[twitter]1978815193015583222[/twitter]

will be getting all of them.

blurays have new mixes, should be interesting.

refer back to previous atmos thread: http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5245

later | | || | | ne gative 1

No PCL, not even surprised! There are always holes in the racket with New Order.

Instrumentals? 😊

negative1 wrote: refer back to previous atmos thread: http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=5245

I forgot there was a thread already. Sorry for that. Is there a way to merge both threads?

But... we do have new 2xCD editions announced today. The new "Collector's Editions"? The 2nd discs appear to be the same as the "extras" CDs from the definitive sets.

here is the super deluxe edition article:

https://superdeluxeedition.com/news/new-order-albums-on-blu-ray-in-dolby-atmos/

later | | ||| | | ne gative 1

I have a Blu-ray player, and a great Denon amp. Unfortunately, my house is too small to wire up surround speakers. I did a free trial of Apple Music a few months ago, just to see how these sounded on my phone and earbuds that both could handle Dolby Atmos. I don't think that did them justice, as you don't get a full surround sound on two earbuds (for obvious reasons).

These are clearly newly created mixes from the multi tracks (obviously), and it's interesting to see how they've attempted to approximate some of the original outboard effects (reverb, delays etc.) that wouldn't have been on those multi tracks and would've originally been mixed down with the other tracks when the two-channel masters were made.

Invariably, all the tracks sound ever so slightly different - particularly 'The Perfect Kiss', which I thought sounded a lot 'thinner' than the '85 original. I note they've removed the "wh...." clipped "when" from Barney's vocal before the edit in the middle.

I will buy these Blu-rays though, as it'll be great to have the instrumental versions. I'm sure I'll be able to rip stereo versions into my digital music library. I'll wait to see if they crop up on Amazon to hopefully get them cheaper than the official store bundle.

There was also a surround version of 'Blue Monday's not included in these releases.

Did they not do a Dolby Atmos version of 'Power, Corruption & Lies' at all?

Looking forward to this release. I enjoyed listening to Low-Life in Atmos. Instrumentals are a nice bonus.

Thanks for this, Mr.D.

I listened to the Movement and Low Life ( and Blue Monday) Dolby Atmos mixes on Apple Music a few months back and posted my thoughts about them in the other thread. But yeah, Movement definitely my fave of the Dolby Atmos mixes. Obviously yet to hear the Brotherhood one but i assume it'll be available on Apple Music like the previously released stuff. Guess it'd be nice to have physical copies of each though and the Blu Ray size cases.We'll see.Wasn't it impossible or something to do a Dolby Atmos mix of PCL because of not compatible multi tracks something?( which meant that when they came to remastering the album for the Definitive Edition box made it very difficult to do? Vaguely recall Streve saying in an interview words to that effect) . Not sure and was all a bit too technical for me.

As for the new x2 CD editions, yep looks like CD2 on each duplicate the stuff already available on the definitive editions and as i'm not a completist i have zero reason to purchase these new CDs. Still, handy for people who didn't want to buy the definitive edition box sets but would like the session etc versions.

Rorschach wrote: Instrumentals? 😊

Well, yeah, guess it's referring to some of the stuff on the new CD x2 editions. All Day Long instrumental for example , already available on the Defintive Edition box from last yeat and which will be on the second CD of the Brotherhood one .

Edit: oh i see what you mean now, Rorschach. Apologies.

I'd only looked at the tracklisting and not the product details on NewOrder store for each Blu Ray and as of last night i just saw the standard track list for each.On Amazon Spain the tracklist includes instrumentals of everything and also the 2015 remaster, DTS 5.1 mix, Steve Wilson stereo mix as well as the Steve Willson Dolby Atmos mix

The listing for Brotherhood on Amazon Spain includes also an "Upscale" of As It Is As It Was and Broken Promise, not a Dolby Atmos mix of either. "Upscale 1" for those 2 in the Dolby Atmos yracklist and the 2 songs then listed as "Upscale 2" on the DTS 5.1 list. So those 2 songs were not possible to do in Dolby Atmos, but "upscaled" ? I really not sure of differences between Dolby Atmos and Upscale

Can't see the Blu Rays listed on Amazon UK yet but if they do include the instrumentals of every song on each then i'll be more inclined to buy.

Fotz wrote:

Wasn't it impossible or something to do a Dolby Atmos mix of PCL because of not compatible multi tracks something?( which meant that when they came to remastering the album for the Definitive Edition box made it very difficult to do? Vaguely recall Streve saying in an interview words to that effect) . Not sure and was all a bit too technical for me.

Jcp7 wrote: No PCL, not even surprised! There are always holes in the racket with New Order.

Yes, the multitracks for Power corruption and lies, were missing, so that is why it was not done. or being released.

later | || | | | | ne gative 1

negative1 wrote:

Fotz wrote:

Wasn't it impossible or something to do a Dolby Atmos mix of PCL because of not compatible multi tracks something?( which meant that when they came to remastering the album for the Definitive Edition box made it very difficult to do? Vaguely recall Streve saying in an interview words to that effect) . Not sure and was all a bit too technical for me.

