How dissapointing is Retro ?

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

I would respond to this, but your grammer is so interesting that I have no idea what you actually said.

Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> > > > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.>

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

I would respond to this, but your grammer is so interesting that I have no idea what you actually said.

Oh look everyone, just what the world was waiting for, A FUCKING KNOW-ALL PATRONISING AMERICAN. How good is your Portuguese then, you condescending c***.

P.S. "grammer" is spelt "grammar" in English, unless you're talking about the woman who was married to your "granpaw" (amongst others in your family)

Merry Christmas

In any event the Bunnymen and New Order have released a similar number of studio albums. (Bunnymen 8, New Order 7 by my reckoning). So where this imaginary 40% figure comes from is anyone's guess.

Happy New Year.

Oh look everyone, just what the world was waiting for, A FUCKING KNOW-ALL PATRONISING AMERICAN. How good is your Portuguese then, you condescending c***.

P.S. "grammer" is spelt "grammar" in English, unless you're talking about the woman who was married to your "granpaw" (amongst others in your family)

Merry Christmas

In any event the Bunnymen and New Order have released a similar number of studio albums. (Bunnymen 8, New Order 7 by my reckoning). So where this imaginary 40% figure comes from is anyone's guess.

Happy New Year.

Thank you. Being called names by you is quite nice actually.

P.S. Spelling grammar wrong in a rant about grammer is supposed to magnify the humor. I suppose only Fucking Know-All Patronizing Americans will catch that though. Sorry, I will attempt to lower my humor skills down to your level... What time is it when elephant sits on your fence?

P.S.S. I am British bonehead not American. I and my mother's whole side of the family are British. Even if I wasn't, you don't have to be British to know something about music.

P.S.S.S. How many singles and mixes did Echo release besides their studio albums?

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

Sorry Mr Disco, I wasn't really trying to make fun of your grammar skills, I was basically saying "I don't understand what you were trying to say."

Sorry Mr Disco, I wasn't really trying to make fun of your grammar skills, I was basically saying "I don't understand what you were trying to say."

Relax, that´s OK. I´m working right now, and just realized that I can´t work and think and type in english at the same time. See.. even I can´t get my point, so you´re actually in your right to make fun of me.. I would to :D

..I´ll try again later, whithout my boss around.

Originally posted by CTB > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> > > > Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.> > > > The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..> > > > Cheers>

..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about.

As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.

You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment. CTB

If NO are not a "finished band" as you say they are doing a very good impression of one having released a whole 2 (one disappointing, one average) new albums since 1989. Why do you think that "Retro" should not be a collection of personal favourites, surely thats EXACTLY what Discs 1 and 2 are. Who are John McCarthy and Miranda Sawyer and why is their opinion of what a best of should contain any more valid than mine or yours or any other NO fan.

As a fan of the band since 1981, and Joy Division beforehand, I hust feel cheated that there is very little on the box set aimed at people like me, who bought the early singles and albums, and that I am expected just to accept the fact that because New Order release something that I should be grateful for that. Given the previous availabilty of most of the tracks on Retro discs 1 and 2 I believe an opportunity has been lost, and I also feel cheateed that I have to wait until they release another box set in the HOPE that they might release tracks unavailable on cd in preference to tracks already widely available or ANOTHER remix disc.

Retrospective - means a look back. it doesn't necessarily cover only previously released material. In fact in its normal context I would say a "retrospective" would represent a comprehensive look back and not a selected one, but that's just my opinion.

Whether New Order owe long standing fans anything or not is a matter of debate, I think they do you obviously think differently. If it wasn't for their long standing fans putting up with their contrary nature which has been both inspiring and irritating at times then I don't think the'd be living in their big expensive houses in Cheshire.

I don't know how long you've been a fan or how easy it is getting hold of their stuff is in Australia, but in the beginning here the band seemed to positively discourage anyone becoming a fan, e.g. unnamed (never mind pictured) or very difficult to read names on their record sleeves, unnanounced gigs, sometimes 30 or 45 minute shambolic sets, no acknowledgement of the audience etc, etc, and yet we stood by them because the music was special, it was MORE than special. The lack of inclusion of the tracks I previously listed, just makes me feel that my support hasn't been worth jackshit, and I am only valued if I am once again willing to put my hand in my pocket. If someone at London Records or within New Order themselves doesn't recognise HOW important the original version of "Ceremony" et al is important to people like me, I just felt there should have been room on a 66 track box set for it (and a few others)

I'd be interested to think whether you or any other fans believe there will be another box set, and when do you think this will happen?

Finally

If New Order don't exist for the entertainment of fans like you and me, then they should cease to exist as a recording artist and touring band and just play amongst themselves for their own enjoyment.

