Slobodan Milosevic, RIP.

A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

he had a bad time at aston villa :\ohwell:

bansheeman wrote: he had a bad time at aston villa :\ohwell:

Leave Savo out of this

NObabe wrote:

bansheeman wrote: he had a bad time at aston villa :\ohwell:

Leave Savo out of this

well i have to balace that by saying he scored a lot after villa when in spain.or maybe i mean scored a lot at his villa in spain was he at zaragoza ?

i haven't aactually heard this yet. i have to remember all the breaking news comes here first. i have to visit nool more often. :D

bansheeman wrote: was he at zaragoza ?

1998-2000 and again in 2002

also the captain of Serbia and Montenegro national team

currently playing for Osasuna

very cute too

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

Shits good for the soil, as they say.

Made my saturday that has!

Uncle Liam wrote:

Made my saturday that has!

If only he had died 17 years ago .....

Not a satisfactory outcome at all. Just sit back and watch Hussein's trail go the same way.

How much less would it have cost to put a couple of bullets into these evil sods at the point of capture? The intent seems to be to make an example of them, bring them to justice. All that the trials serve to do (at great costs) is prolong the pain, give focus for these people's supporters and prevent the countries from moving on with their recovery.

Now he's dead, he'll be forgotten about in six months and everyone will ignore his friends and supporters. Which is what should have happened years ago.

Fooled us once again.

Did not live through the trial.

Bastard!

saying on the news now about rumours he was poisoned

I just hope he died in terrible pain

Spotnick wrote: BTW NoBabe... your avatar is hilarious.. I guess you have been caught stealing bandwidth

I have confessed myself guilty :(

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

Stick to your own opinion if you like, mate, you're a minority anyway.

I'd like to use the famous words of a dear friend Steve: Not every man who fight Americans is a saint.

Besides I don't think he ever fought them unless "utterly and totally destroying your own country" is what you call fighting.

I know cause I was here in 1993 when people literally had nothing to eat and yet the president and his son fought about where the jacuzzi should be installed.

Bombing Serbia just had to happen so Clinton could draw attention away from that Lewinsky incident haha.

NObabe wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

Stick to your own opinion if you like, mate, you're a minority anyway.

I'd like to use the famous words of a dear friend Steve: Not every man who fight Americans is a saint.

Besides I don't think he ever fought them unless "utterly and totally destroying your own country" is what you call fighting.

I know cause I was here in 1993 when people literally had nothing to eat and yet the president and his son fought about where the jacuzzi should be installed.

Bombing Serbia just had to happen so Clinton could draw attention away from that Lewinsky incident haha.

it's just a shame that he will not stand trial for the atrocities for which he was responsible in his misguided quest for serbian nationalism, the point of which was to give more power to the majority serbs at the expense of the minority ethnic groups in the other yugoslav republics.milosevic used the 'one man, one vote' ideal as a ruse to ensure his own ethnic group (the majority) would always win. sneaky. not too different from the gerrymandering that occurred during the jim crow era in the US, which ensured that blacks would always be disenfranchised as they became a minority in every district.

my serbian and bosnian friends hated him as much as you did, and i've no sympathy for the man whatsoever.

As a floridian...how do you stand on the oft expressed opinion that the self same thing has been going on there very recently?

we make 1920s chicago look as clean as a whistle!

fair enough :D

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

What a crock of tripe.

Good riddance to a genocidal cunt.

:\party: :dancingonhisgrave:

Comrade Shampanyov, Gentleman wrote: Good riddance to a genocidal cunt.

:\party: :dancingonhisgrave:

They should quote you for his epitaph, Comrade...

Snorri xxx

NObabe wrote: Bombing Serbia just had to happen so Clinton could draw attention away from that Lewinsky incident haha.

Wouldn't have caught Comrade drawing attention away from his Oval Office escapades. :D

bansheeman wrote: he had a bad time at aston villa :\ohwell:

The Villa have had some 'criminal' strikers over the years...

Snorri xxx

Comrade Shampanyov, Gentleman wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

What a crock of tripe.

actually, comrade, i think those lines were from a bond film. i think it was in the last one. you know: the north korean guy who has face surgery, becomes a british aristocrat, then holds a demonstration of his satellite laser device from his ice palace in iceland as pierce brosnan and halle berry try to save the world?