Jcp7 wrote: No PCL, not even surprised! There are always holes in the racket with New Order.

Yes, the multitracks for Power corruption and lies, were missing, so that is why it was not done. or being released.

later | || | | | | ne gative 1

Ok, thanks negz. But they were though able to do a Dolby Atmos of Blue Monday. From same era as PCL but though there were multi tracks of BM there wasn't of PCL? Confused😕 . Think in a piece about the Dolby Atmos mixes a while back that someone on here linked to in the other thread, Steve talked about Steve Wilson had to recreate the sound of the opening beats to BM because of no or incompatible multi tracks for it but Steve ( Morris) felt it didn't match the original sound. So in the end they sampled the original opening beats sound and recreated it that way. But then what about the rest of the track? Bit short on time right now to find the link to the piece where it's explained way better than my half remembered attempt. There are of course multi tracks of BM out there and have been for many years, i obtained a download of them myself some years back even.I guess they weren't usable for a Dolby Atmos mix? Confused😕

Fotz wrote:

negative1 wrote:

Fotz wrote:

Wasn't it impossible or something to do a Dolby Atmos mix of PCL because of not compatible multi tracks something?( which meant that when they came to remastering the album for the Definitive Edition box made it very difficult to do? Vaguely recall Streve saying in an interview words to that effect) . Not sure and was all a bit too technical for me.

Jcp7 wrote: No PCL, not even surprised! There are always holes in the racket with New Order.

Yes, the multitracks for Power corruption and lies, were missing, so that is why it was not done. or being released.

later | || | | | | ne gative 1

Ok, thanks negz. But they were though able to do a Dolby Atmos of Blue Monday. From same era as PCL but though there were multi tracks of BM there wasn't of PCL? Confused😕 . Think in a piece about the Dolby Atmos mixes a while back that someone on here linked to in the other thread, Steve talked about Steve Wilson had to recreate the sound of the opening beats to BM because of no or incompatible multi tracks for it but Steve ( Morris) felt it didn't match the original sound. So in the end they sampled the original opening beats sound and recreated it that way. But then what about the rest of the track? Bit short on time right now to find the link to the piece where it's explained way better than my half remembered attempt. There are of course multi tracks of BM out there and have been for many years, i obtained a download of them myself some years back even.I guess they weren't usable for a Dolby Atmos mix? Confused😕

The reason BM was able to be done is because the multi track was copied in 1988, and I'm sure you know why. The original has since gone missing (maybe left in the studio at the time?). The sampling of the kick was because Steven was trying to replicate the post production of the original and somehow it was proving difficult to get it quite right, in the end he resorted to sampling.

Ah, brilliant. Many thanks for clearing that one up, Johnny.

Recreating the 'Blue Monday' kick drum was discussed by Stephen Morris and Steven Wilson at an event. It's summarised at https://louderthanwar.com/listen-to-new-mixes-of-new-orders-movement-low-life-and-blue-monday-review-interview/

"Was Blue Monday hard? … getting that bass drum, which is the most arguably, one of the most iconic bass drums found in history. The bass drum that came up on the multi-track tape. That’s not even the same, that’s not the same bass drum, it sounded nothing like it at all. So, I EQ’ ed it and I processed it, and I sent it to Stephen, and I said, is this close enough because it’s not close enough? Spoiler alert: we ended up just sampling the bass drum off the original. That is impossible. To recreate circumstances, rooms, locations, and effects units that don’t exist anymore…"

iMusic.dk has the blu-rays for £19.99 each

Mr. Disco wrote: iMusic.dk has the blu-rays for £19.99 each

Ah interesting, I'm sure when it was announced yesterday it was saying that the surround/atmos blu-rays were SDE exclusives? It no longer says that, so hopefully they will be more widely available and the customer has a choice not to buy via SDE (they have some suspect customer service practices from what I've read)

Edit - buy the bundle of 3 direct from the New Order shop for £56.99 https://store.neworder.com/gb/blu-ray-album-bundle/5026854120102.html

As opposed to £70 from SDE - rob dogs

GotBlueEyes wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote: iMusic.dk has the blu-rays for £19.99 each

Ah interesting, I'm sure when it was announced yesterday it was saying that the surround/atmos blu-rays were SDE exclusives? It no longer says that, so hopefully they will be more widely available and the customer has a choice not to buy via SDE (they have some suspect customer service practices from what I've read)

Edit - buy the bundle of 3 direct from the New Order shop for £56.99 https://store.neworder.com/gb/blu-ray-album-bundle/5026854120102.html

As opposed to £70 from SDE - rob dogs

i've bought plenty of things from SDE..

and they've stated they were not exclusives from the beginning.

never had an issue, and don't know of anyone else that has...

yes, they had the whole tariff thing going on, but even that's been settled.

if you order from them, i wouldn't hesitate in recommending them for bundles or other items.

later ||| || | | || ne gative 1

My problem with SDE is the snarky way that the owner sometimes responds to comments posted to the release news on his website.

