18 MAY 1980

national smoking day?

Ehr... here is still 17. Anyway, I 'll drink a beer for you, Ian. RIP.

I seem to recall an interview with Bernard where he said that pictures of Ian were always slightly fuzzy, usually completely unintentional. I think the shots above add strength to that point of view.

He may be fuzzy in photos, but he'll never be a fuzzy memory. God bless, Ian :)

God rest your soul in peace my favourite singer and songwriter .

Rest in peace my IDOL !!!

i LIKE THAT wenorder...I CAN'T SLEEP TONIGHT...5 IN THE MORNING HERE..think i shall listen to LOVE WILL TEAR US APART. R.I.P Rocket Mick

It's still May 17th for a few more hours where I'm at, but here's to THE MAN HIMSELF. May he rest in peace.

"Procession moves on, the shouting is over, praise to the glory of loved ones now gone..."

Bad news lads .............. Seems like yesterday that Peel let us all know. Respect. RIP.

RIP Ian, you daft bugger.

In A Lonely Place

Caressing the marble and stone Love that was special for one The waste and the fever and hate How I wish you were here with me now

The body that kills and hides Matches an awful delight Warm like a dog `round your feet How I wish you were here with me now

The hangman looks `round as he waits Gullet stretches tight and it breaks Someday we will die in your dreams How I wish we were here with you now

RIP Ian, thanks for showing me something which has helped me live my life to the fullest.

Thanks mate.

RIP

Hard to believe it's been that long...

RIP

What can I say? It's a very sad day in history. RIP Ian

What can said that hasn't been said already. Still one of the lyricists of all time. And he can play some mean one chord guitar too.

Respectfully, Will

Played a little LWTUA before I left the house this morning (too bad the classic rock station I set my alarm on was playing the Eagles when I woke up, really ruined the mood)

It's also the 23rd anniversary of Mount St. Helens' explosion (always wondered about the coincidence of that one)

RIP, Ian...

i didn't realise today was the anniversy....oh well. weird timing, i just finished touching from a distance today.:\ohwell:

On the next vernal equinox Ian Curtis will have been dead for the exact amount of time as he had been alive.

I remember reading in the paper about the singer from some English punk group hanging himself the night before the band left for the tour. Never heard of the group (Dayton radio was strictly pop/AOR...still is), but when I went to my favorite record store at the time, I asked Nick about what happened and what the group was like. I don't remember what he said, but he recommended LWTUA as an introduction and I bought one of the English papers (NME? MM?) to read about it.

My oh my oh my...I was a couple of weeks shy of graduating high school and everything was ahead of me...

Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen In A Lonely Place Caressing the marble and stoneLove that was special for oneThe waste and the fever and hateHow I wish you were here with me nowThe body that kills and hidesMatches an awful delightWarm like a dog round your feetHow I wish you were here with me nowThe hangman looks round as he waitsGullet stretches tight and it breaksSomeday we will die in your dreamsHow I wish we were here with you now

God, of the countless times I've heard that song, I don't think I ever really noticed those lines "The hangman looks `round as he waits/ Gullet stretches tight and it breaks"... Yet another eerie premonition in his lyrics. simply tragic....

We have taken his place in the showdown, he observes with a pitiful eye. Farewell Ian, scoring you a beer is the first item on my itinery when I finally shuffle off me mortal coil.

Bet he'd be pissed to find out that there are strangers mourning his death. I never listened or even heard of JD until after he was dust. This year I watched and listened to Tony Wilson's commentary on 24 hour Party People. Then recorded a JD tape for my Jag since it lacks a cd player. Maybe I'll smoke a J in his honor.

RIP Ian, Thank you for the great music and the legions that heard your rocket and followed.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!

A little harsh, Mr J?!

