HERE WE GO AGAIN.
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Possibly chaos causers, news seems to indicate no casualties...
Let's hope there will be no more. I'm appalled to see this happening again, and this on the day that the victims of two weeks ago are being remembered during memorials.
It's kind of sad that this was no surprise when I heard it. Over here, all we've had so far is 9/11, and that was four years ago. The Brits have truly had a rough month, even if this turns out to be "less" than the previous attack. My sympathies to any casualties and all those caught up in this madness.
a bus has apparently been blown up. No casualties, but it seems as though a few glazing business will be making good money.
For once, it doesnt seem to be the work of islamic terrorists, probably 'pranksters' or sickheads.
Uncle Liam wrote: a bus has apparently been blown up. No casualties, but it seems as though a few glazing business will be making good money.
For once, it doesnt seem to be the work of islamic terrorists, probably 'pranksters' or sickheads.
There was a shot on CNN just now of a guy being taken away in handcuffs from Downing Street, he looked as white as me. I don't know if he's connected to the whole situation, but you may be onto something about sick copycat fuckers.
Side note: I happened to be flipping past "The 700 Club" while checking on credible news about this, and Pat Robertson was on there asking "why don't the British take this more seriously?" More seriously? How about holding off on how serious the British are taking it before all the facts are in.
of course, just because he's white doesnt mean he isnt islamic. But i stick with my original theory.
BBC have reported a man arrested near downing street.
Even in stockport we've been having non stop sirens.
Uncle Liam wrote: of course, just because he's white doesnt mean he isnt islamic. But i stick with my original theory.
Well, this guy that was led away could have just been a hooligan hanging out around the gates, there's just no word right now on it.
The Austrailian PM is on now (he was meeting with Blair), and saying that his country supports Britain. As if people would expect him to say something different like "up yours" or whatever?
Anyway, here's hoping there's some live suspects that can be tried for the attack this time around.
Looks it was a serious attempt to repeat the carnage of a couple of weeks ago - the detonators didn't set off the explosives or the explosives weren't properly set up.
Good news in a way...
Looks like even beter than that, they've fucked up good and proper and given the police more evidence than they could ever have hoped for.
They plugged some fucker this morning. He may have been totally innocent........but I make the same judgement as I did when the army shot up some joyriders here....if a member of the security forces points a gun at you and says stop.....you stop, even if you are the most innocent man alive, you stop, if you don't...well at best, it's just Darwin removing you from the gene pool.
Sending the wheelbarrow ( poor bastard's been shite bored since the IRA calmed their knickers) into some house too.
Was revolted by the BBC yesterday showing messages like "we're frightened"....why not just stick a big neon sign saying "congratulations you've won".
The sad thing is, that from what I've been hearing, the sorts of devices used are real jolly roger cookbook jobs, any fucked up, god struck, moron kid can knock em up in a second. Detonators are tougher. Ironic it was the explosive that failed, mainly cos it degrades badly, they seem to think the bad guys made a big batch for their last little show and wanted to run off to god before it went inert.
They've boned themselves good and proper, I only hope al-q isn't as well organised as we've been led to believe. A well structured terrorist network relies on each cell having no knowledge of the others, if that's not the case we may already have enough to effectively castrate them for a while in the UK.
Anyway, glad all you London pussies are OK :)
I was on the Victoria line about 2 hours ago and now I read its closed because the police shot someone?
Wasim wrote: I was on the Victoria line about 2 hours ago and now I read its closed because the police shot someone?
they've been directed not to fuck about with suspected suicide attackers, wounding the bastards is no good. takes enough lead to mke protein mush of their brains to be sure they can't yank "The Lord's handle".
Still in a way it speaks volumes tht a cop shooting someone is still news here.
