The United States of America

America has given us Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Pixies. It can't be all bad.

By the way your Holiness, isn't "somewhat bollocks" a fairly "no opinion" type answer?

Originally posted by death of art America has given us Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Pixies. It can't be all bad.By the way your Holiness, isn't "somewhat bollocks" a fairly "no opinion" type answer?

well, I wanted it to be more than an either-or thing, but without a distinct neutral option.

Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> If catching Saddam is Bush's crowning achievment in response to 9/11, then Bush is a miserable failure; Saddam, whatever his vices, has no link whatsoever to 9/11. But as long as Bush has Saddam to distract us, we can all forget that bin Laden is still out there.> > As for attacks stateside, they've been coming daily-- attacks by Bush and Ashcroft on America and the liberties for which she stands.> > But as long as we've got Saddam-- who had nothing to do with 9/11-- what's the loss of something as trivial as our civil liberties?

Perhaps you could tells us which pieces of legislation that the President and the AG have crafted and passed that have "attacked" our civil liberities? Oh wait, there's that whole "separation of powers" thing....... b]

The so-called "USA PATRIOT ACT." Probably the most anti-American piece of legislation ever.

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr > Originally posted by Michael McDermott> > > > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> > If catching Saddam is Bush's crowning achievment in response to 9/11, then Bush is a miserable failure; Saddam, whatever his vices, has no link whatsoever to 9/11. But as long as Bush has Saddam to distract us, we can all forget that bin Laden is still out there.> > > > As for attacks stateside, they've been coming daily-- attacks by Bush and Ashcroft on America and the liberties for which she stands.> > > > But as long as we've got Saddam-- who had nothing to do with 9/11-- what's the loss of something as trivial as our civil liberties?>

Perhaps you could tells us which pieces of legislation that the President and the AG have crafted and passed that have "attacked" our civil liberities? Oh wait, there's that whole "separation of powers" thing....... b]

The so-called "USA PATRIOT ACT." Probably the most anti-American piece of legislation ever.

Again, based on our system of government, how did the President (besides his signing the legislation) and the AG craft and pass the Patriot Act???

Again, based on our system of government, how did the President (besides his signing the legislation) and the AG craft and pass the Patriot Act???

Technically, you're right...they didn't actually do the legislating. But it's still their legislation. The sheep in Congress rolled over and played dead when presented with that bill. You might want to check Asscroft's (that's what has staff calls him) schedule to see what he's been up to lately-- traveling the country, defending PATRIOT 1 and promoting PATRIOT 2.

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> > > > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol> > Originally posted by Buffer Low> The people of America are just fine, it's the people they elect into power that are the problem.

Like Clinton twice, Papa Bush, and Reagan. The US has not had a good president since Nixon's first term, but we all know what happened at the start of his second term. ;)

Wow, someone who's Republican (or at least right-wing) saying Reagan wasn't a good president? You are strange, Tristan :D

Bubba could've been great, if the Repubs hadn't been so interested in his getting some pussy on the side (can you say "repressed"?). One of the great tragedies of the 1990s is, while Osama was planning his little surprise for us, the full measure and weight of various intelligence agencies was directed at "who the President slept with, and don't spare the naughty details".

Bubba was never great; I mean as Arkansas governor, his crowning achievement was taking his state's education from 50th to fooking 49th; Clinton was merely a cool personality, but a rather mediocre president. He rode the climbing economy stemming from the last year of Papa Bush. The only thing I liked about Clinton was that the news was never boring with him around.

Reagan was just another character as well. The problem with Clinton is that he could have done so much, but he was to gutless to do anything. He did fuck all and fucked around, a big dissapointment.

Originally posted by Buffer Low > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> > > > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol> > Originally posted by Buffer Low> The people of America are just fine, it's the people they elect into power that are the problem.

Like Clinton twice, Papa Bush, and Reagan. The US has not had a good president since Nixon's first term, but we all know what happened at the start of his second term. ;)

Wow, someone who's Republican (or at least right-wing) saying Reagan wasn't a good president? You are strange, Tristan :D

Bubba could've been great, if the Repubs hadn't been so interested in his getting some pussy on the side (can you say "repressed"?). One of the great tragedies of the 1990s is, while Osama was planning his little surprise for us, the full measure and weight of various intelligence agencies was directed at "who the President slept with, and don't spare the naughty details".

Bubba was never great; I mean as Arkansas governor, his crowning achievement was taking his state's education from 50th to fooking 49th; Clinton was merely a cool personality, but a rather mediocre president. He rode the climbing economy stemming from the last year of Papa Bush. The only thing I liked about Clinton was that the news was never boring with him around.

Reagan was just another character as well. The problem with Clinton is that he could have done so much, but he was to gutless to do anything. He did fuck all and fucked around, a big dissapointment. But at least Clinton's many scandals of a sexual nature made for great entertainment (for a little while, anyway).

While I found the Clinton Sex Scandals entertaining, even to the point of asking my wife to gain 70 lbs and get a Monica haircut, the Democrats lost a lot of Senate seats and the House under his reign.

Bitch all you want about Bush but the fact is Clinton killed Democratic power and left the door open for Shrub's Agenda. Gore could not even win his home State. Look at California, the Democrats got their ass kicked again by a steriod snorting nazi.

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr > > > Again, based on our system of government, how did the President (besides his signing the legislation) and the AG craft and pass the Patriot Act???

Technically, you're right...they didn't actually do the legislating. But it's still their legislation. The sheep in Congress rolled over and played dead when presented with that bill. You might want to check Asscroft's (that's what has staff calls him) schedule to see what he's been up to lately-- traveling the country, defending PATRIOT 1 and promoting PATRIOT 2.

So what does that say about all those members of the Democrat party (besides folks like Rep. Zel Miller and Sen. John Breaux who would have voted for it anyway) that voted for it?

Originally posted by twist While I found the Clinton Sex Scandals entertaining, even to the point of asking my wife to gain 70 lbs and get a Monica haircut, the Democrats lost a lot of Senate seats and the House under his reign.Bitch all you want about Bush but the fact is Clinton killed Democratic power and left the door open for Shrub's Agenda. Gore could not even win his home State. Look at California, the Democrats got their ass kicked again by a steriod snorting nazi.

All I want is decent education for my children, keep my guns, keep my cars and keep my cash. I really do not to replace big liberal government (Demos) with Big Christian Socialism (GOP). I do not understand why it is ok to have school kids learn about Islam in school yet not ok to post the 10 Commandments in a court house. I do not understand why people bitch about the $$ spent on the military when they ignore all the money wasted on welfare that has not solved the problem of poverty, drugs and discrimination and has created generations, yes plural, of impoverished people.

Now why the Democrats cannot find a candidate that can take Shrub out is beyond me. Maybe it suggests that the Democrats are lost in outdated ideology and special interests. Just as bad as the GOP but at least I will not be taxed to death.

Originally posted by twist I do not understand why it is ok to have school kids learn about Islam in school yet not ok to post the 10 Commandments in a court house.

Learning _about_ something is different from proclaiming the truth of something, no? Would you be OK with posting 'allah is great, there is no god but allah and muhammed is his messenger' in a court house? That would surely be a closer parallel.

I want a 'good and bad in parts' choice, dammit! Nothing desperately wrong with the USA other than it's too damn powerful. It behaves like a self serving bully, but then so would any other nation with that much power, and many would be worse.

The only thing that can stop the USA running amok is the USA. Don't look to the utterly hopeless, corrupt, fighting-like-cats-in-a-sack EU to provide any counterweight.