joy division / new order blanked by the NME

THE STONE ROSES' eponymous debut album has been voted the best album of all time by the writers of NME and NME.COM.

The poll, conducted for the first time in ten years, saw the Pixies' 'Doolittle' LP, also released in 1989, come in at Number Two. The 1993 winner of the poll, 'Pet Sounds' by The Beach Boys, is at Number Three this time.

Elsewhere in the Top Ten, The Strokes represented the Noughties, with 2001's NME Album Of The Year 'Is This It' entering the chart at Seven.

The full Top Ten is:

1. The Stone Roses "The Stone Roses'
2. Pixies 'Doolittle'
3. The Beach Boys 'Pet Sounds'
4. Television 'Marquee Moon'
5. The Beatles 'Revolver'
6. Love 'Forever Changes'
7. The Strokes 'Is This it'
8. The Smiths 'The Queen Is Dead' 9.The Velvet Underground 'The Velvet Underground & Nico'
9. The Sex Pistols 'Never Mind The Bollocks...'

Typical NME bollocks. Strokes in the Top Ten of all time.......No Closer......No Radiohead......

To be fair it was a top 100 and this is it up to 41 for obvious reasons. The total absence of Low-life is what amazed me.

1. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
2. Pixies - Doolittle
3. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
4. Television - Marquee Moon
5. The Beatles - Revolver
6. Love - Forever Changes
7. The Strokes - Is This It
8. The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
9. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
10. The Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks
11. My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
12. The Clash - London Calling
13. Oasis - Definitely Maybe
14. Joy Division - Closer
15. Nirvana - In Utero
16. Radiohead - OK Computer
17. Spiritualized - Ladies And Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space
18. Blondie - Parallel Lines
19. Nirvana - Nevermind
20. The White Stripes - White Blood Cells
21. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground
22. New Order - Technique
23. Primal Scream - Screamadelica
24. The Beatles - The Beatles (AKA The White Album)
25. The Smiths - Strangeways, Here We Come
26. David Bowie - Low
27. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
28. The Verve - A Northern Soul
29. Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions to Hold Us Back
30. Massive Attack - Blue Lines
31. Pixies - Surfer Rosa
32. The Byrds - The Notorious Byrd Brothers
33. Eminem - The Marshall Mathers LP
34. Patti Smith - Horses
35. Jeff Buckley - Grace
36. Kraftwerk - Trans-Europe Express
37. Oasis - (What's The Story) Morning Glory
38. Scott Walker - Scott 4
39. Ramones - Ramones
40. Coldplay - A Rush Of Blood To The Head
41. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures

The same old list of the same old LPs that always appear in these lists, with one or two flavours of the moment just to show how "hip with the kids" those granddads at the NME are. Bleagh.

And no sign of Spacemen 3 anywhere there either :(

Why Coldplay or Eminem, and not Low-Life or Unknown pleasures...

WHY?

an Eminem album before Unknown Pleasures?

I think the list is pretty good apart from a few wierd additions (or good ones too highly rated) and the absence of PC&L or LL making me feel ill.

this list is terrible.

HOWEVER! i must give the NME some credit for naming LWTUA the greatest single of all-time. i couldn't agree more.

p.s. The Stone Roses' debut is undoubtedly great. but i seriously can't even UNDERSTAND - literally - how a music magazine/critics could name it the best album of all-time. it seems ridiculous to me - truly ridiculous.

oh NME! will you ever learn?

and where's The Jesus & Mary Chain's Psychocandy? that should definitely be high on that list.

and Strangeways instead of Meat Is Murder?

of course, EVERYONE's top albums list is going to be different from the next person's. i mean, tons of people would disagree with my list, even other NOonliners. and while it's all subjective, and i respect everyone's musical taste, some things just seem...not right. like putting Eminem's Marshall Mathers LP ahead of Unknown Pleasures.

i mean, maybe lists like this are pointless except for the person who makes them. it's all so subjective.

(sorry about the influx of posts on this thread.)

OK, it's all subjective, but..... 3 of the top 41 albums written & recorded by JD/NO, more than The Beatles, The Smiths?...I'd say that was a result, wouldn't you?

Glad to see Doolittle in there tho' : classic album, and definitely in my top 10 :)

Didn't Low-Life make the last NME Writers' list? Ho hum... It's actually an alright list (with the exception of a couple of comedy selections, eg Andrew WK further down the list!!), and if there's one thing that needs to be said in favour of critics' album polls, it's that New Order always make it in somewhere, which they rarely do in popular votes.

