Equal time for Gillian please

She must feel like shit when she's "erased" from the band. I've always felt she should have sung sooner on a NO album, not in a cheesy, duetish way, just having her own songs. I think she sounds great on the few songs she does backup on once in awhile, so I'm not just trying to be PC, she has a great voice. I've been listening to a lot of Other Two lately, Super highways is one of my favorite NO-related albums ever.

Now she's pretty much ignored, and everyone thinks she never contributed much just because she wasn't there "since the beginning" (though she was, in a way).

Gillian has supporters here at NOOL and I'm one of them. She may not tour now but as long as she records with the band she's still contributing to it.

:D:D:D:D anita

That's good. I wonder how much of it is guys not wanting to like a girl musician. Especially for younger fans who are just getting into them, it isn't terribly popular to have a girl in a band, you just don't see that much. It's either a guy band or a girl band, which sounds stupid even as I type it...

Well there's a lot of examples of guy bands with a girl as a lead singer. But I'm having a hard time thinking of another band that's predominately male with a female member who doesn't sing.

Originally posted by Michael Baran Well there's a lot of examples of guy bands with a girl as a lead singer. But I'm having a hard time thinking of another band that's predominately male with a female member who doesn't sing.

Dandy Warhols ?

Talking Heads The Feelies and The Velvet Underground instantly spring to mind.

Sadly - there still exists (and will continue to do so) a large fraternity of New Order / Joy Division diehard fans, who would be content to forever dismiss Gillian and her contributions to the band, because to them it IS - no more no less - a bit of a "lads all in it together" kind of thing (this was actually echoed in a sentiment by Hooky in an earlier interview when asked what he felt about Gillian not being with the band on all promotional/touring duties). This will never change, unfortunately.

What's more - in the majority of the cases of bands with one female member, you're never going to be without the attendent problem of the female being the focus of comment from less discerning - and therefore less insightful - fans [and yes - they do still exist] for a variety of reasons - not all positive - such as:

1. well, she's the token female so she's got to be the least talented (see Linda McCartney for proof of this discrimination)
2. well, she's only there for the glamour factor
3. well, she's only in it cause her boyfriend's in the band too, but at least she looks all right...(how many bands can you think of that have this?!)
4. she's only there cos she got lucky
5. she's only there cos she slept her way into the line up...
6. she's only there cos they need someone to provide the tea and biscuits and sandwiches for them on tour....

...all of which are quite rightly ridiculous notions anyway.

So yes, in many cases, the token female in the band will always be the subject of much misrepresentation, conjecture and downright discriminatory prejudice. And Gillian's role in New Order is a perfect example of this.

:(

Linda McCartney was in Wings because Paul wanted her there. She didn't play any instruments but Paul taught her and she was a contributing member of the band on tour and in the studio.

If Gillian had to audition for NO then she got in on her own merits.

:D:D:D:D anita...Gillian is cool

Well, I know she was dating Stephen when they were still Joy Division, and that she had a band of her own way back at the beginning. I also read that she filled in from time to time when Bernard couldn't play, as she was pretty familiar with their set lists. It sounds like it just sort of happened, which is probably as it should be.

You can often tell who contributes what in NO by listening to the side projects, and I like what Gillian adds. It's funny, she seems to be the most good-natured of the four, yet she sings these melancholy lyrics in that ethereal voice.

gillian gilbert is a beautiful, talented person, newOrder would be nothing without her, you go girl.

Despite all our learned friends and their connections we've still never heard a plausible explanation as to why she no longer features in the band. There's defineately more to it than the official line regarding her ill daughter.

Yeah, she did play with JD a few times, so in a sense has been a member of both bands.

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson Despite all our learned friends and their connections we've still never heard a plausible explanation as to why she no longer features in the band. There's defineately more to it than the official line regarding her ill daughter.

i dont think she really liked playing live she seems like a very shy person, im sure she is happy not to be touring anymore, ive seen her intervied by herself and she just seems like she hates attention, well thats my opinion as far as her talent, i think it grew over the years, she wasnt very good at the start but did become an important part of the group that is why rob gretton suggested her for the band so they could grow and form a different sound together and create a sound different than that of Joy Division

gillian, i never really how much she did contribute to the band in terms of writing. i guess that's the thing, she's the least visible member of new order (hell, it wasn't until i became a big fan of NO that i knew that they even had a female member), she's quiet and i dunno, i guess she gets ignored. maybe it's unfair to dismiss her as a disposible member of the group. i don't know.

but i agree that most female musicians are typecasted in one way or another...the sexy singer, the girlfriend, the singer/songwriter a la lilith fair ilk, the angry alanis-esque imitator. but there's lots of examplerary female members who either form bands or are an integral part of one.... kim gordon and georgia from yo la tengo (who does a fine job of singing and playing drums)

Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson Despite all our learned friends and their connections we've still never heard a plausible explanation as to why she no longer features in the band. There's defineately more to it than the official line regarding her ill daughter.

You don't understand that a seriously ill child is her first priority?

Originally posted by Andy T > Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson> Despite all our learned friends and their connections we've still never heard a plausible explanation as to why she no longer features in the band. There's defineately more to it than the official line regarding her ill daughter.

