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Funny thing... I regard the EP as being vastly superior to the album. And the album being superior do the Bad Losetennant album by a country mile. Bernard's worst effort so far IMHO.
Big Bang (and the remix) remains my favourite Revenge track to the day.
The EP was fairly horrible and compared to Spinale Tap on these very forums. I didn't mind the LP, but it's down with Super Gayways as the one I know least. Even after my obsessive phase wore off, there've been albums I know inside out through dint of listening. Cun't really comment on these. BL is a curate's egg and the first line was beyond groansome, but there are enuff gems to make it worthwhile. Runaway is cuntender for.Bernard's loveliest moment, alongside Some Distant Mammary and Wanking Off The Sirens' Call.
my anti hooky stance applies to his music. i have a ton of stuff from revenge. but now i can't stand to listen to any of it.
i might have liked it back then, and even now the EP is ok.
but i don't see the point of listening to any of his side projects at all.
the new order stuff will always overshadow it.
later -1
I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single, and I had a theory that Pumpkin / Microbes would've been its Bside a la Technique. I'm not sure it would've reversed Revenge's chart record of sweet Fanny Adams though.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single
I heard that too. I was convinced that I'd heard there were white label promos of it, but there's nothing on Discogs. Weird.
I think 'Big Bang' would've made a far better single.
Hook has always said that he never liked releasing singles from LPs. Seems doubtful that they would've released three.
Also, I doubt Wilson would've promoted a third, considering how Hook describes in his book that 'Revenge' almost bankrupted Factory. I guess that the dual hits of World In Motion/Step On helped to mitigate the financially disastrous OTP.
Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic. I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.
I lost track of the Pet Shop Boys for a long period of time after the Very album in 1993( that album does have some great songs IMO like Young Offennder, Yesterday When I Was Mad and the fantastic Beatmasters remix for the single release of I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind Of Thing ). But I never listened to the albums Bilingual (1996),Nightlife (1999) and Release( 2002) until the mid to late 2000s. Each of those albums does have one or two absolutely cracking songs though like Se a Vida E( That’s The Way Life Is) , Single Bilingual and Red Letter Day from Bilingual, I Don’t Know What You Want But I Can’t Give It Anymore and You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You’re Drunk from Nightlife and Home And Dry and London from Release.
The Fundamental album from 2006 has some great songs if you give the album time but maybe that time has long past. Top songs on that one for me are I Made My Excuses And Left, Numb, Luna Park, Cassanova In Hell and Indefinite Leave To Remain.
The Yes album from 2009 has some great songs like King Of Rome and The Way It Used To Be but like their late 90s /early 2000s albums and Elysium (2012), Electric (2013) and Super (2016) they’re rare diamonds amongst the other album tracks. Their most recent album Hotspot (2019 I think ?) was their worst by far for me, absolutely no songs I liked in any shape or form.
Love Is A Bourgeois Construct from the Electric album is fabulous late period PSB. Breathing Space, Memory Of The Future, Leaving and Winner are the stand outs for me from Elysium. On Super I’d say Twenty Something the stand out song.
Then of course there are the countless remix albums and live stuff. The Concrete live album is really good.
I think I only became aware It’s Alright is a cover version sometime relatively recently, maybe in the last 10 years.
The Pets are one of those bands I just kinda lost interest in. I had the same thing with New Order circa 1996. It was a combination of getting too old for teenage obsessions, difficulty tracking down info and releases, and London's policy of accompanying every new album with six billion rerererereleases, especially when the newbies were as bland as The Other Spew or Erase The Pressure. I'm surprised a fan hasn't even heard Gun World Porn, given that we're hardly talking Beatle productivity. Macca alone has been involved in around 1500 tracks so I'll forgive myself for not knowing them all inside out. Hooky's been retreading the same shit for 15 years and New Order have managed a grand total of one song in the last six years. I counted. Three times. All those total and utter pricks who think Tony Wilson was a genius should be forced to listen to OTP on replay in a cold, dark room. What a dick head.
negative1 wrote:
the new order stuff will always overshadow it.
later -1
Yeah but you can still enjoy it. Macca's never cum close to late Beatles, but I still listen to his stuff. I hereby promise to stop clogging these forums up with references to other bands. It's what I want, what I really really want to stop right now, thank you very much. Too much of one thing is bad enough. Makes me wanna holler. Let love lead the way, say you will be there. Who do you think you are? Goodbye, my friend.
