Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
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Che Guevara
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Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
Uncle Liam wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
You know, Liam, you used to strike me as a fairly sensible person. While I have no doubt that you're a decent fella, have your personal politics always been so apeshit looney or has this been a slow degeneration? :p
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
You know, Liam, you used to strike me as a fairly sensible person. While I have no doubt that you're a decent fella, have your personal politics always been so apeshit looney or has this been a slow degeneration? :p
I dunno he's just what we call a libertarian... :)
I lol'd at his answers tho
C-Ro wrote:
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
You know, Liam, you used to strike me as a fairly sensible person. While I have no doubt that you're a decent fella, have your personal politics always been so apeshit looney or has this been a slow degeneration? :p
I dunno he's just what we call a libertarian... :)
I lol'd at his answers tho
Libertarian?! I used to consider myself a libertarian and my views certainly aren't as rightist as Liam's. I don't think you'll find many libertarians who would think the same way, except perhaps on economic issues.
Uncle Liam wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with the politics of the site...but I do agree with making fun of trustafarians
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
C-Ro wrote:
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
You know, Liam, you used to strike me as a fairly sensible person. While I have no doubt that you're a decent fella, have your personal politics always been so apeshit looney or has this been a slow degeneration? :p
I dunno he's just what we call a libertarian... :)
I lol'd at his answers tho
Libertarian?! I used to consider myself a libertarian and my views certainly aren't as rightist as Liam's. I don't think you'll find many libertarians who would think the same way, except perhaps on economic issues.
I'd hate talking about him in the 3rd person but what makes him right-wing? Is this true right wing or joe average's definition of it? I've never seen him say anything socially conservative at all..
C-Ro wrote:
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
C-Ro wrote:
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Uncle Liam wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Anyone know any decent works on Che Guevara? I am looking at his iconic status- deserved or not- and would appreciate any snippets of information
Hmmm... Iconic works.
How about the following.
"How I killed Thousands over a number of years across Latin America"
or
"How I managed to live in luxury in Cuba while thousands of people were locked up in political prisons on my orders"
or my personal favourite
"How I managed to completely fool millions of stupid lefty bastards across the world into paying pver the odds for my image on a crappy s hirt made in South East Asia, leaving my descedants to make millions out of it"
You know, Liam, you used to strike me as a fairly sensible person. While I have no doubt that you're a decent fella, have your personal politics always been so apeshit looney or has this been a slow degeneration? :p
I dunno he's just what we call a libertarian... :)
I lol'd at his answers tho
Libertarian?! I used to consider myself a libertarian and my views certainly aren't as rightist as Liam's. I don't think you'll find many libertarians who would think the same way, except perhaps on economic issues.
I'd hate talking about him in the 3rd person but what makes him right-wing? Is this true right wing or joe average's definition of it? I've never seen him say anything socially conservative at all..
Missed all the threads about Muslims, did you?
And of course, as soon as he wakes up, he'll launch into his usual bit about how every thread dissolves into an argument over him somehow. Set 'em up and knock 'em down....
Well, you have kind of proven my point.
And theres nothing particularly wild about what i said about Guevara. Those are all widely known facts about him.
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Missed all the threads about Muslims, did you?
And of course, as soon as he wakes up, he'll launch into his usual bit about how every thread dissolves into an argument over him somehow. Set 'em up and knock 'em down....
I read them...there was nothing hateful in what he said, basically that one group shouldn't get more rights than others...or take away another groups rights in the name of sensitivity--what's not libertarian about that?
Uncle Liam wrote: Well, you have kind of proven my point.
And theres nothing particularly wild about what i said about Guevara. Those are all widely known facts about him.
blah.. I'm not trying to argue about you---I just don't see the "omg evil".
Sorry tho.
C-Ro wrote:
His Holiness, The Pope wrote:
Missed all the threads about Muslims, did you?
And of course, as soon as he wakes up, he'll launch into his usual bit about how every thread dissolves into an argument over him somehow. Set 'em up and knock 'em down....
I read them...there was nothing hateful in what he said, basically that one group shouldn't get more rights than others...or take away another groups rights in the name of sensitivity--what's not libertarian about that?
What makes Liam's comments right-wing populism (or at least how that rabble-rousing populism functions over here) is his perpetuation of the mythology that "Muslims are getting more rights than others" when in fact "Muslims" (or at least those people who claim to speak on behalf of 'Muslims') are just finally being listened to after being marginal for decades.
Darky gets a voice; whitey gets angry and convinces him/herself that their country/way of life/traditions/whatever are "under seige" when, in truth, that's about as far removed from reality as it's possible to get. Surely this is just basic kneejerk resentment of so-called "uppity niggers" all over again??
And, as ever, all this is couched in the rhetoric of 'common sense', a 'common sense' perpetually undone by 'do-gooders', 'loony lefties' and so on.....