I saved a few old NMEs from the late 70's, early to mid-80s (including the 1980 issue with Joy Division on the cover, reporting Ian's death a month after it happened, due to an IPC strike that shut down the weeklies for a bit). Also saved their 1985 issue with the 100 best. Here's the top 10 from that period:

1. Marvin Gaye "What's Going On
2. Van Morrison "Astral Weeks"
3. Bob Dylan "Highway 61 Revisited"
4. The Clash "The Clash"
5. Television "Marquee Moon"
6. Tom Waits "Swordfishtrombones"
7. The Band "The Band"
8. Bob Dylan "Blonde On Blonde"
9. John Lennon "Plastic Ono Band"
10. Joy Division "Unknown Pleasures"

Pistols at 13, VU&Nico at 16, Trans-Europe Express at 38, Man-Machine at 43, Closer at 55, Entertainment! at 60, Meat Is Murder (only Smiths entry) at 65. I was also delighted to see that Stranded by Roxy and Paris 1919 by John Cale made the cut back then, though I doubt they'll make it this time.

I know there are an entirely different set of writers now, but I wonder how the people who voted then would vote now.

nme are so far up the strokes collective arse. although i admit nme can be a really amusing read. i read a couple articles on craig david and staind and i burst out laughing. its kind of tabloid-ish.

i really question the inclusion of the pixies!

Originally posted by Spotnick Well.. Peter Hook did produced the #1 album, isn't it?In fact, somebody questionned that the other day, but the All Music Guide DOES credit Peter Hook as "producer" for the Stone Roses' eponymous album.. (aside the other guy who produced it)http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=10:11:56|PM&sql=A89hxlfae5cqyPeter Hook - Producer John Leckie - Producer, Mixing Paul Schroeder - Engineer Ian Brown - Vocals Mani - Bass Reni - Drums, Vocals (bckgr) John Squire - Guitar, Paintings Ian Tilton - Photography Simon Taylor - Photography

Hooky only produced one song - Elephant Stone.

Originally posted by Gilbert O'Gillian OK, it's all subjective, but..... 3 of the top 41 albums written & recorded by JD/NO, more than The Beatles, The Smiths?...I'd say that was a result, wouldn't you?

oh certainly true.

I bought the NME yesterday to have a look at this list. Overall it's pretty good, I've got 80 of them and it does influence me to check out the other 20 if I see them going in a sale. It's never going to be exactly the same as your own list. It's criminal that Low-Life is not in there and that electronic music is virtually ignored. They've got Underworld's debut in there which is essential (Isn't "Dirty Guitar" the greatest New Order song that New Order never wrote?) but no Orb, Orbital or Chemical Brothers for starters? Plus a couple of Fall albums wouldn't go amiss ("This Nation's Saving Grace" and "Shiftwork"?) and (I agree) the final two Spacemen 3 albums were pure class. I could go on for hours in a Nick Hornby stylee....

They should ignore anything that's not 5 years old as it's not had time to mature beyond trendy fashion chasing journalism and gain an 'influential' tag. NME are so far up The Strokes' bottom they're now in the mouth. Last year I seem to remember that had a poll of All Time Influential artists and they had (I think) #18 Rolling Stones, #17 Strokes - it's laughable isn't it. Don't get me wrong, I think they're great, so far, but they need to make more than one album. And the way they can't pose for a band photo without one of them drawing on a cigarette really annoys me. And the NME are always suckers for bands who look like they only just got out of bed. It's easy money.

What? People here still actually take notice of and get upset by anything the bloody fucking NME write??

Jesus.....

The NME is always elderly, want-to-be-hip journo's trying to hang on to something past. They have no future...no futuristic vision, that is to say. They always bypass that part by constantly referring to nostalgia, such a shame because I believed them like the Bible in the Eighties!!

Division One without Closer, Unknown Pleasures, PCL and Technique is second league. That's real nostalgia. Those are albums that the Roses debut cannot touch, I'm sorry, but it's true.

Those albums paved the way for the Stone Roses debut album. Nobody would have taken that album seriously if not for the aforementioned. You have to take that into consideration before naming the top album ever made.

NME needs better writers that understand influential pop music. It's fading fast 'round the offices, unfortunately. Poor NME. Please rebound soon, o.k?

It isnt a bad list. But as much as I like the Stone Roses first album, no way that its better than any of the better end of hte NO/JD back catalogue.

And whoever questined the Pixies - shame on you. Frank Black is a genius and they are on the best/influential groups ever. Evety bit as much as New Order are.