Fotz wrote: Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic.
It has a bit, but it’s all good. It’s nice to have a thread get a fair few responses to it,
Fotz wrote: I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.
The Gun World Porn EP did get a full UK release, such as these were on Factory.
As I mentioned earlier, the UK release only had four tracks, one for each song. The version of ‘Deadbeat’ was a remix too. The US release had seven tracks, with both the original and remix of ‘Deadbeat’, two bonus remixes of ‘State Of Shock’ and the version of ‘Little Pig’ was a different mix to the UK.
So it did kind of feel like our version was nerfed a bit.
You should give GWP a listen, Fotz. Most people I’ve spoken to seem to find it the best stuff the band did. It’s pretty good.
Yeah, even better than Bleachman. How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know. As I've said and then again, I'm surprised Fotz hasn't even tried It, out of curiosity. It's fine but more Monaco than Revenge, Who overlapped some tracks. I didn't hear the original Deadbeat till 1998 and assumed the Clail mix was the 'proper' One.I was introduced to Regret through a remix too and thought Fire Island was theirs, partly cos it was previewed on Radio 1 and partly cos I was used to Factory starting with the full version on 12" with an edited or no 7", as opposed to London taking standard length and handing it over to external DJs.
Just remembered I used to have the US 12" of State of Shock, just the disc, no sleeve (cant remember what happened). Got rid of it when I've purchased the CD, assuming it would feature all versions. Later on, I hoped the LTM release of One True Passion V2.0 would bring back the extended mix of Little Pig, but it remains exclusive to the 12" I guess?
https://www.discogs.com/Revenge-State-Of-Shock-Little-Pig/release/884283
Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:
https://www.discogs.com/release/4958630
I'd forgotten all about this mix. I do have it as mp3, but Heaven knows where / when I acquired it. Just listening to it now. Not bad at all.
perspexorange wrote: Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:
Nice find!
Michael Monkhouse wrote: Three cassettes I picked up at a record fair in 1992. The most interesting was the first cos it had 586 Pts One and Two, Haystack, Homage and the Hassie flexidisc. There's a tracklisting here but it doesn't specify which versions https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Demos-Outakes-Rarities/release/7935833 . The funny part is that I thought Haystack had a woman on vocals so it was an old Inadequates track! I was right about the flexi tracks, and assumed 586 was an early version (half-right) and Homage an old demo (right again). Record Mirror and An Ideal For Living proved invaluable back then. The best part about the second one was Let's Go / Waiting for so long, which was also the best part of the third one! Milking it, really, but I'm sure there were two megamixes on there.
Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from - or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from
Although I don't have the bootleg you mentioned, I believe 'Sister Ray' is from Malvern Winter Gardens, 03/10/86.
I have that gig on my hard-drive, and it matches up with what you've said above.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
- or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.
Hmmm. Not sure about this one. If I can find the CD, I'll try and match it what I have Should be easy. The only problem might be locating the CD.
Thanks. If it matches, 99 per cent bound to be that one, cos that was when the gigs were unique. As I said, l assumed the bootlegger had used an official recording, so that grotesquely-titled and -packaged Like A Girl was the obvious choice. I don't have access to the Remix boot so I can't offer any more info, but I'd be interested in what you find. Come to think (that's my brain in reverse), I had four SRs, all different and semi-improv'd: Still BBC Radio 1 Demos, Out-takes and Rarities (always assumed it was Like A Girl cos they tended to be official but rare sources e g. Discreet Campaigns or Record Mirror. Surprised the bootlegger took the trouble to dig out a live track due to its rarity value. The only other glaring omission from these was Theme, so I confused it with Homage) Oz's Live and Dangerous Mix, which obviously wasn't a mix but the compiler's label, presumably so it'd tie in with the others on a 'Remix' CD
perspexorange wrote:
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
- or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.
Hmmm. Not sure about this one. If I can find the CD, I'll try and match it what I have Should be easy. The only problem might be locating the CD.
So I finally found my 'The Remix' CD.