One that particularly sticks in my craw is when he got annoyed with people who (justifiably) commented that his ‘Brotherhood: Definitive Edition’ review focussed purely on the songs on the original LP, rather than the contents of the box. A) You’d think anyone who was planning on buying a £150 box would know the standard album pretty well and B) for a website that is specifically aimed at ‘owning deluxe editions in a physical format’, you’d think they’d want to provide some insight on the box and its contents.

He got really quite uppity at people (as he put it) ‘telling him how to run his website’. There are other similar examples I’ve seen over the years and have heard of people having fair comments removed and him banning people after they have supposedly left legitimate comments.

For this reason, unless something is ‘exclusive’, I will avoid buying from that site.

I noticed that the NewOrder store, although, quite cheap, adds a further £4.49 shipping costs in the UK.

Will probably hold out and see what Amazon are going to charge.

negative1 wrote: they've stated they were not exclusives from the beginning.

never had an issue, and don't know of anyone else that has...

Ah OK - I must have just been reading it wrong, or maybe because they broke the news and I couldn't find the blu-rays on-sale anywhere else that day. Plus the fact he was selling them in his shop rather than posting his Amazon affiliate links usually means that it's an exclusive (and I know his big beef right now is record companies NOT selling physical spatial audio products in preference to streaming them on Apple Music)

Anyway - aside from the snarkiness that perspexorange mentions (which is common and does little to endear himself to folks) the issues I've heard about recently are where he has been drip feeding the pre-sales of his exclusives, and then causing people problems with refunds/shipping when customers try to combine orders to save on postage. Just seems needlessly money-grubbing when he clearly has a very lucrative business already

ii don't want to sound like there is no problems with SDE..

yes, paul, is very confrontational at times, yes, he blocks people, and defends his actions and site.

there are couple of issues with his method.

1 he has rules dictating what he can release, and when from the studios which has no control over

2 he always tries to promote bundles, but sometimes doesn't say what it is, so you're taking a chance

3 since some are exclusive, if you don't order some right away, the more popular ones sell out.

4 cancelling orders, can be painful, and you can be charged for that too

for me, i just order whatever i want when it comes out, if theres a bundle, fine, but most often times not......

i'm not rich, but i haven't been buying music for half the year, or longer.... so i have a lot saved up for releases that i knew were coming out... so the price is not really a factor for me..

shipping prices, i order stuff from someone overseas that packs and ships everything to me in a bundle, so i'm not really paying more..

of course, not everyone can do this..

so there are constant complaints about the price of the items, the bundles, and all the other problems..

again, i've never had an issue, because i never interact with him, had to cancel anything, or get a refund...

so it all depends on what you do, how you deal with those issues, and if you feel they are worthwhile...

your options are

1. don't buy it from him
2. buy them from discogs, ebay later on, and take a chance on price going up or down
3. hope that there is a release on other websites, amazon, etc..

later | | ||| | || ne gative 1

I've pre-ordered Low-Life, 'cause it's my favourite from the lot. The instrumentals got me in, so let's see how it goes 👍

perspexorange wrote:

I noticed that the NewOrder store, although, quite cheap, adds a further £4.49 shipping costs in the UK.

The UK shipping on the bundle from the SDE store is £5, so they are having our trousers down in all ways. Makes it a nice and easy decision to buy it from anywhere but SDE

On Amazon, the Brotherhood track listing is very strange😕.

Paradise (2024 Remaster) 2 Weirdo (2024 Remaster) 3 As It Is When It Was (2024 Remaster) 4 Broken Promise (2024 Remaster) 5 Way of Life (2024 Remaster) 6 Bizarre Love Triangle (2024 Remaster) 7 All Day Long (2024 Remaster) 8 Angel Dust (2024 Remaster) 9 Every Little Counts (2024 Remaster) 10 State of the Nation (2024 Remasterl ________________________________________________________ 11 AS IT IS WHEN IT WAS STEVEN WILSON UPSCALE MIX 1 12 BROKEN PROMISE STEVEN WILSON UPSCALE MIX 1 13 PARADISE STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 14 WEIRDO STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 15 AS IT IS WHEN IT WAS STEVEN WILSON UPSCALE MIX 2 16 BROKEN PROMISE STEVEN WILSON UPSCALE MIX 2 ________________________________________________________ 17 WAY OF LIFE STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 18 BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 19 ALL DAY LONG STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 20 ANGEL DUST STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 21 EVERY LITTLE COUNTS STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX 22 STATE OF THE NATION STEVEN WILSON DTS 5 1 MIX ________________________________________________________ 23 PARADISE STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 24 WEIRDO STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 25 WAY OF LIFE STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 26 BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 27 ALL DAY LONG STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 28 ANGEL DUST STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 29 EVERY LITTLE COUNTS STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX 30 STATE OF THE NATION STEVEN WILSON STEREO MIX ________________________________________________________ 31 PARADISE STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 32 WEIRDO STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 33 WAY OF LIFE STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 34 BIZARRE LOVE TRIANGLE STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 35 ALL DAY LONG STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 36 ANGEL DUST STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 37 EVERY LITTLE COUNTS STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX 38 STATE OF THE NATION STEVEN WILSON INSTRUMENTAL MIX