I'm afraid that yesterday our psychotic friends (funny how bastards who kill for "their faith" never EVER look like much of an example of it......those securicam pics show boyz wit da bling. And that wankstain Mohammed Atta was a fucking pisshead....can see it now....Mo arrive at whatever the Islamic version of the pearly gates is..."where's my virgins"..."sorry mo, you misread yer quoran mate, slaughtering women and kids is a no no, and even if it wasn't, you're drunk...fuck off!") dropped a bollock that can be seen from orbit. Let's just hpe that while we're sorting this lot out another cell doesn't go active.
OH, please mr blair, send them to normal prisons, let them meet "big eddy" from the east end who's granny they blew up.....60 or 70 years of that should do nicely.
One Brain wrote:
Wasim wrote: I was on the Victoria line about 2 hours ago and now I read its closed because the police shot someone?
Frankly, its about effing time they cracked down on fare dodgers.
Turns out he had nothing to do with the bombings at all.
There's a lesson somewhere: If an armed policeman tells you to stop, don't jump the barriers and run on to a tube, you'll be shot dead 
Especially in the current climate 
Only a brain-dead moron would run onto a tube train-- with the police in hot pursuit-- after being ordered to stop. What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh well, no point pursuing him now, he's on the tube, let's get back to looking for terrorists." He's dead because he didn't stop, and the cops weren't about to let a terrorist blow up another train right there in front of them. Yeah, afterwards it turns out he had no bomb, but how are the cops supposed to know that as he's running for the train? He's dead because he was an arse, not because the cops overreacted.
bLuE oRdEr wrote: Only a brain-dead moron would run onto a tube train-- with the police in hot pursuit-- after being ordered to stop. What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh well, no point pursuing him now, he's on the tube, let's get back to looking for terrorists." He's dead because he didn't stop, and the cops weren't about to let a terrorist blow up another train right there in front of them. Yeah, afterwards it turns out he had no bomb, but how are the cops supposed to know that as he's running for the train? He's dead because he was an arse, not because the cops overreacted.
wow, let's just hope some poor sod who doesn't speak a word of english doesn't get into this situation. would he still be an arse then for not stopping?
seems to me the metropolitan police pulled a lillehammer today.
I said the same thing about the joyriders who got shot here. If you refuse the order of a soldier or an armed police officer (especially while driving at them or trying to dive onto a train wearing a long coat on a ht day, 24 hrs after there had been an attempted suicide attack by people so stupid even a bunch of drunk irish fuckers built better bombs.......you get shot, and have little grounds to whine.
I've been kneeled down with an SA-80 pointed at my neck. Nothing major, just a routine traffic stop, you'll like them, you'll be having them soon. Now I sat there and chatted to the soldiers..."you ever get bored of this?.....could you not have parked up somewhere warmer" that sort of thing...they did not shoot me....IF however I'd leapt up and taken off accross a field, well it's be "Jenkins, chap with glasses there, Five round rapid".....and I'd be to blame. (And five points if you spot what I'm paraphrasing there)
"armed police:stop or I will shoot" is fairly descriptive sentence. And screw the language barrier......I don;t speak a word of japanese.....but if a bunchof short yellowy-brown skinned gents in pseuodo miltary uniforms pointed guns and yelled at me....I'd hit the deck....whether or not it's me they're after.
Anyway, it's the first time in mainland-UK history that the police have been allowed and indeed ORDERED to shoot to kill (obviously if te spastic in your sights is on the fast track to his tribal god image, wounding him is a little fucking pointless. That works here, where the terrorists are both xowardly and stupid.....they park a bomb and run.....then phone in a warning (sometimes to cause a panic, sometimes, like Omagh to cause the police to herd as many women and children into the kill zone as possible).
Cops pop cunts here all the time, and having lived in a nest of loyalist cunts for years ( and having no evidence that the other lot are any better), it's a good thing. And remembe the cops HERE are like US ones, constantly armed. the only difference is, they have to see a weapon or be fired on before they can respond. IT was lucky cops that saw the 2 kids take out the Glocke replica BBguns at a parade ast week, asked qustions first.
