Doubts Even Here - Part 3

Hello all

There'a Hooky picture in ULU playing with his 6 string bass.Does anybody know which JD songs he plays with that bass? I think Ricardo told me that he played guitar in Sound of Music and Atrocity Exhibition. What about Interzone?

No, he played 4-string bass on Interzone. 6-string JD songs were Heart and Soul, The Eternal and Decades. Possibly others, but not sure.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures No, he played 4-string bass on Interzone. 6-string JD songs were Heart and Soul, The Eternal and Decades. Possibly others, but not sure.

Thanks Tim

Check inbox the link to download Temptation.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures No, he played 4-string bass on Interzone. 6-string JD songs were Heart and Soul, The Eternal and Decades. Possibly others, but not sure.

There's definitely at least one other - a review of the Paris show mentions Hooky's 6 string bass. Are you sure about 'Decades' tho'? I thought Hooky used his 4 string bass when New Order played it at the Festival Hall (tho' it was a long time ago and I may have remembered it wrong!).

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Known Pleasures No, he played 4-string bass on Interzone. 6-string JD songs were Heart and Soul, The Eternal and Decades. Possibly others, but not sure.

There's definitely at least one other - a review of the Paris show mentions Hooky's 6 string bass. Are you sure about 'Decades' tho'? I thought Hooky used his 4 string bass when New Order played it at the Festival Hall (tho' it was a long time ago and I may have remembered it wrong!).

Yeah he used his 4 string on Decades and 24 hours.

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart I think Ricardo told me that he (Hooky)played guitar in Sound of Music and Atrocity Exhibition.

Having listened to Atrocity Exhibition (live versions) a lot recently, I'm not so sure about this now. Hooky definitely played guitar on Sound of Music (ref. Here Are The Young Men), but it doesn't sound like him on Atrocity. The guitar breaks are unmistakeably Barney in places, and we know that IC didn't play guitar on it.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart I think Ricardo told me that he (Hooky)played guitar in Sound of Music and Atrocity Exhibition.

Having listened to Atrocity Exhibition (live versions) a lot recently, I'm not so sure about this now. Hooky definitely played guitar on Sound of Music (ref. Here Are The Young Men), but it doesn't sound like him on Atrocity. The guitar breaks are unmistakeably Barney in places, and we know that IC didn't play guitar on it.

Your right Hooky doesn't play guitar on Atrocity Exhibition. I have an old interveiw somewhere at home where they are talking about Various Joy Division tracks, i'll see if i can find it, mind you i haven't seen it for yearsso it might take a while

There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

Originally posted by Philip Collins There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

It's definitely the YMCA...the curtains behind Hooky and Ian are a dead giveaway!

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

It's definitely the YMCA...the curtains behind Hooky and Ian are a dead giveaway!

This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > > > Originally posted by Known Pleasures> > Originally posted by Philip Collins> There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

It's definitely the YMCA...the curtains behind Hooky and Ian are a dead giveaway!

This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

I dunno...! My money's still on Atrocity Exhibition - it was always (I think) played as the last song in the set and there was usually a bit of a pause before the song started (either that or an extended drumbeat intro) - check out the Amsterdam or Nashville Ballroom versions for example. The bassline is also (to my ears anyway!) faintly reminiscent of the Sound of Music bassline (it's a lot more intricate and lower pitch than many JD basslines). Also on the 'In Between Days' site one of the contributors (who had taped many JD shows) said he was 99% certain that Hooky and Barney swapped for Atrocity Exhibition.

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > > > Originally posted by Known Pleasures> > Originally posted by Philip Collins> There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

It's definitely the YMCA...the curtains behind Hooky and Ian are a dead giveaway!

This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

I dunno...! My money's still on Atrocity Exhibition - it was always (I think) played as the last song in the set and there was usually a bit of a pause before the song started (either that or an extended drumbeat intro) - check out the Amsterdam or Nashville Ballroom versions for example. The bassline is also (to my ears anyway!) faintly reminiscent of the Sound of Music bassline (it's a lot more intricate and lower pitch than many JD basslines). Also on the 'In Between Days' site one of the contributors (who had taped many JD shows) said he was 99% certain that Hooky and Barney swapped for Atrocity Exhibition.

The Atrocity bassline is very very reminiscent of Sound of Music (having tried to teach it to our bassist yesterday !!). It just sounds like Barney guitar work though. Maybe they will reveal all on the liner notes of the next record (like C&W/Mesh on Retro !!).