Hmmm. I was checking the Amazon.co.uk site earlier today and noticed some weirdness, but different weirdness to the one you've noticed:

1 Paradise (2024 Remaster) 2 Weirdo (2024 Remaster) 3 As It Is When It Was (2024 Remaster) 4 Broken Promise (2024 Remaster) 5 Way of Life (2024 Remaster) 6 Bizarre Love Triangle (2024 Remaster) 7 All Day Long (2024 Remaster) 8 Angel Dust (2024 Remaster) 9 Every Little Counts (2024 Remaster) 10 State of the Nation (2024 Remaster)

11 Paradise (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 12 Weirdo (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 13 As It Is When It Was (Steven Wilson Upscale Mix 1) 14 Broken Promise (Steven Wilson Upscale Mix 1) 15 Way of Life (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 16 Bizarre Love Triangle (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 17 All Day Long (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 18 Angel Dust (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 19 Every Little Counts (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix) 20 State of the Nation (Steven Wilson Atmos Mix)

21 Paradise (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 22 Weirdo (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 23 As It Is When It Was (Steven Wilson Upscale Mix 2) 24 Broken Promise (Steven Wilson Upscale Mix 2) 25 Way of Life (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 26 Bizarre Love Triangle (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 27 All Day Long (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 28 Angel Dust (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 29 Every Little Counts (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix) 30 State of the Nation (Steven Wilson DTS 5.1 Mix)

31 Paradise (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 32 Weirdo (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 33 Way of Life (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 34 Bizarre Love Triangle (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 35 All Day Long (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 36 Angel Dust (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 37 Every Little Counts (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix) 38 State of the Nation (Steven Wilson Stereo Mix)

39 Paradise (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 40 Weirdo (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 41 Way of Life (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 42 Bizarre Love Triangle (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 43 All Day Long (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 44 Angel Dust (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 45 Every Little Counts (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix) 46 State of the Nation (Steven Wilson Instrumental Mix)

Last two batches are missing As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise.

Think i posted earlier in thread that i'd read somewhere online that the multi tracks for As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise are lost. I guess that means those 2 sonngs could not have the Dolby Atmos mix and are thus just " Upscale" mixes. And it affects other mixes of those 2 also, so no instrumental mixes ?

Fotz wrote: Think i posted earlier in thread that i'd read somewhere online that the multi tracks for As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise are lost. I guess that means those 2 sonngs could not have the Dolby Atmos mix and are thus just " Upscale" mixes. And it affects other mixes of those 2 also, so no instrumental mixes ?

Yes you did. Sorry Fotz. My memory, I swear, is getting worse by the week. No joke.

Fotz wrote: Think i posted earlier in thread that i'd read somewhere online that the multi tracks for As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise are lost. I guess that means those 2 sonngs could not have the Dolby Atmos mix and are thus just " Upscale" mixes. And it affects other mixes of those 2 also, so no instrumental mixes ?

Yet there was an original studio stereo instrumental mix of 'Broken Promise' on the 'Brotherhood' Definitive Edition that could've been reused for this.

Wonder if there's an original instrumental of 'As It Is....' kicking round anywhere as well?

^ Oh yeah there was , wasn't the! Good point, Mr D.

Release date for these is tomorrow. I've had no shipping confirmation yet. Anyone else got one?

Ordered on Monday (Amazon). No confirmation yet.

My copies (from Amazon UK) still say 'arriving tomorrow'.

Weirdly though, I had an email this morning telling me to update my payment method, else they wouldn't be able to fulfil my order. Not sure what the problem was, as my saved card was in date and information was correctly entered.

I think I've fixed it, but I'm half expecting to wake up to an email saying that couldn't dispatch due to the same issue.

Incidentally, when I ordered these a couple of weeks back, they were more expensive on Amazon than the NewOrder Store. I ordered them anyway, expecting the price to drop. Checking today, the price has dropped to a much better £16.55 price point. If anyone was holding off for them to get cheaper, now might be the time to take the plunge.

Well i haven't taken plunge and ordered yet. Can't make up my mind whether to bother with these or not. I can and have listened to the Dolby Atmos mixed of Movement and Low Life a number of times in recent months on Apple Music. Played over WiFi from my phone or tablet to the Sonos speaker set up i have ( 2 Sonos Era 100 speakers and a Sonos Beam soundbar) and hear mixed results. Listening to This Time Of Night recently there's fabulous detail with the synths but i could hardly hear the drums . Really odd .Played about with EQ settings through the Sonos app but still didn't make a difference. Still. the cowbell on TPK certainly flew around clearly from speaker to speaker. And the Movement album takes on a whole new experience in Dolby Atmos. I do have a Blu Ray player which supports Dolby Atmos and it'd play through my Sonos speaker set up and i guess i'd be interested to ser if the drums on This Time Of Night are clearer playing the Low Life Dolby Atmos Blu Ray disc rather than streaming on Apple Music.