Martin,
My complaint wasnt that "Muslims are getting more rights that others." It was that the rights of others are being either ignored or denied to accomodate certain sections of the Islamic community. Muslims make up, at a guess, 3 or 4% of this countrys population, yet the Muslim council of Britain has disporopertionate amount of influence on thsi country. It is a much more powerful organisation that say, The Church Of England, or indeed any other religious organisation in this country.
Bear in mind that papers in Iran publish anti western, anti jewish, anti Israel cartoons on a near daily basis. We see British and American flags being burnt on TV ona regualr basis. What is the reaction? Nothing, pretty much.
But look at the reactions we have seen in the last 18 months over some cartoons, and over the fact that Jack Straw *ASKS* Muslim women (not demands- as has been misreported by certain organisations, not least the Muslim Council of Britain) which have seen the principle of Free Speech, the very concept that Liberalism is based upon, be discussed in the context that it should be curtailed.
Immigration has been happenning in this country for decades, yet no particular group have caused this discussion to even take place. Why is that?
And my point, Liam, is that this is waffle: I agree that those towards the hard-line end of the muslim spectrum are making soem pretty outrageous demands, but I can't for the life of me see either (a) that those demands are being met or (b) that anyone else is 'losing out' because of those demands. As you point out, the muslim population of the UK is pretty small: they're pretty loud these days, but that's only 'cos, post-9/11, they're considered an important voice much amplified by the media: I'm not sure that there have been any great changes because of those highly vocal protests.
As I've said before on here, surely the recent high-profile (and transparently strategic) Labour 'backlash' against veils and so on has dumped any notion that the Government is bending over backwards to help muslim folk at the expense of other minorities and/or Middle England into the dustbin.
What you are saying is a widely-held popular belief; that doesn't make it any less misguided.
But surely the fact that the discussion of free speech is even taking place is at least a trifle concerning? Regardless of any change that may or may not happen.
(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: And my point, Liam, is that this is waffle: I agree that those towards the hard-line end of the muslim spectrum are making soem pretty outrageous demands, but I can't for the life of me see either (a) that those demands are being met or (b) that anyone else is 'losing out' because of those demands. As you point out, the muslim population of the UK is pretty small: they're pretty loud these days, but that's only 'cos, post-9/11, they're considered an important voice much amplified by the media: I'm not sure that there have been any great changes because of those highly vocal protests.
As I've said before on here, surely the recent high-profile (and transparently strategic) Labour 'backlash' against veils and so on has dumped any notion that the Government is bending over backwards to help muslim folk at the expense of other minorities and/or Middle England into the dustbin.
What you are saying is a widely-held popular belief; that doesn't make it any less misguided.
I'm someone who falls under the the "rights of one shouldn't trump the rights of another" crowd and a lefty. I can not for the life of me believe some of the horrible anti-islamic (and anti-religious) shit that gets said here with regards to things freedom of religious expression and not so religous expression.
Everyone wants freedoms for what they agree with and to veto the other side before it comes out.
Anyway, what I'm saying is I agree with Fradders and want to have his e-babies... 
BUT Liam isn't a right winged nutjob...because the second that the government would give into taking rights away from one group to give rights to another--then everything he's saying applies.
Uncle Liam wrote: But surely the fact that the discussion of free speech is even taking place is at least a trifle concerning? Regardless of any change that may or may not happen.
It's all playing up to the electorate though, isn't it? No real balls behind it?
Hi, from argentina, where el che guevara is from...going back to the main topic in this thread, some people may don´t like Cuba and Fidel´s goverment, but what el Che did during the revolution was to try to give all the people the same opportunties as others...so, if that you think is crap, well you´d better start re consider you points views... leo.
From IMDB:
Soderbergh To Direct Back-to-Back Che Biopics
Ocean's Eleven director Steven Soderbergh is set to shoot two back-to-back films about Latin American revolutionary Ernesto 'Che' Guevara. Soderbergh and Benicio Del Toro, who will play Guevara, have been working on the movies since they made Traffic together in 2000. The films will also likely star Javier Bardem, Franka Potente and Benjamin Bratt, who are currently in talks for key roles. Both films pick up after the formative Guevara years captured in Walter Salles' film The Motorcycle Diaries. The first movie, The Argentine, begins as Guevara and a band of Cuban exiles - led by Fidel Castro - reach the Cuban shore from Mexico in 1956. The second film, Guerilla, begins with Guevara's trip to New York City, where he spoke at the United Nations in 1964 and was celebrated in society circles. He then disappeared into the jungles of South America. When he tired to use Bolivia as the catalyst for more revolution, he was captured and executed. The movies will be shot back-to-back beginning next May in Mexico and South America.