Originally posted by David Church > Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen> In A Lonely Place > > Caressing the marble and stone> Love that was special for one> The waste and the fever and hate> How I wish you were here with me now> > The body that kills and hides> Matches an awful delight> Warm like a dog round your feet> How I wish you were here with me now> > The hangman looks round as he waits> Gullet stretches tight and it breaks> Someday we will die in your dreams> How I wish we were here with you now

God, of the countless times I've heard that song, I don't think I ever really noticed those lines "The hangman looks `round as he waits/ Gullet stretches tight and it breaks"... Yet another eerie premonition in his lyrics. simply tragic.... i agree, although the line is actually "cord stretches tight as it breaks." in fact, many of these lines are misquoted. here are the lyrics, according to both Debbie Curtis and thus the Heart&Soul box set booklet:

IN A LONELY PLACE

caressing the marble and stone love that was special for one the waste in the fever i heat how i wish you were here with me now

body that curls in and dies and shares that awful daylight warm like a dog 'round your feet how i wish you were here with me now

hangman looks 'round as he waits cord stretches tight then it breaks someday we will die in your dreams how i wish we were here with you now.

Me and my girls lit an extra candle at mass yesterday. Indulgent? maybe. So what. He graced our lives albeit for a short period of time his legacy being some of the most beautiful music ever made. We are ALL forever in his debt, the daft f*****.

Love and respect to both Natalie and Deborah. P*E*A*C*E

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit > Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!

A little harsh, Mr J?!

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit> > > A little harsh, Mr J?!

Harsh. But fair.

No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.

Perhaps Barney would have ditched him anyway irrespective of the suicide?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!

Unfortunately we have New Order but I prefer Joy Division much much much more Al,sorry :D

How I wish you were here with us now...

Hi everyone everywhere! The eightteenth of may:What a glorious day! There is one thing about it which seems to be very sick: 23 years old 18.5.(i know what beats arithmetic) What happened on 23.5.? 23 years ago now Is it sick?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.

Is it hell - some people should pause for a moment and take a reality check.

When Dave McCullough so infamously wrote "This man died for you" ... well, Curtis really didn't. And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.

Hahahahahahahahaha Perhaps Al

R.I.P IAN BUT LONG LIVE NEWORDER

Originally posted by DoN R.I.P IAN BUT LONG LIVE NEWORDER

I agree with you Don cause we still cannot raise the dead (???something must break???).

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.

...snip... And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.

True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.

So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.

Please, people, NOT the "Ceremony" thread all over again!

Originally posted by anita > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.

...snip... And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.

True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.

So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.

Violent more violent His hands cracks the chair Moves on reaction then slumps in despair

Originally posted by Monsieur Round&Round Please, people, NOT the "Ceremony" thread all over again!

No Jorge

Cause we know that Ceremony's a Joy Division song

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by anita> > True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.> > So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make.

If Bernard passed away this afternoon - heaven forbid - how many people think they would honestly be posting here 23 years from now about his passing? It sounds daft in hindsight, now doesn't it?

Different colours Different shades Over each mistakes we made

Al,

You are right.I agree with you. But JD fans are different from NO.It has a kind of a very strong emotional feeling and admiration for Kevin Curtis. At the beggining I was a massive NO fan only but after listening to JD my preference changed at once. I like NO a lot and they made me go London to see them playing those fabulous JD tracks live again last year. Songs like Regret,BLT and temptation deserve a special place in our hearts.

Like Ian said once,

forever watching love grow forever letting me know

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.

Is it hell - some people should pause for a moment and take a reality check.

When Dave McCullough so infamously wrote "This man died for you" ... well, Curtis really didn't. And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.

Now, you are mixing up two entirely different things. On the one hand, you are quite right to insist that Curtis was no martyr and shouldn't be placed on a pedestal. No "Ian Curtis = God" idolatry for me, thank you very much.

On the other hand, to suggest that the suicide of a young man and father of barely 23 was the fortuitous circumstance that led to the existence of your favourite pop band is incredibly flippant and downright insensitive - not vis-à-vis hero-worshipping fans, but to all the people that were close to that person, and who must have been devastated by the act.

