Liberation

Today it's April 25, the celebration of 49 years since Italy got liberated from the nazi-fascist cunts, thanks to your and our grandfathers. My grandfather came with the wing of the Italian army which stayed loyal to the king, together with the English army they liberated Bologna. My grandmother (who was only 16 years old when she joined the partisans) and her brother came down from the mountains where they had been fighting for two years and liberated Parma before the American army arrived. Other relatives didn't make it, having been killed, one of them on April 24, just one day before the war ended... it's weird to think for them the Liberation never came, the war never ended... that's why we must not forget them and defend our democracy. Shame we still have Berlusconi, ruling with the party which came from the remains of the party which came from the remains of the Fascist party, though... I just hope they'll fuck off soon, starting with the forthcoming European elections.

diddnt he come out with something along the lines of "the fascists werent all that bad" about a year ago?

berlusconi is indeed a cunt

There`ll be some big parties next year then. :)

I thought this was going to be a thread about the Pet Shop Boys.

Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be I thought this was going to be a thread about the Pet Shop Boys.

Since when has that ever happened?

Originally posted by Mick Aneworderfan that's why we must not forget them and defend our democracy..

Yea, you right Mick. I remember, the rather that my grandfather was killed fighting on Monte Casino against germans. His name is Sobol and I (as a fucking grandson) have never been on his grave (there is a polish cemetery).

Happy Liberation Day!

Churchill and the Allies really underestimated the Germans in the Italian Campaign. One long tough struggle.

how queer (in a fast show voice). ive just popped online after watching a program on this very subject,the allied invasion of italy ect. it didnt sound very pleasant and what part of any war does eh?. monte casino was touched upon along with many other lowlights of the italy campaign. the most pleasing thing out of all that horror is that italy has grown to be one of the most vibrant nations in the eu. but come to think of it even a fleeting brush with facism couldnt keep a place like italy down

Originally posted by Mick Aneworderfan Today it's April 25, the celebration of 49 years since Italy got liberated from the nazi-fascist cunts, thanks to your and our grandfathers.My grandfather came with the wing of the Italian army which stayed loyal to the king, together with the English army they liberated Bologna. My grandmother (who was only 16 years old when she joined the partisans) and her brother came down from the mountains where they had been fighting for two years and liberated Parma before the American army arrived. Other relatives didn't make it, having been killed, one of them on April 24, just one day before the war ended... it's weird to think for them the Liberation never came, the war never ended... that's why we must not forget them and defend our democracy.Shame we still have Berlusconi, ruling with the party which came from the remains of the party which came from the remains of the Fascist party, though...I just hope they'll fuck off soon, starting with the forthcoming European elections.

Amen.

And Happy liberation day! Buona festa!

In Europe, right wingers seem to be weakening greatly in Spain and France, but Italy and Austria still have rather suspect governments. I don't think either of these governments are precursors to the fascist wars of the past, but we can never know surely what will happen in the future.

Fascism is much more an everyday behavior, rather that a certain kind of goverment (which kind of goverment is usually supported by a not so little percentage of the people, very usually coming from the lower classes) - not all fascist regimes in rescent history were too similar to each other, some even fighted each other (i just want to remind the italian - greek war in 1940 while Greece had a fascist goverment too). I see and hear everyday ppl who claim that they are 100% democrats and liberals saying things like "we dont need foreigners, cos they re bad for the country", "the other nations envy our nation, cos its the fuckin best" "global communication is a troyan that will ruin our nation's soul" and crap like that... These kind of thoughts, are very widely spread im afraid, much more that is refelected on election results, and in my opinion, it only takes the "right" circumstances to become some kind of majority, or a very strong minority. What history has tought us so far, is to avoid voting the fascist parties, and this is the half lesson. We havent learned yet, that we should fight fascist or crypto fascist behavior with what we have as our best advanatage: Mind, common sense and conversation. Thats it if we dont wanna end up ruled by ppl who will never tell us that they are fascists, they ll surely ack like one, having substancial public support.

(as for feline's previous deleted post, that's what happens when 2 ppl use the same computer and one of them is clever enough to talk about politics and too dumb not to notice that he's signed in under the wrong member name )

Clockwork C: diddnt he come out with something along the lines of "the fascists werent all that bad" about a year ago?

*Oh yes, he's a big asshole mouth, every week there's a gem... He also recently said "Unfortunately I'm not a dictator" (not joking at all) and what about blaming the Euro for the price risings... Euro is a unit measure, just like kilos or metres... blaming the Euro for the price rise is just like blaming the metre for being too short... there were exact rules for the currency conversion from Lira to Euro, but the traders didn't respect the rules and Berlusconi did fuck all to control and stop them from taking advantage of the consumers... of course, the most of them vote for him so they can pay less taxes (that's why the welfare is fucked up), the greedy bastards...

SP1: There`ll be some big parties next year then.

*Yeah, if we're allowed to celebrate again... Berlusconi said we have too many festivities and some must be abolished to increase production (guess which will be the first?). What a cunt: actually the production is low because there's low demand (because of loosing competitivity to the foreign markets like the Far East, where the hard exploit of workers allows lower costs), so increasing an unrequested production would be of no fookin use!

Blue Eyed Boy: I thought this was going to be a thread about the Pet Shop Boys.