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > > > Originally posted by Known Pleasures> > Originally posted by Philip Collins> > > > Originally posted by Known Pleasures> > Originally posted by Philip Collins> There's a picture taken at the YMCA gig where Hooky's playing the guitar, so that picture's gotta be taken during 'Disorder', 'Atrocity Exhibition' or 'Insight' as we know from the various videos that he played bass on all the other tracks. I'd have thought that 'Atrocity Exhibition' was the most likely one as the other 2 songs have very 'Hooky' style basslines.

I'm not convinced that the picture has the right caption - all the songs in that set (including Autosuggestion) are Hooky bass. I know he played bass on Disorder for a fact.

It's definitely the YMCA...the curtains behind Hooky and Ian are a dead giveaway!

This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

I dunno...! My money's still on Atrocity Exhibition - it was always (I think) played as the last song in the set and there was usually a bit of a pause before the song started (either that or an extended drumbeat intro) - check out the Amsterdam or Nashville Ballroom versions for example. The bassline is also (to my ears anyway!) faintly reminiscent of the Sound of Music bassline (it's a lot more intricate and lower pitch than many JD basslines). Also on the 'In Between Days' site one of the contributors (who had taped many JD shows) said he was 99% certain that Hooky and Barney swapped for Atrocity Exhibition.

The Atrocity bassline is very very reminiscent of Sound of Music (having tried to teach it to our bassist yesterday !!). It just sounds like Barney guitar work though. Maybe they will reveal all on the liner notes of the next record (like C&W/Mesh on Retro !!).

I spent many hours trying to figure out the damn bassline from Atrocity Exhibition - it always seemed to change from version to version as well! I just manged to dig out (another!) JD interview where they were asked why Barney and Hooky swapped instruments during the set - Barney answered that he'd written the bassline and Hooky the guitar part. Does that imply that Barney would have written (and maybe played) the 2 similar sounding basslines or ripped off Hooky's Atrocity Exhibition part for Sound of Music? I think we'll be waiting a long time for the liner notes tho' - if Barney needs an autocue for his lyrics these days, he ain't gonna remember trivia like this that happened 25 years ago!

I am pretty sure Hook plays guitar in Atrocity Exhibition too.

I found an old picture from the second night at the Moonlight Club where Barney's playing bass - I'd have thought that Atrocity Exhibition was the only song from that set list where this picture could have been taken.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

That's gotta be Hooky on bass in Insight. Besides, when you listen to the Amsterdam tape, the band go straight from Insight to New Dawn Fades, without pausing.

Originally posted by Philip Collins I found an old picture from the second night at the Moonlight Club where Barney's playing bass - I'd have thought that Atrocity Exhibition was the only song from that set list where this picture could have been taken.

Without wishing to be pedantic, sure it's the second night ? They did do Sound of Music on the first night !

If you are reading this Hooky, put us all out of our misery please !!

Pretty sure it's the second night - in one of the other pictures you can see a keyboard behind Barney (no keyboards on the first night!).

Originally posted by little boy lost > Originally posted by Known Pleasures > This is geting interesting. The photos on www.incubation.ch have got Barney playing bass at Brussels 1980 (photo by Philippe Carly, no doubt about accuracy of info) - only two songs from that set list also featured at the YMCA - Insight and Atrocity Exhibition. Insight usually had an above-average pause before it was played, so my money is now starting to back Insight as a Hooky guitar track. Anyone ?

That's gotta be Hooky on bass in Insight. Besides, when you listen to the Amsterdam tape, the band go straight from Insight to New Dawn Fades, without pausing. It is Hooky on Insight,whilst looking for articles to answer some of these questions i found an interveiw with Hooky in guitar magazine where he says that it was Ian curtis that shaped his bass playing and that he spotted bass riffs like INSIGHT,love will tear us apart, 24 hours and shes lost control.

Who plays the keyboards in she's lost control 12" version live ?

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Who plays the keyboards in she's lost control 12" version live ?

This particular mass debate is going on at another thread, strangely entitled "She's Lost Control"......

Ok.Nobody convinced me yet.

OK, now's the time for me to unveil myself as a JD-geek... Hooky did play guitar on Atrocity Exhibition, as if you watch the Plan K footage on HATYM, where Hooky's playing guitar, Steve is (admittedly in slo-mo) playing the drum riff to Atrocity Exhibition (i.e. "rolling" drum pattern as opposed to Sound of Music's rather staccato beat). And Hooky definitely played 6-string on Passover (listen to the verse chords, and also the unplugging of a guitar after Passover from the Paradiso gig).