Police shooting in the UK this year 4 or 5, one fatality on mainland, none here yet.... Anyone got the stats for US, germany, japan, Russia, anywhere but the republic of Ireland ( where the cops still hate guns as much as me, Dr WHo and the mainland cops).
BTW, where did you read he was defo innocent.....aint seen nothing on BBC, mind you I've been pillowdrooling since 1400hrs.
AgentWood wrote:
bLuE oRdEr wrote: Only a brain-dead moron would run onto a tube train-- with the police in hot pursuit-- after being ordered to stop. What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh well, no point pursuing him now, he's on the tube, let's get back to looking for terrorists." He's dead because he didn't stop, and the cops weren't about to let a terrorist blow up another train right there in front of them. Yeah, afterwards it turns out he had no bomb, but how are the cops supposed to know that as he's running for the train? He's dead because he was an arse, not because the cops overreacted.
wow, let's just hope some poor sod who doesn't speak a word of english doesn't get into this situation. would he still be an arse then for not stopping?
seems to me the metropolitan police pulled a lillehammer today.
I've thought about that possibility. But. When I was in Serbia, which is about as close to a police state as I'vbe come, I barely understood any Serbian-- only the most rudimentary expressions. My friend and I were in a Post Office once, because we could go online there. I was trying to get something from the States-- one of my books for an exam, probably-- so I borrowed my friend's cell phone and called a friend in the States. Suddenly, a cop grabbed me by the elbow, and was saying something utterly incomprehensible to me. It turned out that my friend had been stopped by the cops for taking photos inside the post office, and they thought I was involved as well. In short, they thought we were spying. We didn't understand a word of what they were saying, and fortunately, had a Serb student there to translate for us, but I'll tell you what we didn't do-- ignore them, start running, start giving them a reason to escalate.
If the cops want to stop you the day after a train bombing, even if you don't speak their language, you need to think twice about the advisability of ignoring their commands and making a dash for the train.
Five cops piled on a guy that they believed was carrying a bomb. If he had been carrying a bomb, people would be calling them heroes today for shielding the blast with their bodies. Their actions were heroic, and the fact that he turned out not to be carrying a bomb-- and that's all we really know about him right now-- doesn't make their actions any less heroic. They thought he had a bomb, and instead of running for their lives, they piled on him. The only reason he's dead today is because he ran-- onto a train-- from police officers who were ordering him to stop.
A soldier did the same thing here once in the main station in Belfast, young guy with kids. Someone ran in set a bag down and legged it. Soldier just had time to shout "run" and throw himself on the bag, he saved dozens, men women and kids, half of them probably hated him too. And there was VERY little left of him.
Incidentally, for doubters....dumping 100KG of water and battledress (a good description of a soldir or policeman) directly on an explosive will RUIN it's effect. After all, the bombsquad will tell you a bukct of water or sand is enough to neutralize the blast from a grenade.
Has anyone heard any more about what that arse was wearing. I oringally heard he was walking round in a HUGE coat despite it being 75 degrees.....suspicious or what. Also, the cops had been tailing him all morning.....so again I ask, where was it reported he was definietly not involved?
EDIT: right this is an ULTIMATE no-no, to divulge this lvin here, but my dad's a cop. I feel I'm ok to say that here, cos it's a room full of rational New Order fans, and because If anyone DOES fancy shooting him, that's cool with me, cos I'd rather that than them shoot some man who's family would care.