Regards

Uhm.. wait. My point is: the "Crystal Days" box set has coherence (more than my spelling, for example :)) to the public to wich it´s destined. Both bands are still around since late 70´s, so I can´t agree with the "amount of available material" argument.

You see? I´ve bought "Interational" and wow: there are Round & round, Blue monday, Crystal and Ceremony. Got "Retro", and.. WOW: there are Round & round, Blue monday, Crystal, Ceremony and.. the album version of Elegia? And I have to get a f*****g limited edition to listen to the full unreleased version? Man, that´s exactly the dream of any fan!!!

Hmmmmm... Well, obviously everyone is going to have a different opinion of what should be included on the boxed set. Unfortunately, only a select few got to make their opinions a reality. Personally, I quite like the whole shebang. Disc one is, after all, called pop. Hence no doubt, the POPular tunes. It's a nice line up of tracks, I think. Disc two is essentially "disc one, part two", it seems. A sort of "pop" for so called "real" fans. Disc three was a pleasant surprise for me. I was expecting not to be too interested, but instead I love it!Disc four is a gem! I wish new order would do as Pearl jam did, and start releasing "official bootlegs" of as many live shows as possible. Disc five is splendid. I'm listening to Elegia even as I type this. Only real low point (for me) on the whole set is the live version of transmission with the bungled lyrics. (I'm pretty sure a better version could have been had, But we ARE talking about new order, here.)All in all, I'm giving retro a big thumbs up!

As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment.CTB

If NO are not a "finished band" as you say they are doing a very good impression of one having released a whole 2 (one disappointing, one average) new albums since 1989. Why do you think that "Retro" should not be a collection of personal favourites, surely thats EXACTLY what Discs 1 and 2 are. Who are John McCarthy and Miranda Sawyer and why is their opinion of what a best of should contain any more valid than mine or yours or any other NO fan.

As a fan of the band since 1981, and Joy Division beforehand, I hust feel cheated that there is very little on the box set aimed at people like me, who bought the early singles and albums, and that I am expected just to accept the fact that because New Order release something that I should be grateful for that. Given the previous availabilty of most of the tracks on Retro discs 1 and 2 I believe an opportunity has been lost, and I also feel cheateed that I have to wait until they release another box set in the HOPE that they might release tracks unavailable on cd in preference to tracks already widely available or ANOTHER remix disc.

Retrospective - means a look back. it doesn't necessarily cover only previously released material. In fact in its normal context I would say a "retrospective" would represent a comprehensive look back and not a selected one, but that's just my opinion.

Whether New Order owe long standing fans anything or not is a matter of debate, I think they do you obviously think differently. If it wasn't for their long standing fans putting up with their contrary nature which has been both inspiring and irritating at times then I don't think the'd be living in their big expensive houses in Cheshire.

I don't know how long you've been a fan or how easy it is getting hold of their stuff is in Australia, but in the beginning here the band seemed to positively discourage anyone becoming a fan, e.g. unnamed (never mind pictured) or very difficult to read names on their record sleeves, unnanounced gigs, sometimes 30 or 45 minute shambolic sets, no acknowledgement of the audience etc, etc, and yet we stood by them because the music was special, it was MORE than special. The lack of inclusion of the tracks I previously listed, just makes me feel that my support hasn't been worth jackshit, and I am only valued if I am once again willing to put my hand in my pocket. If someone at London Records or within New Order themselves doesn't recognise HOW important the original version of "Ceremony" et al is important to people like me, I just felt there should have been room on a 66 track box set for it (and a few others)

I'd be interested to think whether you or any other fans believe there will be another box set, and when do you think this will happen?

Finally

If New Order don't exist for the entertainment of fans like you and me, then they should cease to exist as a recording artist and touring band and just play amongst themselves for their own enjoyment.

Regards

Ken Firstly, I would argue that NO are 'finished' - the release of GR, HTS and the preparation of the new album are good examples that hey are still a (slow) working unit in 2001/2. When I asked if you thought RETRO should be a compilation of your personal favourites, the emphasis was on the word YOUR - everyone has different tastes, but hurt feelings and comments expressing disappointment with the selection appears as little more than jealousy aimed at Sawyer, Macready etc. Yes, we would have all liked a chance to pick the songs, but that's hardly practical. I don't know if there will be another NO box set - I would imagine not in the forseeable future. I would be as keen as any other longterm fan to see an official release of the 'real' rarities, but I also understand the band's reluctance to release demo material they didn't think should be available. I still maintain that NO don't exist solely for the entertainment of us, and don't 'owe' us anything. If the strength of your argument to the contrary relies on drawing into question the degree of fandom of others, I suggest stronger evidence is needed. I love their music, always have and will, but ultimately it's their music, and their decision to do with it what they want. If Barney didn't like the sound of his vocals on the original version of Ceremony, for example, then surely that overrides your seemingly desperate desire to have it released. And dare I say, that's fair enough. I'd suggest vote with your wallet - London exist solely as a corporate entity, so express your disappointment by not buying RETRO. Opinions only! CTB

Everyone sing along now:

Box sets, I've had a few But then again, too few to mention But this New Order set Just seems to be without redemption They planned it very poorly The tracklist fills me with dismay Except for the live disc Which has Turn My Way

I actually liked Hookey's idea of issuing the box set with blank discs...THAT would be novel.