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit OK, now's the time for me to unveil myself as a JD-geek... Hooky did play guitar on Atrocity Exhibition, as if you watch the Plan K footage on HATYM, where Hooky's playing guitar, Steve is (admittedly in slo-mo) playing the drum riff to Atrocity Exhibition (i.e. "rolling" drum pattern as opposed to Sound of Music's rather staccato beat). And Hooky definitely played 6-string on Passover (listen to the verse chords, and also the unplugging of a guitar after Passover from the Paradiso gig).

Have to agree re. the Plan K footage - Steve's definitely playing a repeated drum roll pattern. If you speed the video up it's a lot easier to see. Also is that 6 string Shergold behind Hooky in the soundcheck a bass or a guitar? And what had happened to Ian's Vox teardrop? Perhaps I should get out more...

Originally posted by Philip Collins > Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit> OK, now's the time for me to unveil myself as a JD-geek... Hooky did play guitar on Atrocity Exhibition, as if you watch the Plan K footage on HATYM, where Hooky's playing guitar, Steve is (admittedly in slo-mo) playing the drum riff to Atrocity Exhibition (i.e. "rolling" drum pattern as opposed to Sound of Music's rather staccato beat). And Hooky definitely played 6-string on Passover (listen to the verse chords, and also the unplugging of a guitar after Passover from the Paradiso gig).

Have to agree re. the Plan K footage - Steve's definitely playing a repeated drum roll pattern. If you speed the video up it's a lot easier to see. Also is that 6 string Shergold behind Hooky in the soundcheck a bass or a guitar? And what had happened to Ian's Vox teardrop? Perhaps I should get out more...

The first two photos taken by Philippe Carly at the Oct. 79 Plan K gig show Ian with the Vox guitar (I bet they opened with Atmosphere that night...). Maybe he left it at Annick's place after the gig, hence him playing another guitar at the Apollo shows.

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit OK, now's the time for me to unveil myself as a JD-geek... Hooky did play guitar on Atrocity Exhibition, as if you watch the Plan K footage on HATYM, where Hooky's playing guitar, Steve is (admittedly in slo-mo) playing the drum riff to Atrocity Exhibition (i.e. "rolling" drum pattern as opposed to Sound of Music's rather staccato beat). And Hooky definitely played 6-string on Passover (listen to the verse chords, and also the unplugging of a guitar after Passover from the Paradiso gig).

That silent footage at the start ? Excellent ! I'll dig it out when I get home. I like it when a mystery is resolved. Now who's got the tape of that first Plan K show ?

Dunno who's got the Plan K footage, but it's a crime that it's never seen the light of day, cos judging by the start of HATYM the picture quality craps all over the Apollo/Effenaar footage. But I read in that Alan Hempsall (Hempstall?) article "A Day Out With Joy Division" Ian saying that they played a TV show in Belgium (apparently just after some guys making horrible noises on violins!), so I'm not sure if it was actually a TV show per se, or just footage from Plan K that was meant to be aired on that TV show. We need this footage!! Plus, those UP rehearsals in that Factory Flick at La Scala. I've also heard that *some* of the Leigh Festival was filmed, but it's not clear if JD's set was filmed (same with the 2 Rainbow dates, and there's also meant to be film of the Bains Douches gig, supposedly in the hands of some top French TV producers who aren't too keen on releasing it. Sadistic swines...)

Originally posted by Atrocity Exhibit Dunno who's got the Plan K footage, but it's a crime that it's never seen the light of day, cos judging by the start of HATYM the picture quality craps all over the Apollo/Effenaar footage. But I read in that Alan Hempsall (Hempstall?) article "A Day Out With Joy Division" Ian saying that they played a TV show in Belgium (apparently just after some guys making horrible noises on violins!), so I'm not sure if it was actually a TV show per se, or just footage from Plan K that was meant to be aired on that TV show. We need this footage!! Plus, those UP rehearsals in that Factory Flick at La Scala. I've also heard that *some* of the Leigh Festival was filmed, but it's not clear if JD's set was filmed (same with the 2 Rainbow dates, and there's also meant to be film of the Bains Douches gig, supposedly in the hands of some top French TV producers who aren't too keen on releasing it. Sadistic swines...)

So there's still unrealeased Joy Division stuff.Nice to know about this.

The chicken is still dancing