AgentWood wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov, Gentleman wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

What a crock of tripe.

actually, comrade, i think those lines were from a bond film. i think it was in the last one. you know: the north korean guy who has face surgery, becomes a british aristocrat, then holds a demonstration of his satellite laser device from his ice palace in iceland as pierce brosnan and halle berry try to save the world?

Still a crock of tripe then...

Snorri xxx

Shocking news!!!!

Well I'm glad he didn't make it to the trial. I don't know any other modern politician in Europe whose death would be so significant.

Now consider the death of Milan Babic, leader of Serbian Kraina, a few days ago, also, in his cell. It'd look like a perfect conspiracy...

Milosevic was not the right person for the 90s ethnical chaos. He would be good as a regular party functioner. Yet unfortunately the fate threw ihm into archcomplicated, ruthless crisis.

But what about real heroes, Mladko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic? The fate's got a finale for them, too.

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: Shocking news!!!!

Well I'm glad he didn't make it to the trial. I don't know any other modern politician in Europe whose death would be so significant.

Now consider the death of Milan Babic, leader of Serbian Kraina, a few days ago, also, in his cell. It'd look like a perfect conspiracy...

Milosevic was not the right person for the 90s ethnical chaos. He would be good as a regular party functioner. Yet unfortunately the fate threw ihm into archcomplicated, ruthless crisis.

But what about real heroes, Mladko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic? The fate's got a finale for them, too.

He was a monster. Full stop. Fate is blameless...

Snorri xxx

Snorrimon wrote:

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: Shocking news!!!!

Well I'm glad he didn't make it to the trial. I don't know any other modern politician in Europe whose death would be so significant.

Now consider the death of Milan Babic, leader of Serbian Kraina, a few days ago, also, in his cell. It'd look like a perfect conspiracy...

Milosevic was not the right person for the 90s ethnical chaos. He would be good as a regular party functioner. Yet unfortunately the fate threw ihm into archcomplicated, ruthless crisis.

But what about real heroes, Mladko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic? The fate's got a finale for them, too.

He was a monster. Full stop. Fate is blameless...

Snorri xxx

Hardly was he a monster. Rather a stupid and typical politician who always tried to trade and as a result lost everything. Like I said he was not the type of politician able to lead his country. There were a few times when he could stop the accelerating interethnical crisis, but he didn't being ignorant.

On the other hand, who would predict back in the 80's that there could be a war in the middle of Europe again? It seemed impossible and once the wars broke out, who knew the recepee to stop them graciously? ;)

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote:

Snorrimon wrote:

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: Shocking news!!!!

Well I'm glad he didn't make it to the trial. I don't know any other modern politician in Europe whose death would be so significant.

Now consider the death of Milan Babic, leader of Serbian Kraina, a few days ago, also, in his cell. It'd look like a perfect conspiracy...

Milosevic was not the right person for the 90s ethnical chaos. He would be good as a regular party functioner. Yet unfortunately the fate threw ihm into archcomplicated, ruthless crisis.

But what about real heroes, Mladko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic? The fate's got a finale for them, too.

He was a monster. Full stop. Fate is blameless...

Snorri xxx

Hardly was he a monster. Rather a stupid and typical politician who always tried to trade and as a result lost everything. Like I said he was not the type of politician able to lead his country. There were a few times when he could stop the accelerating interethnical crisis, but he didn't being ignorant.

On the other hand, who would predict back in the 80's that there could be a war in the middle of Europe again? It seemed impossible and once the wars broke out, who knew the recepee to stop them graciously? ;)

ian stop defending the indefensible. he was the leader. he is responsible. there were wars he started and atrocities. need i mention ethnic cleansing.

he was a monster.

Ronald Kirsch wrote:

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote:

Snorrimon wrote:

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: Shocking news!!!!

Well I'm glad he didn't make it to the trial. I don't know any other modern politician in Europe whose death would be so significant.

Now consider the death of Milan Babic, leader of Serbian Kraina, a few days ago, also, in his cell. It'd look like a perfect conspiracy...

Milosevic was not the right person for the 90s ethnical chaos. He would be good as a regular party functioner. Yet unfortunately the fate threw ihm into archcomplicated, ruthless crisis.