Further, if it hadn't been for Ian's vision & lyrics, as well as his introducing Stephen Morris to the rest of the band, I am quite sure that the Barney & Hooky nucleus (all thrashy guitar riffs & rumbling bass lines) would have gone under with the rest of the 2nd & 3rd league punk groups that sprang up in the wake of the Sex Pistols. The surviving band members have always acknowledged that Ian Curtis was the great catalyst who showed the band its true direction and who to a great extent inspired them to achieve what they did (please not here that I'm not denying the others' contribution to the band's music). So, without Ian Curtis, there would not have been Joy Division, and hence no New Order, either.

So much for this reality check. Happy to oblige, Al.

PS: FYI, I have never seen Joy Division live, saw New Order only once, and have a mere 120 postings to this forum under my belt.

Why?

To be honest, it's blatantly clear that the rest of the band would rather have carried on as Joy Division and managed to keep their friend and bandmate on this mortal coil so that they could have enjoyed the ensuing success together. Granted, JD would probably not have been as commercially successful as NO, but that is mainly due to the considerably "poppier" approach taken by NO. I don't think the guys in NO would be so shallow as to opt for commercial success over keeping a very close friend on this earth. Still, what happened happened, and we have 2 fantastic (though widely different) musical legacies to savour.

Ian Curtis

1.Introduced : Kraftwerk, The Doors, David Bowie, Iggy POP and The Velvet Underground to the band. 2.Insulted Tony Wilson cause they hadn't put JD on the telly (it openned their door to Factory).Joined Rob Gretton to the band (very positive point) 3.He was the band conductor though was uncapable of writing no music. 4.Provided the mystery and called attention for his fits on stage.He was the person who worked most in the band. 5.He knew Steve from MasClesfield King's School. 6.He listened to Martin Zero not just complained like Barney and Hooky did. 7.And most of all, he wrote the lyrics of my favourite song - Love will tear Us apart.

Answer: No One.

Hahahaha. No one really Al. You are right again :D

Sorry to interrupt boys, I'd just like to add a RIP since I wasn't near a pc yesterday.

R.I.P. I.C.

OK, back to arguing.

Originally posted by Julijana Zitnjak Sorry to interrupt boys, I'd just like to add a RIP since I wasn't near a pc yesterday.R.I.P. I.C.OK, back to arguing.

Welcome to the war Captain Juli

How are you ? You've been missed.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > On the other hand, to suggest that the suicide of a young man and father of barely 23 was the fortuitous circumstance that led to the existence of your favourite pop band is incredibly flippant and downright insensitive - not vis-à-vis hero-worshipping fans, but to all the people that were close to that person, and who must have been devastated by the act.

Which was part of my point entirely: who here was 'close to that person' or was 'devastated' by that act?!

Answer: No One.

Again, I agree with that, but you sure expressed your point in a very clumsy way. You simply said: "Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk (sic) he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!"

What has England's national football team to do with the matter anyway?

As a second- (or is it third-?) generation fan of both groups, let me just butt in and say I would have prefered Ian to live, but I appreciate the fact that New Order carried on. I WISH I'd been around (or old enough, seeing as I was born in '79) to see JD, but that's that, you can't fuck with the time-space continuem as Star Trek and other scifi shows are quick to remind us. Nonetheless, I appreciate JD for what they were and NO for what they are.

Now, back to the match.....

:violent2:

perhaps al was a wee bit blunt, but i can see his point. i'm truly sick and tired of the deadly serious reverence (pun intended) some fans possess for their dearly-departed rock icons.

the worst example i've seen was at jim morrison's grave in paris. the site of 18-year-old hippies lighting joss sticks and candles and leaving poetry on his tombstone while weeping was so comical we had to bite our cheeks to keep from laughing. and fans vandalizing nearby graves with the 'jim ---->' signs...that's just pathetic and puerile.

a few years ago, two of my friends got kicked out of graceland for laughing too loud--the place is so hideously tacky it deserves a good laugh, but god forbid someone should let out a giggle in the home of the king! i mean, the man did die on the toilet. (for the record, my grandmother also died on the toilet and that provided my family with a bit of much-needed humour, some of it elvis-related, in our time of grief)

and kurt cobain...that memorial service they had after his death was so cringeworthy i watched it through my fingers.

sure, suicide and dying at a young age are very sad, but as my friend christie, who is a doctor (and also happens to be one of the people kicked out of graceland) says, you have to learn to laugh at the act of death otherwise, after a while, you would just stop getting up in the morning.

