If Substance was an *official* studio album, where would it rank on your best of list?

I'm always been bothered when I see polls asking what my favorite NO album is, then looking and not seeing Substance on there. When i first got into NO, Substance was the very first CD I purchased from them being, and being ignorant to the fact, I mistook it for an official album, not a compilation. Nowadays, I still hate thinking of it as a comp, and think of it as a brilliantly put together album.

After all, it does contain several tracks that aren't available on on the official albums, and then some of the albums tracks aren't even the same. But technical is technical, I guess.

That being said, if Substance had came out as an official NO album, where the songs were all recorded there first, where would it rank on your favorite NO album list? It'd definitely be No.1 in my book without question. All the songs flow seemlessly together and I don't think there is any other selection of NO songs packaged together better than Substance(albums, compilations or otherwise).

Probably number one too. Depending on the day. Sometimes it'd be Low Life.

If Substance had been released as an album proper it would be the best rock album ever, don't you reckon?

i cannot hear EGG without anticipatiing the opening of Temptation right after. Probably played Substance a million times but not once (disc one) in the last 2 years. Probably more to do with having made my own PERFECT set of NewOrder compilations than any problem with Substance (although the versions of SubCultrue and BLT are not the best versions and State of the Nation and Shellshock are borderline).

cannot see this as anything other than a compilation due to the change in sound from Ceremony to True Faith. Not "album" like at all. The other albums have a coherent sound.

The Best NEWORDER compilation without a doubt.

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid The Best NEWORDER compilation without a doubt.

What, even better than Retro ??

Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> The Best NEWORDER compilation without a doubt.

What, even better than Retro ??

Surely you don't think Retro's any good Neil? A pile of shite and no mistake!

As I've said before, it would really have been good if it had Touched instead of SOTN.

i hate to think of it but it would be their greatest Record but imagine how long it wouldve taken them to make that album from scratch!!!!, plus the delays of the release, waiting for the artwork, it probably wouldnt have been released till '91!!!!!

Originally posted by Johnny > Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built > Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid> The Best NEWORDER compilation without a doubt.

What, even better than Retro ??

Surely you don't think Retro's any good Neil? A pile of shite and no mistake!

err, thats Niel to you

and how can it be a pile of shite when it contains a collection of the works by NO

Substance is just one of these CDs where the quality just keeps on coming - you couldn't get a better singles compilation, and having the B-sides available as well was a winner. I like.

Trouble is though, by being a singles compilation, it understandably focuses more on the band's pop side and doesn't have the necessary balance of their darker side. NO are made up of both aspects and a truly great NO album needs to have both. It always pissed me off somewhat in the 80's that people only got to see one side of the band and therefore thought of them as some sort of Erasure/Pet Shop Boys shitty electro-dance band.

Originally posted by bill poster Trouble is though, by being a singles compilation, it understandably focuses more on the band's pop side and doesn't have the necessary balance of their darker side. NO are made up of both aspects and a truly great NO album needs to have both. It always pissed me off somewhat in the 80's that people only got to see one side of the band and therefore thought of them as some sort of Erasure/Pet Shop Boys shitty electro-dance band.

I disagree, I think that Substance was classic because it showcased their pop side (A-side) along with the darker side (Mesh..umm, I mean Cries and Whispers, Hurt and Murder) on disc 2. Now compair it to the US version of Best of. I really don't like it because it left out all of the classic B-sides from the 88-93 period.

Hmm..

i'd say the second tape/disc whatever, starts off VERY darkly indeed,

Its essentially a singles and B-sides compilation remember its not Movement or PCL !

'Substance' is my all time favourite album ever. I have over 700 CDs, and 'Substance' has always topped the lot. I think it's pretentious thinking in terms of an album being "studio" or a "compilation". It's the music on there that counts. Do I like all the songs? Yes. Do I like them more than songs on any other album I own? Yes. 'Nuff said.

'Substance' could never have been a studio album, as New Order wouldn't have recorded something as rough sounding as 'Everything's Gone Green' at the same time as 'True Faith'. When I first heard it, I knew 'True faith', 'Blue Monday' and 'Touched By The Hand Of God'. It introduced me to the whole sound of New Order, and has accompanied many good times and holidays in the years since (I only ever play it when away from home or travelling). that's why I like it.

It's physically been released as an album, so it's my favourite. Besides which, 'Republic' took years to record, and was mostly produced by Stephen Hague - shouldn't that not count as a "studio" album under thos rules??

Andy http://www.TrustNoOne.org.uk

'I think it's pretentious thinking in terms of an album being "studio" or a "compilation".'

How is it pretentious ? Surely producing an album is creating a cohesive work of art whereas creating a compilation is more of an archival activity, just as valuable but inherently different ? To my mind, the best albums are ones that create their own mood and which you need to listen to whole album in order to get the full effect. It's very hard to achieve that with a compilation.

Originally posted by bill poster 'I think it's pretentious thinking in terms of an album being "studio" or a "compilation".'How is it pretentious ? Surely producing an album is creating a cohesive work of art whereas creating a compilation is more of an archival activity, just as valuable but inherently different ? To my mind, the best albums are ones that create their own mood and which you need to listen to whole album in order to get the full effect. It's very hard to achieve that with a compilation.

Aye, and that's why 'The Best Of New Order' doesn't work, but 'International' does a little bit more, and 'Substance' does an awful lot - the mood it creates is one of steady progress and development due to its chronological track listing, and yet each track is still a complete, fantastic recording in its own right.

It creates a retrospective mood, and one that I love more than on any other album, regardless of when or how the music was recorded.

Andy.

Substance is the greatest, most inspiring little round fing wot's ever been made, orright? If I'm allowed to take one item with me into the next world, it would be Substance (assuming, of course, that they have CD players in the afterlife).

Im with Jarvo on this one, Retro wins hands down on ANY compilation that has ever been released by the Order, and like it or not Substance is a compilation.

Its hardly fair tho i mean c'mon Retro has got 15years worth more material to source from and is a chronicle of their history, not a cd of all their singles that tony could play in his car

Originally posted by David Rowlands Substance is the greatest, most inspiring little round fing wot's ever been made, orright?If I'm allowed to take one item with me into the next world, it would be Substance (assuming, of course, that they have CD players in the afterlife).

Well, yes, you're exactly right.

SECOND PROBABLY JUST BEHIND PERMANENT

substance has had a permanent place next to my stereo since it first came out. even when i was listening to, ahem, pe*rl j*m it was still there...like linus' blanket, all warm and cozy like.

Originally posted by ShugZV©
> Originally posted by Al Jarvis By everyone's reasoning, surely Retro walks all over Substance for all the afore-mentioned reasons. You've got all the hilites from Substance - including the likes of Ceremony and Lonesome Tonight and Everything's Gone Green. You've also got Perfect Kiss and Temptation (neck and neck in the current 'best of' poll) in not one, but THREE, different formats each. Then on top of that chuck in the likes of Age of Consent and Sunrise then surely this simply has to be New Order's best album ever? or have I missed something?Anyways, these are both compiliations so the thread is irrelevant.

There's always bloody 1 Anyone noticed that Love Vigilanties is neither on Substance or Retro

Nor International.

Originally posted by DoN ...like it or not Substance is a compilation.

A compilation it is - but it's still my all time favourite album. Period.

Andy.