How would you rate Brotherhood (1986)?

I currently do not have this album but I was wondering for those who do--what do you think of this album 1-10 and why.

thanks

Fave album,

nuff said (i've lost count of the amount of threads i've praised it on!!!)

i'd give it a seven. i don't listen to Tracks 2-5 too much, but "Paradise" is brilliant, so is "BLT".

4: because of the horrid sound quality, especially on the vocals.

8 because this was class at a great time in my life so happy memories of this album despite the poor sounding quality!

Damn, not sure what you guys mean by poor sound quality. It sounds fookin great on my Sony at home. This album has become my fav NO album only behind Get Ready. Someone posted earlier they dont listen to tracks 2-5....

I implore you, please go back and listen to them. The only song I dont care too much for, is no. 7. (forgive me, i dont know song names from any of my cds, just track numbers.) they could have only put the first 6 songs on a record and it would still be one of my all time favs. The ending guitar duel between Barney and Hooky on Broken Promise gets the stereo cranked up to 11 every time. Almost makes me cry A beautiful album. All the broken-hearted lyrics make me sometimes think this was Barneys "Disintegration" (forgive the Cure comparison) I LOVE THIS RECORD!!!

So who besides me gave it a 4?

I gave it 7 because it had the misfortune of following Low-life. It's pretty good overall.

No way that record has poor sound quality. It was recorded in state of the art studios by top notch engineers. You don't have to subjectively like the way it sounds or was mixed, I'm not saying it is a masterpiece of the art of recording, but to call it poor is wrong. It has deep bass, thumping bass drum, smooth highs for the most part (although some of the heavily layered samples are kind of harsh to me in Angel Dust and All Day Long, but that's the way those samplers sound), and a very coherent stereo image and mix. If you want to hear a poorly recorded record, try any of the early Stereolab stuff on Too Pure. I like that music, or at least some of it, but the engineer that worked on that stuff should be shot and then fired.

By the way I gave it a 4. Not enough guitar for my taste, but at least they were trying to write real songs instead of disco 12" club hits where the lyrics were an afterthought. I think they achieved that goal reasonably well, and it goes to show that they should let Steve have more of a hand in the lyrics. I rate the lyrics to be of similar quality to Get Ready, not great but not bad either. On the other hand I don't care for the singles, you couldn't pay me to listen to Shellshock or State of the Nation. I have it on LP, and the fake skip and flying needle at the end is great, it always brings a smile.

7. Not as good as Low-Life (9) or Technique (10), but pretty consistent. Lacks the variety on the other two, in my opinion.

7 for me too - LL is a 9, TN is a 10, 1981 is a 10, PC&L is a 9.5

I gave it an 8.. I would give it a ten, but I agree with the others in saying that the sound quality is a bit too hollow sounding. However, it's still my favorite NO album. I can't really say why - my favorite NO songs are on PC&L and Technique, but this album just does it for me as a whole. Weirdo is probably up there in my top 5, and the LWTUA riff at the end of Way of Life makes me gush.,.

This is the worst NO album ever, I have to say. :barf:

However, the side B (I have it in vinyl also) is so much superior to Side A, I guess the only tune "hearable" is AIIWIW...

Too pop, too comercial. And my UK copy also has "State of the Nation" as an extra track. As if it would improve something...

It earns a 4.

Originally posted by teleharmonium No way that record has poor sound quality. It was recorded in state of the art studios by top notch engineers. You don't have to subjectively like the way it sounds or was mixed, I'm not saying it is a masterpiece of the art of recording, but to call it poor is wrong. It has deep bass, thumping bass drum, smooth highs for the most part (although some of the heavily layered samples are kind of harsh to me in Angel Dust and All Day Long, but that's the way those samplers sound), and a very coherent stereo image and mix. If you want to hear a poorly recorded record, try any of the early Stereolab stuff on Too Pure. I like that music, or at least some of it, but the engineer that worked on that stuff should be shot and then fired.

