I bent the CD at a right angle and tried to play it. I got this amazing noise reminiscent of Metal machine music or Kraftwerk played at the wrong speed. Great track, but unfortunately the CD is now broken...
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How dissapointing is Retro ?
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Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by ken colquhoun> Most reviews which I've read support my opinion that it was a missed opportunity. I don't believe casual fans - the ones who just like Regret, Crystal and BM when it comes on the radio or in clubs - would fork out £30 or $50 or more for this box set, so it should have been for REAL FANS. The best example I can think of was Simple Minds 4 x 5cd "Themes" sets of all of their singles released on Virgin Records up until 1990 or so. I think they cost £20 - £25 each at the time and you could buy each one seperately, so if there was a particular period you didn't like you didn't have to buy it.
Which reviews are you refering to? NME was lukewarm I'm told (but I gave up paying attention to NME around 1984) Uncut liked it.
Putting all the singles on cds was the original idea, was it not? But it was decided it would end up hidously expensive. In any case there's actually not an awful lot of extra material you'd get doing it that way. You'd just be paying for even more of the stuff you already had.
I dunno, I don't think its worth getting too worked up about either way, its just pop music (heresy!).
I also gave up on NME some time ago and wouldn't use it now to wipe my arse. I was referring to articles in Q especially, and the Daily Record 192 section and Channel 4 teletext, all of whom came to the same conclusion more or less as me. I think the amount of classic or unavailable or hard to find tracks left off for easy to find versions of other tracks, some of which in my opinion ( and it is only my opinion ) aren't anywhere near as good as Temptation 7" or Ceremony 7".
Does any one prefer the Remix CD? wouldn't sessions such as Western Works demos 1980 or the BBC Rock around the Clock session from 1984 represent a better selection and value for money.
The reason why I am angry about this is.
Its £30 ($50?) for 2cd's full of stuff easily available elsewhere. A set of remixes, which is patchy at best, and a live CD which the band or the label forced Bobby Gillespie to choose later tracks (Gillespie had selected almost exclusively early tracks on his pick).
The only CD to get quite excited about is Disc 5 and that was only made available as an afterthought to the initial indifferent reaction to the tracklist details revealed in October/November.
Its a shoddy half arsed we dont give a fuck, just send us your money package. How can a disc allegedly compiled by a "FAN" not include Age of Consent or Thieves Like Us or The Perfect Kiss (full length version). After reading others comments it appears that these three tracks are very popular - so why if NO couldn't be arsed to compile the box themselves why not use this polls via this or other sites.
Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.
The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..
Cheers
Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.
The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..
Cheers
..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about. 
Originally posted by Ricardo Patrick took the words out my mouth: "it could have been better, but overall it's not a disappointment". I could do it better, anyone of us could do, but it's not that bad once you actually get the boxset and listen to it.
I love the boxset, I think the FAN is an great assortment of NO tracks that the true fans love. I dislike remixes, for the most part, but the Club disk is really good and may change my perception of remixes. I think the Live disk is a great testiment to a lot of tracks that would typically get missed... I mean including Elegia? Wow, that was a shock... not a Shellshock mind you, but a shock just the same. The 5th disk is awesome too. I guess the only weak disk, or overly repetative disk to other collections is disk 1. Not bad though, 1 so-so disk out of 5. I say "we love it, we love it!"
I enjoy retro quite a bit. Has been playing most of the time. The bonus disc is great, and so is the live disc. I was not expecting much from the remix disc, but that was a pleasent surprise
Santa visited me on Friday 20/12 and brought me Retro (5 disc version). I'm pleased as punch to have gotten the ltd. edition version. Mind you I had to order it from HMV UK to be sure of getting it. What's more I got it cheaper than what it will be available in NZ I think.
Relax guys - it's not like New Order release a new CD every week. Just means there will be more stuff for another CD later. So what we do care? We are New Order fans aren't we? Overall I think it's great.
The only thing I dislike is the fan disc. I'm not saying that I dislike the songs, but to me it seems like a really bad mix of songs that all have the same mood to them. One thing that's great about New Order albums is the shift in styles and moods. PC+L and Low-Life are the best examples of this. They go from happy to sad, to upset then silly. The Fan disc has nothing but their moodier stuff, and it gets sort of dull.
Also, the Pop disc would have worked as the ultimate 'best of' compilation, but they had to ruin it by slapping on Slow Jam and Everyone Everywhere at the end.
Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.> > The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..> > Cheers
..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about.
As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.
You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment.