Originally posted by AgentWood perhaps al was a wee bit blunt, but i can see his point. i'm truly sick and tired of the deadly serious reverence (pun intended) some fans possess for their dearly-departed rock icons. the worst example i've seen was at jim morrison's grave in paris. the site of 18-year-old hippies lighting joss sticks and candles and leaving poetry on his tombstone while weeping was so comical we had to bite our cheeks to keep from laughing. and fans vandalizing nearby graves with the 'jim ---->' signs...that's just pathetic and puerile. a few years ago, two of my friends got kicked out of graceland for laughing too loud--the place is so hideously tacky it deserves a good laugh, but god forbid someone should let out a giggle in the home of the king! i mean, the man did die on the toilet. (for the record, my grandmother also died on the toilet and that provided my family with a bit of much-needed humour, some of it elvis-related, in our time of grief)and kurt cobain...that memorial service they had after his death was so cringeworthy i watched it through my fingers.sure, suicide and dying at a young age are very sad, but as my friend christie, who is a doctor (and also happens to be one of the people kicked out of graceland) says, you have to learn to laugh at the act of death otherwise, after a while, you would just stop getting up in the morning.

I agree...funnily enough my son went to see JIM's grave recently though.I had to visit the tree where MARC BOLAN crashed into but this was part of a trek round BARNES COMMON were we talked about ALL music and just happened to pass the spot when my mate said"DO YOU WANNA SEE THE TREE ".I couldn't resist.As you say DEATH is part of living.I watrched for 14 years whilst my mother slowly died from ALZEIMERS(sorry for my spelling).Now that is pretty shitty but please folks don't go too morbid on us.The music is great and that is what should really matter.And please let ALL NOOL's have freedom of speech and express their views without getting all upset.Sometimes you have to eye to eye contact to really know where a person is coming from.Relax and play some JOY DIVISION or NEW ORDER and be thankful you are alive and well and listening to their legacy.Think i need a beer now. Cheers ROCKET MICK

Originally posted by Rocket Mick > Originally posted by AgentWood> perhaps al was a wee bit blunt, but i can see his point. i'm truly sick and tired of the deadly serious reverence (pun intended) some fans possess for their dearly-departed rock icons. > > the worst example i've seen was at jim morrison's grave in paris. the site of 18-year-old hippies lighting joss sticks and candles and leaving poetry on his tombstone while weeping was so comical we had to bite our cheeks to keep from laughing. and fans vandalizing nearby graves with the 'jim ---->' signs...that's just pathetic and puerile. > > a few years ago, two of my friends got kicked out of graceland for laughing too loud--the place is so hideously tacky it deserves a good laugh, but god forbid someone should let out a giggle in the home of the king! i mean, the man did die on the toilet. (for the record, my grandmother also died on the toilet and that provided my family with a bit of much-needed humour, some of it elvis-related, in our time of grief)> > and kurt cobain...that memorial service they had after his death was so cringeworthy i watched it through my fingers.> > sure, suicide and dying at a young age are very sad, but as my friend christie, who is a doctor (and also happens to be one of the people kicked out of graceland) says, you have to learn to laugh at the act of death otherwise, after a while, you would just stop getting up in the morning.

