Retro - what a disappointment !

When i heard about this long-awaited N.O box i thought we would get some old demos, out-takes and rarities. However all it seems to be is yet another "best of..."! The same old tracks, remixes and a load of uninspired live stuff. What a rip-off!!

You think they could have at least reissued old 12' mixes not available on CD and release all their Peel Sessions in this set. But no, we get crap.

Eric

...again and again...

What were you expecting - it IS a retrospective that brings together the vast majority of the bands output - Bernard simply will NOT have any demos on the album - As demos they do NOT represent the bands music to anyone other than a producer or management. Demos are never recorded with a view to release and as Bernard is a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to production those demos will stay firmly unreleased...On the subject of out-takes; there are NONE. Everything has seen the light of day as b-sides/extra tracks over the years. The "Peel Sessions" are BBC copyright recordings and as such would require extra clearances and indeed have all but been previously released by the BEEB anyway. I was asked if there was anything that I knew of that wasn't on there that SHOULD be and save from a couple of original versions, there is little or nothing I can come up with.

I just wish Slow Jam wasn't on there. It means i have to do some more precision scratching of the CD to make sure i never accidentally play it.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino I just wish Slow Jam wasn't on there. It means i have to do some more precision scratching of the CD to make sure i never accidentally play it.

Why not just burn a cdr of it with Slow Jam replaced by...er...We All Stand?

Originally posted by pete poorten > Originally posted by Major Tarantino I just wish Slow Jam wasn't on there. It means i have to do some more precision scratching of the CD to make sure i never accidentally play it.

Why not just burn a cdr of it with Slow Jam replaced by...er...We All Stand?

I know how you feel about it all. This was London Record's biggest mistake. If they took off "SLow Jam" and replaced it with "Liar", this box set woudl sell millions. Not to mention please every fan, as everyone here's biggest wish is a digitally remastered version of it.

i understand your sarcasm, but why the hell fill up remastered space with a song that is probably below average, very easy to find on CD and does not need remastered. if you were asked to pick a track list, would you round it out with personal choices, that do not benefit from remastering nor are rare in the slightest, to take the place and push out harder to find or unavailable on CD tracks.

and may i ask, was the Lee Combs remix of Crystal appreciated by many? or at least a few? cause it never really stuck me as exceptional.

Originally posted by pumped full of drugs i understand your sarcasm, but why the hell fill up remastered space with a song that is probably below average, very easy to find on CD and does not need remastered. if you were asked to pick a track list, would you round it out with personal choices, that do not benefit from remastering nor are rare in the slightest, to take the place and push out harder to find or unavailable on CD tracks. and may i ask, was the Lee Combs remix of Crystal appreciated by many? or at least a few? cause it never really stuck me as exceptional.

Yeah, I was making a joke. I actually came up with a pretty good track listing wish list back when it was going to be a "singles box set". But then they annouced that four other people other than New Order were producing it, and my hopes went downhill from there. Everyday since has been filled with disappointment, from the name change to "Retro", the more or less "best of" track listing, the horrid cover art, and so forth. I'm at least happy about the live disc. I knew Bobby Gillespie would pull through in the end to please us.

More importantly, and strictly on topic ... why, pray tell, have Nintendo neglected to release series gaming titles against continued bombardment from the Playing Unit and now the Sexual Box?

The main point is that "Retro" is simply little more than another pointless collection. Newbies are gonna be satisfied with the likes of "International", fans are gonna want more rarities and B sides, nobody ends up happy. At least the live disc is a step in the right direction, but wouldn't it have been really nice to have a few JD songs on it too?

Could someone please explain to me what this "Retro" disc is? I am a Newbie. Anyone have a link to it?

Has anyone noticed this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920459440

£77 for the exact same tracks as the normal Retro, but on cdr??? Seems nuts to me.

And I still don't understand the naming of those disks, 'the hits' 'early years' ???

But the pics on the above page do give the times for the tracks, can one work out from that which version of temptation/ceremony it is?

