Slobodan Milosevic, RIP.

AgentWood wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

this is the biggest piece of nonsense i've ever read. i love the line '...the UN tribunal, and behind it, washington..'

the US doesn't even support the international criminal court! it never ratified ICC treaty! anyone who knows anything about international politics would know that. but then again, those who don't like the truth choose to create their own truth.

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

this is the biggest piece of nonsense i've ever read. i love the line '...the UN tribunal, and behind it, washington..'

the US doesn't even support the international criminal court! it never ratified ICC treaty! anyone who knows anything about international politics would know that. but then again, those who don't like the truth choose to create their own truth.

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

LOL...hope you like Cuban food...can't be having too many of you book learning types stirrin up the god fearing masses.

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

As far as I'm aware there's only one person here qualified to say that regarding this issue, and I really REALLY doubt she will.

Uncle Liam wrote: The term "subjective bullshit" springs to mind.

And yet your comments have been challenged, so why wont you even attempt to defend them?

And, I thought you werent posting anymore? That lasted long didnt it!

Because he's full of shite on every count.

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

Uncle Liam wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

How true!

Btw, for those who don't know, I've got master's in International Relations.

get ready to join the 'our degrees are completely unimportant when it comes to knowing about international affairs and how dare we even have the audacity to bring them up' club! ;)

Clockwork C wrote: I'm not getting sucked into another vortex of shite. Read on if you wish, keep your mind closed if you wish:

The best thing I've read on the death of Milo.

To quote:

"With the collapse of the USSR and the reunification of Germany in 1991, the geopolitical position of Yugoslavia underwent a fundamental transformation. A resurgent German imperialism saw its interests in the Balkans—historically a German sphere of influence—best served through the promotion of secession by Slovenia—the most prosperous Yugoslav region—and then Croatia."

Whoever wrote that is obviously totally clueless about the whole Yugoslav situation. As for the German imperialistic resurgency, complete tosh.

Norwegian Blue wrote: Not a satisfactory outcome at all. Just sit back and watch Hussein's trail go the same way.

As it goes, it ought not to. They are just indicting him on specimen charges which will mean a much shorter trial and a proper conclusion. It's what should have happened with Milosevic. RIH.

He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

Tristan Jayol wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

i don't think the people of kosovo would read my last line as an exaggeration.

i agree that there are leaders who are just as bad and even worse than milosevic, but that doesn't excuse his actions. just because kim jong il isn't on trial doesn't mean we should have patted milosevic on the head and sent him on his merry way. if anything, it means that whether in serbia, israel, rwanda, or even bloody greenland no one has the right to treat human beings with such disregard.

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

Quite concur with it. Not only Tudjman and Milosevic... There were many people willing to play the yugoslavian card in 1989-1991 and many of those people were responsible for what happened. Plus we have to keep in mind those greater powers that were behind the game. NATO bombing was the saddest end of a complicated politics full of lies, betrayals and brutality. :/

Unfortunately I cannot find my report I made back in April 1999 on the situation in Kosovo (who knew there would be bombing?!), with all documented data. Anyway, the Alabanian population in Kosovo was increasingly growing in the region. The collapse of Albania infected the neighbouring Kosovo, the border turned into a black hole. It was another bloody appendix in the ethnical chaos of the former Yugoslavia. :(

Now the Serbs were quite oppressed under Tito for many decades. After his death their nationalism was latently growing and was ready for deeds of historical significance by 90s. So it was not just Milosevic, who felt the "right" moment, there were alot of woken nationalists. (I doubt even he was a real nationalist. As a typical party functioner he tried to use that sentiment and after seeing it might work, he continued. The problem was Milosevic was quite talentless as a politician) :)

Back to Kosovo. The situation was like that: who would take over the region: Albanian Kosovars or Serbs. So there was no other way: someone had to win. The aggression was great from both sides. It occured in old times in different places in history. Now we know the Serbs lost, stopped by an external power.

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Tristan Jayol wrote: He wasn't a great man; however he is HARDLY Hitler. He was not genocidal either by a longshot. He was a nationalist and was willing to back his ideals w/ military force though. I'm glad the whole farce of his trial is over considering the large overstatements of the 'atrocities' he helped commit (i.e. the Kosovar genocide, which is utterly false). To be perfectly honest, it would have been fitting to see him AND Franjo Tudjman (the vile Croat leader) on trial together.

yes, hitler is in a class (perhaps not the right word) of his own. i don't think anyone would dispute that. and i do agree with you about tudjman, but....

as far as kosovo is concerned: banning the albanian language, closing down and banning all albanian-language media sources, firing ethnic albanian workers and replacing them with ethnic serbs, the expulsion of the albanian population of pristina, the burning of pec and the killing of its albanian residents...not too far from, to use the parlance of our day, 'ethnic cleansing,' i'd say. granted, the KLA were no saints either, but milosevic approved of everything that happened in kosovo on the part of the serbian army and wanted to see the province free of all ethnic albanians, however this was to be achieved: be it through expulsion or death.

Your last line is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes there was a degree of ethnic cleansing, but it is not unlike other actions that have recently occurred around the world. The Albanian deaths incurred from Milosevic's actions are no worse than Palestinian deaths from the hands of the Israeli government. My point is not to honor Milosevic, but instead it is to point out that he is not so sinister when compared to others, especially others our nation holds dearly as freinds and allies. The fact is that his crimes are exaggerated, and there have been and there are worse fellows out roaming the world.

i don't think the people of kosovo would read my last line as an exaggeration.

i agree that there are leaders who are just as bad and even worse than milosevic, but that doesn't excuse his actions. just because kim jong il isn't on trial doesn't mean we should have patted milosevic on the head and sent him on his merry way. if anything, it means that whether in serbia, israel, rwanda, or even bloody greenland no one has the right to treat human beings with such disregard.

I'm sorry I fail to have too much compassion for a people with rampant terrorism within their society. Even if what Milosevic did affected thousands of human lives, these are the same people who supported the KLA that committed terrorist attacks in Macedonia not long after the Kosovar situation was militarily 'resolved'. And I rather consider Milosevic's 'atrocities' as acts of war.