Question - Masters Of The Ceremony Megamix

Just remembered... Around 2005 my mate had WinMX and he found a mix of BM with Thunderbirds. Anyone else heard that? Must be unofficial. As I said, I didn't hear Theme until relatively recently, and always assumed it was Homage. Yeah Hooky picked Hix from said band... By mistake! He thought it was the guy on the other side of the stage cos of the labelling. Apparently Hooky treated him quite badly and once got him to drink his piss. They certainly got better live and record reviews with Pottsy, though I remember a scathing NME review of the swansong with Northside.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Just remembered... Around 2005 my mate had WinMX and he found a mix of BM with Thunderbirds. Anyone else heard that? Must be unofficial.

Yeah. It's the 'Blue Monday (Re-Ordered)' Paul Dakeyne mix that's on this:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-October-86-Mixes-2/release/535586

It's got a tonne of other crap in it too (James Bond, Peter Gunn theme, South Pacific, Kraftwerk, The Professionals, Cutting Crew etc.).

Here it is:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Apparently Hooky treated him quite badly and once got him to drink his Pisa.9k

Sounds a bit like the Sarge incident that Hooky mentioned in his JD book. Pint of p**s / S**t Sandwich etc.

I also think that Hicks kind of wanted to be the lead singer, so I guess it just didn't work out. Either that or Hooky just fell out with him (it has been known).

Yeah, a bit silly. I love the way Hooky insisted Revenge was a democracy with equally important members, but he changed the line up, didn't put anyone else in the PF vid and put the whole thing on hold for Killing Joke. I'm sure CJ would've been granted the same largesse: :Hooky the Damned have reformed and want me in.' 'Sure, pal. I'll just twiddle me thumbs while you toddle off and do your thang. Let me know when you've finished.'

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, a bit silly. I love the way Hooky insisted Revenge was a democracy with equally important members, but he changed the line up, didn't put anyone else in the PF vid and put the whole thing on hold for Killing Joke. I'm sure CJ would've been granted the same largesse: :Hooky the Damned have reformed and want me in.' 'Sure, pal. I'll just twiddle me thumbs while you toddle off and do your thang. Let me know when you've finished.'

Yeah. They were partners. Just not equal partners.

I know I've said it before, but I liked Revenge. A lot. And they were just starting to write some really good material (Gun World Porn etc.) when the band was effectively dissolved for Hooky to join the others for 'Republic'.

After that LP was done, I honestly wish that Hooky would've carried on with Revenge, rather than the (IMO) weaker Monaco. (Although I will admit that 'What Do You Want From Me?' was bloody excellent).

Michael Monkhouse wrote: didn't put anyone else in the PF vid

I don't know about you, but when I'm planning on getting my arse caned by two leather-clad dommes, I tell my mates that I'll see them in the pub a bit later on.

Yeah, I remember reading you like Revenge. When I stopped laughing, I continued reading. Gun World Porn is a gem though, but I think of that as early Monaco rather than late Revenge. There was an overlap, but you know far more about this than me. The last one to feature the original lineup was White Light, which never seemed to climax... You're welcome to your opinion (this is English for You're wrong), but surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: didn't put anyone else in the PF vid

I don't know about you, but when I'm planning on getting my arse caned by two leather-clad dommes, I tell my mates that I'll see them in the pub a bit later on.

I'm saving myself up for when Mel C finally plucks up the courage to propose to me. I can't propose to her as it wouldn't be Girl Power.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

Possibly. But M4P has got that mid-to-late 90s feel to it. OK, there are Hook's distinctive basslines, but the rest just sounds a bit generic. In a lot of places, it's probably not a hell of a lot different to albums by Dodgy and Cast released around that time.

I did like it a lot when I first got it and played it to death. So much so, I remember that I pretty much sang along to the entire setlist at the band's Wolves Civic appearance (sad, eh?).

Nowadays, apart from the three singles (WDYWFM?, Sweet Lips, Shine), I can't remember how any of the others tracks actually sound. Let alone remember lyrics. I don't think I've listened to it for 20 years (unless I've slung it on once, then promptly forgot it).

On the other hand, OTP, I remember well and play it regularly (which, I guess, partly explains why I remember it ). I know it's not to everyone's taste, but it does sound fairly unique (IMO) and doesn't fall into the trap of sounding like any other LP from the same time period.

Maybe if I gave M4P another spin, things might come back to me and I'll end up liking it again. But, often, when I start thinking about revisiting the 'solo projects', I just keep going back to OTP and the first Electronic LP.

The first Electronic LP is awesome. O know I've shared this shitloads, but my favourite review was, The only band to START with a Best Of. As for Revenge, I couldn't agree less. Well I could if I wanted to. OTP was largely considered a bad joke, especially after the double Whammy of Substance and Technique, and even superegotistical Hooky has practically disowned it. I like to think of 1997 as Hooky's return to form, both personally and professionally. Sometimes I think about the Spice Girls in the nude. Other times, I keep my clothes on for It.