Originally posted by pete poorten Has anyone noticed thishttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920459440£77 for the exact same tracks as the normal Retro, but on cdr??? Seems nuts to me.And I still don't understand the naming of those disks, 'the hits' 'early years' ???But the pics on the above page do give the times for the tracks, can one work out from that which version of temptation/ceremony it is?

DAMN! It's the rerecorded version of Ceremony, not the original. On the brighter side of things, that's the original 12" Temptation... but I already have that on CD and I was really hoping for the 7".

Firstly, there is NO SUCH THING as a CDR "acetate" - these are no more than London Record advance promos - I'll have a couple of these within the week and I'll give one away next week here.

The titles are/were working titles that have since been changed.

To anyone who doesn't have Cries and Whispers yet, well, don't get your hopes up. The time listed on those cds say it's 3:25, but the song is actually 3:00... 3:25 is the total time of the track Mesh.

Now, this is funny. On the 1981-1982 EP, they mislabled Cries and Whispers as Mesh, on now they are mislabling Mesh as Cries and Whispers for the box set.

Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by pete poorten> Has anyone noticed this> > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=920459440> > £77 for the exact same tracks as the normal Retro, but on cdr??? Seems nuts to me.> > And I still don't understand the naming of those disks, 'the hits' 'early years' ???> > But the pics on the above page do give the times for the tracks, can one work out from that which version of temptation/ceremony it is?

It's the titles of each discs... nothing to understand :D

Well yes, I might be missing something here, but I was merely referring to the lack of consistency between the contents and titles of the disks (or did I miss Slow Jam being released as a top 10 single?). As the other guy said though, I guess those were merely working titles.

Well most of you seem to agree with my point but for those who say there arent any "odds and sods" out there what about those early (albeit crap) songs like "Haystack" and "Homage"? There's also the 98 Peel Sessions. There must also be some rare tracks that could be dug up ("Evil Dust" springs to mind). Despite being a huge N.O fan for several years, I will not be forking out for Retro...if they had put something different on there i would have. Oh well i have probably saved myself about 30 notes!! Oh and finally....i rather like Slow Jam!!

Well, after seeing the tracklistings, we've got to concede that Retro was pretty much what we've come to expect.....

.....Short of releasing a complete CD of Cure cover versions that is.

Oh goodie, another thread dedicated to crying about Retro. Why don't you gather all the Retro whiners and start a New Order 12 step group, maybe together you can get through this travesty.

Originally posted by Marco Pleil ...again and again...

i second that. you guys should move on. i was disgusted as much as you guys, BUT MOVE ON!

Originally posted by Spotnick Funny thing is.. Slow Jam has a different time that any version existing.Maybe they are planning to release it as a single for Retro? Probably not, it must be an error...

Fingers crossed that the track listing keeps with the New Order (though sadly I suspect it may have been Factory incompetence) tradition of mislabelling a track on many recordings. Wouldn't it be great if we sat back, expecting to hear Slow Jam next on Retro, only to be surprised by a completely different song ! Maybe even Love Vigilantes ;)

Originally posted by Warm Hands, Cold Heart I can't !!!!Do you realise how many people intend to buy the boxset almost only to get the live disc? That means that these people have HUGE interest in hearing this CD which contains (almost) material never available before anywhere.That means that there are soundboard recordings of concerts made in the U.S. in 1993 and 1989, and others from 1983 and 1985, etc.... AND WE WOULD ALL LOVE TO HEAR FULL CONCERTS FROM THESE PERIODS OF TIME!!!!And I think it is legitimate for all the old and loyal fans to expect the stuff they've been wishing for so long, like:- The full 17 minutes version of Elegia;- The original recording of Let's Go with vocals;- All the B-Sides on CD;- The Salvation tracks on CD (I know it exists, but...);- Theme;- Homage;- The lost & infamous Young Offender remixes that were hidden in the offices of PolyGram Canada back in 1993;- The lost & infamous Vanishing Point single mix & remixes that were supposed to be released in 1989/1990;- The Razormaid remix(es) of Subculture;- Etc.There was so much to be done and there is so little given out. Very disappointing!!!

well, i'm not really sure that all of the live-recordings are from a soundbard. i remember reading an interview with Hooky, where he said, that the early stuff was edited from old tapes. Maybe they will run them through various filters and equalizers, but we shouldn't expect too much in sound quality. The Joy Division-recordings on "Heart & Soul" weren't too good either.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by Spotnick> Funny thing is.. Slow Jam has a different time that any version existing.> > Maybe they are planning to release it as a single for Retro? > > Probably not, it must be an error...