But what about real heroes, Mladko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic? The fate's got a finale for them, too.

He was a monster. Full stop. Fate is blameless...

Snorri xxx

Hardly was he a monster. Rather a stupid and typical politician who always tried to trade and as a result lost everything. Like I said he was not the type of politician able to lead his country. There were a few times when he could stop the accelerating interethnical crisis, but he didn't being ignorant.

On the other hand, who would predict back in the 80's that there could be a war in the middle of Europe again? It seemed impossible and once the wars broke out, who knew the recepee to stop them graciously? ;)

ian stop defending the indefensible. he was the leader. he is responsible. there were wars he started and atrocities. need i mention ethnic cleansing.

he was a monster.

Spotnick wrote: Here we have something even worst going on.. (sorry NOBabe.. ;) )

Just imagine... a hockey legend just died on the day his number was going to be retired from the team... ouch :(

Pretty local thing.. but very sad I must say...

which hockey player ? btw spotnick who was that top player for maple leafs about 3 years ago,saw him play,amazing,but cant recall his name something like tia something ?

Milosovic always tried something too late. When Tudjman, President of Croatia, offered Milosevic almost entire Bosnia (except Dalmatia) if the latter would recognize Croatian borders, Milosevic refused and demanded the half of Slavonia (North-East of Croatia). After that Milosevic got stuck in Bosnia. Tudjman again negotiated to divide Bosnia between Croatia and Serbia: he even announced Sarajevo a Serbian city. Milosevic again was obstinate and demanded entire Bosnia save for Upper Dalmatia. Meanwhile the war was getting nastier and Milosevic lost Bosnia. Right at the time casus Cosovo sprang up. Instead of accepting one of the first plans to regulate the conflict - with leaving a limited contingent of Serbian police and army in the region, he decided to crush the Alabanians no matter what. As a result, he lost now Kosovo (technically it's still a part of Yugoslavia).

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: Milosovic always tried something too late. When Tudjman, President of Croatia, offered Milosevic almost entire Bosnia (except Dalmatia) if the latter would recognize Croatian borders, Milosevic refused and demanded the half of Slavonia (North-East of Croatia). After that Milosevic got stuck in Bosnia. Tudjman again negotiated to divide Bosnia between Croatia and Serbia: he even announced Sarajevo a Serbian city. Milosevic again was obstinate and demanded entire Bosnia save for Upper Dalmatia. Meanwhile the war was getting nastier and Milosevic lost Bosnia. Right at the time casus Cosovo sprang up. Instead of accepting one of the first plans to regulate the conflict - with leaving a limited contingent of Serbian police and army in the region, he decided to crush the Alabanians no matter what. As a result, he lost now Kosovo (technically it's still a part of Yugoslavia).

so he was incompetent as a leader. does incompetence negate evil. i don't think so.

so he was an incompetent monster.

AgentWood wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov, Gentleman wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

What a crock of tripe.

actually, comrade, i think those lines were from a bond film. i think it was in the last one. you know: the north korean guy who has face surgery, becomes a british aristocrat, then holds a demonstration of his satellite laser device from his ice palace in iceland as pierce brosnan and halle berry try to save the world?

Sorry, I'm completely unfamiliar with the spy genre.

Milan Babic?

Isn't he an Aston Villa striker too?

Hmm... Juan-Pablo Angel(of Death Josef Mengele) too.

Do Aston Villa fill their front line with genocidal murderers?

Bring back Dion Dublin..

Clockwork C wrote: A great, but terribly flawed anti-imperialist dies in his cell.

At last, the sham trial to justify US imperialist bombings will end.

Presuambly, this comment means you APPROVE of the ethnic cleansing that was carried out on the orders of milosevic. Or the fact that this man lived in palaces while his people starved? Such a great anti imperialist eh? you make me sick.

wait...weren't the 'US imperialist bombings' initially requested by the dutch commander of UN peacekeeping forces after the UN's failure to prevent the massacre at srebrenica?

and wasn't the 'US imperialist bombing' a NATO campaign (whose secretary general at the time was spanish) using the US military and the german luftwaffe (amongst others), who were flying out of italian airfields?

so...all of europe is either just too stupid to think for themselves, blinded by the glory of the greatness of the united states, or scared shitless of potential american retaliation that they have to follow american policy at every turn? i don't think so. france might not have joined the US, britain and others in iraq but the worst that happened to the french was a bit of 'talk to the hand' playground speak. one may be surprised to find that we're not part of some great conspiracy to dominate the world; in fact, many americans are too oblivious to the rest of the world to care (i can't speak for george bush and his desire for world domination, but that's why presidents can only stay in office for eight years).

correct as usual agent. also how did he qualify as an anti-imperialst? by wanting to establish the serbian empire?