You don't understand that a seriously ill child is her first priority?

Well said! You must also be a parent!

i met Gillian in Melbourne while touring with the 'family'. The child seemed happy. I gave Gillan a birthday present and she enjoyed the attention. If i remember correctly, the new sessions were demo'ed/recorded at Steve's/Gillian's farm and hence she surely would not be sitting in the lounge room minding her own business while the boys play with their toys. Five years ago we all would have said that we'd never see neworder live again, so let's not write off gillian so quickly.....

That was kinda funny, picturing a jam session while Gillian sips tea in the kitchen, thinking, "To hell with 'em!"

Originally posted by Matthew Smyth > Originally posted by Andy T> > > > Originally posted by Grahame Ferguson> > Despite all our learned friends and their connections we've still never heard a plausible explanation as to why she no longer features in the band. There's defineately more to it than the official line regarding her ill daughter.>

You don't understand that a seriously ill child is her first priority?

Well said! You must also be a parent!

Yeah. I actually eat children for breakfast. I'm bad to the bone me.

As Jarvo said, she's travelled with the band to Oz and North America which kinda makes the ill child line a bit flimsy dontcha think?

Learn yer facts fannybaws.

Yeah. I actually eat children for breakfast. I'm bad to the bone me.

As Jarvo said, she's travelled with the band to Oz and North America which kinda makes the ill child line a bit flimsy dontcha think?

Learn yer facts fannybaws.

I don't think they would fabricate a story about their child being seriously ill.

Thankfully their daughter's health improved. Just because Gillian didn't rejoin after being out of the loop for that time doesn't mean there's some secret conspiracy. She has just re-evaluated her priorities.

Fannybaws?

Originally posted by Andy T

Yeah. I actually eat children for breakfast. I'm bad to the bone me.

As Jarvo said, she's travelled with the band to Oz and North America which kinda makes the ill child line a bit flimsy dontcha think?

Learn yer facts fannybaws.

I don't think they would fabricate a story about their child being seriously ill.

Thankfully their daughter's health improved. Just because Gillian didn't rejoin after being out of the loop for that time doesn't mean there's some secret conspiracy. She has just re-evaluated her priorities.

Fannybaws?

Glad you've got a direct link into the Morris household. And thanks for clearing the whole Gillian issue up for all of us here once and for all. Any chance you could let us know when the tour is next year? Or if they're rehearsing TPK ? Cheers.

"Fannybaws"? A Glaswegian term of endearment. Has to be said with a thick accent to work though!

Yer probably right Mr.G! Good to hear from you. Hope Santa was good to you, he's been smiling on your team for the last few weeks thats for sure! Good result yesterday.

Originally posted by Andy T

Yeah. I actually eat children for breakfast. I'm bad to the bone me.

As Jarvo said, she's travelled with the band to Oz and North America which kinda makes the ill child line a bit flimsy dontcha think?

Learn yer facts fannybaws.

I don't think they would fabricate a story about their child being seriously ill.

Thankfully their daughter's health improved. Just because Gillian didn't rejoin after being out of the loop for that time doesn't mean there's some secret conspiracy. She has just re-evaluated her priorities.

Fannybaws?

You're welcome.

Leave it to a bunch of eighties music freaks to propose a conspiracy about why Gillian isn't in the band. Maybe we can get Julia Roberts to play Gillian and Mel Gibson to play Barney. Yeah, because a plot like this is destined for the big screen.

Gillian is basically the reason I got into New Order. She was geeky, she had bad hair, she wore too much makeup. At age 14, I could totally relate. Plus, I liked the fact that she was a member of the band and not there purely to be a piece of ass. So even though it took her years to learn to use the black keys, I still think she rules and NO just isn't the same without her.

And I'm glad her baby is doing better. :)

If you read between the lines, its obvious whats happened to GG.

She has been forced out of the band to make way for the return of............IAN CURTIS.

Ian's obviously over his depression now, he will explain why he faked his death allegedly listening to Iggy Pop's The Idiot. He was in fact actually listening to Lust For Life and was in a much better mood - you can just imagine him singing along to "The Passenger", la, la, la, la etc.. in his front room. He will soon return to the band and NO will change their name back to Joy Division - honest, the evidence is ahem, overwhelming! see below.

Look at the increasing amount of JD songs now featuring in a NO concert set, they're obviously getting ready (no pun intended) for the return of Macclesfields most miserable son and the difficult third album.

They've been using this guy "Phil" from "Up North" as a cover. I bet within weeks Ian will have replaced him in the band, and only very few of us will have noticed.

The reason why the NO original version of "Ceremony" wasn't in "Retro" is now clear, this will be JOY DIVISION'S COMEBACK SINGLE. IT ALL MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Of course this all depends that BBC 2 don't show "Strozek's Last Stand" anytime soon.

What I thought was pretty shoddy about Retro was they didn't have any quotes from Gillian (although her picture appears a few times). I mean, all it would have taken was half an hour with a tape recorder going through the tracklist and getting a couple of quotes. That's all they probably did with the others. Could've done it over the phone even!

