How would you rate Brotherhood (1986)?

I think it's a fantastic album! Much of the music from Brotherhood should have been more accessible to "traditional rock fans" as I feel they would have gotten into them (at least into this album). BLT is on this album. So is Every Little Counts, Paradise, As It Is When It Was, Weirdo. Those are GREAT songs. The drummer in my band and I would like to cover Broken Promise, because it's just a rockin' song. :)

The Brotherhood tracks on Retro seem quite improved in sound quality.

Originally posted by Andy T It's not my favourite but if you don't like Brotherhood then, well, you don't like New Order.

Bit of a generalisation there ?

I don't like Brotherhood as much as most of the other albums simply because I was disappointed with the final recorded versions of many of the songs, having seen them evolve on a live stage. Having said that, they did do BLT justice. For me, there are too many weak songs on there(Way of Life, Weirdo, All Day Long, Angel Dust, Broken Promise(recorded version anyway), Every Little Counts, Paradise. That leaves only As It Is and BLT that I like, and that ain't enough to give it any more than a 5 out of ten.

Now, if you'd care to tell me I don't like New Order.....

Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...

Originally posted by M. Domingo Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought of - besides As It Is, none of the Brotherhood songs had been played live outside the UK before its release, whereas we had gigs late 85, early 86 and mid 86 just before the US tour that coincided with the release of Brotherhood.

I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten.

Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

Originally posted by Budvar Huber I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten.

Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Originally posted by DoN. > Originally posted by Budvar Huber> I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten. > > Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Cheesy rhyming lyrics, mainly. Tune wise it's actually quite good.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by DoN.> > > > Originally posted by Budvar Huber> > I have given it an 8 but only because I am going through a PC&L phase. Ask me again in a week and it could be a perfect ten. > > > > Anyway, with so many complaints I am thinking of starting my own webpage just to adore New Order, no complaints allwed. We would only gloss over the Order "all day long". Don, are you game? (Only kidding ;) )>

And just EXACTLY is wrong with All Day Long?!?! ;)

Cheesy rhyming lyrics, mainly. Tune wise it's actually quite good.

Blimey! i've never heard lyrics that rhyme and are cheesy in a neworder song before!!! so your point being?!! ;)

It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

Originally posted by DoN. > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

I'm not the best person to talk to about Electronic, as their tracks that I like add up to about ten minutes worth of tape !

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by DoN.> > > > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> > It just grates with me. What is a sensitive subject is rendered crass by Barney's rhyming.>

It was quite a touchy subject i quite agree and not entirely suited to NO's sound.

But didnt he do something similar on Electronics debut album, 'rapping' about ghetto's and drop outs, thieves and thugs?

eg:

"I'd like to read i'd like to right, but where i live i learn to fight"

Yet its hard to find someone with a bad word to say about their first album!!!

I'm not the best person to talk to about Electronic, as their tracks that I like add up to about ten minutes worth of tape !

Oh well thats killed that one on the head then!!

'brotherhood' rules. plain and simple. there's so much going on in this album, i don't know where to start. And all this talk about poor sound quality and bad songs...all rubbish. Go check yourselves people! I suggest that you sit or lay down on something comfortable, turn off the lights and crank it f'ing up. maybe then you will realize its brilliance. this album rocks, swoons and touches me all at once.

p.s. who said that there is not enough guitar on this album?... what are you deaf!?!

p.p.s. a 10 of course.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes> > > > Originally posted by M. Domingo> > Benny, I could definitely see where you are coming from. But seeing as you are fortunate to be in the UK where I am sure NO tried out a lot of their songs live prior to official release, you have a unique perspective. Myself, I can only go to the albums, but I'm sure if I was in your shoes I would probably feel the same way...>

That's actually a good point that I hadn't thought of - besides As It Is, none of the Brotherhood songs had been played live outside the UK before its release, whereas we had gigs late 85, early 86 and mid 86 just before the US tour that coincided with the release of Brotherhood.

BTW, I think Weirdo was played abroad before Brotherhood's release, as well as As It Is, no?