Connor, my Bosnian friends would like to have a discussion with you.

BTW, Hitler's birthday is comming up. Wanna celebrate another that stood up up to the imperialist piggs of America?

twist wrote: Connor, my Bosnian friends would like to have a discussion with you.

BTW, Hitler's birthday is comming up. Wanna celebrate another that stood up up to the imperialist piggs of America?

well put sir. i don't often agree with you, but this time you've nailed it.

Good riddance to an evil monster.

Ronald Kirsch wrote: correct as usual agent. also how did he qualify as an anti-imperialst? by wanting to establish the serbian empire?

yes, but what does that matter when you can attempt to score cheap points against the US?

Uncle Liam wrote:

Ronald Kirsch wrote: correct as usual agent. also how did he qualify as an anti-imperialst? by wanting to establish the serbian empire?

yes, but what does that matter when you can attempt to score cheap points against the US?

yes never let the truth get in the way of a cheap point right. some people just have a very distorted view of the world.

One less commie twat around

Oh well;

I did have my tongue in my cheek when I wrote the post (expect many "how could you,etc") - but underneath it all, I hear on these boards, the same old rubbish I hear everywhere else.

Raising questions about the international criminal court doesn’t make me a supporter of ANYBODYS genocide. I’m not psychotic. The UN is a figleaf for imperialist aggression. I think that the fact that the UNSC has a handful of members and a veto on behalf of one deserves question, and has been at the root of a lot more evil than one deranged left-nationalist (and his seriously deranged para-mates). I’d also rate the aggression of the military-industrial complex of the “west” to be much more destructive an effect on the world than, say, “islamo-facism” or whatever gets peoples blood pressure up this decade.

Milosevic was an anti-imperialist. He was my enemies-enemy, but that doesn’t mean he was my friend. He was no Marxist - but he was a very dodgy left-nationalist - and preferable to an outright fascist like Tudman.

Don’t let that stop you all stoning me though! GENOCIDE!!! MASS MURDERER!!! DUTCH COURTS!!! HOW COULD YOU!!!

Try and scratch below the surface NOOLIES. Its good for your teeth.

Toodle doo for now. C

Surely claims that he was a mass-murderer put any arguments about which particular ideology he subscribed to on the back-burner?

Does it really matter what flag you’re waving when you order the massacre innocent of innocent people?

Clockwork C wrote: Oh well;

I did have my tongue in my cheek when I wrote the post (expect many "how could you,etc") - but underneath it all, I hear on these boards, the same old rubbish I hear everywhere else.

Raising questions about the international criminal court doesn’t make me a supporter of ANYBODYS genocide. I’m not psychotic. The UN is a figleaf for imperialist aggression. I think that the fact that the UNSC has a handful of members and a veto on behalf of one deserves question, and has been at the root of a lot more evil than one deranged left-nationalist (and his seriously deranged para-mates). I’d also rate the aggression of the military-industrial complex of the “west” to be much more destructive an effect on the world than, say, “islamo-facism” or whatever gets peoples blood pressure up this decade.

Milosevic was an anti-imperialist. He was my enemies-enemy, but that doesn’t mean he was my friend. He was no Marxist - but he was a very dodgy left-nationalist - and preferable to an outright fascist like Tudman.

Don’t let that stop you all stoning me though! GENOCIDE!!! MASS MURDERER!!! DUTCH COURTS!!! HOW COULD YOU!!!

Try and scratch below the surface NOOLIES. Its good for your teeth.

Toodle doo for now. C

conor,

a) you didn't appear to have your tongue in your cheek (it's hard to do on a message board and get one's point across correctly) and,

b) if you want to raise questions about the ICC, why didn't you simply do so? it's a valid argument. i support the ICC, but that doesn't mean its existence isn't open for debate.

cheap, opportunistic points christine... never miss a chance as you dont know when your next one will come.