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vicious streak rocks so does gillian adios

If I ever get confirmation Gillian isn't in the band anymore, I'm going to sell all of my new order fucking records or throw them away through the window.

G-I-L-L-I-A-N !

My signature says it all. Champomy first.

I agree with Antoine, despite all the piss taking at Gillian, New Order is definitely the poorer without her and I hope she'll be partaking of the new tracks (which the lads are quite conveniently doing at her place).

BTW Antoine could you explain what "champomy" means?

Champomy ? Bah, it is too stupid. Common stupid french TV ad. Champony is some sort of Champagne for children (ie no alcohol and loads of sugar and bubbles). So the advert presents some sort of children birthday party but the children have kidnapped the dog. So the parents get in the room and say "Let the dog go away !" and the kids' reply is "no, give us Champomy first !".

Bwahaha. Typical stupid frog humour. Does not even equal Benny Hill.

"Let Gillian go back !" "Champomy first". The next new order single. Probably. We're like children (Ooooooh). We drink Champomy (heeeheeee)

Cheers Antoine!

Now, Champagne for children! That IS truly French!

gillian, may i have a little more syth please...

I thought it was pretty obvious why she hasn't been around (apart from sick child)

for this latest release NO have gone 'professional'. either because they have been told to by record co or now they have one eye on retirement (either through old age or lack of sales). dont forget they did not make a lot of money during their most creative periods (ok so they did but poured it down the hacienda)

So everybody gets on the promotional treadmill (though i reckon hooky loves it)

Then, if you are going to fill stadiums and sell lots of live dvds the thing to do is to loose the variable level of performance that NO is ahem, renowned for.

Say goodbye to experimentation. Say goodbye to setlists that change. Say goodbye to (a lot of) chance.

Say hello to tapes. You could see it coming on the 3:16 dvd. nice big button above Gillian's kb to kick it off. If you saw the article on NO when the acid loop competition was running you saw a reference to a guy producing the live sound. looking at his article you saw him talking about taking stuff off tapes (and even taking stuff from LWTUA, and the carbon flies off and they have to have the tape baked). 511 is just a trawl through the orignal tapes of many songs with barney going 'whoooo!' every 30 seconds to show its live.

So in effect you make Gillian redudant in the live arena as you are after the 'just like the album' sound.

New album is very guitarry. OK lets get a guitarist in. Whoa! even better. Now you have an extra guitarist you could possibly now play some JD songs, as Barney cannot sing whilst playing (which is one of the main reasons they don't tend to play that stuff too much previously)

Now maybe... maybe... maybe if we fill half the set with JD tunes you can convince some of the audience to buy some old JD stuff and shift some more gear for the retirement fund.

You have to realise, they have totally sold out, which isnt surprising as they are getting older and need some financial security.

I don't care about that as long as they continue to write good tunes. but i wont be seeing them 'live' again.

Originally posted by Ned Nurk I thought it was pretty obvious why she hasn't been around (apart from sick child)for this latest release NO have gone 'professional'. either because they have been told to by record co or now they have one eye on retirement (either through old age or lack of sales). dont forget they did not make a lot of money during their most creative periods (ok so they did but poured it down the hacienda)So everybody gets on the promotional treadmill (though i reckon hooky loves it)Then, if you are going to fill stadiums and sell lots of live dvds the thing to do is to loose the variable level of performance that NO is ahem, renowned for.Say goodbye to experimentation. Say goodbye to setlists that change. Say goodbye to (a lot of) chance.Say hello to tapes. You could see it coming on the 3:16 dvd. nice big button above Gillian's kb to kick it off. If you saw the article on NO when the acid loop competition was running you saw a reference to a guy producing the live sound. looking at his article you saw him talking about taking stuff off tapes (and even taking stuff from LWTUA, and the carbon flies off and they have to have the tape baked). 511 is just a trawl through the orignal tapes of many songs with barney going 'whoooo!' every 30 seconds to show its live.So in effect you make Gillian redudant in the live arena as you are after the 'just like the album' sound. New album is very guitarry. OK lets get a guitarist in. Whoa! even better. Now you have an extra guitarist you could possibly now play some JD songs, as Barney cannot sing whilst playing (which is one of the main reasons they don't tend to play that stuff too much previously)Now maybe... maybe... maybe if we fill half the set with JD tunes you can convince some of the audience to buy some old JD stuff and shift some more gear for the retirement fund.You have to realise, they have totally sold out, which isnt surprising as they are getting older and need some financial security.I don't care about that as long as they continue to write good tunes. but i wont be seeing them 'live' again.

this is the first time a sell-out has garnered sympathy!

Originally posted by Snucker

this is the first time a sell-out has garnered sympathy!

Hey lets just say I appreciate their problems!

...it's all part of Gillian's grant scheme to take over NO and ultimately...the WORLD!!!!!

If Gillian wants to push the button...I support her.

Besides, she was there all throughout the grant ol' heyday years...so she can do what she wants...but if she did leave, so sad.

ROCK ON GILLIAN!!

I wouldn't worry about Gillian leaving as the guys have already put one much more massive departure behind them.

Can I just wish Gillian and Steve's kid all the best.