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...It’s been 10 years since its critically-acclaimed album, “Music Complete,” was delivered to fans, who are understandably craving a new project. Sumner says the delay comes down to general motivation to write again, with some members wanting to do so and others not being “too keen.”
“I’m one of the ones that does,” Sumner assures. “That’s all I can say, really.”
What?: L.A.Times.com
Andy wrote: ...It’s been 10 years since its critically-acclaimed album, “Music Complete,” was delivered to fans, who are understandably craving a new project. Sumner says the delay comes down to general motivation to write again, with some members wanting to do so and others not being “too keen.”
“I’m one of the ones that does,” Sumner assures. “That’s all I can say, really.”
What?: L.A.Times.com
You can pretty much hear the sarcasm dripping from the screen there eh?
Stephen has mentioned constantly tinkering with stuff in his studio all the time, and there is no way that Phil and Tom are passing up the opportunity to get some more PRS credits on a NO album
Which kind of reminded me that the writing credits on MC were just diplomatically "New Order" but the splits on the PRS database give a clearer picture
Everything is split:
Bernard 50% with Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 12.5% each
Except for the 3 co-writes
Unlearn This Hatred - Tom Rowlands 35%, Bernard 40%, Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 6.25% each
Singularity - Tom Rowlands 40%, Bernard 40% with Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 5% each
Superheated - Brandon Flowers 20%, Bernard 70% with Tom and Phil 5% each
The latter surprised me as I always assumed it was mainly Brandon Flowers song!
EDIT
Be A Rebel has a slightly different split
Bernard 70%, Gillian and Steve 6.25% each, Phil 12.5% and Tom 5%
GotBlueEyes wrote: Which kind of reminded me that the writing credits on MC were just diplomatically "New Order" but the splits on the PRS database give a clearer picture
Everything is split:
Bernard 50% with Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 12.5% each
Except for the 3 co-writes
Unlearn This Hatred - Tom Rowlands 35%, Bernard 40%, Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 6.25% each
Singularity - Tom Rowlands 40%, Bernard 40% with Stephen, Gillian, Tom and Phil 5% each
Superheated - Brandon Flowers 20%, Bernard 70% with Tom and Phil 5% each
The latter surprised me as I always assumed it was mainly Brandon Flowers song!
EDIT
Be A Rebel has a slightly different split
Bernard 70%, Gillian and Steve 6.25% each, Phil 12.5% and Tom 5%
I suspect the 35% to Tom Rowlands on "Unlearn" was being generous. You can definitely hear Rowlands in the production/synths but the song itself was written by Bernard and given to Digitalism years earlier.
I get the feeling that Bernard has often been the main songwriter in NO, even in the Factory days. It's not a huge surprise to see him getting 50% of entire songs.
A far as I'm aware, you have to have membership of PRS in order to look this stuff up. Is that right? Someone I know used to make music professionally so he had/has PRS membership and he can look things up. That person did look at the Factoty era years for me and confirmed that the "Fab four" did split things 25% each back then. A while ago he told me that the PRS website format had changed, but maybe he was just tired of me asking him to check things!
But the average Joe can't jump on the website and check this info, can he/we?
Andy wrote: ...It’s been 10 years since its critically-acclaimed album, “Music Complete,” was delivered to fans, who are understandably craving a new project. Sumner says the delay comes down to general motivation to write again, with some members wanting to do so and others not being “too keen.”
“I’m one of the ones that does,” Sumner assures. “That’s all I can say, really.”
What?: L.A.Times.com
If Uncle Bernard wants to release new music there is nothing to stop him IMO. If it's the same standard as Be A Rebel then maybe other members understandably don't want to proceed. I'm honestly fine if they never release new music unless it is substantially different. I don't want people older than me releasing disco-pop tunes - leave that to Sophie Ellis Bextor or Nile Rogers.
Debaser wrote:
A far as I'm aware, you have to have membership of PRS in order to look this stuff up. Is that right? Someone I know used to make music professionally so he had/has PRS membership and he can look things up. That person did look at the Factoty era years for me and confirmed that the "Fab four" did split things 25% each back then. A while ago he told me that the PRS website format had changed, but maybe he was just tired of me asking him to check things!
But the average Joe can't jump on the website and check this info, can he/we?
No - you need to be a registered (paid-up) member, but I'm happy to look stuff up if you're interested in anything else. I only have access because I help a friend manage their account. The authorship database and process is a mess it has to be said. NO's looks in great shape compared to his! There seem to be a lot of smaller publishers who take the mick and work on the assumption that a lot of musicians are too useless and "artistic" to pay close attention to how their work is credited (and they are probably right - hence why I help manage my friends!)
If the band does not want to release music he can make his own solo album, he has so many guitar riffs , lyrics and piano chords from over the years to easily make a great album, even if he made 1 song a year he could have finished 10 songs for an album by now, what is taking them so long to make something, I just don't get it, 10 years is TOO LONG.
tapebias wrote:
If Uncle Bernard wants to release new music there is nothing to stop him IMO. If it's the same standard as Be A Rebel then maybe other members understandably don't want to proceed. I'm honestly fine if they never release new music unless it is substantially different. I don't want people older than me releasing disco-pop tunes - leave that to Sophie Ellis Bextor or Nile Rogers.