Pretty sure that 'Oz's Live and Dangerous Mix' of 'Sister Ray' is the one from Ibirapuera, São Paulo, Brazil, 01/12/88, which is also featured on the 'Like A Girl...' compilation. Not sure if it's any different from the version on the original CD.
If you think about it, it makes sense that it would've been ripped from a legitimate source (rather than a live bootleg), as pretty much all of the other tracks were taken from official sources, albeit hard-to-find ones.
Incidentally, the Extended Mix of Run 2 is a bit different to the standard 12" version. It has a 'record played backwards' type sound at the start. No doubt this is another bit added by the compiler to make it seem different (thereby encouraging punters to buy it).
perspexorange wrote:
If you think about, it makes sense that it would've been ripped from a legitimate source (rather than a live bootleg), as pretty much all of the other tracks were taken from official sources, albeit hard-to-find ones.
Yeah, that's what I thought. So it's weird that the Demos, Outtakes and Rarities did that cos the others were 'under-released' i.e. Record Mirror, Discreet Campaigns etc. Cheers for checking that out. I wanted to try my copy of 'The Remix' but the channel's in the way.
Michael Monkhouse wrote:
Cheers for checking that out. I wanted to try my copy of 'The Remix' but the channel's in the way.
No problem. I enjoyed digging it out. Although I have most of the stuff on other discs and sometimes in better quality, I'm quite impressed with what was on the disc.
I remember at the time, I only had the soundtrack versions on a dodgy bootleg cassette, so it was nice to get on CD. Was also good to get the Racic mix of Paradise on CD too.
I think the DJ Only mix of Blue Monday 1988 is a bit longer than the version on vinyl (7:38 compared to 7:19). However, I suspect it's just running a bit slow, rather than being a slightly different version.
Cool. Sorry to repeat myself (actually I'm not. Some people molest goats) but I remember buying that at a record fair in Cambridge in 1995. I 'needed' it for Paradise, Ruined, BM and Sister Ray. Ruined must be by the bootlegger to con buyers. I'd just cum back from my year out (think Erasmus without the fucking) and had a lot of money by my standards so I had a lot of fun tracking down what I'd missed e.g. the 1963 12". Then I actually heard it and it wasn't fun at all. Does Lioncock have a single sec of NO? In fact, the glut of remixes alongside these solo projects that were doing FA was one of the reasons my passion faded. Until Rest Of, I could recite the entire back catalogue and, sadly, did. I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: the glut of remixes alongside these solo projects that were doing FA was one of the reasons my passion faded. Until Rest Of, I could recite the entire back catalogue and, sadly, did.
Yep. I've said it before too (many times) that the whole Republic/Best Of/Rest Of remixes and the band's 'not giving a shit' attitude (who could blame them) really killed my passion in the mid-nineties.
I still dabbled in 'new' New Order (for instance, I loved Crystal, Here To Stay and the Apollo '98 gig), but I generally took a huge break from the band. In fact the whole thing kind of soured me towards the old material too. I guess I thought, if the band couldn't be arsed, why should I? (daft I know).
I always loved the old stuff deep down, but just rarely seemed to listen to it, and found myself listening to bands like The Chameleons, The Comsat Angels and The Sound far more than NO.
It wasn't really until the reformation in 2011 that I started to get pretty keen on the band once again.
Yeah, I've never cum close to the level of passion I had in the early 90s. There are whole albums I can't comment on - Super Highgays and Freebass - and a ton of mixes I haven't even heard. By Get Ready I had very little interest and bought it more out of curiosity than anything else. O enjoyed it but felt there was a dip in the second half. I got interested again around Wanking For the Sirens' Call, partly cos it was the internet explosion so it was fun to find info, partly cos I was under a lot of stress and I needed a hobby. But God, I'll never go back to the obsessiveness of my youth.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: No it ain't stoopid. A very small group of us waited for John Lydon after a PIL gig and he walked straight past us and into the car without a first, let alone second glance and it put me off him, especially as he's always going on about being anti the star system. Must've been a bad day cos I've read positive things about his attitude to fans. Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be. Maybe it's just marketing cos his New Order antics have put people off and he's hardly creating tons of new material.
