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"We actually did write Republic in a New Order fashion with myself, Steve and Gillian [Gilbert] and she really surfaced on that record in particular,” says Hook. “But Barney then came back and when he got his hands on it he re-wrote the whole thing. I would love to hear the original tracks we made.”
Does this mean the rift between him and the group is healing?
"No; not at all after what they did to me. They don't sound like New Order now and I don't think they should be using the name."
Sigh:
Andy wrote: "They don't sound like New Order now and I don't think they should be using the name."
But they DO sound like New Order now, because they ARE New Order. You are not.
And you certainly had no issue with three members using the name while Gillian was gone, you prick.
I would love to hear the Republic sessions, myself, very intriguing they basically had an album they were excited about then Bernard came in from Electronic and redid it all. Steve and/or Gillian said much the same thing at some point, I think. The fact Hooky can even give Gillian a compliment of any sort is progress.
LostSiren wrote: I would love to hear the Republic sessions, myself, very intriguing they basically had an album they were excited about then Bernard came in from Electronic and redid it all. Steve and/or Gillian said much the same thing at some point, I think. The fact Hooky can even give Gillian a compliment of any sort is progress.
To me this would be the holy grail of New Order demos - the original Republic album tracks...hopefully one day (i.e. Definitive Edition) we can hear what the album originally sounded like!
daftpunk wrote:
LostSiren wrote: I would love to hear the Republic sessions, myself, very intriguing they basically had an album they were excited about then Bernard came in from Electronic and redid it all. Steve and/or Gillian said much the same thing at some point, I think. The fact Hooky can even give Gillian a compliment of any sort is progress.
To me this would be the holy grail of New Order demos - the original Republic album tracks...hopefully one day (i.e. Definitive Edition) we can hear what the album originally sounded like!
I remember some of the press (NME) around the recording of Republic and Hooky saying along the lines of, "It's going really well...sounds just like me other band (Revenge)!" Well...not quite how it turned out.
This weekend I was listening to the "Fast Forward..." audiobook narrated by Stephen Morris, and at the end of Track 27 (may not line up with other audiobook sources?), which is about the early work on Republic before Barney and Stephen Hague came to the studio. At the end of the track, while Stephen Morris is narrating about how they lost a weeks worth of work due to a digital error and had to recreate, there is music playing that fades in and sounds a lot like it would be one of those early Republic demos...comes in while he is talking about Regret, but don't know if it's the Regret demo.
https://open.spotify.com/show/2dRftuBwWXl8Rp80AEoJeZ?si=92e27999c14d415c
I recall now seeing an image that had a handwritten list of the tentative titles of the tracks for Republic - there were about 17 names, if I recall rightly, which obviously was very intriguing given fewer ended up on the album. I think it was something that was up for auction at some point. I apologize for not having more detail. It seemed stylized enough that maybe it was a very crude Saville piece, but I just paged thru his books Designed by, Peter Saville Estate 1-127 and a limited edition book he put out on New Order and Joy Diuvision one sheets (posters) and no luck there.
I wonder what happened to this, it was supposed to come out this september.
LostSiren wrote: I recall now seeing an image that had a handwritten list of the tentative titles of the tracks for Republic - there were about 17 names, if I recall rightly, which obviously was very intriguing given fewer ended up on the album. I think it was something that was up for auction at some point. I apologize for not having more detail. It seemed stylized enough that maybe it was a very crude Saville piece, but I just paged thru his books Designed by, Peter Saville Estate 1-127 and a limited edition book he put out on New Order and Joy Diuvision one sheets (posters) and no luck there.
Is this it?:
https://www.paulstolper.com/store/artworks/353-peter-saville-working-title-2004/
perspexorange wrote:
Is this it?:
https://www.paulstolper.com/store/artworks/353-peter-saville-working-title-2004/
Oh very good.
Now that the prospect of a Republic Box Set is more real than it was in the past, I'm curious about these. I suspect someone has worked this out before.
The ticked tracks presumably all made it on to the album, and some are obvious (Regret, Chemical, Spooky One). I seem to remember "Techno" being discussed before, but I can't remember which track it is. I guess Gillian's 12 String = Avalanche. Big Chord might be Times Change?
If we can match 'em all up, then I guess we know the titles that didn't make it. Which is what's (potentially) the most intriguing.
Debaser wrote:
perspexorange wrote:
Is this it?:
https://www.paulstolper.com/store/artworks/353-peter-saville-working-title-2004/
Oh very good.
Now that the prospect of a Republic Box Set is more real than it was in the past, I'm curious about these. I suspect someone has worked this out before.