Personally I thought this 'disco-pop' tune was better than Be A Rebel. I realise it probably doesn't have the "oomph" that NO fans would like from the overall producton. But if Bernard can still write a melody this catchy and the others can help turn those melodies into NO tunes, then I'm open to it. This is Bernard's most recent 'new' music isn't it?
GotBlueEyes wrote:
I'm happy to look stuff up if you're interested in anything else.
Yes please... What was the royalties split on this Riptide track?
Debaser wrote:
tapebias wrote:
If Uncle Bernard wants to release new music there is nothing to stop him IMO. If it's the same standard as Be A Rebel then maybe other members understandably don't want to proceed. I'm honestly fine if they never release new music unless it is substantially different. I don't want people older than me releasing disco-pop tunes - leave that to Sophie Ellis Bextor or Nile Rogers.
Personally I thought this 'disco-pop' tune was better than Be A Rebel. I realise it probably doesn't have the "oomph" that NO fans would like from the overall producton. But if Bernard can still write a melody this catchy and the others can help turn those melodies into NO tunes, then I'm open to it. This is Bernard's most recent 'new' music isn't it?
GotBlueEyes wrote:
I'm happy to look stuff up if you're interested in anything else.
IMO Bernard's best disco-pop tunes were with Mark Reeder. I'd have like to have seen them do an album together but maybe that ship has sailed. I was hopeful of a more ambient/thoughtful approach from BS/NO as the disco-pop market is already saturated. There doesn't seem to be any musical progression IMO which is fine as I'm more than happy with their repertoire and don't want or expect a new release.
Debaser wrote:
Yes please... What was the royalties split on this Riptide track?
Bernard 50% Ryan Aitchison (Mella Dee) and a third unnamed non-PRS member 25% each
Some more NO fun stuff from PRS while it's Friday
The 4 (original) NO members all get 5% from MIA's "20 Dollar" - which to be honest seems like a good deal for them!
and The Handsome Furs have given NO 50% authorship of this tune
Likewise - another track based on a JD song that I hadn't heard GW Sok - Around The Corner
And what on earth is "Aux Lagueurs Dapollon"
Credited to the 4 Joy Division members, but was only registered in September 2019 ? Google not helping me
Laughable that they all get credits on the Ali Payama & Warp Brothers track "Blade" - because it samples the Pump Panel remix of Confusion (but not to my ears - any part that could be identified as being by NO)
And finally for today (I'm only up to B!)
Finished off my trawl of the database the other day, nothing too exciting but I did notice the credits for the three new original songs on the Control soundtrack were not as expected/as printed on the release. Is that common knowledge?
Also a couple of the WFTSC songs have their original working titles in brackets - which I think has been discussed and probably deciphered already, but to clarify Guilt Is A Useles Emotion (FKA Fast Synth) Hey Now What You Doing (FKA Road To Ruin) Who's Joe (FKA Lordsy)
Scott Walker gets a writing credit for Recoil too - which was a surprise. The original title was 'Scott Walker' I know, but hadn't seen that they formally credited him. I guess after the John Denver incident they don't take chances any more
And a few covers that I'd not heard before
Andy wrote:
“I’m one of the ones that does,” Sumner assures. “That’s all I can say, really.”
What?:
Yeah. I agree. Based on what we know*, this seems a little unlikely. Bernard, love him as I do, strikes me as one of the members most likely to put the brakes on.
I can imagine Steve and Gillian being receptive to it. They're presumably always tinkering around in their studio, so would probably have some ideas. Maybe, if they are reluctant, it could be due to the fact that it will likely take years to make. Gone are the days when they could crack out an LP in a couple of months. Tracks seem to be endlessly 'perfected' these days.
As pointed out earlier in the thread, I can't imagine Phil or Tom would turn down a NO LP payday (although I guess they make far more money from touring). They're younger and probably pretty keen to stamp their mark on the band's back catalogue. Also, even if they didn't want to, they might still go ahead with the other three's wishes. They certainly won't have as much weight when it comes to deciding the direction of the band and probably wouldn't want B, S & G getting to the point where they might be fed up with them.
But, I guess you have to take Bernard at his word. In one way, this is possibly good news. As we suspected, and has been proved earlier in the thread, he's the main songwriter at present. If he's getting itchy feet on wanting write new material, there's a good chance he can persuade the others. More NO is always good and I'd much rather they were writing a new EP/LP than touring. They can tour it afterwards if they want. :-)
* Do we really know anything about the band's inner workings? Probably not, but it's fun to speculate.
perspexorange wrote:
Andy wrote:
“I’m one of the ones that does,” Sumner assures. “That’s all I can say, really.”
What?:
Yeah. I agree. Based on what we know*, this seems a little unlikely. Bernard, love him as I do, strikes me as one of the members most likely to put the brakes on.
I can imagine Steve and Gillian being receptive to it. They're presumably always tinkering around in their studio, so would probably have some ideas. Maybe, if they are reluctant, it could be due to the fact that it will likely take years to make. Gone are the days when they could crack out an LP in a couple of months. Tracks seem to be endlessly 'perfected' these days.