THEN how would you all feel? I say...if you don't like the trak listing, don't buy it. If you did buy it...Shut Up already and be thankful that someone at their record company has enough faith in them as a relevant band to issue a box set!!!!

I have said before, and I will say it again. If I were making a box set targeting the mainstream fan and the semi rabid fan, then I would pretty much do the same exact thing as they did. It is a great box for anyone other than the rabid fan. The only thing I would do differently is fill the 5th disk. There was space left and they could have added a few more rarities. I love disks 2 - 5, and disk 1 is pretty much what the other compilations have. I am a rabid fan, and have been for 19 years. I give Retro a big thumbs up.

Retro is MUCH better than I thought it would be. Nearly all of everyone's favourites put in a nice order, some remixes I'd never bothered buying when they came out, and a couple of marginally better live recordings than I already had of a couple of tracks. Throw in a typically enigmatic and frustrating booklet, and you get the perfect New Order product.

Well, guys...I will be happy to no avail if I can even afford to buy an NO box set, whether it be International, Retro or Crystal Days (which I *JUST* found out about after reading this thread)! The economy in California (US) sucks right now, so it is nearly impossible for me to get a new contract at my temp agency (i.e. $5.00 in my bank account), let alone a job...I'm happy if I have enough money to refuel the car! And you guys have to remember: out here, it'll be harder to find a box-set like Crystal Days as only they are sparcely available at many of the local record companies (as in "they have no problem ordering 50,000 N'STYNC box-sets but will look at you funny when you mention the name New Order"). So---same old tracks or not---I will probably get stuck with International or possibly Retro, as any other cool box-sets will be hard to find (don't get me wrong, but of course I will try to find these jems online)...

No offense, but to all you sods crying about not having your favorite tracks on these: BITE ME...PISS OFF! :finger: At least you have the goddamned box set(s)! :hate:

I'm sorry, but I live in f*****g Brazil and one Dollar costs 3,6 brazilian Reais, and one britsh Pound costs 6,00 brazilian Reais, so I had to pay more than R$ 300,00 including taxes and hated the damned box, so I feel in my right to complain about something that makes me sick.

No offense, but to all you sods crying about not having your favorite tracks on these: BITE ME...PISS OFF! :finger: At least you have the goddamned box set(s)! :hate:

Word of advice matey - have you seen Mr Disco's avatar ? Thems "don't f*ck with me" eyes if ever I saw 'em.

Don't give him too much sh!t will ya ;)

Word of advice matey - have you seen Mr Disco's avatar ? Thems "don't f*ck with me" eyes if ever I saw 'em.

Don't give him too much sh!t will ya ;)

..Come on, Jordan.. mummy always told me that my eyes say "Help me, I'm fragile". :) :D ;) :evil: :shy:

Besides, if you think I look that bad, you should meet the rest of the NewOrder-Brasil guys.

Well, hey...I wouldn't know that. Besides, I was bitching at everyone in general...can you blame me? Sorry!

Now, Mr. Disco and I have something in common: we both neither have the money nor the resources to get what we want, and we have to deal with half-assed product! :(

Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!

Ta!

Originally posted by Ness Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!Thanks

The quote says "WUM" but the number of posts suggests not. Perhaps we need a poll to decide ;)

Ness my friend, search this Forum for the appropriate thread(s) & you will find the answers. :D

Originally posted by Ness Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!Ta!

I think we have created a tale that will not die.

Oh, damn...that's so funny! I can't wait to look for the hidden (Love Vigilantes) track on "Retro"! LOL!!!!

Originally posted by M. Domingo Oh, damn...that's so funny! I can't wait to look for the hidden (Love Vigilantes) track on "Retro"! LOL!!!!

I believe someone has already described the steps you need to follow...

..Well, despite the poor quality of it´s content, the artwork is great, so I´ll use that globe as my avatar (so I hope not scaring people anymore)

Originally posted by Mr. Disco ..Well, despite the poor quality of it´s content, the artwork is great, so I´ll use that globe as my avatar (so I hope not scaring people anymore)

Thats better...you even SCARED me before!I thought it was a WANTED(DEAD or ALIVE) poster!:D:D:D:D:D

Thats better...you even SCARED me before!I thought it was a WANTED(DEAD or ALIVE) poster!:D:D:D:D:D

..I know what you´re saying, but please.. that was only my license picture, for God´s sake!!! :D