I assumed most people would have seen my recent thread: "Brotherhood; Is it ruined by smothered vocals?" As I explained there, the problem for me is the way the vocals are mixed. They seem to be buried under anything and everything else. That is what I meant by horrid sound quality.

7. Not brilliant, but still good particularly when 'Weirdo' and 'Broken Promise' are turned up very loud

Originally posted by Alexandre Travassos This is the worst NO album ever, I have to say. :barf:.

You've never listened too repugnent then

......or Mudment ??

I gave it a 7 too. Angel Dust and Paradise are my favourites.

It's not my favourite but if you don't like Brotherhood then, well, you don't like New Order. Those saying it has horrid sound/mixing quality or that it's their worst effort are just exaggerating to make their point.

Low-Life was a tough act to follow. Its' songs expanded New Orders' sound with remarkable success. While not as groundbreaking, Brotherhood also showed new facets to the band. They'd never done anything as acoustic as As it is When it Was (okay, bad example, that's actually an outtake from Low-Life). Bizarre Love Triangle has been rightfully described as a symphony you can dance to. All Day Long, to me, is just as monumental as The Perfect Kiss in it's mixture of instruments, composition and subject matter.

Other tracks may not push boundaries but are enjoyable just the same. Paradise is a powerful love song with an excellent performance from Hooky. Weirdo and Way of Life reclaim the jaunty guitar pop sound that bands like The Cure were taking for their own. Every Little Counts may be a pastiche but it always makes me smile. I love the cello sounds too.

That leaves my two tracks that I don't feel were quite as successful as the others. Funny, some people count Broken Promise and Angel Dust among their favourites. I guess one persons opinion is just that. The fact that New Orders' fans have such varying tastes and opinions is just a testimony to the wide variety of people their music has affected.

...and I voted it an 8

A nice big 9 for me - equal favourites with Low-life and Technique, but significantly different to both. Angel Dust is the only track I really skip on this one, I really like Paradise, Way of Life and BLT, which sounds best on the album as opposed to the single version. I also really like the contrast of guitarry stuff with sequenced stuff - both equally important sides of the band IMHO. CTB

Gave it a 9; it's always been my favorite NO album, and I do mean vinyl, which is why SOTN doesn't enter into this query for me at all.

Just a lot of good songs that I find myself humming or singing a fair amount of the time, and when I play the album, I never skip a track, which I usually do with the others.

I'd give it an 8, becase I've grown to really appreciate it, although I've never gone through a "phase" with it like I did with LowLife, Technique or Republic. "Paradise", "BLT" and "Angel Dust" are my faves. Tracks 2-5, individually they don't hit me as good songs, but when listened to as a whole (say driving during the summer), they really sound amazing.

If I was looking for a CD to listen to, I'd pick this instead of Get Ready, but might opt for LowLife or Technique instead, depends on my mood.

As of 32 votes the average SCORE is a 7.7 out of 10. Which is pretty solid.

This the best album newOrder have ever made, check it out.

Originally posted by Martin Davies This the best album newOrder have ever made, check it out.

I think it's a fantastic album! Much of the music from Brotherhood should have been more accessible to "traditional rock fans" as I feel they would have gotten into them (at least into this album). BLT is on this album. So is Every Little Counts, Paradise, As It Is When It Was, Weirdo. Those are GREAT songs. The drummer in my band and I would like to cover Broken Promise, because it's just a rockin' song. :)

The Brotherhood tracks on Retro seem quite improved in sound quality.

Originally posted by Andy T It's not my favourite but if you don't like Brotherhood then, well, you don't like New Order.

Bit of a generalisation there ?

I don't like Brotherhood as much as most of the other albums simply because I was disappointed with the final recorded versions of many of the songs, having seen them evolve on a live stage. Having said that, they did do BLT justice. For me, there are too many weak songs on there(Way of Life, Weirdo, All Day Long, Angel Dust, Broken Promise(recorded version anyway), Every Little Counts, Paradise. That leaves only As It Is and BLT that I like, and that ain't enough to give it any more than a 5 out of ten.