Slightly off topic but I once saw David Bad Eel and he refused to give an autograph. I was miffed but later realised he was doing the right thing cos it was an Eddie Izzard singing session and he didn't want to steal the star's thunder. Celeb etiquette. Cos I met him on another occasion and he gave me his autograph, no prob. I once met Cameron Diaz. People say, Was it weird, suddenly face to face with this gorgeous, stunning, sexy, millionaire superstar? Yes, it was. But after the initial nerves, she calmed down. I'm just like everyone else, really.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.
I believe that was a Lemonheads 'remix', not NO. And on a point of up-my-arse pedantry, Aphex Twin is singular.
Debaser wrote:
Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.
I believe that was a Lemonheads 'remix', not NO. And on a point of up-my-arse pedantry, Aphex Twin is singular.
Yeah, the other night I did a show and afterwards someone said, 'Me and my mate think you're a fucking cunt.' I was so shocked - because it's 'My mate and I'. The mixes were fine in the Fucktory years cos they stayed fairly true to the originals sand even if they didn't, it felt like the band was involved cos they'd launch into them live. The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.
Yep. London probably guessed that they weren't going to get any further new material out of the band and wanted to maximise their return.
I guess the lack of impetus of the band to produce new stuff was tempered with the fact that London had acquired the band's very enviable back catalogue, and could milk this for all its worth.
So, first off they release four singles off the (IMO patchy) 'new' LP. Remixed these to death, spreading the various mixes over multiple formats, including two CDs per single (except Regret).
Then, after fully exhausting 'Republic', they moved onto the back catalogue: Studio LP reissues, Best Of, Rest Of, True Faith-94, 1963-95, Blue Monday-95, International etc.
Oh, and Joy Division reissues - studio LPs, Permanent, Love Will Tear Us Apart-95 etc.
I bet they made a shed load of money. Both London and the band. Probably paid for Bernard's yacht.
I know we've all discussed this at length, but this really was a definite low in the band's history.
Yeah, the only reason for Rest Of was wonga. New Order signed a three-album cuntract with London but as usual they were having their cack and eating it cos it included one they'd already finished (repubelick) and a compilation 'Substance 2' (released as the Best Of). If the band had been arsed to wtite something new, London wouldn't've put this crap out.
perspexorange wrote:
Michael Monkhouse wrote: The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.
Yep. London probably guessed that they weren't going to get any further new material out of the band and wanted to maximise their return.
I guess the lack of impetus of the band to produce new stuff was tempered with the fact that London had acquired the band's very enviable back catalogue, and could milk this for all its worth.
So, first off they release four singles off the (IMO patchy) 'new' LP. Remixed these to death, spreading the various mixes over multiple formats, including two CDs per single (except Regret).
Then, after fully exhausting 'Republic', they moved onto the back catalogue: Studio LP reissues, Best Of, Rest Of, True Faith-94, 1963-95, Blue Monday-95, International etc.
Oh, and Joy Division reissues - studio LPs, Permanent, Love Will Tear Us Apart-95 etc.
I bet they made a shed load of money. Both London and the band. Probably paid for Bernard's yacht.
I know we've all discussed this at length, but this really was a definite low in the band's history.
it might have been a low for you. but i loved electronica, and a lot of those fit in.
great for collectors too.
the blue monday 95 mixes, had some great ones, like from hardfloor.
i was glad to see them revisit the classics, while not much else was going on.
but republic was a lowpoint for albums, for me though.
later -1
It was difficunt to get excited about something that was so patently about money first and quality second. It was a triple loss - no New Order, rip-off rereleases, and these much touted solo projects were hardly knocking em out either.
Michael Monkhouse wrote: It was difficunt to get excited about something that was so patently about money first and quality second. It was a triple loss - no New Order, rip-off rereleases, and these much touted solo projects were hardly knocking em out either.
Agreed.
negative1 wrote:
the blue monday 95 mixes, had some great ones, like from hardfloor.
Yep. To be fair, I quite liked the Blue Monday-95 mixes too OK, so nothing was going to beat the original classic and The Beach (possibly the band's best remix?), but there was much to enjoy in the remixes. Especially the Hardfloor ones.
On a similar note, the Confusion remixes from 2002 were even better. I really like those.
Apart from those two exceptions (plus maybe one or two others), I was not fussed by the post-Factory remixes, which all seemed like a massive cash-grab.