*Eh eh, was thinking about the title of the thread and that soft synth pop song came to mind... :)

Arek: Yea, you right Mick. I remember, the rather that my grandfather was killed fighting on Monte Casino against germans.

*Respect to your grandfather and thanks for the info. I didn't know Polish soldiers were involved in the Italian liberation...

Mike Powell: ive just popped online after watching a program on this very subject,the allied invasion of italy ect. it didnt sound very pleasant and what part of any war does eh?.

*The horror of that war was it became a civil war... War is already a tragedy, but a civil war is a true fookin nightmare... a partisan relative of my grandmother was killed by his fascist cousin living next door...

Mike Powell: the most pleasing thing out of all that horror is that italy has grown to be one of the most vibrant nations in the eu.

*That's until Berlusconi came to power ;) We became a vibrant nation thanks to two main factors: The Marshall Plan which helped a lot rebuilding the nation and relaunching the economy (thank you Uncle Sam), and how that progress was channelled into a developed welfare state which much improved the lifestyle of all the citizens. The same welfare Berlusconi is knocking down...

Almanso: this liberation date should be remembered not only in Italy, now that we have a latent fascism going on in the whole world. we must learn from history in order to not repeat the same sad episodes all over again. it depends on us to keep the history alive.

*Of course I agree. I hope there are similar celebrations in other countries... do you celebrate the end of Videla's cruel dictatorship? That was quite a nightmare too, I remember when I was a kid hearing horrible stories about the crimes of that dictator...

Tristan Jayol: In Europe, right wingers seem to be weakening greatly in Spain and France, but Italy and Austria still have rather suspect governments. I don't think either of these governments are precursors to the fascist wars of the past, but we can never know surely what will happen in the future.

*The situation is Spain and France are different: the centre-right area is more moderated, more liberal, Chirac and Aznar can't be compared to Berlusconi at all. In those countries, the extreme right wings are isolated, though the rise of the National Front in France is worrying. Anyway the recent success of the socialists in both countries are good signs. Also, in Austria, yesterday the Socialists have won the elections! Congratulations to our Austrian mates... now Haider and his closet nazis can fuck off. I don't think anything will happen in Italy which will be comparable to the past. It's all very different. It seems Berlusconi is just trying to impose extreme capitalism, he's not very different from Margaret Thatcher. He also has a huge control on the media and power in many areas of the economy, so his government can be thought as authoritarian (in a South American or Far Eastern kind of way), but not totalitarian. The post-fascist right wing seems to have accepted democracy and rejected the worst errors of their fathers, but the process seemed a bit suspect. Hadn't Berlusconi came on the scene looking for an allied force (and the post-fascists were the only available), nothing would have happened. The funny thing is the only positive aspect of fascism (which for everything else of course remains totally wrong) was it started the welfare state in Italy, which was virtually absent before. Some of the most important basic institutions of the welfare were founded by Mussolini and are still working now. So Berlusconi looks even worse than him on this subject.

Elias: What history has tought us so far, is to avoid voting the fascist parties, and this is the half lesson. We havent learned yet, that we should fight fascist or crypto fascist behavior with what we have as our best advanatage: Mind, common sense and conversation. Thats it if we dont wanna end up ruled by ppl who will never tell us that they are fascists, they ll surely ack like one, having substancial public support

*This is a really intelligent thought, Elias. Actually strict Fascism is a separate thing, there are some essential elements, like the totalitarian organization of the state. But the crypto-fascist behaviour you're talking about must definitely be fought. See Berlusconi's lies, like those I mentioned earlier about the Euro and the low production. He fookin knows he's lying, he's an idiot, but not that much. He's very clever at this, he's using a Nazi strategy which was represented by Goebbels in this phrase: "Tell a lie a thousand times and it'll become a truth". That's what he's trying to do, to justify all his faults by telling a lot of lies to the people, many of which are ignorant enough to miss the fact he's totally fooling them. Basing your consent on lies exploiting the ignorance of the common people is definitely a fascist strategy.

One thing about the political climate in Europe, the best thing is for there not to be any extremists, whether they are fascist or socialists. Both extremes hurt Europe in the past.

Originally posted by almanso you want to laugh? we remember the day they broke in, 24thMarch1976. this is a weird country!.

Just fookin wait, are you sayin you remember that as a tragedy, like Israel remembers the Holocaust, or are you sayin you still actually... gulp... CELEBRATE it?

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol One thing about the political climate in Europe, the best thing is for there not to be any extremists, whether they are fascist or socialists. Both extremes hurt Europe in the past.

*Of course when we talk about socialists we're talking about Western European social democrats. They have been at the government in every European country sooner or later, they did their good and bad choices, but none of them had made anything extreme. These socialist parties don't refuse capitalism, but have just tried to balance it with welfare state to improve the conditions of the people, sometimes with excellent results. These socialists have absolutely nothing in common with the communists, especially if we talk about the former Eastern Europe parties. I'm just talking about parties like SDI or DS in Italy, PS in France, PSOE in Spain, SPD in Germany etc. These parties can usually be identified bcause they have the rose of the European Socialist Party in their logos: http://www.eurosocialists.org/

I think the best equilibrium of economy and politics was reached under SDPD in Germany in 1966-1974 (The Willy Brandt era). It was a genuinely democratic model. It's ironical now that Germany has been paying for that ideological 'paradise' for over decades now.