Three times in the US August 85 and once in Orleans, France 85, but that was the sum total of its outings before 86, so it had hardly become a staple element of the set. People hearing it on those occasions were probably hearing most of the Low-Life stuff for the first time as well, so it was just another new song.

it does indeed 'rule'

often i am swayed when listning to Technique or LowLife to think that i prefer them but when listening to Brotherhood im blown away and it all comes flooding back on what a superlative album it actually is.

Yes it has got a dampened sound (which has been discussed to death on here) to it but its the music what matters at the end of the day :)

I gave it an 8 -- I think it rough around the edges and thoroughly enjoyable. Broken Promise, Paradise, and All Day Long stand out as brilliant album tracks for me. The guitars were just great on this one.

Originally posted by Green Gave it a 9; it's always been my favorite NO album, and I do mean vinyl, which is why SOTN doesn't enter into this query for me at all. Just a lot of good songs that I find myself humming or singing a fair amount of the time, and when I play the album, I never skip a track, which I usually do with the others.

Thanks, I could have written that. I gave it a 9 as well, it's my favourite NO album; and that's the vinyl version (9 songs). I also really like the split between the 'guitar' side and the 'electronic' side. I remember I found that really cool at the time.

Gave it 8. I haven't listened to it in ages, but have some very happy memories. It coincided with a certain time in my life, and pretty much soundtracked that time for me.

Originally posted by mh Gave it 8. I haven't listened to it in ages, but have some very happy memories. It coincided with a certain time in my life, and pretty much soundtracked that time for me.

i know where your coming from

It is also my least 'skipped' album

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by DoN.> > > It is also my least 'skipped' album

Agreed. You just start at track 6 then switch it straight off afterwards! No skipping involved!

Nah your confusing it with LowLife Al!!!

Very good album let down by a couple of very poor (by New Order standard) songs;State of The Nation and Broken Promise and the lack of a 'classic' New Order tune.

Whilst PC&L was inconsistent it did contain stone-cold classics like KW1 and Leave Me Alone and for me Brotherhood just doesn't have a song in that calibre.

Took a good while for it to grow on me it has to be said but Paradise, All Day Long, BLT and Every Second Counts are all favourites.

Suffers a bit against Lowlife as it's less rocky and verges more towards pop but still an good album all round.

Originally posted by zico Very good album let down by a couple of very poor (by New Order standard) songs;State of The Nation and Broken Promise and the lack of a 'classic' New Order tune.Whilst PC&L was inconsistent it did contain stone-cold classics like KW1 and Leave Me Alone and for me Brotherhood just doesn't have a song in that calibre.Took a good while for it to grow on me it has to be said but Paradise, All Day Long, BLT and Every Second Counts are all favourites.Suffers a bit against Lowlife as it's less rocky and verges more towards pop but still an good album all round.

I beg to differ....

Bizzare Love Triangle is truly CLASSIC NewOrder imho :D

What is there not to love about this album? The very fact that it's split into a guitar side and an electronic side is genius. The last two minutes of "Every Little Counts" are just.. well, beautiful really. What's wrong with simple rhymes anyway? Ever heard Oasis? Even the packaging was gorgeous (ahhh, the old large white Factory cassette boxes...sigh).

The only fault with it now is that Factory bunged "State Of The Nation" as a "bonus" track (cheers, thanks) on the CD only and thus the effect of the needle being nudged at the end of "Every Little Counts" now is ruined when that shitty song follows it.

i gave it a 7. back in 1990/91 i went through a period where it was my favourite NO record, but now i don't think that it's aged as well as PC&L or low-life. it does have some fantastic songs on it, though (especially paradise, BLT and every little counts).

Listened to this late last night when i got in and was so pissed that i couldnt be bothered to stop the CD on SOTN

anyway, people talk about ELC and its ending being a great way to end an album lah blah... well, SOTN has quite a dramatic ending itself which i had totally forgotten about - go on have a listen its not all bad ya know ;)

SOTN isn't that bad ! There's quite a few on here slagging it off left right and centre, and while it will never get onto any compilation I make, and it has crap lyrics, it's not that bad.

I'm happily surprised to see how well this album is rated, considering how it seems so often underrated.

Well, for me, it hasn't changed, it's still my fave NO album, so...

Here comes the 10.