Uncle Liam wrote: cheap, opportunistic points christine... never miss a chance as you dont know when your next one will come.

probably not too far in the future, dear liam. but best to at least try and make this into a discussion with merit, don't you think?

No. With the amount of pure fiction that one person has posted its not worth it.

Clockwork C wrote: Oh well;

I did have my tongue in my cheek when I wrote the post (expect many "how could you,etc") - but underneath it all, I hear on these boards, the same old rubbish I hear everywhere else.

Raising questions about the international criminal court doesn’t make me a supporter of ANYBODYS genocide. I’m not psychotic. The UN is a figleaf for imperialist aggression. I think that the fact that the UNSC has a handful of members and a veto on behalf of one deserves question, and has been at the root of a lot more evil than one deranged left-nationalist (and his seriously deranged para-mates). I’d also rate the aggression of the military-industrial complex of the “west” to be much more destructive an effect on the world than, say, “islamo-facism” or whatever gets peoples blood pressure up this decade.

Milosevic was an anti-imperialist. He was my enemies-enemy, but that doesn’t mean he was my friend. He was no Marxist - but he was a very dodgy left-nationalist - and preferable to an outright fascist like Tudman.

Don’t let that stop you all stoning me though! GENOCIDE!!! MASS MURDERER!!! DUTCH COURTS!!! HOW COULD YOU!!!

Try and scratch below the surface NOOLIES. Its good for your teeth.

Toodle doo for now. C

And your comment about the UN is so wrong it isnt even worth bothering to reply.

Clockwork C wrote: I think that the fact that the UNSC has a handful of members and a veto on behalf of one deserves question, and has been at the root of a lot more evil than one deranged left-nationalist (and his seriously deranged para-mates).

i agree that having permanent members of the security council is outdated and a bit oligarchical, but i think it's healthy to have ghana, the DR congo, qatar and tanzania sitting on the same council as the US, britain, etc. and having the same veto power.

and don't forget the 1960s when the non-aligned movement stirred up the UN by standing up to the traditional powers!

The States are still obstinate to recognise ICC (in this case we would have to admit that Americans would also be trialed), but nevertheless are eager to help to bring "right" people to the court, when needed. ;)

But when did Milosevic become a "war crminal"? The International Tribunal on the Former Yugoslavia was formed by UN Security Council back in May 1993. Ironically Milosevic became accused only in May 1999, exactly when Serbia was being bombed, yet back in 1995 he was recognized as a legitimate guarantor of the Dayton Peace Agreement.

[orange]|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3[/orange] wrote: But when did Milosevic become a "war crminal"? The International Tribunal on the Former Yugoslavia was formed by UN Security Council back in May 1993. Ironically Milosevic became accused only in May 1999, exactly when Serbia was being bombed, yet back in 1995 he was recognized as a legitimate guarantor of the Dayton Peace Agreement.

good point. i suppose he was considered 'legitimate' in 1995 because he was still the president of serbia (until 1997). also, he was initially indicted for the atrocities committed during the war in kosovo, which didn't begin until 1996. it wasn't until after this that additional charges were added, which dealt with the bosnian conflict.

I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

The term "subjective bullshit" springs to mind.

And yet your comments have been challenged, so why wont you even attempt to defend them?

And, I thought you werent posting anymore? That lasted long didnt it!

I began watching the BBC's "death of yugoslavia" last night. It scared the piss out of me, beacuse what kicked off there started out looking so much like things I'd seen closer to home. Then proper tanks and artillery started appearing and I realised that we're very lucky folks that our various species of small mind small penis nationalist types (confusingly of course the "unionist" community in NI is just another nationalist movement, but I'll buy anyone a case of champers if they can explain that to one of them without getting shot), have always managed to JUST keep the thinnest of lids on it...what bubbles under the surface here exploded there.

I've not seen it all, but I must say, I tend to agr** w*th L**m based on what i've seen and how it fills in the blanks on what i already knew. And there's no point saying this particular program could be wildly bias...because, remove the subtitles and I can stil tell who the biggest twat is.

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

this is the biggest piece of nonsense i've ever read. i love the line '...the UN tribunal, and behind it, washington..'

the US doesn't even support the international criminal court! it never ratified ICC treaty! anyone who knows anything about international politics would know that. but then again, those who don't like the truth choose to create their own truth.

