but on a happier note...I just realized, I got married on 18 May...wasn't planned that way...but kind of strange...
bizarre even....
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18 MAY 1980
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
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Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!
Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!
A little harsh, Mr J?!
Originally posted by David Church > Originally posted by Tapio Juntunen> In A Lonely Place > > Caressing the marble and stone> Love that was special for one> The waste and the fever and hate> How I wish you were here with me now> > The body that kills and hides> Matches an awful delight> Warm like a dog
round your feet> How I wish you were here with me now> > The hangman looksround as he waits> Gullet stretches tight and it breaks> Someday we will die in your dreams> How I wish we were here with you now
God, of the countless times I've heard that song, I don't think I ever really noticed those lines "The hangman looks `round as he waits/ Gullet stretches tight and it breaks"... Yet another eerie premonition in his lyrics. simply tragic.... i agree, although the line is actually "cord stretches tight as it breaks." in fact, many of these lines are misquoted. here are the lyrics, according to both Debbie Curtis and thus the Heart&Soul box set booklet:
IN A LONELY PLACE
caressing the marble and stone love that was special for one the waste in the fever i heat how i wish you were here with me now
body that curls in and dies and shares that awful daylight warm like a dog 'round your feet how i wish you were here with me now
hangman looks 'round as he waits cord stretches tight then it breaks someday we will die in your dreams how i wish we were here with you now.
Me and my girls lit an extra candle at mass yesterday. Indulgent? maybe. So what. He graced our lives albeit for a short period of time his legacy being some of the most beautiful music ever made. We are ALL forever in his debt, the daft f*****.
Love and respect to both Natalie and Deborah. P*E*A*C*E
Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit > Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!
A little harsh, Mr J?!
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit> > > A little harsh, Mr J?!
Harsh. But fair.
No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!
Unfortunately we have New Order but I prefer Joy Division much much much more Al,sorry :D
Hi everyone everywhere! The eightteenth of may:What a glorious day! There is one thing about it which seems to be very sick: 23 years old 18.5.(i know what beats arithmetic) What happened on 23.5.? 23 years ago now Is it sick?
Originally posted by little boy lost No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
Is it hell - some people should pause for a moment and take a reality check.
When Dave McCullough so infamously wrote "This man died for you" ... well, Curtis really didn't. And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
Is it hell - some people should pause for a moment and take a reality check.
When Dave McCullough so infamously wrote "This man died for you" ... well, Curtis really didn't. And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.
Hahahahahahahahaha 
Perhaps Al
Originally posted by DoN R.I.P IAN BUT LONG LIVE NEWORDER
I agree with you Don cause we still cannot raise the dead (???something must break???).
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
...snip... And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.
True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.
So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.
Originally posted by anita > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
...snip... And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.
True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.
So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.
Violent more violent
His hands cracks the chair
Moves on reaction then slumps in despair 
Originally posted by Monsieur Round&Round Please, people, NOT the "Ceremony" thread all over again!
No Jorge
Cause we know that Ceremony's a Joy Division song
Originally posted by anita True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make.
If Bernard passed away this afternoon - heaven forbid - how many people think they would honestly be posting here 23 years from now about his passing? It sounds daft in hindsight, now doesn't it?
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by anita> > True, but some of us weren't a fortunate as you to have access to Joy Division before he died. JD wasn't, and still isn't, exactly a staple of American radio.> > So what if some of us aren't 1st generation fans. Give us credit for at least having the brains to find out more about JD and their music.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make.
If Bernard passed away this afternoon - heaven forbid - how many people think they would honestly be posting here 23 years from now about his passing? It sounds daft in hindsight, now doesn't it?
Different colours Different shades Over each mistakes we made
Al,
You are right.I agree with you. But JD fans are different from NO.It has a kind of a very strong emotional feeling and admiration for Kevin Curtis. At the beggining I was a massive NO fan only but after listening to JD my preference changed at once. I like NO a lot and they made me go London to see them playing those fabulous JD tracks live again last year. Songs like Regret,BLT and temptation deserve a special place in our hearts.
Like Ian said once,
forever watching love grow forever letting me know
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > No, harsh, insensitive and stupid.
