Live albums

Responding to another thread got me thinking. OK, we've had Preston and Les Bains Douches released as JD live albums, plus the live stuff on Heart and Soul, but are there any more suitable gigs out there for release ? There's quite a few that would have suitable sound (particularly High Wycombe Town Hall 20/2/80 which is excellent), and as long as there's a target market.....

As for New Order, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing for them to release some old shows along the same lines as Preston/Paris. There's plenty of really good shows, warts and all, that wouldn't need any enhancement, and to my mind it makes a lot of sense for them to seize the moment and stick out maybe an 81, 82 or 83 gig, none of which will be too long, and would have some interesting songs on there. I've been listening to some US 83 shows recently, all good stuff and featuring two albums plus the various singles (and short format Blue Monday).

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Responding to another thread got me thinking. OK, we've had Preston and Les Bains Douches released as JD live albums, plus the live stuff on Heart and Soul, but are there any more suitable gigs out there for release ? There's quite a few that would have suitable sound (particularly High Wycombe Town Hall 20/2/80 which is excellent), and as long as there's a target market.....As for New Order, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing for them to release some old shows along the same lines as Preston/Paris. There's plenty of really good shows, warts and all, that wouldn't need any enhancement, and to my mind it makes a lot of sense for them to seize the moment and stick out maybe an 81, 82 or 83 gig, none of which will be too long, and would have some interesting songs on there. I've been listening to some US 83 shows recently, all good stuff and featuring two albums plus the various singles (and short format Blue Monday).

NO should pick the greatest show (sound, content, crowd, etc) from each album tour, remaster it and release it in it's entirety (with no edits). This would be the greatest way to do it.

If they do this I shall sue them for devaluing my bootleg collection :)

Seriously, I'd much rather they concentrate on producing as much good new material as possible. They've never exactly been prolific have they, and they're getting on a bit now...

The JD Paradiso gig deserves an official release in full, it's unusually long for them (IIRC the support didn't turn up and they played 2 sets) the sound quality is there, all that's missing is the start of Passover. Since bits came out on Les Bains Douches, I doubt it will happen though.

As for NO, I'm sure there are digital soundboard tapes of most of the bigger festivals a-plenty, and we've all heard a few of the better sounding bootlegs.

In general, while I'm willing to accept that the band may not be overly enamoured of another trawl through the past right now, some kinda semi-official "fan club" releases (perhaps only available via the web, in order to minimise marketing/production costs) would definitely go a long way towards derailing the bootleg industry. The unhappy reality is that the existence of a bootleg industry proves that people do want this product, and are prepared to pay over the odds for poor sound quality in order to get it. Wouldn't it be nicer if, instead, for a smaller nominal fee, people who really want it could get their mitts on it through legitimate channels? The most popular stuff could then get a wider scale official release. It'd never work on a major record company though. Ah well...

This is an idea I've been hoping would gather some momentum. I think they could reasonably do some small runs of "internet only" type releases. Minimal packaging and notes - just at least let us have the tunes. The Pearl Jam releases of a few years ago were fantastic. With the variety of NO's live sets from the 80's (before the Technique tour), they could offer some drastically different selections - something to please everyone (for a change).

The Joy Division Brussels gig 17 Jan 1980 The ENTIRE eindhoven gig 18 Jan 1980 University of London gig 08 Feb 1980 High Wycombe, 20 Feb 1980 [including the soundcheck]

We've been through this - we got a live disc with "Retro" and that was a surprise I can tell you - there will be NO e-commerce/pay per listen/official fucking bootleg series - believe me - IT WILL NOT HAPPEN; FORGET IT.

Unless properly recorded via multi track mobile or digital a-dat then live recordings are (as a generality) hellish.

Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.

Again, I have to point out that the members of this site represent about 1% of New Order sales. Any percentage is of course important but not when it comes to the hassle of remastering old tapes in the hope of selling a few thousand copies of "New Order live at the Birmingham, Powerhouse" or yet another Reading performance. Been there - done that...

anything would be nice, the taste of the retro live album only wants folks like me who have few bootlegs wanting more more more

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Responding to another thread got me thinking. OK, we've had Preston and Les Bains Douches released as JD live albums, plus the live stuff on Heart and Soul, but are there any more suitable gigs out there for release ? There's quite a few that would have suitable sound (particularly High Wycombe Town Hall 20/2/80 which is excellent), and as long as there's a target market.....As for New Order, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing for them to release some old shows along the same lines as Preston/Paris. There's plenty of really good shows, warts and all, that wouldn't need any enhancement, and to my mind it makes a lot of sense for them to seize the moment and stick out maybe an 81, 82 or 83 gig, none of which will be too long, and would have some interesting songs on there. I've been listening to some US 83 shows recently, all good stuff and featuring two albums plus the various singles (and short format Blue Monday).