Now, if you'd care to tell me I don't like New Order.....

Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...

Originally posted by M. Domingo Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought of - besides As It Is, none of the Brotherhood songs had been played live outside the UK before its release, whereas we had gigs late 85, early 86 and mid 86 just before the US tour that coincided with the release of Brotherhood.

I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten.

Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

Originally posted by Budvar Huber I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten.

Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Originally posted by DoN. > Originally posted by Budvar Huber> I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten. > > Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Cheesy rhyming lyrics, mainly. Tune wise it's actually quite good.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by DoN.> > > > Originally posted by Budvar Huber> > I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten. > > > > Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )>

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Cheesy rhyming lyrics, mainly. Tune wise it's actually quite good.

Blimey! i've never heard lyrics that rhyme and are cheesy in a neworder song before!!! so your point being?!! ;)

It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

Originally posted by DoN. > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

I'm not the best person to talk to about Electronic, as their tracks that I like add up to about ten minutes worth of tape !

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by DoN.> > > > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> > It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.>

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

I'm not the best person to talk to about Electronic, as their tracks that I like add up to about ten minutes worth of tape !

Oh well thats killed that one on the head then!!

'brotherhood' rules. plain and simple. there's so much going on in this album, i don't know where to start. And all this talk about poor sound quality and bad songs...all rubbish. Go check yourselves people! I suggest that you sit or lay down on something comfortable, turn off the lights and crank it f'ing up. maybe then you will realize its brilliance. this album rocks, swoons and touches me all at once.

p.s. who said that there is not enough guitar on this album?... what are you deaf!?!

p.p.s. a 10 of course.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> > > > Originally posted by M. Domingo> > Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...>

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought of - besides As It Is, none of the Brotherhood songs had been played live outside the UK before its release, whereas we had gigs late 85, early 86 and mid 86 just before the US tour that coincided with the release of Brotherhood.

BTW, I think Weirdo was played abroad before Brotherhood's release, as well as As It Is, no?

Three times in the US August 85 and once in Orleans, France 85, but that was the sum total of its outings before 86, so it had hardly become a staple element of the set. People hearing it on those occasions were probably hearing most of the Low-Life stuff for the first time as well, so it was just another new song.

it does indeed 'rule'

often i am swayed when listning to Technique or LowLife to think that i prefer them but when listening to Brotherhood im blown away and it all comes flooding back on what a superlative album it actually is.

Yes it has got a dampened sound (which has been discussed to death on here) to it but its the music what matters at the end of the day :)

I gave it an 8 -- I think it rough around the edges and thoroughly enjoyable. Broken Promise, Paradise, and All Day Long stand out as brilliant album tracks for me. The guitars were just great on this one.

Originally posted by Green Gave it a 9; it's always been my favorite NO album, and I do mean vinyl, which is why SOTN doesn't enter into this query for me at all. Just a lot of good songs that I find myself humming or singing a fair amount of the time, and when I play the album, I never skip a track, which I usually do with the others.

Thanks, I could have written that. I gave it a 9 as well, it's my favourite NO album; and that's the vinyl version (9 songs). I also really like the split between the 'guitar' side and the 'electronic' side. I remember I found that really cool at the time.

Gave it 8. I haven't listened to it in ages, but have some very happy memories. It coincided with a certain time in my life, and pretty much soundtracked that time for me.

Originally posted by mh Gave it 8. I haven't listened to it in ages, but have some very happy memories. It coincided with a certain time in my life, and pretty much soundtracked that time for me.

i know where your coming from

It is also my least 'skipped' album

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by DoN.> > > It is also my least 'skipped' album

Agreed. You just start at track 6 then switch it straight off afterwards! No skipping involved!

Nah your confusing it with LowLife Al!!!

Very good album let down by a couple of very poor (by New Order standard) songs;State of The Nation and Broken Promise and the lack of a 'classic' New Order tune.

Whilst PC&L was inconsistent it did contain stone-cold classics like KW1 and Leave Me Alone and for me Brotherhood just doesn't have a song in that calibre.