As pointed out earlier in the thread, I can't imagine Phil or Tom would turn down a NO LP payday (although I guess they make far more money from touring). They're younger and probably pretty keen to stamp their mark on the band's back catalogue. Also, even if they didn't want to, they might still go ahead with the other three's wishes. They certainly won't have as much weight when it comes to deciding the direction of the band and probably wouldn't want B, S & G getting to the point where they might be fed up with them.
But, I guess you have to take Bernard at his word. In one way, this is possibly good news. As we suspected, and has been proved earlier in the thread, he's the main songwriter at present. If he's getting itchy feet on wanting write new material, there's a good chance he can persuade the others. More NO is always good and I'd much rather they were writing a new EP/LP than touring. They can tour it afterwards if they want. :-)
* Do we really know anything about the band's inner workings? Probably not, but it's fun to speculate.
Bernard has been known to fib. But I can't understand what his motivation would be to not tell the truth in this situation, so who knows...
GotBlueEyes wrote: Finished off my trawl of the database the other day, nothing too exciting but I did notice the credits for the three new original songs on the Control soundtrack were not as expected/as printed on the release. Is that common knowledge?
Also a couple of the WFTSC songs have their original working titles in brackets - which I think has been discussed and probably deciphered already, but to clarify Guilt Is A Useles Emotion (FKA Fast Synth) Hey Now What You Doing (FKA Road To Ruin) Who's Joe (FKA Lordsy)
Scott Walker gets a writing credit for Recoil too - which was a surprise. The original title was 'Scott Walker' I know, but hadn't seen that they formally credited him. I guess after the John Denver incident they don't take chances any more
And a few covers that I'd not heard before
How do the Control soundtrack credits differ? (Listed as "Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook and Stephen Morris" on my WB/Rhino release.)
Andy wrote:
How do the Control soundtrack credits differ? (Listed as "Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook and Stephen Morris" on my WB/Rhino release.)
That's what I thought. There is a 4th person credited, but I suspect it's a private matter so I won't disclose it on the public forum. PM me if you're interested
GotBlueEyes wrote:
Andy wrote:
How do the Control soundtrack credits differ? (Listed as "Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook and Stephen Morris" on my WB/Rhino release.)
There is a 4th person credited, but I suspect it's a private matter so I won't disclose it on the public forum. PM me if you're interested
This is mentioned in my book.
Dennis Remmer wrote:
GotBlueEyes wrote:
Andy wrote:
How do the Control soundtrack credits differ? (Listed as "Bernard Sumner, Peter Hook and Stephen Morris" on my WB/Rhino release.)
There is a 4th person credited, but I suspect it's a private matter so I won't disclose it on the public forum. PM me if you're interested
This is mentioned in my book.
Ah I knew it rang a bell, but couldn't find anything online. Presumably you had access to the Rights authorship data too, because I don't think Natalie Curtis is mentioned on the soundtrack album itself?
He could Have Definitely made another Bad Lieutenant album if the other NO Members were busy, I am sure Phil would have joined in with the others, it would have been a decent album that the fans would have loved.
I'm sure I could look in the archives, but easy to just ask here - wasn't a 2nd BL album underway when New Order reformed (sans Hooky) for the Michael Shamberg benefit? I recall a contest for BL album #2 artwork being held among students. (and fopr that matter, wasn;t there a 3rd Other Two album in mid recoding around then too?)
if we go by when Joy Division formed (as Stiff Kittens), it's 50 years in June of next year. 50 years of music. That's more than enough.
There are so few examples of a late-period band releasing an album as good as Music Complete. I'm fine if that's it (I don't rate Be A Rebel).
It's a common misconception that artists are driven to work. For some people, creativity flows out of them naturally. For others, it takes an effort. Bernard will be 70 in January, with Stephen closing in on 68 and Gillian closing in on 65. If they want a slower pace with sporadic live shows, let them enjoy it. They don't owe us anything.
LostSiren wrote: I'm sure I could look in the archives, but easy to just ask here - wasn't a 2nd BL album underway when New Order reformed (sans Hooky) for the Michael Shamberg benefit? I recall a contest for BL album #2 artwork being held among students. (and fopr that matter, wasn;t there a 3rd Other Two album in mid recoding around then too?)
I believe so.
"Restless" and "Academic" don't stray too far from what Bad Lieutenant were doing on their 1st album.
Gillian and Stephen were said to have been primarily responsible for the music of "Stray Dog" and "The Game". Definitely O2 adjacent.
First update to the Tour page of their website in a long time: NewOrder.com
No shows for the rest of the calendar year, but that doesn't mean they're in the studio. Phil and Tom will be busy with Sea Fever. Don't hold your breath, people.
To summarize:
Bernard says he's open to writing more music with New Order, but other members aren't "too keen".
The latest announcement on the official website is that there are no more concerts this year (2025).
Announcement on the site last November (prior to gigs in Japan, Australia and North America): "We are aware of news that claims the band will be releasing a new studio album and will be embarking on a world tour, news that is incorrect."
I hope that makes everything clear.