So he's out at this bomb one day, everyone cleared out, ad waiting on the Wheelbarrow coming (it's a wee bot that looks like Jonny5, that puts elephant slugs(a shotgun shell with a single HUGE lead lump) into anything suspicious and get's wasted by bombs regularly, nice to see it had an outing in london the other day, I'd been worried for it locked up, cold and unloved). This English Colonel or Major, comes wandering down, the road, and speaks to the police and Army there in a totally condescending manner...."so THIS is what you call a terrosit situation here........doesn't look like much to me....where's this bally bomb meant to be anyway" One of the local soldiers said "silver volkswagon sir"...guy looks around him...."and where is this then?, what's a silver VW with a bomb in it look like". The soldier was again about to answer, when a cop interjected and said "pretty much like any other silver VW, except it's full of explosives and has an arrogant twat in khaki sitting on it's bonnet". ROFLMAO......the guy was off the car and up the road to the civies like a bullet. Best thing was, that even the wheelbarrow's controlled round set the bugger off and it was HUGE!, they'd have found the dipshit's swagger stick in the next county (as it was, the wheelbarrow made one of it's larger leaps that day, 2 streets)
Sorry, I just ran a quick
rsync /dev/brain --world-news
Yup seems they wasted a random, oh well....Darwin award to him then.
Only in the UK could the "war on terror" (pathetic phrase.....are they gonna take out all the terrorists and then start on spiders, bees and anything else that causes terror? trust the bleeding yanks to be mothertonguefuckers), be reduced to a bollock dropping competition.
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
AgentWood wrote:
bLuE oRdEr wrote: Only a brain-dead moron would run onto a tube train-- with the police in hot pursuit-- after being ordered to stop. What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh well, no point pursuing him now, he's on the tube, let's get back to looking for terrorists." He's dead because he didn't stop, and the cops weren't about to let a terrorist blow up another train right there in front of them. Yeah, afterwards it turns out he had no bomb, but how are the cops supposed to know that as he's running for the train? He's dead because he was an arse, not because the cops overreacted.
wow, let's just hope some poor sod who doesn't speak a word of english doesn't get into this situation. would he still be an arse then for not stopping?
seems to me the metropolitan police pulled a lillehammer today.
I've thought about that possibility. But. When I was in Serbia, which is about as close to a police state as I'vbe come, I barely understood any Serbian-- only the most rudimentary expressions. My friend and I were in a Post Office once, because we could go online there. I was trying to get something from the States-- one of my books for an exam, probably-- so I borrowed my friend's cell phone and called a friend in the States. Suddenly, a cop grabbed me by the elbow, and was saying something utterly incomprehensible to me. It turned out that my friend had been stopped by the cops for taking photos inside the post office, and they thought I was involved as well. In short, they thought we were spying. We didn't understand a word of what they were saying, and fortunately, had a Serb student there to translate for us, but I'll tell you what we didn't do-- ignore them, start running, start giving them a reason to escalate.
If the cops want to stop you the day after a train bombing, even if you don't speak their language, you need to think twice about the advisability of ignoring their commands and making a dash for the train.
Five cops piled on a guy that they believed was carrying a bomb. If he had been carrying a bomb, people would be calling them heroes today for shielding the blast with their bodies. Their actions were heroic, and the fact that he turned out not to be carrying a bomb-- and that's all we really know about him right now-- doesn't make their actions any less heroic. They thought he had a bomb, and instead of running for their lives, they piled on him. The only reason he's dead today is because he ran-- onto a train-- from police officers who were ordering him to stop.
from another perspective: i was entering a bank in nicaragua in january and i was stopped at the door by a police officer. i don't speak a word of spanish (well, hola) and he was obviously trying to tell me something very important, but i had no idea what it was. fortunately, he took pity on me and tried to mime what he wanted me to do. after about ten minutes of going back and forth with no luck, an english-speaking patron told me that he was asking me to please check my weapon and/or camera at the door, if i had one. he opened a box next to him and there were guns, cameras, etc. i put my throwaway camera in there, but i honestly had no idea what he was saying to me. i didn't know if i was in trouble, i didn't know if he wanted a bribe, i had no idea what he wanted. if it weren't for the interpreter i might have just ignored him and walked in--who knows what would have happened then?
i'm rather used to the everyday fear of terrorism--i lived in israel, for christ's sake--but i still think these police officers were jumping the gun. pun not intended.
but u didn't barge the guy and sprint for the counter staff, you stopped and communicated. like I said, the guy wins a Darwin award. And after living in Isreal, you think THIS wa heavy handed?