I agree...funnily enough my son went to see JIM's grave recently though.I had to visit the tree where MARC BOLAN crashed into but this was part of a trek round BARNES COMMON were we talked about ALL music and just happened to pass the spot when my mate said"DO YOU WANNA SEE THE TREE ".I couldn't resist.As you say DEATH is part of living.I watrched for 14 years whilst my mother slowly died from ALZEIMERS(sorry for my spelling).Now that is pretty shitty but please folks don't go too morbid on us.The music is great and that is what should really matter.And please let ALL NOOL's have freedom of speech and express their views without getting all upset.Sometimes you have to eye to eye contact to really know where a person is coming from.Relax and play some JOY DIVISION or NEW ORDER and be thankful you are alive and well and listening to their legacy.Think i need a beer now. Cheers ROCKET MICK

ROCKETSENSE!

Originally posted by DoN > Originally posted by Rocket Mick> > > > Originally posted by AgentWood> > perhaps al was a wee bit blunt, but i can see his point. i'm truly sick and tired of the deadly serious reverence (pun intended) some fans possess for their dearly-departed rock icons. > > > > the worst example i've seen was at jim morrison's grave in paris. the site of 18-year-old hippies lighting joss sticks and candles and leaving poetry on his tombstone while weeping was so comical we had to bite our cheeks to keep from laughing. and fans vandalizing nearby graves with the 'jim ---->' signs...that's just pathetic and puerile. > > > > a few years ago, two of my friends got kicked out of graceland for laughing too loud--the place is so hideously tacky it deserves a good laugh, but god forbid someone should let out a giggle in the home of the king! i mean, the man did die on the toilet. (for the record, my grandmother also died on the toilet and that provided my family with a bit of much-needed humour, some of it elvis-related, in our time of grief)> > > > and kurt cobain...that memorial service they had after his death was so cringeworthy i watched it through my fingers.> > > > sure, suicide and dying at a young age are very sad, but as my friend christie, who is a doctor (and also happens to be one of the people kicked out of graceland) says, you have to learn to laugh at the act of death otherwise, after a while, you would just stop getting up in the morning.>

I agree...funnily enough my son went to see JIM's grave recently though.I had to visit the tree where MARC BOLAN crashed into but this was part of a trek round BARNES COMMON were we talked about ALL music and just happened to pass the spot when my mate said"DO YOU WANNA SEE THE TREE ".I couldn't resist.As you say DEATH is part of living.I watrched for 14 years whilst my mother slowly died from ALZEIMERS(sorry for my spelling).Now that is pretty shitty but please folks don't go too morbid on us.The music is great and that is what should really matter.And please let ALL NOOL's have freedom of speech and express their views without getting all upset.Sometimes you have to eye to eye contact to really know where a person is coming from.Relax and play some JOY DIVISION or NEW ORDER and be thankful you are alive and well and listening to their legacy.Think i need a beer now. Cheers ROCKET MICK

ROCKETSENSE!

Agreed

More like NONSENSIBLE BOLLOCKS!

Originally posted by Rocket Mick More like NONSENSIBLE BOLLOCKS!

Well, that too, but not everyone can write as well as me :p

On topic, let me just say that: both bands rule, there ARE some idiots who take this stuff about Ian dying way too seriously, these are what we call "Goth Kids" and they should be pitied. You focus on the man's death over the music he made while still alive, you miss the whole fucking point. so sayeth I...:D

Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen In A Lonely Place Caressing the marble and stoneLove that was special for oneThe waste and the fever and hateHow I wish you were here with me nowThe body that kills and hidesMatches an awful delightWarm like a dog round your feetHow I wish you were here with me nowThe hangman looks round as he waitsGullet stretches tight and it breaksSomeday we will die in your dreamsHow I wish we were here with you now

Not sure he'd approve of you changing his lyrics like that !

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen> In A Lonely Place > > Caressing the marble and stone> Love that was special for one> The waste and the fever and hate> How I wish you were here with me now> > The body that kills and hides> Matches an awful delight> Warm like a dog round your feet> How I wish you were here with me now> > The hangman looks round as he waits> Gullet stretches tight and it breaks> Someday we will die in your dreams> How I wish we were here with you now

Not sure he'd approve of you changing his lyrics like that !

My turn.

