Warning to NOOLers: eBay/PayPal Nightmare

I know many NOOLers regularly purchase items from eBay using the services of PayPal. My eBay/PayPal history dates back about five years, over which time I've had only minor problems. Until now.

About six weeks ago I accepted US$2500 via PayPal for an eBay auction for 8 pairs collectible Nike Dunks, won by a verified buyer in South Korea. I shipped the goods to the buyer with EMS international tracking. I was extremely courteous to the buyer, I even gave him a few weeks to get his finances together to pay. I took a huge amount of care to ship the shoes to him in perfect condition.

Three weeks ago I received advice from PayPal that the goods were paid for with a fraudulent credit card.

DESPITE me providing PRECISE delivery details via the tracking number, PayPal have now advised that their investigations are over and that I owe the $2500 back to them, without my goods being returned. WHAT? They have proof of receipted delivery, I told them. Of course, actually getting through to them is half the problem because whenever you email them they hit you with USELESS cut and paste style responses. How foolish of me to expect some personal assistance for major fraud to one of their loyal members, facilitated by holes in their business operations.

Anyway, I've now drawn a blank with my complaints. They "have my tracking information on file" but refuse to do anything more to help me out because I sent the goods to an "Unconfirmed Address". And that's it. My bad luck apparently. The trouble is, PayPal - you deceitful low life scum - in your conditions it clearly states that any goods sent outside of the US CANNOT ever be classified as CONFIRMED. So in other words, what you're saying is that anyone who receives payment for goods and ships outside the US is at MAJOR PERSONAL RISK of owing your stinking organisation the entire sum back with ZERO help to retrieve the goods.

As it stands now:

* I have no goods * I owe PayPal US$2500 * The buyer refuses to answer emails * PayPal will do nothing further to help me even though they have proof of delivery

Needless to say I am furious. The guy in South Korea is a pitiful excuse for a human being and PayPal, well, they're just parasites aren't they.

Naturally I'm pursuing legal angles to retrieve something from the situation but due to the international nature of the transaction, things look grim. If I don't pay PayPal the balance in the next few weeks, they send debt collectors and my credit record takes a hit. They have me by the balls.

And the coup de grace is they've also hit me with a US$20 fee for causing them all these problems.

I recommend NOOLers:

Consider whether you really want to use PayPal for international (ex US) transactions, you have NO recourse if things go wrong. How PayPal can possibly be allowed to broker international financial transfers under these terms is UNBELIEVABLE. They are currently being attacked by several politicians in the US for their questionable business practise and sites are appearing on the Internet like www.paypalsucks.com due to the thousands of complaint cases against them. BEWARE!

:\pimp3:

Oh yeah, if any of the South Korean NOOLers are reading and would like to help me out, please get in touch. I could use some assistance communicating with authorities in your country. Cheers.

:\pimp3:

Must admit I use paypal a lot , though I limit sales to the US and a couple of Eurozones , at present all is well , but thanks for the points you have raised.

Good luck , with whatever steps you have to take

Gary

...heavy stuff - that's why I refuse to wind up my international business with paypal...

...best wishes Simon, for becoming a good end of the story...

The Saviour

Originally posted by #41 so...uhm...what are they going to do if you don't give them 2500 bucks???this really makes me rethink my doing business with these clowns. pay-pal is my preferred way to pay for my e-bay stuff, but if they are gonna treat you like this, why would I want to give them anymore business???

They give me a few weeks to pay, then they chase me down with a local debt collecting agency apparently.

I'd really prefer my long-term credit record not be affected by any this.

You try to do the right thing and you get kicked in the ass.

If you live in the US you're better protected by PayPal, but read the fine print. You're by no means safe.

:\pimp3:

this is weird, Paypal claims to have no liability at all?

it sounds like Paypal is acting more like a COD agent. but with a COD shipper like UPS, USPS, FedEx you are given a choice of requesting a secure form of payment like a money order or maybe some other shippers might allow official electronic money transfers. with Paypal it is implied that the money is an official electronic transfer and they give you no other option other than not using Paypal... so Paypal is really not much different than getting a personal check in terms of liability? this sounds messy and scary.

so what they are saying is that they do a basic credit check, but they are not liable if they F.U. couldn't you charge that they were incompetent at checking the foreign credit card and therefore should not be accepting cards in this situation, since they were acting as an agent for you?

That's a horror. Good luck man!

Bloody hell, Depthy - what an absolute disgrace, I've been a user of PayPay before as well, but this tale scres the shite out of me. All I can do is offer condolences, however the LadyBear (fiance now) is very familiar (as part of her job) with the laws regarding credit histories in Australia, feel free to email (you should still have my addy somewhere) and I'm happy to relay her any of your questions. Take it easy and feel free to drop a line if need be CTB

CTB please drop me an email.

Not sure that I have your address anymore as my last PC had a major HD failure a while back.

Your offer of credit advice is gratefully received. I'm on the verge of shelling out for legal.

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by pumped full of drugs this is weird, Paypal claims to have no liability at all?

That's right, no liability.

Apparently they operate outside of established US financial regulations. Their rogue methods are creating backlash against their company in the US. They're inundated with complaints like mine. Politicians are having their say. Think eventually they'll be forced to comply with federal laws and operate fairly.

Unfortunately I wasn't aware of this and as I said, I've had plenty of successful transactions with them in the past.

I can only stress again (especially if you live outside the US), if you're partaking in a big dollar Internet transaction, please consider alternative payment methods. Money orders, bank deposits, escrow services, etc. PayPal is fraught with danger and will not offer you any support even when you are 100% innocent.

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by I don't want to be just a number in Society It's the second time I hear ugly stories about PayPal, which surprised me at first because I personally never had any problem in the past.As a lawyer, my recommandations to you would be to:1) Close your PayPal Account at once;2) Contact your credit card company (VISA, MasterCard) and tell them to refuse any charge being made by PayPal on your credit card;3) Let PayPal try to sue you after that;4) If by any chance they find a way to write something on your credit record, then you should definitly take legal actions against both PayPal and the credit record company.

Cheers Seb, I'm taking this all on board.

Thanks for the support everyone.

:\pimp3:

Does she sleep all during the winter?

Not sure it'll help but I look the cut of your jib and wish you weren't in this obviously fraught situation.