Five guys jumping on a suspected suicide bomber on a crowded train to shield blast and offing the guy befoer he could push the martyr button=bad responding to kids throwing rocks with an AH64 (and let's not forget we're talking about something as powerful as a tank and ten times as accurate as sniper rifle, you get to see the target up close and personal)=fine
am i missing something?
The guy shot was from Brazil. Maybe his only experience of police is that they randomly arrest and brutalise people... who knows???
Maybe thats why he got scared and ran. Maybe he didn't speak English as well...
Either way; 5 fucking bullets, when you're prone on the floor, is overdoing it big time.
1 bullet to the chest will make most people stop what they're doing.
Not if you (Eroneously) believe he's a wouldbe suicide bomber. You must destroy his ability to control his limbs totally, and 5 slugs would be one effective method of achieving that, there are many others, many of them much less "long term" in their effects......time for a strategic rethink.
And as was mentioned above, if he HAD been carrying a bomb, those guys would be lined up for commendations and hero worhsip.
What we need to find out is why they were tailing him in the first place (some mad old witch prolly phoned the cops about a "foreigner" lookin shifty), and what made them so sure he was a threat.....otehr than everyone being mega jumpy.
Steve Campbell wrote:
what made them so sure he was a threat......
why was he running away then?
AgentWood wrote:
bLuE oRdEr wrote:
AgentWood wrote:
bLuE oRdEr wrote: Only a brain-dead moron would run onto a tube train-- with the police in hot pursuit-- after being ordered to stop. What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh well, no point pursuing him now, he's on the tube, let's get back to looking for terrorists." He's dead because he didn't stop, and the cops weren't about to let a terrorist blow up another train right there in front of them. Yeah, afterwards it turns out he had no bomb, but how are the cops supposed to know that as he's running for the train? He's dead because he was an arse, not because the cops overreacted.
wow, let's just hope some poor sod who doesn't speak a word of english doesn't get into this situation. would he still be an arse then for not stopping?
seems to me the metropolitan police pulled a lillehammer today.
I've thought about that possibility. But. When I was in Serbia, which is about as close to a police state as I'vbe come, I barely understood any Serbian-- only the most rudimentary expressions. My friend and I were in a Post Office once, because we could go online there. I was trying to get something from the States-- one of my books for an exam, probably-- so I borrowed my friend's cell phone and called a friend in the States. Suddenly, a cop grabbed me by the elbow, and was saying something utterly incomprehensible to me. It turned out that my friend had been stopped by the cops for taking photos inside the post office, and they thought I was involved as well. In short, they thought we were spying. We didn't understand a word of what they were saying, and fortunately, had a Serb student there to translate for us, but I'll tell you what we didn't do-- ignore them, start running, start giving them a reason to escalate.
If the cops want to stop you the day after a train bombing, even if you don't speak their language, you need to think twice about the advisability of ignoring their commands and making a dash for the train.
Five cops piled on a guy that they believed was carrying a bomb. If he had been carrying a bomb, people would be calling them heroes today for shielding the blast with their bodies. Their actions were heroic, and the fact that he turned out not to be carrying a bomb-- and that's all we really know about him right now-- doesn't make their actions any less heroic. They thought he had a bomb, and instead of running for their lives, they piled on him. The only reason he's dead today is because he ran-- onto a train-- from police officers who were ordering him to stop.
from another perspective: i was entering a bank in nicaragua in january and i was stopped at the door by a police officer. i don't speak a word of spanish (well, hola) and he was obviously trying to tell me something very important, but i had no idea what it was. fortunately, he took pity on me and tried to mime what he wanted me to do. after about ten minutes of going back and forth with no luck, an english-speaking patron told me that he was asking me to please check my weapon and/or camera at the door, if i had one. he opened a box next to him and there were guns, cameras, etc. i put my throwaway camera in there, but i honestly had no idea what he was saying to me. i didn't know if i was in trouble, i didn't know if he wanted a bribe, i had no idea what he wanted. if it weren't for the interpreter i might have just ignored him and walked in--who knows what would have happened then?
i'm rather used to the everyday fear of terrorism--i lived in israel, for christ's sake--but i still think these police officers were jumping the gun. pun not intended.