Fingers crossed that the track listing keeps with the New Order (though sadly I suspect it may have been Factory incompetence) tradition of mislabelling a track on many recordings. Wouldn't it be great if we sat back, expecting to hear Slow Jam next on Retro, only to be surprised by a completely different song ! Maybe even Love Vigilantes ;)

No no no. I'm SURE Love Vigilantes is not part of the boxset. :D

Originally posted by Marco Pleil > Originally posted by Warm Hands, Cold Heart> >

well, i'm not really sure that all of the live-recordings are from a soundbard. i remember reading an interview with Hooky, where he said, that the early stuff was edited from old tapes. Maybe they will run them through various filters and equalizers, but we shouldn't expect too much in sound quality. The Joy Division-recordings on "Heart & Soul" weren't too good either.

Definitely not all soundboard recordings. Most of them come from ATR's bootlegs !

It seems to be, from those in the know, that the band will never allow the fans to hear what they want i.e. demos. This is the major problem we have, the band are just not on the same wavelength as the fans and this doesn't appear to be healthy. Barney, it seems, would rather give us polished rubbish like Slow Jam rather than rough, unpolished stuff like the Western Works demos. Unfortunately, I for one often prefer the demo version of a song as it can capture the essence of the piece, something that can be 'produced out' if reworked too much. It's a shame the band doesn't understand this as the gap between them and the fans seems to be growing ever wider.

There has been talk of some of what you have previously mentioned FINALLY seeing the light of day on "A.N.Other " CD - You won't hear any demos though - just won't happen. The "Vanishing Point" remix(es) are being looked into along with the master of the rambling "Elegia" session. There ARE soundboard recordings - mainly unmixed DATs of many of the more recent dates - some even appearing as in-house samplers but I'm not sure what the band themselves feel about those recordings being released officially.

Well if that ever comes off it will be great as i love this particular song.When they played it at G-MEX in the 80's BARNEY declared this is a new song but the next time you hear us play it, it will be an oldy!Memories of a fantastic night.The quality of the live BOOTLEGS these days are good but proper soundboard of older shows would be great.But once all this is out of the way surely we can look forward to some NEW songs.The band have still a lot to offer IMHO.

I think that most people are missing the point with their complaints against Retro.

Surely as a selling tool it is not aimed at New Order fanatics who have practically every release but rather it is more aimed at casual New Order followers.

The number of completists will make up a very small proportion of the record buying public which in turn will create very little money for the record company which is in essence what it is ultimately all about. By having tracks which are already more commercially available the marketing company will attempt to attract a larger slice of the market by aiming at people who may only own 1 or 2 NO releases.

Whilst I, as a completist am pissed off with the track selection it would be unfair to slag off the record company as are only doing their job.

My point was not about what should or should not be on the Box Set but about the band's attitude to access to unreleased material. What's wrong with London Records setting up a small e-commerce site where sad fans like me could pay a fee to download demos, live tracks, etc ? It's money for old rope, where's the problem ? It would make money for the company, have little costs to set up & run, put the bootleggers out of business in one fell swoop, please the fans & it wouldn't interfere with their real job of repackaging the same songs over and over again for mass-market sales. The market in bootlegged material shows that the demand is there for unreleased material, it just needs a bit of imagination to tap into it.

...but we've been slagging off record companies for years. Why stop now?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Finally, another voice of reason! ;)

We don't want no steenkin' voice of reason.