He's dead, he's been dead for a while, and it was a tragedy for his family and friends. We don't count, as we are neither family nor friends, and some of the sycophantic bollocks on here is truly nauseating. Life goes on, wailing at an altar like the sleeve of Closer doesn't change anything.

We should be thankful that the awful occurrence (and it was just that) spawned what developed into New Order. We should be thankful that we got two groundbreaking bands instead of one. That's what Al was inferring.

And I was married on May 17th this year - deliberately planned so that at the precise moment he finished the last of the old scotch bottle, I was making sure my marriage couldn't be annulled !!

I´ll marry on 25 October cause church rent is cheaper

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes > Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen> In A Lonely Place > > Caressing the marble and stone> Love that was special for one> The waste and the fever and hate> How I wish you were here with me now> > The body that kills and hides> Matches an awful delight> Warm like a dog round your feet> How I wish you were here with me now> > The hangman looks round as he waits> Gullet stretches tight and it breaks> Someday we will die in your dreams> How I wish we were here with you now

Not sure he'd approve of you changing his lyrics like that !

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > > Perhaps, but I'm also surprised people can take things to literally. And seriously. Then again, we are talking Joy Division fans here. Does everything need to be qualified with a smilie for maximal impact? If anyone's offended then I'd dread to thinking what they made of Gretton's infamous 'hanging around in the kitchen' quote, when Ian's cadaver was very much warmer.> > > > > Originally posted by little boy lost> > > > What has England's national football team to do with the matter anyway?>

Sorry, you've lost me here. Is this relating to fcuk? I often mispell profanities in mails - lessens the blow to some extent.

I see... you don't have to add smilies when you are being sarcastic, but I have to when I crack a(n admittedly corny) joke "for maximal impact". Incidentally, you almost put your finger on it: F(ootball) C(lub) U(nited) K(ingdom); that wasn't so hard, now, was it?

Originally posted by film 5 8 6 > Originally posted by David Church> > > > Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen> > In A Lonely Place > > > > Caressing the marble and stone> > Love that was special for one> > The waste and the fever and hate> > How I wish you were here with me now> > > > The body that kills and hides> > Matches an awful delight> > Warm like a dog round your feet> > How I wish you were here with me now> > > > The hangman looks round as he waits> > Gullet stretches tight and it breaks> > Someday we will die in your dreams> > How I wish we were here with you now >

God, of the countless times I've heard that song, I don't think I ever really noticed those lines "The hangman looks `round as he waits/ Gullet stretches tight and it breaks"... Yet another eerie premonition in his lyrics. simply tragic.... i agree, although the line is actually "cord stretches tight as it breaks." in fact, many of these lines are misquoted. here are the lyrics, according to both Debbie Curtis and thus the Heart&Soul box set booklet:

IN A LONELY PLACE

caressing the marble and stone love that was special for one the waste in the fever i heat how i wish you were here with me now

body that curls in and dies and shares that awful daylight warm like a dog 'round your feet how i wish you were here with me now

hangman looks 'round as he waits cord stretches tight then it breaks someday we will die in your dreams how i wish we were here with you now.

No wonder those lines seemed to strike me so much all of a sudden. I was reacting to the misquoted lyrics posted earlier. Yes, the proper words--which I know I've read before--do sound much more familiar...since the song is often on repeat in my humble abode. Thanks for the correction. At least it wasn't initially my mistake, rather my failure to cross-reference the wrong ones with the true ones.

Originally posted by Soppy Giuseppe :) And I was married on May 17th this year - deliberately planned so that at the precise moment he finished the last of the old scotch bottle, I was making sure my marriage couldn't be annulled !!

Unless bigamy....

> Perhaps, but I'm also surprised people can take things to literally. And seriously. Then again, we are talking Joy Division fans here. Does everything need to be qualified with a smilie for maximal impact? If anyone's offended then I'd dread to thinking what they made of Gretton's infamous 'hanging around in the kitchen' quote, when Ian's cadaver was very much warmer.

I'm afraid I can't smile. My second-hand grey raincoat won't let me.