Leo Paciarotti wrote: Hi, from argentina, where el che guevara is from...going back to the main topic in this thread, some people may don´t like Cuba and Fidel´s goverment, but what el Che did during the revolution was to try to give all the people the same opportunties as others...so, if that you think is crap, well you´d better start re consider you points views... leo.
So, he didn't run political prisons and he didn't have people whacked????
Leo Paciarotti wrote: Hi, from argentina, where el che guevara is from...going back to the main topic in this thread, some people may don´t like Cuba and Fidel´s goverment, but what el Che did during the revolution was to try to give all the people the same opportunties as others...so, if that you think is crap, well you´d better start re consider you points views... leo.
Yes, Genocide across an entire continent. Fantastic! 
Get your facts right sunshine.
"che guevara reader writings on politics and revolution" ISBN 1-876175-69-9
BTW i am the first person to actually answer your question :)
Tex wrote:
Leo Paciarotti wrote: Hi, from argentina, where el che guevara is from...going back to the main topic in this thread, some people may don´t like Cuba and Fidel´s goverment, but what el Che did during the revolution was to try to give all the people the same opportunties as others...so, if that you think is crap, well you´d better start re consider you points views... leo.
So, he didn't run political prisons and he didn't have people whacked????
You mean like W?
Yes, what a wonderful thought to share a country with the leader of Australia's Muslim Community, who recently stated with regards to immodestly dressed women: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab [veil], no problem would have occurred." or with regards to a recent gang rape case: "There are women who sway suggestively and wear makeup and inappropriate clothes, and then you get a judge without mercy who gives you 65 years". He went on to say that women are "weapons" used by Satan to control men, and when it comes to adultery the responsibility falls on the woman 90 per cent of the time. There are now calls from within the Muslim community to hold a rally in his support. What a great way to use your freedom of speech - wonder what the response would be in a Muslim country if someone suggested that alcohol should be served and that all women should have the freedom to wear short skirts? Public decapitation within the hour?
Genocide???...dou you really know the meaning of genocide?...Genocide is what the US Goverment is doing in Irak, or what the Military Goverments did here in Argentina in the 70´s supported by the the US goverments by that time....and they were the same who sent che guevara get killed...get killed a person who was fighting for the equality of the peolpe...is that wrong?...
Unle Liam wrote:
Leo Paciarotti wrote: Hi, from argentina, where el che guevara is from...going back to the main topic in this thread, some people may don´t like Cuba and Fidel´s goverment, but what el Che did during the revolution was to try to give all the people the same opportunties as others...so, if that you think is crap, well you´d better start re consider you points views... leo.
Yes, Genocide across an entire continent. Fantastic!
Get your facts right sunshine.
Now i just read through this thread. WTF was it about again? Are all political threads gonna turn into a Muslim whinge from now on or summink?
Strange lot. I almost ended up agreeing with Fradders halfway through, then the thread turned all weird again.
Now can someone sum it up for me in plain well constructed English, and i might chip in, if I'm bored one day.
Leo Paciarotti wrote: Genocide???...dou you really know the meaning of genocide?...Genocide is what the US Goverment is doing in Irak, or what the Military Goverments did here in Argentina in the 70´s supported by the the US goverments by that time....and they were the same who sent che guevara get killed...get killed a person who was fighting for the equality of the peolpe...is that wrong?...
What about the Malvinas, ya cheeky feckers?
No reason for bringing it up, but i haven't had a corned beef sandwich since 1982. Perhaps thats what's missing from my life.
shot bru wrote: Yes, what a wonderful thought to share a country with the leader of Australia's Muslim Community, who recently stated with regards to immodestly dressed women: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab [veil], no problem would have occurred." or with regards to a recent gang rape case: "There are women who sway suggestively and wear makeup and inappropriate clothes, and then you get a judge without mercy who gives you 65 years". He went on to say that women are "weapons" used by Satan to control men, and when it comes to adultery the responsibility falls on the woman 90 per cent of the time. There are now calls from within the Muslim community to hold a rally in his support. What a great way to use your freedom of speech - wonder what the response would be in a Muslim country if someone suggested that alcohol should be served and that all women should have the freedom to wear short skirts? Public decapitation within the hour?
Yep, it's vile; as is the veil (geddit?!) which reeks of misogyny through and through. Thing is, I know/have known plenty of white British men who hold not dissimilar views about women: there was a survey not so long ago in the UK and something like 50% or respondents felt that a woman in a short skirt (say) was at least "partially responsible" if she was sexually assaulted - whaddaya gonna do: 'ban' them as well?? To this end, I'd also argue that Nuts/FHM/Loaded/Zoo and so forth are just another side of the same coin: women either put out (lads mags/our culture in general) or cover up (da veil). Both are equally reactionary, both reek of masculine paranoia and the desire to control, and both stink of the same casual loathing of women: it's the same attitude in diferent clothing (or unclothing, as it were....)