I had a similar type experience with the bus driver when I left Serbia. He kept telling me to do something-- I had no idea what he wanted. He kept telling me in Serbian, as if that would clear things up. Then he switched to utterly incomprehensible gestures. 
Finally, an elderly woman helped me by showing me what he wanted-- he wanted me to move my bags to the other side of the bus.
I think the point of our mutual experiences is that if somebody-- especially cops or soldiers-- stops you, and you don't understand the language, the smart thing to do is to cooperate, instead of running for it.
I haven't read that the guy didn't speak English, but his family did say that he might have just been afraid of cops, coming from Brazil. A tragic end for him, apparently, but I hardly think the cops misbehaved. They had a split-second to decide what to do after he made a dash for the train. It's only day-after quarterbacking that tells us he didn't have a bomb.
If you come to London don't bring a rucksack, don't come from a country with an oppressive police force, don't get any kind of tan and most of all make sure you can speak English...
oh, you probably can't read this then - condolences to your family in advance...
i saw a program where police were showing off non-lethal methods for apprehending fleeing criminals. one was a giant gun that spat out a huge, flowing wad of sticky gum that essentially paralyzed the person.
i think it's time for these gum-ejaculating firearms. what do you think? it would save a life and bring some entertainment to law enforcement.
Well they'd do the trick. Fewer Darwin awards too. Mate of mine told me he heard an interview with the chap the ex-idiot was travellin with ,or one of his mates or something, and apparently he spoke excellent English. Dunno if that's true.
My family is from San Francisco, but I grew up in San Jose; spent most of my life there. There were probably two police shootings in my town in my entire previous life.
I moved to Portland five years ago, and suddenly there's one or two police shootings every year. The cops here are trigger-happy assholes, and no surprise here, their targets are unarmed black motorists. Well, except for the last guy, he wasn't driving a car, and he did have a knife. The problem is, inevery single instance, the cops adopted a shoot-to-kill tactic as their first response to a problem. The unarmed black motorist, whom the cops recognized, and knew by name (and whom, therefore, they could go round to visit at her home later) is coked out, and tries to start the car up again, so they lean in and shoot to kill. The unarmed black motorist, high on something, reaches in his pocket, the cops order him to pull his hand out of his pocket, and as he does exactly what they order him to do, they empty their guns and their tasers into him. The last guy is obviously mentally ill, high on drugs, and armed with a knife, kicking over garbage cans downtown. The cops approach him, he charges, and they empty their guns. In every single instance since I've been here, the cops have chosen lethal force as their first alternative, when there are clearly other options. But what would you expect from a police force that pepper-sprayed a baby?
I think in general, the police should use non-lethal force to make an arrest, unless they have no other alternative, and lives are in danger. Like in London.
Having killed a poor guy from Brazil is no good, no doubts about it. Now, isn't this the price to pay to fight against terrorism in an effective manner? Looking at the brave reactions in the UK and the quick progress cops are making, I tell to myself that that we are still in a good shape beacuse these dam bastards won't win anything.
I am afraid that's the world we live in today!
Steve Campbell wrote: Mate of mine told me he heard an interview with the chap the ex-idiot was travellin with ,or one of his mates or something, and apparently he spoke excellent English. Dunno if that's true.