AgentWood wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

this is the biggest piece of nonsense i've ever read. i love the line '...the UN tribunal, and behind it, washington..'

the US doesn't even support the international criminal court! it never ratified ICC treaty! anyone who knows anything about international politics would know that. but then again, those who don't like the truth choose to create their own truth.

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

this is the biggest piece of nonsense i've ever read. i love the line '...the UN tribunal, and behind it, washington..'

the US doesn't even support the international criminal court! it never ratified ICC treaty! anyone who knows anything about international politics would know that. but then again, those who don't like the truth choose to create their own truth.

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

LOL...hope you like Cuban food...can't be having too many of you book learning types stirrin up the god fearing masses.

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

As far as I'm aware there's only one person here qualified to say that regarding this issue, and I really REALLY doubt she will.

Uncle Liam wrote: The term "subjective bullshit" springs to mind.

And yet your comments have been challenged, so why wont you even attempt to defend them?

And, I thought you werent posting anymore? That lasted long didnt it!

Because he's full of shite on every count.

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

Uncle Liam wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

To quote:

"With the collapse of the USSR and the reunification of Germany in 1991, the geopolitical position of Yugoslavia underwent a fundamental transformation. A resurgent German imperialism saw its interests in the Balkans—historically a German sphere of influence—best served through the promotion of secession by Slovenia—the most prosperous Yugoslav region—and then Croatia."

Whoever wrote that is obviously totally clueless about the whole Yugoslav situation. As for the German imperialistic resurgency, complete tosh.

Norwegian Blue wrote: Not a satisfactory outcome at all. Just sit back and watch Hussein's trail go the same way.

As it goes, it ought not to. They are just indicting him on specimen charges which will mean a much shorter trial and a proper conclusion. It's what should have happened with Milosevic. RIH.

He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

Tristan Jayol wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

i don't think the people of kosovo would read my last line as an exaggeration.

i agree that there are leaders who are just as bad and even worse than milosevic, but that doesn't excuse his actions. just because kim jong il isn't on trial doesn't mean we should have patted milosevic on the head and sent him on his merry way. if anything, it means that whether in serbia, israel, rwanda, or even bloody greenland no one has the right to treat human beings with such disregard.

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

Quite concur with it. Not only Tudjman and Milosevic... There were many people willing to play the yugoslavian card in 1989-1991 and many of those people were responsible for what happened. Plus we have to keep in mind those greater powers that were behind the game. NATO bombing was the saddest end of a complicated politics full of lies, betrayals and brutality. :/

Unfortunately I cannot find my report I made back in April 1999 on the situation in Kosovo (who knew there would be bombing?!), with all documented data. Anyway, the Alabanian population in Kosovo was increasingly growing in the region. The collapse of Albania infected the neighbouring Kosovo, the border turned into a black hole. It was another bloody appendix in the ethnical chaos of the former Yugoslavia. :(

Now the Serbs were quite oppressed under Tito for many decades. After his death their nationalism was latently growing and was ready for deeds of historical significance by 90s. So it was not just Milosevic, who felt the "right" moment, there were alot of woken nationalists. (I doubt even he was a real nationalist. As a typical party functioner he tried to use that sentiment and after seeing it might work, he continued. The problem was Milosevic was quite talentless as a politician) :)

Back to Kosovo. The situation was like that: who would take over the region: Albanian Kosovars or Serbs. So there was no other way: someone had to win. The aggression was great from both sides. It occured in old times in different places in history. Now we know the Serbs lost, stopped by an external power.

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

i don't think the people of kosovo would read my last line as an exaggeration.

i agree that there are leaders who are just as bad and even worse than milosevic, but that doesn't excuse his actions. just because kim jong il isn't on trial doesn't mean we should have patted milosevic on the head and sent him on his merry way. if anything, it means that whether in serbia, israel, rwanda, or even bloody greenland no one has the right to treat human beings with such disregard.

I'm sorry I fail to have too much compassion for a people with rampant terrorism within their society. Even if what Milosevic did affected thousands of human lives, these are the same people who supported the KLA that committed terrorist attacks in Macedonia not long after the Kosovar situation was militarily 'resolved'. And I rather consider Milosevic's 'atrocities' as acts of war.