The blu rays don't appear to me on Amazon UK... only the expanded 2CD editions. Really strange

If you have Apple Music - Brotherhood is now available in Dolby Atmos.

Johnny77 wrote: If you have Apple Music - Brotherhood is now available in Dolby Atmos.

Thanks but i can't find it on Apple Music. For the Dolby Atmos mixes of Movement and Low Life they're hidden away on the streamimg of the Definitive Editions but seemingly not so for Brotherhood.

Edit: Ah i've now found it on the stream for the 2024 dgital master. Ok, will give it a listen tonight

BLT sounds nice but at times it's not much more than sounds swirling or panning around. Still, i will probably go ahead and buy the physical discs as i have a feeling the Dolby Atmos will be superior on Blu Ray than on Apple Music, would that be correct? And also on Apple Music you just get the standard album tracklist, you don't get the instrumentals that Steven Wilson also did.

Ooh, State Of The Nation does benefit, sounds good. Steven Wilson has really brought out that funky bass sequencer.Beefy.Lots of other details brought out too.

As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise, Apple Music states as Dolby Atmos though technically they're not , no? Thought these 2 were 'Upscale' mixes because the original master tapes were lost? Anyway

New delivery date, 10-12/12/25. New rule on Amazon : CDs are always delayed now.

I’m not seeing any of them on Apple Music. Checked the Definitive Editions but can’t see anything labelled as Dolby Atmos. I must be missing something.

Or are they not labelled in this way?

perspexorange wrote: I’m not seeing any of them on Apple Music. Checked the Definitive Editions but can’t see anything labelled as Dolby Atmos. I must be missing something.

Or are they not labelled in this way?

You should find the Movement and Low Life ones on Apple Music in the Definitive Editions of each. Should look like this 'Dolby Atmos' stated in middle like this

Brotherhood for some reason they haven't put it in the Definitive Edition stream of that one, so look for Brotherhood 2024 Digital Master. It will look like this, 'Dolby Atmos' again can be seen in middle

But yeah, they are bloody hard to find!

Thanks Fotz.

Weirdly, I'm not seeing this.

For instance.

However, if I go into my AirPods Pro settings, whilst I'm playing songs, I do get an indicator for 'Dolby Atmos':

Very weird. Anyone any idea why?

The Brotherhood one does show up the same as yours, Fotz. Just not the Movement & Low-Life ones.

I wonder if it's because I ripped the DE sets to Apple Music when I got them. When I search for them in Apple Music (rather than my library) and play them there, it shows that my 'ripped' versions are playing. I guess it probably isn't playing my ripped version and is instead playing the 'Apple Music' variety (as I haven't downloaded the songs to my iPhone). But it just recognises these versions as the same.

I wonder if it's then copying my metadata, which (presumably) doesn't have a 'dolby atmos' indicator, and is overlaying that over the 'Apple Music' data. For me at least.

All very strange.

^ Oh i see what you mean now, perspex. Weird. And annoying. I'd hazzard a guess yes that it's something to do with the fact you ripped the Movement and Low Life Definitive Editons to Apple Music and it's messsing it up. But i'm no expert by any means on things like that. Can you unrip them and play the streaming versions? Of course that'd mean you'd need a network signal or WiFi every time you wanted to play them, would that be correct? But are the songs actually playing in Dolby Atmos but Apple Music is just not showing 'Dolby Atmos' . Don't know if that's a silly question.

Thanks Fotz.

I think they’re playing in Dolby Atmos, as the indicator is playing in my control centre. If I play a different (Non-DA) album, it states ‘stereo’.

Ordered Movement & Brotherhood from Amazon UK.

For blu-ray users (I don't have a player, working on it): is there a way to rip the instrumentals?

Mr. Disco wrote: Ordered Movement & Brotherhood from Amazon UK.

For blu-ray users (I don't have a player, working on it): is there a way to rip the instrumentals?

well, you will need a blu-ray drive for your computer: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/how-to-rip-blu-ray-discs-to-your-pc

i use : makeMKV software

they have forums..

people are already trying to rip the protected discs, because they don't work: https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=26dc6bbbf55b861a4697fe4b33c5dd4f

someone here says they updated all 3: https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40214

later || | | || ne gative 1

Got the 3 sets yesterday on bluray and spent this afternoon listening to them

Thoughts

I didn't particularly enjoy the first "side" of Brotherhood because there are a lot of backing vocals which I'm too used to be sat in the mix and they become over-bearing when they are pumping out of the rear speakers in isolation. I guess they thought it was a nice touch to do that and widen the mix but I wasn't keen. The second "side" however sounds wonderful

Low-life also sounds great and lots of bits that I never really noticed before - to the point where I need to go back to the original and check they aren't extra parts!