He spoke English fluently (according to his cousin) and he was an electrician working in the UK for about 4 years. Although it doesn't matter how late one is for work, if the police tell you to stop, you stop. Running away from the cops is stupid under any circumstances. On the other hand, I don't think the police were right in shoting him in the head five times if he was already pinned on the ground.
BIGINOIL wrote:
AgentWood wrote: ejaculating
(Just for anyone who was missing the usual childish BCD tone!)
"He heard footsteps running to and fro in the rooms, and up and down stairs behind him. His landlady came to the door, loosely wrapped in dressing gown and shawl; her husband followed ejaculating."
H.G.Wells
Can those who think shooting him was totally wrong, perhaps give another method of preventing him pulling the "happy afterlife generator" handle? A better way that turning his brain to much.
Perhaps the old style UK cop technique....."I say, stop that at ONCE!" would have surficed.
Besides, like I said, Darwin in action.....we have not lost a cancer cure, or a new method of interplanetary propulsion....we lost someone who thought 5 cops with guns, 24 hrs after a terrorist attack, were only SUGGESTING he may like to stop. The world got lighter.
Steve Campbell wrote: "He heard footsteps running to and fro in the rooms, and up and down stairs behind him. His landlady came to the door, loosely wrapped in dressing gown and shawl; her husband followed ejaculating."
H.G.Wells
Can those who think shooting him was totally wrong, perhaps give another method of preventing him pulling the "happy afterlife generator" handle? A better way that turning his brain to much.
Perhaps the old style UK cop technique....."I say, stop that at ONCE!" would have surficed.
Besides, like I said, Darwin in action.....we have not lost a cancer cure, or a new method of interplanetary propulsion....we lost someone who thought 5 cops with guns, 24 hrs after a terrorist attack, were only SUGGESTING he may like to stop. The world got lighter.
The police were plainclothes.
Why did the police LIE and insist this guy was directly related to the bombings for three days when they knew he wasn't?
I would not stop for police who were plainclothes, unless they showed me some convincing ID. Have they said they did this? NO. Why? Probably because it was an MI5 cock up - not a police intervention.
Stockwell is in a dodgy part of South London and people do pretend to be things they are not.
Why did they shoot him in the head 5 times AFTER pinning him down?
Now all the facts are coming out it seems there is less and less justification for killing this bloke.
This whole thing STINKS!
I agree, this operation has MI5 written all over it. They probably didn't even identify themselves.
Anybody watched the tv series 'Spooks' a couple years ago?
I'm not saying the fact they tailed and targetted this poor sod wasn't a total dog's dick of a bit of "intelligence".
BUT, IF they'd been right and done anything else other than pile 5 bodies on him and "interupt" his nervous system.....there'd be a whole pile more dead Londers and everyone would be A. calling the cops wankers and B. saying they need tanks and stuff.
Besides, it's just the usualy media crap, same thing happens all the bloody time all over thw world....it's just suddenly happened somehwere they were already looking. And in a (part of a) country where cops don't normally blow people away.
Given the choice.... A. dispatch an idiot to his maker mistakenly or B. carpet bomb civilians in a KNOWINGLY utterly unrelated country.
I know what I prefer as a measuered response. Course, we're doing both, so my argument kinda falls on it's arse right there.
Steve Campbell wrote: I'm not saying the fact they tailed and targetted this poor sod wasn't a total dog's dick of a bit of "intelligence".
BUT, IF they'd been right and done anything else other than pile 5 bodies on him and "interupt" his nervous system.....there'd be a whole pile more dead Londers and everyone would be A. calling the cops wankers and B. saying they need tanks and stuff.
Besides, it's just the usualy media crap, same thing happens all the bloody time all over thw world....it's just suddenly happened somehwere they were already looking. And in a (part of a) country where cops don't normally blow people away.
Given the choice.... A. dispatch an idiot to his maker mistakenly or B. carpet bomb civilians in a KNOWINGLY utterly unrelated country.