The ticked tracks presumably all made it on to the album, and some are obvious (Regret, Chemical, Spooky One). I seem to remember "Techno" being discussed before, but I can't remember which track it is. I guess Gillian's 12 String = Avalanche. Big Chord might be Times Change?
If we can match 'em all up, then I guess we know the titles that didn't make it. Which is what's (potentially) the most intriguing.
Also intrigued by the big +3 at the end which suggests there were 3 more ideas that had yet to make the board?
And also - any ideas what the Hook / DC / SH boxes are in the bottom right?
There's a thread somewhere on the forums where we discussed working titles.
Some of these ones were confirmed by Johnny James:
Regret = Regret Heavy Oboe One = Times Change Identify = Young Offender Big Chord = Ruined In A Day Chemical = Special (probably; I guess it depends when this list was drawn up. Presumably they changed the title somewhere along the line) Ick One = Vicious Circle Spooky One = Spooky Techno = This is either World (which was called 'Techno 1' or 'Tech 2') or Chemical (which was called 'Techno 2')
So that leaves:
Backwards, Seagull, Shedded, Gillian's 12-String, Desperate, Shoot To Kill, 16th Of The 9th, White Diamond, Moderation
By the process of elimination, some of these names will presumably relate to Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Avalanche and either World or Chemical.
Incidentally, other apparent working titles from this period are:
Carry On New Order = Republic (anyone know where this working title was mentioned? Sounds like something Steve would drop into an interview). New Guitar One = Everyone Everywhere Misfit = Chemical Classical One/Unforgiven = Avalanche
perspexorange wrote:
Heavy Oboe One = Times Change
Oh that says ...oboe...Ok, I couldn't read that.
perspexorange wrote:
So that leaves:
Backwards, Seagull, Shedded, Gillian's 12-String, Desperate, Shoot To Kill, 16th Of The 9th, White Diamond, Moderation
By the process of elimination, some of these names will presumably relate to Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Avalanche and either World or Chemical.
You're not convinced by my suggestion that Gillian's 12 String = Avalanche?
Debaser wrote:
You're not convinced by my suggestion that Gillian's 12 String = Avalanche?
What are you basing the suggestion on? I don't hear any 12 string guitar on it (I don't think!)
Of the other tracks - only Everyone Everywhere sounds like it was written on guitar
Debaser wrote:
You're not convinced by my suggestion that Gillian's 12 String = Avalanche?
It's not that I'm not convinced; it's just that I'm only quoting ones where we pretty much know they're correct (i.e. confirmed by JJ or others connected to the band).
You could well be right. :-)
Incidentally, I wonder what the 'ticks' ('checks', for you Americans out there) next to certain tracks are.
Looking at it, it might well signal tracks that were to make it onto the LP. For all of the ticked ones, we know which tracks they are and we know they appeared on the LP. The unticked ones presumably didn't make the cut, including Ick One/Vicious Circle.
If this is correct, this would signify that Desperate must be one of the unidentified LP tracks (Everyone Everywhere, Liar, Avalanche and either World or Chemical).
Debaser wrote:
The ticked tracks presumably all made it on to the album, and some are obvious (Regret, Chemical, Spooky One). I seem to remember "Techno" being discussed before, but I can't remember which track it is.
Hmm. Sorry. I see you noticed the ticks before me. My bad.
perspexorange wrote:
Is this it?:
https://www.paulstolper.com/store/artworks/353-peter-saville-working-title-2004/
Yes! Thank you for finding it, was kicking myself for not having kept a copy when I saw it.
LostSiren wrote: I would love to hear the Republic sessions, myself, very intriguing they basically had an album they were excited about then Bernard came in from Electronic and redid it all. Steve and/or Gillian said much the same thing at some point, I think. The fact Hooky can even give Gillian a compliment of any sort is progress.
Great thread people, I'd be very excited by the Republic demos surfacing for the definitive edition or otherwise. But given that he's not part of them, do you think Barney would green-light their release?
M1 wrote:
LostSiren wrote: I would love to hear the Republic sessions, myself, very intriguing they basically had an album they were excited about then Bernard came in from Electronic and redid it all. Steve and/or Gillian said much the same thing at some point, I think. The fact Hooky can even give Gillian a compliment of any sort is progress.
Great thread people, I'd be very excited by the Republic demos surfacing for the definitive edition or otherwise. But given that he's not part of them, do you think Barney would green-light their release?
Hopefully not! I have to think there must be at least another track or two (maybe b-side or soundtrack instrumental somewhere) that one or more members didn't really contribute anything to.
Hooky had a Republic demo tape up for bid in one of his auctions a few years back but it was pulled last-minute...I was chomping at the bit to win that one!
FYI: The reason for the name of this thread is simply that "Peter Hook Interview" has been overused and was rejected as spam.