In a similar vein, do you know of shows that have been professionally videoed/filmed but not released? I'm only aware of the 1985 Toronto gig.

Originally posted by FourFortyFive Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.

Erm...

Shellshock. Subculture (single remix). State/Shame of the Nation. The sound quality on Brotherhood. Most people don't like Rock the Shack (and there's a recent one for ya!) I could go on...

That argument does not hold water.

One for all the purists:

How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?

It was a bit before my time I have to say cos I only really started listening to the band in 1989 circa Technique.

Originally posted by FourFortyFive Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.

That narrows it down a bit then :)

What would be nice is maybe a three disc boxset of Reading 89, 93, and 98. It would be nice to have BLT from 93, great performance and audience interaction. Not to mention I would like to have a complete soundboard recording of 98 and 89.

Eric

"How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?"

well the performance was pretty great, but the bootleg is a terrible audience recording and the machine was running too fast, as a result the boot is slow sounding.

The fact remains that whether Barney can accept it or not, people want live recordings. If the band don't sanction their release, people will still buy them from bootleggers for extortionate amounts of money. So the control Barney thinks he has is a myth, people are still hearing the 'below par' performances. The only difference is that the band don't get the money, the bootleggers do.

So, what then is Barney actually achieving by blocking official releases ?

Originally posted by FourFortyFive We've been through this - we got a live disc with "Retro" and that was a surprise I can tell you - there will be NO e-commerce/pay per listen/official fucking bootleg series - believe me - IT WILL NOT HAPPEN; FORGET IT.Unless properly recorded via multi track mobile or digital a-dat then live recordings are (as a generality) hellish.Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.Again, I have to point out that the members of this site represent about 1% of New Order sales. Any percentage is of course important but not when it comes to the hassle of remastering old tapes in the hope of selling a few thousand copies of "New Order live at the Birmingham, Powerhouse" or yet another Reading performance. Been there - done that...

I don't think Barney is the only member of the band who takes this position. Unfortunately, the band's only experience with releasing a proper live CD is the Glasto '87 show (which IMHO is substandard). I remember reading an article shortly after this CD came out back in '90 - '91 (I think) about how disappointed the band was with the final product. Hooky was quoted as saying that if they had known that it was going to sound like it does, they never would have agreed to have it released by the BBC.

Originally posted by mh > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.

Erm...

Shellshock. Subculture (single remix). State/Shame of the Nation. The sound quality on Brotherhood. Most people don't like Rock the Shack (and there's a recent one for ya!) I could go on...

That argument does not hold water.

Yes - but in the end, that's the way they wanted those tracks to sound (?) - I agree in part but the fact remains that few of us have to actually pay for live recordings these days so simply create your own compilations and distribute them...

Originally posted by FourFortyFive > Originally posted by mh> > > > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> > Whether you believe this or not is obviously irrelevant but Mr Sumner will NOT have below par performances or recordings released officially.>

Erm...

Shellshock. Subculture (single remix). State/Shame of the Nation. The sound quality on Brotherhood. Most people don't like Rock the Shack (and there's a recent one for ya!) I could go on...

That argument does not hold water.

Yes - but in the end, that's the way they wanted those tracks to sound (?) - I agree in part but the fact remains that few of us have to actually pay for live recordings these days so simply create your own compilations and distribute them...

Which is what I was suggesting the band take a hand in doing. I'm not saying they need to remaster them or anything - I'm suggesting a warts 'n' all presentation, and if Barney wants any control in the matter, this is the only way.

Originally posted by Dave_Barrie One for all the purists: How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?It was a bit before my time I have to say cos I only really started listening to the band in 1989 circa Technique.

pretty horrible from my seat about 10 miles away from the stage....new order/wembley arena...this was a death toll for me..

