Religion, Bollox or not

pumped full of drugs wrote: not that i have anything to back it up ... but going back into unwritten history, pretty much any culture had basic rules of society (laws of some sort) to keep things from anarchy, without laws you have no society... i.e. citizens of a group should not kill and steal from other citizens just for the hell of it, which is basically what is said in the ten commandments. there is no great epiphony here unique to the Judeo-Christian religion. without basic laws you cannot have economic commerce, and society had existed for a few thousand years before the early Jewish culture. it could be claimed that our society has gotten more from Greece and Rome in terms of moral thought and behavior, but that is all a matter of argument.

the trouble is that as soon as humaniy was evolved enough to form something called a society, religion also evolved.

as was pointed out above the laws and rules which govern society are then ascribed to those gods, or made to please those gods.

i don't think there actually ever was a society in history without religion.

The church I grew up in was a staunch supporter of the Apartheid government, only to turn around after 1990 and announce that they were indeed wrong all those years and sorry for all the hurt they caused - all of this based on what? None of the scriptures they based their teaching on had changed, only the cultural milieu they operated in did. I remember quite clearly sitting in church one Sunday morning when an African beggar came in from the street and quietly took a seat near the door to listen to the service, only to be told by a church official to leave - so much for loving your neighbour. Haven't been to church in 20 yrs now and personally I have a very strong sense that when we die, that's it - lights out, all over - nothing I have seen or heard in my life has given me any other indication, though I hope I'm wrong.

shot bru wrote: The church I grew up in was a staunch supporter of the Apartheid government, only to turn around after 1990 and announce that they were indeed wrong all those years and sorry for all the hurt they caused - all of this based on what? None of the scriptures they based their teaching on had changed, only the cultural milieu they operated in did. I remember quite clearly sitting in church one Sunday morning when an African beggar came in from the street and quietly took a seat near the door to listen to the service, only to be told by a church official to leave - so much for loving your neighbour. Haven't been to church in 20 yrs now and personally I have a very strong sense that when we die, that's it - lights out, all over - nothing I have seen or heard in my life has given me any other indication, though I hope I'm wrong.

didn't the boers sort of consider themselves a people that had a new covenant with god? we can go through the history of the church all through history and wrongs.

just off the top of my head. did the catholic church denounce the nazis or cooperate with them? these are retorical questions.

didn't the church bless tanks on both sides in WWII?

did the catholic church denounce the nazis or cooperate with them?

Those Catholics and clergy that opposed Hitler were carted off to camp. Those that had no desire to visit camp kepted their mouths shut. Goering visited the vatican IIRC. Some German heroes may have become Nazi icons if they were not Catholic. Schlageter is the prime example. He was executed for blowing up a rail line used by France to extract WWI war reparations. Although a local hero he never became a Nazi hero. Werner Molders, one of their best fighter pilots, was a Catholic and bitched about a priest getting picked on by the Gestapo. The priest was left alone. But if they really hated Catholics they could have easily destroyed the Vatican. Some evidence that the vatican helped to smuggle people out.

twist wrote:

did the catholic church denounce the nazis or cooperate with them?

Those Catholics and clergy that opposed Hitler were carted off to camp. Those that had no desire to visit camp kepted their mouths shut. Goering visited the vatican IIRC. Some German heroes may have become Nazi icons if they were not Catholic. Schlageter is the prime example. He was executed for blowing up a rail line used by France to extract WWI war reparations. Although a local hero he never became a Nazi hero. Werner Molders, one of their best fighter pilots, was a Catholic and bitched about a priest getting picked on by the Gestapo. The priest was left alone. But if they really hated Catholics they could have easily destroyed the Vatican. Some evidence that the vatican helped to smuggle people out.

i was more thinking along the lines of the vatican bank.

Ronald Kirsch wrote:

a sociologist please?

I'll admit to a Sociology degree but tend to steer clear of these sorts of discussions. Not worth the grief. I'm mainly here for New Order!

:\pimp3:

[orange]depthcharge[/orange] wrote:

Ronald Kirsch wrote:

a sociologist please?

I'll admit to a Sociology degree but tend to steer clear of these sorts of discussions. Not worth the grief. I'm mainly here for New Order!

:\pimp3:

I studied sociology in many aspects in my University. But I don't feel I say something very "scientific" now that nobody knows.

However I have a few points: religion was developed indeed along with the formation of societies. But to me the greatest study of humankind and its history lies in surviving primitive societies (literal tribes). Their religion is in great connection with the Nature, becuase the people themselves are bare to whims of the surrounding conditions. They don't have a philosophy - something that goes beyond reality into abstract. Religion in our modern meaning sprang from complex societies and only temporarily addresses to "God" or "Gods" (= eternal mystery). Like in the past there were no gods but "spirits" of wood, sky, in the far future there will be no "current" gods, but nevertheless people will address to something else, since our mystery is eternal. :)

B O L L O X

N O T

I bet you think it is really, but you just like to oppose everything i say or do you nasty man you!

Missy Jem wrote: I bet you think it is really, but you just like to oppose everything i say or do you nasty man you!

voices...i hear voices. who is this who is this

I'm with Ferris Bueller on this one.

"I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me."

Okay, so I'm quoting a quote, but come on - he was onto something.And he got to do it with Mia Sara.

Jonny Donepoindatgunname wrote: I'm with Ferris Bueller on this one.

"I don't believe in Beatles. I just believe in me."

Okay, so I'm quoting a quote, but come on - he was onto something.And he got to do it with Mia Sara.

fuckinright. what AY babe!!!