New Order Versionography

A Guy called Ivan X on one of the NO Facebook pages has created a page that lists and links "every version of every song released from 1981 through 1989, plus some extras."

He can't log in here because the registration issue continues on this Forum, and he can't remember his old login details. I'll admit that I haven't "fact checked" the page so if you spot errors, don't blame me! You can contact him at the address on his page.

Anyway it's at Neworderversions.com

It might be a useful resource if you need to remind yourself which version of a track can be found where, or even just for a browse. There are also version breakdown charts for a handful of tracks: The Perfect Kiss, Bizarre Love Triangle, Temptation, Shellshock.

He says in his FB post:

If you looked in the past, come by again, because it now looks pretty, and is mobile-friendly. Enjoy! I hope it's a valuable resource for fans. Corrections and suggestions are welcome. In case you were wondering: The Perfect Kiss has the most versions (13), followed by Blue Monday (12), Bizarre Love Triangle (11), and Confusion (10).

The version of Fine Time on the U.K. yellow 12" is a distinct mix, not the album version. At 1:18 the album version has guitar strums. On the 12" it's a slide sound up the guitar neck.

This looks great. A real labour of love. I will say though that I think he should include World In Motion in a database of 'Factory era' New Order. It was their last proper release on the label, after all.

Only had a cursory glance so far, but was surprised that there's a 'promo edit' of Shame Of The Nation. Didn't know about that. One thing I did notice was missing is the alternate take of Salvation Theme that appears on the Rhino Low Life release.

I'll check my list over the next few days and see if I have any other differences.

Oh that is really good. Must have took some work to do. Easy to navigate, really simple and clear and yeah very mobile friendly

nice, but its seems like a lot is missing.

good start though.

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50poundnote wrote: The version of Fine Time on the U.K. yellow 12" is a distinct mix, not the album version. At 1:18 the album version has guitar strums. On the 12" it's a slide sound up the guitar neck.

This is the first time I've listened to these side by side. Prefer the album version personally. He's read your comment and added the 12".

perspexorange wrote: I will say though that I think he should include World In Motion in a database of 'Factory era' New Order. It was their last proper release on the label, after all.

Not being an England supporter, this doesn't bother me but I agree with you on the basis of completion.

perspexorange wrote:

One thing I did notice was missing is the alternate take of Salvation Theme that appears on the Rhino Low Life release.

He has read your comment here and added it.

Debaser wrote:

Not being an England supporter, this doesn't bother me but I agree with you on the basis of completion.

I'm going to guess he might not be an England supporter too. Either that or he just really hates the track.

I seem to remember that one or two of the people involved in the Recycle project commented at the time that they weren't fans of the track. But they still covered it - for completeness of the Factory years.

50poundnote wrote: The version of Fine Time on the U.K. yellow 12" is a distinct mix, not the album version. At 1:18 the album version has guitar strums. On the 12" it's a slide sound up the guitar neck.

I'd never noticed this in my life before, but I guess I didn't listen to the A-side of the 12" much after the LP came out.

Just dug my copy out for the first time in ages, to make a vinyl rip and noticed that it has a very weird spiral shading effect across the grooves. Anyone else notice that? It must just be to do with the layout of the frequencies/tempo, as Fine Line on the B-side looks the same, but Don't Do it looks like normal grooves

GotBlueEyes wrote: Just dug my copy out for the first time in ages, to make a vinyl rip and noticed that it has a very weird spiral shading effect across the grooves. Anyone else notice that?

Mine has it, too.

The Recycle files are sitting on my server. It'll save you from having to do your own rip.

Fine Time

50poundnote wrote:

GotBlueEyes wrote: Just dug my copy out for the first time in ages, to make a vinyl rip and noticed that it has a very weird spiral shading effect across the grooves. Anyone else notice that?

Mine has it, too.

The Recycle files are sitting on my server. It'll save you from having to do your own rip.

Fine Time

I was sure that I had all the rips I needed from the Recycle project back in the day so I actually dug out my zip of the web pages, and the different version is mentioned, but it looks like it may have been an addition to the original FT post after you pointed it out?

That's the only reason I can think that I missed it at the time

GotBlueEyes wrote: I was sure that I had all the rips I needed from the Recycle project back in the day so I actually dug out my zip of the web pages, and the different version is mentioned, but it looks like it may have been an addition to the original FT post after you pointed it out?

That's the only reason I can think that I missed it at the time.

2009 was a long time ago! It's very possible we caught it after the files had been shared.

Did the Recycle project also pick up on there being two different versions of the full length 'Hurt'? The one on the UK FAC63 12" is a slightly different mix to the version on the 1982-1982 EP and all subsequent reissues.

Mr Discography wrote: Did the Recycle project also pick up on there being two different versions of the full length 'Hurt'? The one on the UK FAC63 12" is a slightly different mix to the version on the 1982-1982 EP and all subsequent reissues.

I only know the full-length, the 7" edit, and the Substance edit. What/where are the differences?

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Did the Recycle project also pick up on there being two different versions of the full length 'Hurt'? The one on the UK FAC63 12" is a slightly different mix to the version on the 1982-1982 EP and all subsequent reissues.

I only know the full-length, the 7" edit, and the Substance edit. What/where are the differences?

I remember the part around 6:15 where it drops down and the "no more mistakes" line coming out of that - different dub/delay effects going on definitely

GotBlueEyes wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Did the Recycle project also pick up on there being two different versions of the full length 'Hurt'? The one on the UK FAC63 12" is a slightly different mix to the version on the 1982-1982 EP and all subsequent reissues.

I only know the full-length, the 7" edit, and the Substance edit. What/where are the differences?

I remember the part around 6:15 where it drops down and the "no more mistakes" line coming out of that - different dub/delay effects going on definitely

Copied and pasted from my message on the 'Substance' reissue thread:

I had a listen to various versions of the full length 'Hurt', and there definitely are two versions:

1. FAC 63 original 12": version with the echo on the voice at 6:20 ("no more mistakes") - link to section on YouTube
2. 1981-1982 - 12" and CD versions + 'Movement (Collector's Edition) + 2019 remastered 'Temptation' single: version without the above echoes - link to section on YouTube

I suspect there are other subtle differences in the mix and effects both takes.

There are also two versions of the 'Substance' edit:

1. 1987 version with the echo on the voice at 5:10 ("no more mistakes") - link to section on YouTube
2. 2023 version without the above echo - link to section on YouTube

So, we're dealing with two different versions floating around, just as we were with 'In A Lonely Place'. In actual fact it seems the "authentic" original version is the one with more echoes, as that was on the original 12". The assumption is '1981-1982' mistakenly used an alternate take, and that alternate take was used to create the new 2023 Substance edit. The original FAC63 12" version still remains unreleased digitally - a shame they got it wrong on the remastered single release.

Round & Round (US promo edit). 3:47

The Perfect Kiss [Canadian promo edit (of 12-inch)] 5:26

Temptation (24 Hour Party People edit [of 1987 Substance recording]) 5:43

[Bizarre Love Triangle (Extended Edit) [US promo only version] 4:58 "This version of Bizarre Love Triangle was only released on a promotional 12-inch single on Qwest Records in 1986. It is an edit of the 6.41 12-inch version, with an abbreviated intro, and some instrumental bridges removed." I like this edit of the Shep 12". Feels more grown up than the slightly indulgent full length 12" version.

I like that edited BLT. Thsnks.

IvanX has posted a lot of comments about his Versionography on JD NO thread on Steve Hoffman forum. pages 138-139