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

it does sound fairly unique (IMO) and doesn't fall into the trap of sounding like any other LP from the same time period.

Yeah mate, that's how Fucking bad it is! It was only Tony Wanker's gratitude to Hook for staying with Fuckedtory that let it through in the first place. If anyone else had presented it, they'da been laughed outa the studio.

Revenge were bloody awful. Listened to some of Hooky’s interview on Liz Kershaw on Sunday. She started by going on about what an all round nice guy Hooky is , a top bloke . I thought bloody ell , you’re easily fooled , Liz.

Being a nice guy doesn't equal good music. Ask Cliff Richard.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, I remember reading you like Revenge. When I stopped laughing, I continued reading. ... You're welcome to your opinion (this is English for You're wrong)...

Haha! You've actually amused me here. Like a real comedian!

Fotz wrote: Revenge were bloody awful. Listened to some of Hooky’s interview on Liz Kershaw on Sunday. She started by going on about what an all round nice guy Hooky is , a top bloke . I thought bloody ell , you’re easily fooled , Liz.

Well she did vote for Brexit (and has lots of Brexiteer followers on twitter too). I probably shouldn't get into politics here...

PS In his defence, Hooky can be a nice guy. Sometimes.

I was kind of surprised by the Kershaw/Hooky interview.

She normally interrupts everyone to the point where it becomes embarrassing. But she kind of let Hooky talk.

To be fair, he’s a bit overpowering at times in terms of occupying the conversation too. Maybe she felt she met her match.

It seems I’m alone with my love of Revenge. Anyone able to agree with me?

Come on, ‘Jesus…I Love You’ is great. It’s a bit ‘overloaded’ granted, but it’s still damn good.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Cliff Richard, Liz Kershaw and P Hook all in the one thread! How low can it go?

Anyway, Revenge were probably the worst band I paid to see - just didn't have the tunes and wouldn't got off the ground if Wilson hadn't backed them. A vanity project much like all the others PH has had since to allow him to swing his balls centre stage and get his name in lights. Sorry Perspex just my opinion.

PS: there's a bass vacancy in The Cure now, hah.

perspexorange wrote: It seems I’m alone with my love of Revenge. Anyone able to agree with me?

Come on, ‘Jesus…I Love You’ is great. It’s a bit ‘overloaded’ granted, but it’s still damn good.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

No, you're not alone. It was different here in the US. New Order had minimal chart success and Revenge was more of a college radio band. I love Jesus...I Love You and One True Passion - played the hell out of OTP during the summer of 1990. Pineapple Face was a club hit, and to me it felt like a continuation of Technique and WIM (as there was no new music coming from New Order proper). Didn't connect with anything on Gun World Porn, but fell in love with Music For Pleasure during the summer of 1997. I even like some of the self-titled follow-up from 2000.

tapebias wrote: Sorry Perspex just my opinion.

Hey, no problem! You’re wrong, of course!

tapebias wrote: PS: there's a bass vacancy in The Cure now, hah.

I was wondering about this. About time The Cure had the real thing, rather than a clone.

50poundnote wrote:

No, you're not alone. It was different here in the US. New Order had minimal chart success and Revenge was more of a college radio band. I love Jesus...I Love You and One True Passion - played the hell out of OTP during the summer of 1990. Pineapple Face was a club hit, and to me it felt like a continuation of Technique and WIM (as there was no new music coming from New Order proper). Didn't connect with anything on Gun World Porn, but fell in love with Music For Pleasure during the summer of 1997. I even like some of the self-titled follow-up from 2000.

Thank you! Glad I’m not alone.

Jesus, I Love You, Pineapple Face, Big Bang, 14K, Slave, Fag Hag, Bleachman. All great tunes (but mostly lousy names).

I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD... but have to say Monaco is better.

And having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

Revenge were bolox - shoddy, rushed, unfocussed and essentially just an excuse for Hooky to tour, indulge his ego and dabble in some seriously dodgy and arguably sexist imagery. Tony Wilted was just grateful to Hooky cos New Order were by far his biggest band, and Hook had always been the most loyal when they were approached by richer labels. Still, interesting that the Yanks might've felt differently - I read that PF was a minor club hit and some of the remixes were an improvement. But you can't polish a turd. Unless you're doing anal. Fucking shit. Now MFP is far more accomplished and possibly the best thing to come out of Hook and even New Order, after Electronic. The followup is essentially a bleached out carbon copy, though It's A Boy has sentimental value. I listen to it pissed with my wife.

Mr. Disco wrote: I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD... but have to say Monaco is better.

And having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

Mr. Disco wrote: I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD...]