CTB
You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment. CTB
They don't? :dotdotdot:
I see.. that's why Depeche Mode fans are much more happy and satisfied 
i don't think they had to fill it up with rare demos if they did not want to... but if you are to believe the interviews of Barney, he doesn't EVEN REMEMBER what and when they actually released, what stuff actually made it onto vinyl back in the 80s... so if he doesn't give a fuck, what is the big deal? you almost get the idea that Barney doesn't even think the band was important until he became such a "big pop star" with Electronic, and that "great" number one smash hit about football.
my beef is why was the Retro 4 disc set and International "Best-of" so poorly planned, and then half -filled bonus discs added hastily at the last minute (like, c'mon!, somebody just happened to notice that there would be little motivation for sales). its all kinda... "why the fuck bother...?"
they could have easily covered more "classic" period New Order, got different versions covered between the 5 Discs, and made it a more comprehensive, quality monument to the band... then on the bonus discs they had plenty of room for all the B sides... why should people pay over 50 in the USA for this set? maybe New Order just want them to look nice sitting in on the store shelves (unsold) for years, so thousands of people see them as they walk by.
If makes me wonder if Rob Gretton was still around, would the Recycle project have carried on? I mean, in the box set I think Barney says that they didn't do it because they realized it would take about 20 cds to do it, but cds alone is actually enough to cover every b-side, 7" version, ect. Then last cd could have been used to pile on all those dub versions that haven't been on cd yet. I really think that this isn't New Order's fault, it's London Records. If you listen to most of the tracks, they aren't even remastered from the orginal tapes. True Faith still has those pop noises throughout the song, and Blue Monday still has that slight sound drop out like it on Substance. Even the 24HPP version was remastered and fixed that problem.
I was disappointed with the track listing too. I had been looking forward to Recycle, but Retro is somewhat lacking.
I'll probably buy it just to have a clean version of the original Confusion on CD. There are so many b-sides that could have been included, though I was surprised by the inclusion of Best and Marsh.
Remixes shouldn't be included on a box set, unless they were done by the band themselves.
I"m having a hard time figuring out who this set is aimed at. It's not complete enough for hardcore fans, but it seems a bit much for the casual listener. Retro is also a stupid name, makes it sound trendy.
In all honesty, I'm more impressed with some of the rarities and remixes here on NOOL.
It's kind of sad seeing NO falling into the "reissue, repackage, repackage" trap like the Smiths. There are a zillion Smiths compilations, and now there are four NO ones.
There are 2 ways of looking at this. Initially, I was disappointed by the set list for the 4CD box. "Nowt new there" sort of thing. The inclusion of the bonus brightened my day & from then on I was sure I'd buy it. Now I've had it in my car CD for 2 weeks, I can say that I am very happy with it. There's a different disc for my different moods & it all goes together quite well. Given the economics of the biz, the Recycle format was a no-go, so they cam up with something different. It isn't what I would have chosen, but they asked 4 other people, not me, to choose for them. The 2nd way of looking at it is to take it for what it is and not whish for what it isn't. Taking the 2nd view, I am much happier.
Merry Chrimbo 
Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> Come on.. it´s shite and you know that.
> > Look at Heard and Soul box set. OK, Joy Division made only two studio albuns, but they´ve put some GREAT STUFF on Disc 3. It´s a expensive collector item, and it should contain hardcore fans wanted tracks. That´s the meaning of a box set. People who just like the hits have Permanent 1995 or International. The bonus disc´s an indignity to the real fans who want to collect their rarities and find themselves suddenly empty-handed ´cause some lucky moron was in the right store at the right time and bought the limited edition before.
> > Face it: those tracks should be released on the regular box set, and Lundun Records sucks. :barf:
I really don't agree with the attitude that the music one likes suddenly becomes worthless just because other people now have it. One collects 'rarities' in order to enjoy listening to them, not for the rather misely pleasure of knowing they are rare and other people don't have them, surely? I know everyone (self included) sometimes gives in to that rather anal attitude, but its not really something to encourage, I think. And anyway, in this age of mp3 there are no rarities any more (hell, howdya think I feel with over a thousand cds, to see everyone and their dog downloading the stuff for nothing! That's life! )
And in any case, doesn't the same arugment apply to H&S? The first two disks were the same lp tracks, and some people already had stuff from the others by tracking down rare bootlegs.
What precisely would you have wanted to see on Retro? Perhaps the equivalents of H&S disk3 weren't on it because they don't exist?