Movement is a bit of a revelation though. Probably most people's (mine included) least favourite NO LP - or if not least favourite, least listened to - but with the widening of the mix it really comes into its own. I think Hannett's unusual production style helps - as there is so much scope to expand the soundbase. Unlike the other two which, SM admits in the sleeve notes sounded quite cluttered when they listened to the multitracks

And speaking of the sleeve notes - some interesting snippets

Elegia was edited down for the LP from the full-length version, so they only had the multi-tracks for the full version and had to (re)create the edit. So it may be slightly different to the original LP edit

They couldn't find the original sample at the start of This Time Of Night and it wasn't in the multis, so they had to lift the first line from the original and then it stops (as in - it doesn't carry on through the drum intro) It's also mentioned that the versions of This Time Of Night, Face-Up and Subculture on the multitracks were slightly different to the final mastered edits, so there may be other differences to spot there

Oh and also - it's mentioned that the "up-scaling" of the two Brotherhood tracks was done by a combination of stem-splitting software and Stephen re-triggering the midi drums (somehow) They sound fine to my ears - no noticeable difference from the other Atmos mixes

Most likely suspect for the missing Jeffrey Bernard sample

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/cd06f8bc09bb4719948c5cadc7116e43

Yep i agree with GotBlueEyes , the backing vocals on Brotherhood side 1 especially Weirdo and AIIWIW are too upfront in Steven Wilson's Dolby mix. But i do like the drums detail on Paradise, and guitar detail on that and the other side 1 songs.

Barney's vocals on All Day Long sound absolutely incredible. Music as well. Highlight of the Atmos Mixes for me.

I've finally managed to rip the 7.1 stems and the instrumental versions FWIW

it wasn't decrypting yesterday but the discs seems to have been added today and MakeMKV is playing ball.

GotBlueEyes wrote: Most likely suspect for the missing Jeffrey Bernard sample

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/cd06f8bc09bb4719948c5cadc7116e43

I suspected this too. Have been trying to track down a copy of this to check for years.

However, I tweeted Steve about this a little while back. He said that he thought it would be from this programme too, but apparently it isn’t. I guess he found a copy of the programme somewhere (maybe when they were pulling this blu-Ray set togther). He said he’s thoroughly perplexed by it and he’s not sure where they pulled the sample from.

perspexorange wrote:

GotBlueEyes wrote: Most likely suspect for the missing Jeffrey Bernard sample

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/cd06f8bc09bb4719948c5cadc7116e43

I suspected this too. Have been trying to track down a copy of this to check for years.

However, I tweeted Steve about this a little while back. He said that he thought it would be from this programme too, but apparently it isn’t. I guess he found a copy of the programme somewhere (maybe when they were pulling this blu-Ray set togther). He said he’s thoroughly perplexed by it and he’s not sure where they pulled the sample from.

So that programme was broadcast 21st March 1985. Low Life was released 14th May 1985 ( or 13th, something around there). Not for me, Clive. Surely the album would have been a wrap by 21st March, final production and mixing surely done and mastered and vinyl pressed. Would've been waaay too late to have added any sample by that time.

Fotz wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

GotBlueEyes wrote: Most likely suspect for the missing Jeffrey Bernard sample

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/cd06f8bc09bb4719948c5cadc7116e43

I suspected this too. Have been trying to track down a copy of this to check for years.

However, I tweeted Steve about this a little while back. He said that he thought it would be from this programme too, but apparently it isn’t. I guess he found a copy of the programme somewhere (maybe when they were pulling this blu-Ray set togther). He said he’s thoroughly perplexed by it and he’s not sure where they pulled the sample from.

So that programme was broadcast 21st March 1985. Low Life was released 14th May 1985 ( or 13th, something around there). Not for me, Clive. Surely the album would have been a wrap by 21st March, final production and mixing surely done and mastered and vinyl pressed. Would've been waaay too late to have added any sample by that time.

Agreed that it would be tight. However, given the haphazard 'fly by the seat of the pants' attitude of both New Order and Factory, not completely out of the realms of possibility. After all, Steve even thought it might've been this programme and he'd have no doubt been aware of timescales.

But, even so, apparently it isn't this programme. Disappointing... Would love to know where it came from.

Wanted to update my post but couldn't, so have had to post this image separately.

GotBlueEyes wrote: I've finally managed to rip the 7.1 stems and the instrumental versions FWIW

it wasn't decrypting yesterday but the discs seems to have been added today and MakeMKV is playing ball.

I ripped the 2024 stereo and instrumental mixes (don't have a surround system). The track markers are in slightly odd places. There's around 3 secs of silence before track 1 starts on each disc, and each subsequent track starts about 1-2 seconds into the very end of the previous track. I put all tracks side by side in Sound Forge and moved the track markers into the right place (on CDs the track markers are usually about 0.2 seconds before each track's audio begins). Also normalised each entire album waveform for a peak of 0.0dB (their volume levels are very low on the Blu-ray), before splitting each track into individual files. Makes them sound really good next to other digital audio in my library.

It's amazing how close Steven Wilson got the stereo mixes to sound to their original counterparts. I'd be hard pushed to tell them apart, but you can hear slight differences in outboard effects (delays, reverb etc.).

Mr Discography wrote:

GotBlueEyes wrote: I've finally managed to rip the 7.1 stems and the instrumental versions FWIW

it wasn't decrypting yesterday but the discs seems to have been added today and MakeMKV is playing ball.

I ripped the 2024 stereo and instrumental mixes (don't have a surround system). The track markers are in slightly odd places. There's around 3 secs of silence before track 1 starts on each disc, and each subsequent track starts about 1-2 seconds into the very end of the previous track. I put all tracks side by side in Sound Forge and moved the track markers into the right place (on CDs the track markers are usually about 0.2 seconds before each track's audio begins). Also normalised each entire album waveform for a peak of 0.0dB (their volume levels are very low on the Blu-ray), before splitting each track into individual files. Makes them sound really good next to other digital audio in my library.

Yeah - I noticed that too and did similar

Movement instrumental is great, because it really gives you a feel for where they were at as band, and what they had to work with at the point where they were trying to decide on lyrics/vocalists

If anyone wants the 7.1 stems for remix purposes, then DM me. Quite often (but not alwasy) the lead vocal is totally clean on the front centre channel, and lots of the synths split out in a way that you wouldn't get with public domain stem splitting software

Mr. Disco wrote: I've pre-ordered Low-Life, 'cause it's my favourite from the lot. The instrumentals got me in, so let's see how it goes 👍

Delivered... now I need to figure out how to encode the instrumentals as FLAC/stereo, as I don't even own a 5.1 setup. Any help would be much appreciated.

Mr. Disco wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote: I've pre-ordered Low-Life, 'cause it's my favourite from the lot. The instrumentals got me in, so let's see how it goes 👍

Delivered... now I need to figure out how to encode the instrumentals as FLAC/stereo, as I don't even own a 5.1 setup. Any help would be much appreciated.

wrote the instructions here, you need a bluray drive for the computer: http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=42077#post42077

later |||||||| negative1

Thanks a lot, Sire!

If there is a stockpile/folder of all the FLACs of the instrumentals and isolated tracks, let us know!

Happy new year, everyone!

Given how expensive the Definitive Edition boxed sets have become, and that Stephen Morris and Steven Wilson have been making those new surround sound and instrumental versions of the old albums, I sincerely hope future boxed sets from 'Technique' and (hopefully) onwards will also include the surround sound Blu-ray discs, along with the usual CDs and DVDs. They can, and no doubt will be released separately of course, but it be great to have them all together in future boxes.

Mr Discography wrote: Given how expensive the Definitive Edition boxed sets have become, and that Stephen Morris and Steven Wilson have been making those new surround sound and instrumental versions of the old albums, I sincerely hope future boxed sets from 'Technique' and (hopefully) onwards will also include the surround sound Blu-ray discs, along with the usual CDs and DVDs. They can, and no doubt will be released separately of course, but it be great to have them all together in future boxes.

Agreed. I'm buying everything to make these projects financially viable for the label, but what we really need are definitive box sets that ditch the vinyl and hardcover books in favor of just music. A proper box set of Technique would include: -The album -A disc for "Fine Time" with all of its mixes/b-sides (the U.K. 12" with Barney moaning and talking has never been officially released on CD) -A disc for "Round & Round" with all of its mixes/b-sides -A disc for "Run2" with all of its mixes/b-sides plus the unreleased WB cassette versions that were posted online. -A disc for the soundtrack of "Making Out" season 1 as a roadmap for how many of the tracks began. -"Intermede Musical" parts 1- 6 from Palatine Lane and all of the completed studio mixes of "The Happy One" (these could pad out other discs). -two or three discs of demos including the eBay disc of early mixes and jams

For Republic the perfect outcome is:

-The album -A disc of initial versions -A disc of demos -A disc for "Making Out" season 2 (to map the time between albums) -A disc for "Making Out" season 3 (ditto) -A disc for "Regret" including the promo edit, instrumental version posted online, all remixes, and b-sides. The wonderful "Lucky Lou" remix seems to be unofficial but sure sounds like it was built from master tapes and deserves consideration! -A disc for "Ruined in a Day" including all remixes and b-sides -A disc for "World" including all released and unreleased remixes ("Tony Garcia Radio Edit," instrumental posted online, etc.) -A disc for "Spooky" including all released and unreleased remixes ("Night Tripper Dub," etc.)