Originally posted by PAUL TROWELL > Originally posted by Dave_Barrie> One for all the purists: > > How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?> > It was a bit before my time I have to say cos I only really started listening to the band in 1989 circa Technique.

pretty horrible from my seat about 10 miles away from the stage....new order/wembley arena...this was a death toll for me.. Utter crap as far as I am concerned.Don't know how qualified I am to comment though as I got thrown out after a couple of songs for dancing in the aisle.Got back in only to be thrown out a few songs later by the over zealous bouncers who then proceeded to rip my ticket up so I couldn't get in again.Got back in for the encore though when they opened all the doors up and there was a brawl with a group of lads and the bouncers.Hope they never play that cowshed again!

wembley arena.....alongside sheffield city hall (86)...miners benefit gig where they played 8 or 9 songs and couldnt get off stage fast enough.....these are two pretty shocking memories of the order live....but you are right...wembley was officially horrible!!!

Originally posted by PAUL TROWELL wembley arena.....alongside sheffield city hall (86)...miners benefit gig where they played 8 or 9 songs and couldnt get off stage fast enough.....these are two pretty shocking memories of the order live....but you are right...wembley was officially horrible!!!

Yeah that was bollocks as well though I was chuffed they played EGG and as for that twat from ABC introducing them...

Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by PAUL TROWELL> wembley arena.....alongside sheffield city hall (86)...miners benefit gig where they played 8 or 9 songs and couldnt get off stage fast enough.....these are two pretty shocking memories of the order live....but you are right...wembley was officially horrible!!!

Yeah that was bollocks as well though I was chuffed they played EGG and as for that twat from ABC introducing them...

we were astounded the order came on first....we all fucked off and were in sheffield city centre for about 9.30pm...did billy bragg follow the order...and as for martin fry !!!!

Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by PAUL TROWELL> > > > Originally posted by Dave_Barrie> > One for all the purists: > > > > How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?> > > > It was a bit before my time I have to say cos I only really started listening to the band in 1989 circa Technique.>

pretty horrible from my seat about 10 miles away from the stage....new order/wembley arena...this was a death toll for me.. Utter crap as far as I am concerned.Don't know how qualified I am to comment though as I got thrown out after a couple of songs for dancing in the aisle.Got back in only to be thrown out a few songs later by the over zealous bouncers who then proceeded to rip my ticket up so I couldn't get in again.Got back in for the encore though when they opened all the doors up and there was a brawl with a group of lads and the bouncers.Hope they never play that cowshed again!

A mate of mine got chucked out after Ceremony for running down the front. I only found this out after the gig as I was way back on the side of the hall. Apparently he ended up drinking with others who had been thrown out in a pub nearby.

The thing I remember about this gig is them playing LWTUA and Sister Ray and thinking, fucks sake I can't enjoy this as I'm miles away from the stage.

Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by PAUL TROWELL> > > > Originally posted by Dave_Barrie> > One for all the purists: > > > > How good or bad was the 1987 New Order gig at Wembley Arena with Primal Scream supporting? Was it worth capturing on tape then?> > > > It was a bit before my time I have to say cos I only really started listening to the band in 1989 circa Technique.>

pretty horrible from my seat about 10 miles away from the stage....new order/wembley arena...this was a death toll for me.. Utter crap as far as I am concerned.Don't know how qualified I am to comment though as I got thrown out after a couple of songs for dancing in the aisle.Got back in only to be thrown out a few songs later by the over zealous bouncers who then proceeded to rip my ticket up so I couldn't get in again.Got back in for the encore though when they opened all the doors up and there was a brawl with a group of lads and the bouncers.Hope they never play that cowshed again!

I was about 10 rows from the front on an end seat, can you believe there were seats all the way to the stage. If my foot strayed beyond the seat line the bouncers were on to me. I was damned nearly kicked out as well. I seem to remember it was good gig with LWTUA and Sister Ray as encores.

Wembley was a massive letdown. Compared to the atmosphere and total mayhem that was Finsbury Supertent six months earlier this gig was a huge disappointment. Couldn't see a thing as I was sat near the back. Security threatened to throw us out for standing on the seats. Good set list which was spoiled by the poor sound. Thankfully the next gig at G-Mex lived up to expectations.

Originally posted by 404 error If they do this I shall sue them for devaluing my bootleg collection :)Seriously, I'd much rather they concentrate on producing as much good new material as possible. They've never exactly been prolific have they, and they're getting on a bit now...

All the more reason to focus on releasing older live stuff. We are only going to get a couple more new albums (at best) and there's going to be a couple of years in between, so it's not like they are busy doing other things. The record company releasing live stuff isn't going to tie down NO. That would be like thinking the Peel Sessions reissue is going to cause their new album to be delayed... not gonna happen... NO can cause something to get delayed without reason.