I think they do exist
What could have been on Discs 3 and 4 of Retro
Western Works Demos Ceremony (original) In A Lonely Place (7" edit) Everything's Gone Green (7" edit) Mesh (From Factus 8 or FEP 313) Ode To Joy Rockin Carol Temptation (7" edit) Hurt (7" edit or full length 12" version) Blue Monday (Sunkist version) Thieves Like Us (7" edit) Rock Around The Clock (BBC 5 song live session - 1984) The Perfect Kiss (full length 12" version)
And many more... there must be demos of the band playing rehersal versions of the JD tracks played live such as Isolation, Atmosphere, She's Lost Control, Digital, LWTUA and Transmission etc
Just how good would it have been to get this rather than the unadulterated pish (EGG and TBTHOG excepted) from the club disc, and whilst the live cd is good it's not as good in my opinion as the stuff outlined above. IMHO.
Where's? Evil Dust Run 2 MTO Vanishing Point (instrumental...) Vicious Treak (NO mix) World (Dub) True Faith (alternate Dub)
Heh, it looks like I've got an alter ego in Brasil. I suppose I'll have to change my nome de plume again.
Originally posted by Mr Disco Heh, it looks like I've got an alter ego in Brasil. I suppose I'll have to change my nome de plume again.
Mickey Way (the Candy bar?)..
Originally posted by Mr Disco Heh, it looks like I've got an alter ego in Brasil. I suppose I'll have to change my nome de plume again.
Absolutely. Be my guest, you live in the right place and must keep the nick.
Originally posted by Substantial Republic of LowLifes It's SITTING UNDER MY BLOODY TREE!!! It's torture not being able to get to it
but it will be the first packaged opened, right 
In answer to the original question !!
At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.
Update on Crystal Days
17 previously unrealeased tracks (inc. lost songs, bbc sessions
21 rarities & b-sides never beofre available on CD
64 page booklet with in-depth history & never seen before photo's
Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built In answer to the original question !!At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.
OhMyGod.. I forgot the "Crystal Days" box set. No more comments. :(
Originally posted by Jordan L ...Given the economics of the biz, the Recycle format was a no-go, so they cam up with something different...
Can someone explain why the economics won't work for Recycle? They haven't stopped Big Country, The Cult, Depeche Mode, Erasure, Morrissey and U2 from releasing box sets of their past singles.
I posted that line after reading Hooky's words in the recent metro interview:
"But the box set was Rob's idea [Gretton, New Order's manager who died in 1999]. He wanted to do a collection of the singles, because a lot of them had never been released on CD, and he wanted to do them with the B-sides, the sleeves, everything. The record company couldn't really cope with that, so we needed to get an angle, and we came up with getting other people to compile the CDs with their idea of New Order."
Hope this clarifies. Merry Chrimbo. 
Today I got my Retro,International and Finsbury Park releases after the torture of seeing them arrive weeks ago. Initial impressions are excellent!!! A few posters above seem a bit short changed with their latest offerings some with good reason some without. With regard to who Retro is aimed at probably me! I got into New Order about 83' but listened to JD and heard a lot about them with them being a local band at school in Salford. I bought all the albums and 12" when most(not all) were released and now are stored safetly away. To get all this now on CD with a few rarities plus live material WOW. I love the band and all they stand for but have not been on a mission to collect everything Does this make me any less of a fan! NO.(No pun intended). To me imm in me element today. After very little for eight years 2 albums, 1 box set 1 new DVD loads of singles 24 HPP and live shows IMM BUZZIN!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets not give the guys and girl hard time! After all there together again and interested!
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.
Look at what they are doing with the PSB's - every album reissued with at least 10 more tracks... remixes, singles, Bsides... now that would be cool. Stop pressing the original albums and only issue the new ones with the extra songs.
By the way, I like Retro... no complaints here. Disk 1 doesn't get much airtime, but I love the other 4.
Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built In answer to the original question !!At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.
OhMyGod.. I forgot the "Crystal Days" box set. No more comments. :(
Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.
I'm presuming the 'hidden tracks' thing was a joke... If not, then I'm even dumber than you thought I was. Never occurred to me to look, and if I did, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find them... unless someone explained...
Originally posted by Chris Nash I'm presuming the 'hidden tracks' thing was a joke... If not, then I'm even dumber than you thought I was. Never occurred to me to look, and if I did, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find them... unless someone explained...
yes if theres hidden tracks can some one explain cos pressing play three times after fine time didnt work for me. might though on my clitoris...:)
Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.
..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:
