band who'd made one album all decade and that one was shit. Mustve been London, who saw them as an investment. (First were the Pets with 18, which struck me as a weird choice cos they're about as alternative as cornflakes.)

Another weird bit from Hooky's Substance:

"TEN BEST NEW ORDER SONGS

1. Thieves Like Us
2. Leave Me Alone
3. Homage
4. Too Late
5. Someone Like You
6. Ruined in a Day (K-Klass Remix)
7. Every Little Counts
8. Age of Consent
9. Temptation
10. Elegia"

I can't argue with anyone choosing #'s 1, 2, 8, 9 & 10 but the others are puzzling. I wouldn't call any of the others bad tracks (well, possibly the unfinished Homage) but among the "TEN BEST"?

I suspect, in respect of Someone Like You, he’s happy with the bassline (which is pretty damn good).

I think he’s commented somewhere that he was perplexed and/or annoyed with Bernard for ‘dropping’ both Homage and Too Late before they were finished. Maybe he specifically included them as a swipe at Bernard (i.e. highlighting that Sumner made a mistake in not finishing them).

I will say though, that I love both those tracks too. (Probably not the ‘very best’ tracks though, agreed).

That list just reinforces my perception that he’s a giant troll. I don’t think even he believes half the bullshit he says. It’s tired.

I always thought his standard line was that Regret was "the last great New Order song". Maybe it finished 11th...

He's just fucking around. Homage is crap but it's cool to have something that's been relatively hard to track down. ask him on another day and he'd probably say the Hassie flexi. None of you has ever taken a fucking word he says seriously. Why start now?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: He's just fucking around. Homage is crap but it's cool to have something that's been relatively hard to track down. ask him on another day and he'd probably say the Hassie flexi. None of you has ever taken a fucking word he says seriously. Why start now?

New Order fans' lists would probably change from day to day as well. But he's putting it in his memoirs.

Yeah, that reminded me of a rundown of all the solo Beatle albums and people moaning about it. There are well over sixty of the fuckers - what are the chances of it being exactly the same as yours? And you're right, your own changes from day to day. The first two Macca albums seem to improve with each listening. I used to think Republic was shit - then I thought it was total and utter shit - now I think it's fucking total and fucking utter fucking shit. Times Change.