Is it hell - some people should pause for a moment and take a reality check.
When Dave McCullough so infamously wrote "This man died for you" ... well, Curtis really didn't. And, in 1980, I doubt the majority of people here lamenting his passing 23 years on were even aware of the existence of one Ian Kevin Curtis.
Now, you are mixing up two entirely different things. On the one hand, you are quite right to insist that Curtis was no martyr and shouldn't be placed on a pedestal. No "Ian Curtis = God" idolatry for me, thank you very much.
On the other hand, to suggest that the suicide of a young man and father of barely 23 was the fortuitous circumstance that led to the existence of your favourite pop band is incredibly flippant and downright insensitive - not vis-à-vis hero-worshipping fans, but to all the people that were close to that person, and who must have been devastated by the act.
Further, if it hadn't been for Ian's vision & lyrics, as well as his introducing Stephen Morris to the rest of the band, I am quite sure that the Barney & Hooky nucleus (all thrashy guitar riffs & rumbling bass lines) would have gone under with the rest of the 2nd & 3rd league punk groups that sprang up in the wake of the Sex Pistols. The surviving band members have always acknowledged that Ian Curtis was the great catalyst who showed the band its true direction and who to a great extent inspired them to achieve what they did (please not here that I'm not denying the others' contribution to the band's music). So, without Ian Curtis, there would not have been Joy Division, and hence no New Order, either.
So much for this reality check. Happy to oblige, Al.
PS: FYI, I have never seen Joy Division live, saw New Order only once, and have a mere 120 postings to this forum under my belt.
To be honest, it's blatantly clear that the rest of the band would rather have carried on as Joy Division and managed to keep their friend and bandmate on this mortal coil so that they could have enjoyed the ensuing success together. Granted, JD would probably not have been as commercially successful as NO, but that is mainly due to the considerably "poppier" approach taken by NO. I don't think the guys in NO would be so shallow as to opt for commercial success over keeping a very close friend on this earth. Still, what happened happened, and we have 2 fantastic (though widely different) musical legacies to savour.
Ian Curtis
1.Introduced : Kraftwerk, The Doors, David Bowie, Iggy POP and The Velvet Underground to the band. 2.Insulted Tony Wilson cause they hadn't put JD on the telly (it openned their door to Factory).Joined Rob Gretton to the band (very positive point) 3.He was the band conductor though was uncapable of writing no music. 4.Provided the mystery and called attention for his fits on stage.He was the person who worked most in the band. 5.He knew Steve from MasClesfield King's School. 6.He listened to Martin Zero not just complained like Barney and Hooky did. 7.And most of all, he wrote the lyrics of my favourite song - Love will tear Us apart.
Originally posted by little boy lost On the other hand, to suggest that the suicide of a young man and father of barely 23 was the fortuitous circumstance that led to the existence of your favourite pop band is incredibly flippant and downright insensitive - not vis-à-vis hero-worshipping fans, but to all the people that were close to that person, and who must have been devastated by the act.
Which was part of my point entirely: who here was 'close to that person' or was 'devastated' by that act?!
Answer: No One.
Sorry to interrupt boys, I'd just like to add a RIP since I wasn't near a pc yesterday.
R.I.P. I.C.
OK, back to arguing.
Originally posted by Julijana Zitnjak Sorry to interrupt boys, I'd just like to add a RIP since I wasn't near a pc yesterday.R.I.P. I.C.OK, back to arguing.
Welcome to the war Captain Juli
How are you ? You've been missed.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by little boy lost> > On the other hand, to suggest that the suicide of a young man and father of barely 23 was the fortuitous circumstance that led to the existence of your favourite pop band is incredibly flippant and downright insensitive - not vis-à-vis hero-worshipping fans, but to all the people that were close to that person, and who must have been devastated by the act.
Which was part of my point entirely: who here was 'close to that person' or was 'devastated' by that act?!
Answer: No One.
Again, I agree with that, but you sure expressed your point in a very clumsy way. You simply said: "Am I the only one thinking: thank fcuk (sic) he topped himself, else we'd have had no New Order?!!"
What has England's national football team to do with the matter anyway?