I know what I prefer as a measuered response. Course, we're doing both, so my argument kinda falls on it's arse right there.
Tell his grieving relatives he's an idiot. What if it was you, what if it was me?
These police / MI5 were NOT IN UNIFORM.
If a small gang of people wearing civvies was chasing you in a dodgy part of London, with guns, would you 'adopt the position'?
I think not.
OK, if that's the case, I tend to agree with you. the way I heard the report, he was initially challenged by uniformed officers, then attacked by the spooks. If that's bollox, then maybe the guy wasn't quite such a twat. Maybe he was actually terrified of the same thing the cops were.
Again tho, the cops were supposedly tailing this guy, where did that startling piece of "intelligence" come from? Some friggin "Tim nice But Dim" in fookin MI*, the place is full of them..."I say, get him a post in intelligence, he can't do much damage there".
Used to be "innocent until proven Irish", apparently it's innocent until "proven brownish" now.
I appear to have based my argument on somewhat out of date info, remember that for me, sleep is something that happens to other people, so I'm not always up to date (anything that doesn't float accross my news ticker on AP or slashdot or the register, doesn't usually sink in....I don't watch much telly news cos it's all gone far too Chris Morris for me to stomach).
I do stand by the mulching of the nervous system as being the only stopper for some godbrain on the fastrack to a halo. Bringing such a target down by wounding him in the leg is no use whatsoever. When people whinged about the RUC wasting people here they probably had a point, there's plenty of ways to neutralize an armed opponent without offing him. But when the guy has already taken the decision to die, and has some easily operable trigger mechanism that could kill hundreds, I fear that makin a big mess is as good a means as any. And let's hope they DO come up something where a mistake can be sorted with an apology and a nice cup of tea.
I'm not sure I like that fookin avatar gawpin at me BTW.
Come on, you're a big rufty toughty - i'm sure you're not afraid of a little old Dalek Emporer...?
digitalwaters wrote:
Steve Campbell wrote: I'm not saying the fact they tailed and targetted this poor sod wasn't a total dog's dick of a bit of "intelligence".
BUT, IF they'd been right and done anything else other than pile 5 bodies on him and "interupt" his nervous system.....there'd be a whole pile more dead Londers and everyone would be A. calling the cops wankers and B. saying they need tanks and stuff.
Besides, it's just the usualy media crap, same thing happens all the bloody time all over thw world....it's just suddenly happened somehwere they were already looking. And in a (part of a) country where cops don't normally blow people away.
Given the choice.... A. dispatch an idiot to his maker mistakenly or B. carpet bomb civilians in a KNOWINGLY utterly unrelated country.
I know what I prefer as a measuered response. Course, we're doing both, so my argument kinda falls on it's arse right there.
Tell his grieving relatives he's an idiot. What if it was you, what if it was me?
These police / MI5 were NOT IN UNIFORM.
If a small gang of people wearing civvies was chasing you in a dodgy part of London, with guns, would you 'adopt the position'?
I think not.
We'd probably all run if we were being chased in a dodgy part of town. The cops were definitely plainclothes, but I've assumed they identified themselves. If they didn't identify themselves, then they murdered that poor guy. If they did identify themselves, he shouldn't have run. I read that he was in the UK on an expired visa, and that may be why he ran. If that's the case, it's a tragedy, and he shouldn't be dead over such a trifling matter, but the cops had no way of knowing that he wasn't carrying a bomb; they were tailing him as a part of the terrorist investigation.
At my age, I'm aware just how young that guy was, and just how short life is. I'm not operating under any assumptions that we come back again and again, so losing the one life you have at such a young age is a tragedy. I'm not callous about that.
I just don't think the cops can be blamed, absent some showing that they screwed up-- they didn't identify themselves, he tried to give up, whatever. Everything I've read so far indicates that they repeatedly tried to get him to stop, he kept saying "I'm doing it" but kept running, and they only shot him as he jumped on the train.