Good man! That JILY CD single is easily one of my most played CDs.

Mr. Disco wrote: having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

I’m glad he was pleasant when you met him.

Sadly, as I’ve probably said before, I met him at that aforementioned Wolves Monaco gig and he was a right tool with me. So much so, that it kind of put me off the band for a while. Stupid, eh?

So, the old adage of ‘never meeting your heroes’ certainly rang true with me.

However, I think this was smack bang in the middle of Hooky’s ‘cokehead / fighting Mrs Merton’s boyfriend days’, so I’m sure I didn’t see him at his best.

He seems a lot more pleasant these days.

No it ain't stoopid. A very small group of us waited for John Lydon after a PIL gig and he walked straight past us and into the car without a first, let alone second glance and it put me off him, especially as he's always going on about being anti the star system. Must've been a bad day cos I've read positive things about his attitude to fans. Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be. Maybe it's just marketing cos his New Order antics have put people off and he's hardly creating tons of new material.

Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be.

I think he admits it in one of the books?

Yeah, 'I Admit I Used To Be An Arsehole But I'm Not Now'.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

Mr. Disco wrote:

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

Hmm, I'm not sure I knew it was a cover version. If I ever did know, I've since forgotten.

Side-tracking a bit (which is what this thread seems to be doing a lot of ; not that that's a problem, of course!), I never really liked 'It's Alright'. It always seemed to be a bit 'normal'.

Thinking back, I think this is the point where my interest in the PSBs started to wane, never to be fully reignited.

Apart from 'So Hard', 'This Must Be The Place' and one or two others on 'Behaviour', I thought the LP was a bit 'meh'.

'Very' was pretty poor, IMO, with the lads just reusing the 'Go West' formula repeatedly. 'Can You Forgive Her' was the only bright spot for me.

By 'Bilingual', I really couldn't care less about the band.

It's a shame really, as their early stuff was just so DAMN good! 'Actually' is in my Top 10 LPs of all time, and 'Please' was 70% excellent.

It's one of those covers that's actually more famous than the original. Yeah I kinda went off the Pets then. Introspective only had two original songs and they held It's Alright back six months for a tour gimmick. Miliking it... Then there was a long break with just that dodgy, assmunching Liza Minelli thing, which was also largely oldies. Like New Order, I could recite the back catalogue up to a point, and worse still did, but then ..

Andy wrote: Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...

'14K' is a great track and 'Big Bang' is probably my favourite on the actual LP. I agree with your comments about 'Kiss The Chrome'. Not very good really, and I understand why it got relegated to the bonus disc on Version 2.0 of the LP. I'm not sure why they decided to relegate 'Fag Hag' rather than 'Surf Nazi' though. I agree that the former is a much better track.

Talking of V2.0, although I think it's a pretty great compilation, I was always annoyed with the shuffling of tracks. I can see why they re-edited / remixed some of the tracks, but shifting the running order just seemed bit superfluous to me. As someone who knows the LP pretty well, it grates on me a bit to suddenly shift from, say, 'Slave' to '14K'. I just wish they'd kept the album in the same order and added the bonus tracks on the end.

As regards the mixes, the Pineapple Face one was particularly confusing. It was difficult enough to keep track of the stuff with all the PF's Big Day/Big Day Out/Last Lunge/Revenge/Calls It A Day naming method without all the confusion with having two completely different versions of Big Day (by different remixers, IIRC).

The 'Slave' ones are just as confusing, as there's a load more edits, single mixes etc., with different naming methods used also.

As for the remixes themselves, I think they were generally pretty decent. I also quite like that daft ansaphone rap thing on the main UK remix of 'Slave'. I'm sure I'm alone in that though.

The 'Gun World Porn' EP was great, but I always felt the UK got shafted with that release. Although, probably a more streamlined version, I felt we missed having those extra mixes, including the non-Clail version of 'Deadbeat'. We did get the full-length 'State Of Shock' on the UK CD single though.

Talking of which, 'State Of Shock' is wonderful, IMHO.

The Trouble With Revenge (see what I did there?) was

1. They just chucked every sound in. I agree with Claud.Flowers that the edits were more streamlined, hence better.
2. They are total and utter fucking shit.
3. The lyrics are always reaching for some grandiose statement with topics like religion, the universe, passion etc. With 14K Hooky said he was learning to write simpler, more effective trax. I'd rate It's Quiet over JILY, which is just a mess. Yeah, some of the remixes were better. Ron St Germaine, who worked on Jimi Hendrix, did the best PF, and there were plenty of Slave takes, but the rap version was a bit silly. I'm convinced that Pottsy is the superior.writer: nio one holds or plays a bass like Hooky, but his singing-songwriting skills are a tad dubious. And how could we forget Freebass? I actually didn't mind the album, but the EP was crap.