Took a good while for it to grow on me it has to be said but Paradise, All Day Long, BLT and Every Second Counts are all favourites.

Suffers a bit against Lowlife as it's less rocky and verges more towards pop but still an good album all round.

Originally posted by zico Very good album let down by a couple of very poor (by New Order standard) songs;State of The Nation and Broken Promise and the lack of a 'classic' New Order tune.Whilst PC&L was inconsistent it did contain stone-cold classics like KW1 and Leave Me Alone and for me Brotherhood just doesn't have a song in that calibre.Took a good while for it to grow on me it has to be said but Paradise, All Day Long, BLT and Every Second Counts are all favourites.Suffers a bit against Lowlife as it's less rocky and verges more towards pop but still an good album all round.

I beg to differ....

Bizzare Love Triangle is truly CLASSIC NewOrder imho :D

What is there not to love about this album? The very fact that it's split into a guitar side and an electronic side is genius. The last two minutes of "Every Little Counts" are just.. well, beautiful really. What's wrong with simple rhymes anyway? Ever heard Oasis? Even the packaging was gorgeous (ahhh, the old large white Factory cassette boxes...sigh).

The only fault with it now is that Factory bunged "State Of The Nation" as a "bonus" track (cheers, thanks) on the CD only and thus the effect of the needle being nudged at the end of "Every Little Counts" now is ruined when that shitty song follows it.

i gave it a 7. back in 1990/91 i went through a period where it was my favourite NO record, but now i don't think that it's aged as well as PC&L or low-life. it does have some fantastic songs on it, though (especially paradise, BLT and every little counts).

Listened to this late last night when i got in and was so pissed that i couldnt be bothered to stop the CD on SOTN

anyway, people talk about ELC and its ending being a great way to end an album lah blah... well, SOTN has quite a dramatic ending itself which i had totally forgotten about - go on have a listen its not all bad ya know ;)

SOTN isn't that bad ! There's quite a few on here slagging it off left right and centre, and while it will never get onto any compilation I make, and it has crap lyrics, it's not that bad.

I'm happily surprised to see how well this album is rated, considering how it seems so often underrated.

Well, for me, it hasn't changed, it's still my fave NO album, so...

Here comes the 10.

I'm surprised no one nevers seems to mention "Way Of Life" which is one of my favorite songs though...

"Low Life" is my top N.O. album but "Brotherhood" ties with "Power Corruption & Lies" as my second favourite purely cos of the guitars all over the first half of this record.... "BLT" is the obvious high point on Fact 150, whilst "YSF" is the crowning glory of Fact 75 (notice how both tracks kick off side two?)

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes SOTN isn't that bad ! There's quite a few on here slagging it off left right and centre, and while it will never get onto any compilation I make, and it has crap lyrics, it's not that bad.

Oh yes it is

(well, it is pantomine season after all :) )

Brotherhood was my first intro to the group, took a while but I grew to love it, particularly Weirdo with its jangly guitars, and Way of Life with it's bass feedback intro, I think I like the guitar half better. The electronic half is pretty ordinary.

I Love Brotherhood. The layered vocals. The 'Guitar' side vs the 'keyboard' side. Love it, love it, love it.

Originally posted by Andy T Those saying it has horrid sound/mixing quality or that it's their worst effort are just exaggerating to make their point.

Many examples of this in the thread.

Puff Puff pass

After 61 votes the final VOTE RANKING of Brotherhood (1986) is 7.66 out of 10.

Pretty solid album. Also the 1 ranking probably lessened the ranking as well--if you exclude that vote the album ranking as of 60 votes is a solid 7.77 out of 10.

Overall Brotherhood is pretty good I guess (even though I don't own the album and have not listened to all the songs on it yet :)--though iam trying to with Musicmatch :).

I'll give it a 7 as I think overall it's a mediocre record. The only songs I enjoy are AIIWIW & BLT. Can't remember the last time I played it. For me this was a low point in the band's career coinciding with a few poor single releases.