If there's room, add the tracks from the promo interview disc! :D

Fractured wrote: Agreed. I'm buying everything to make these projects financially viable for the label, but what we really need are definitive box sets that ditch the vinyl and hardcover books in favor of just music. A proper box set of Technique would include: -The album -A disc for "Fine Time" with all of its mixes/b-sides (the U.K. 12" with Barney moaning and talking has never been officially released on CD) -A disc for "Round & Round" with all of its mixes/b-sides -A disc for "Run2" with all of its mixes/b-sides plus the unreleased WB cassette versions that were posted online. -A disc for the soundtrack of "Making Out" season 1 as a roadmap for how many of the tracks began. -"Intermede Musical" parts 1- 6 from Palatine Lane and all of the completed studio mixes of "The Happy One" (these could pad out other discs). -two or three discs of demos including the eBay disc of early mixes and jams

It's likely they would charge like £500 for something like that

Mr. Disco wrote:

Fractured wrote: Agreed. I'm buying everything to make these projects financially viable for the label, but what we really need are definitive box sets that ditch the vinyl and hardcover books in favor of just music. A proper box set of Technique would include: -The album -A disc for "Fine Time" with all of its mixes/b-sides (the U.K. 12" with Barney moaning and talking has never been officially released on CD) -A disc for "Round & Round" with all of its mixes/b-sides -A disc for "Run2" with all of its mixes/b-sides plus the unreleased WB cassette versions that were posted online. -A disc for the soundtrack of "Making Out" season 1 as a roadmap for how many of the tracks began. -"Intermede Musical" parts 1- 6 from Palatine Lane and all of the completed studio mixes of "The Happy One" (these could pad out other discs). -two or three discs of demos including the eBay disc of early mixes and jams

It's likely they would charge like £500 for something like that

They wouldn't have to. I just got the FGTH box set today. That has 8 discs, one of them a Blu Ray. I got it for about $125 on Amazon.

A proper, complete archival release that empties the vaults and fulfills Rob's Recycle idea at the same time would be a worthwhile project, and I wouldn't WANT to pay more than $200 for it, but I would.

Fractured wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Given how expensive the Definitive Edition boxed sets have become, and that Stephen Morris and Steven Wilson have been making those new surround sound and instrumental versions of the old albums, I sincerely hope future boxed sets from 'Technique' and (hopefully) onwards will also include the surround sound Blu-ray discs, along with the usual CDs and DVDs. They can, and no doubt will be released separately of course, but it be great to have them all together in future boxes.

Agreed. I'm buying everything to make these projects financially viable for the label, but what we really need are definitive box sets that ditch the vinyl and hardcover books in favor of just music. A proper box set of Technique would include: -The album -A disc for "Fine Time" with all of its mixes/b-sides (the U.K. 12" with Barney moaning and talking has never been officially released on CD) -A disc for "Round & Round" with all of its mixes/b-sides -A disc for "Run2" with all of its mixes/b-sides plus the unreleased WB cassette versions that were posted online. -A disc for the soundtrack of "Making Out" season 1 as a roadmap for how many of the tracks began. -"Intermede Musical" parts 1- 6 from Palatine Lane and all of the completed studio mixes of "The Happy One" (these could pad out other discs). -two or three discs of demos including the eBay disc of early mixes and jams

That sounds far too exhaustive for my tastes. I like the format of the boxes so far - plus I never owned their albums on vinyl, so I like having the reproduced LPs, along with the remastered CD, and a single disc of demos/outtakes/rarities, plus the DVD(s). Just hoping they also include the surround Blu-ray from now on.

I hope that they also continue to digitally release all the 12" inches (although that seems to have stalled for some unknown reason). Then focus on companion digital releases for each single mopping up vinyl-only edits, dubs and remixes. That way I can dip in and download the tracks I don't already have digitally without needed to buy them all again.

The only track I would like to hear in surround sound is "Everything's Gone Green". Ideally just a crisp, full stereo mix of the track with Bernard's whoop (around 3m47s) coming out of one of the rear speakers at distressing volume.

Technically the N.O. mix of "Regret" was the b-side, but I see your point. Much of the "Making Out" content was credited to New Order (See https://youtu.be/M-2vAyvMSvA?si=NDj74LAXdRayXzB4&t=2785 ) ... I think Season 3 was where it went to just a Steve and Gillian credit? I still consider that material to be an important glimpse into the band's creative process during a pivotal moment of artistic growth.

I recently picked up a very inexpensive 40-CD Duke Ellington box set, and not being too familiar with the history of jazz, dove into it as a sort of history lesson. It's been an interesting experience. I'd love for the band's complete studio recordings (including promo-only and commercially released tracks, demos, and outtakes) to be available with the same thoroughness so all of us can hear them. Maybe it's a minority opinion, and such a project would only be financially feasible as a digital or made-to-order CD-R release, but for at least some fans, it'd be heaven!

Are these "Instrumental Mixes" a new revelation of God? Basslines begin to sing lightly, wonderful synth parts and percussions etc that were previously hidden by the vocal range. (sorry Barney!) Especially Movement. It's a perspective-altering experience like Cargo Demos.

Ultravox has locked into a great pattern of releasing 2-CD sets of new Wilson mixes plus a disc of instrumental versions for RSD. New Order should do the same! Make the instrumentals more easily enjoyed by all.