If it was up to me though I would have Depeche Mode and Cure albums in there. But they have never struck a chord with the 'hip' NME jurnos.

The prob with NME is they latch onto scenes rather than bands on their own merits. But at the moment there is no futuristic vision its all this whole new contrived rock revolution rubbish, which makes me ill to be honest. All these bands trying as hard as they can to be styled Ramones clones (a la the Stokes). NME are just so predictable with their reviews generally speaking.

Whilst I like The Strokes, but hell they have hardly changed the face of music.

Cheers ALEX

• no 'Movement' either. the fools!

Originally posted by Alex Jacks It isnt a bad list. But as much as I like the Stone Roses first album, no way that its better than any of the better end of hte NO/JD back catalogue. And whoever questined the Pixies - shame on you. Frank Black is a genius and they are on the best/influential groups ever. Evety bit as much as New Order are.If it was up to me though I would have Depeche Mode and Cure albums in there. But they have never struck a chord with the 'hip' NME jurnos.The prob with NME is they latch onto scenes rather than bands on their own merits. But at the moment there is no futuristic vision its all this whole new contrived rock revolution rubbish, which makes me ill to be honest. All these bands trying as hard as they can to be styled Ramones clones (a la the Stokes). NME are just so predictable with their reviews generally speaking.Whilst I like The Strokes, but hell they have hardly changed the face of music.CheersALEX

Well put sentiments Alex! For whilst a fair number of the bands they list there have put out decent records (yes, including the likes of The Strokes and even the White Stripes) my first reaction whenever faced with this kind of predictable hype is to shut off completely - at least until all the hysteria has died down. Then I will scuttle back out and investigate the actual music at some point without fear of missing the boat so to speak (which is such a crappy notion anyway - like Barney once said, "the whole notion of being hip or not hip is a load of fucking shite", remember?).

To be fair, the Strokes record is pretty good but like you said these bands are hardly the future of music or influential are they? Ditto all the pathetic brouhaha surrounding The Stone Roses. Rather they have been INFLUENCED rather than INFLUENTIAL and have made pretty passable facsimiles of music by their mentors and, with a bit of guile and marketing nous, have succeeded in putting this music across to a new generation of fans who may well NOT have heard the original sounds from their mentors but through them, may of course backtrack and seek out those records given the chance ....

The problem with the bloody NME is that they hardly stand still for two minutes in their constant attempts to push their so-called "champion bands" into our collective consciousness and jump on every bandwagon they can. At the moment its the turn of Ozzie guitar bands again over Swedish ones and needless to say yet another bunch of "right place right time" Noo Yawkers - The Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

Big bloody deal.

And so it goes on....and on.... and on.....

Originally posted by Alex Jacks It isnt a bad list. But as much as I like the Stone Roses first album, no way that its better than any of the better end of hte NO/JD back catalogue. And whoever questined the Pixies - shame on you. Frank Black is a genius and they are on the best/influential groups ever. Evety bit as much as New Order are.If it was up to me though I would have Depeche Mode and Cure albums in there. But they have never struck a chord with the 'hip' NME jurnos.The prob with NME is they latch onto scenes rather than bands on their own merits. But at the moment there is no futuristic vision its all this whole new contrived rock revolution rubbish, which makes me ill to be honest. All these bands trying as hard as they can to be styled Ramones clones (a la the Stokes). NME are just so predictable with their reviews generally speaking.Whilst I like The Strokes, but hell they have hardly changed the face of music.CheersALEX

i totally think that Disintegration belongs in the top twenty on that list.

and no Psychocandy by The Jesus & Mary Chain? that album is incredible and highly influential, as well.

Throughout the eighties, I've dreamt about the NME as a magical newspaper with all those great bands in it that we could only dream about. I've seen it at my English class when I was 11, the teacher had brought various English papers to show the kids what do the English read. Then around the turn of the decade people were able to subscribe to it (you-or your mom-had to open an account in Austria and subscribe from there from what I can remember), so it started to circulate around the city, a few copies for the ones in the know at first. Then the war broke out, entering other countries was quite restricted, and noone's mom cared about musical papers anyway, so we missed the subscriptions for 1992. One good thing is we also missed the Suede hype. But circa Republic time first new copies surfaced, first in the reading room of the British Council (I still remember reading the Rome interview where Barney has a go with a waiter. My hands were shaking, and I was ID'd by a guard when I was entering the Council), the at the better equipped newsagents. Finally a foregin language bookstore opened and it had NME (albeit two weeks late) for everyone to buy. And you know what ? NOW IT'S CRAP !