It looks like a nice little war is brewing between these two. It's a little reminiscent of Senna and Prost in the late '80's/early '90's with the resulting media hysteria adding fuel to the fire of this 'feud'. As a result of his pit stop 'antics' in Hungary Alonso is apparently now not speaking to Hamilton and is generally p***ed off that Hamilton is in his opinion getting preferential treatment within McLaren and he not considered as the team's No.1. Alonso is riled up at just how good Hamilton has been this year and I think that he expected to have a subordinate team mate like he had with Fisichella at Renault that he could dominate very quickly during the course of the season. Hamilton is a very good talent and is performing far beyond what people expected and conversely his confidence has grown as Alonso's has diminished. Combined with Raikonnen, Massa and Ferrari's challenge seemingly starting to fade it is quite possible that he could bag the World Drivers Championship (WDC) in his rookie season. McLaren are piggies in the middle of all this but they've been there before with Senna and Prost and as things stand at the moment Alonso and Hamilton have an equal chance to win the WDC. McLaren are therefore right to give equal status to their drivers and if Alonso really wants to be the 'No.1 within the team' he needs to do his talking on the track - which is pretty much what Hamilton is doing, rather than resorting to pathetic stunts, whinging about things or threatening to f*** off from McLaren as that is a sure way to blow his chances for the WDC he (wrongly) thinks is his right. Schumacher was (rightly) criticised for his underhand tactics and his (contractual) undisputed No.1 status. However Alonso's pit stop antics in Hungary were blatantly designed to f*** up Hamilton's qualifying. Quite rightly he got punished and in my view Schumacher's parking antics in Monaco last year were only slightly worse than Alonso's who along others within the F1 scene crucified him for that. With the 'Stepneygate' spying scandal, Alonso and Hamilton at war with each other is the last thing that McLaren wants as it plays into the hands of Ferrari if there's fireworks between the two for the rest of the season. From an entertainment point of view at least it will make for an interesting conclusion to one of the most exciting and controversial F1 season's for years with no sight of Schumacher involved in these shenanigans this time. Any thoughts. Cheers!
Alonso V's Hamilton the new Senna V's Prost?
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I don't give a f***.
Until another talent like Shumacher comes along, all drivers are the same to me.
BIGINOIL wrote: I don't give a f***.
Until another talent like Shumacher comes along, all drivers are the same to me.
I thought i'd think the same, but i am starting to see more of Schu in Hamilton with each race..
That said, until he kicks ass from last on the grid, in the wet (although he did do ok at the 'ring) or mostly in a shit car, which Schu did many a time, i think its a bit premature to laud him as the next great thing.
With the exception of his very impressive consistency, he hasn't really done anything that Jaqcues Villeneuve didn't do in his first year (win races, poles against an experienced team mate)
Alan Paul Kitching wrote: It looks like a nice little war is brewing between these two. It's a little reminiscent of Senna and Prost in the late '80's/early '90's with the resulting media hysteria adding fuel to the fire of this 'feud'. As a result of his pit stop 'antics' in Hungary Alonso is apparently now not speaking to Hamilton and is generally p***ed off that Hamilton is in his opinion getting preferential treatment within McLaren and he not considered as the team's No.1. Alonso is riled up at just how good Hamilton has been this year and I think that he expected to have a subordinate team mate like he had with Fisichella at Renault that he could dominate very quickly during the course of the season. Hamilton is a very good talent and is performing far beyond what people expected and conversely his confidence has grown as Alonso's has diminished. Combined with Raikonnen, Massa and Ferrari's challenge seemingly starting to fade it is quite possible that he could bag the World Drivers Championship (WDC) in his rookie season. McLaren are piggies in the middle of all this but they've been there before with Senna and Prost and as things stand at the moment Alonso and Hamilton have an equal chance to win the WDC. McLaren are therefore right to give equal status to their drivers and if Alonso really wants to be the 'No.1 within the team' he needs to do his talking on the track - which is pretty much what Hamilton is doing, rather than resorting to pathetic stunts, whinging about things or threatening to f*** off from McLaren as that is a sure way to blow his chances for the WDC he (wrongly) thinks is his right. Schumacher was (rightly) criticised for his underhand tactics and his (contractual) undisputed No.1 status. However Alonso's pit stop antics in Hungary were blatantly designed to f*** up Hamilton's qualifying. Quite rightly he got punished and in my view Schumacher's parking antics in Monaco last year were only slightly worse than Alonso's who along others within the F1 scene crucified him for that. With the 'Stepneygate' spying scandal, Alonso and Hamilton at war with each other is the last thing that McLaren wants as it plays into the hands of Ferrari if there's fireworks between the two for the rest of the season. From an entertainment point of view at least it will make for an interesting conclusion to one of the most exciting and controversial F1 season's for years with no sight of Schumacher involved in these shenanigans this time. Any thoughts. Cheers!
Plenty, but give me an hour to have dinner and stuff before i digest that lot above :)
Hmmm.... Im not convinced that it's all evil Alonso and brilliant, battling Brit Hamilton, and as there are 3 totally different points of view (LH, FA and RD) it seems hard to judge. Certainly if it was true what LH is supposed to have said to Ron on the radio, then he deserves a rocket, 'cos Schumacher for all his wrongdoings, always understood not to bite the hand that fed him. So many things are odd and inconsistent about what happened, Ron blaming LH at first, the altercation with FA's trainer, its hard to know what to believe!
Agree with Edd that Hammilton is managing a consistency level that is amazing. But doesn't that make him the typical McL driver? Boringly consistent and moans like f*** when anyone else wins?
Give me Shuey every time. Win or crash trying and treat failure with a good old fashioned hissy fit and a better go at the next race.
(Isn't Dr gonna bite at all? I'll post a L'Oriel advert in a minute)
I liked Schumacher because
a) He had a mullet in his youth
and
b) At least when he cheated, he did it in style
There is much of Scu in Hamilton certainly. I just hope Lewis hangs on to it like Michael didn't (would the Schumacher of 1993 have tootled round behind rivals waiting for Toad to sneak him past in the pits?...I think not).
I think, after the terrible weekend he had at the Newburgring, he has proved beyond doubt that he's not going to suffer "Brit bottling" like Button, Brundle and Blundell all did.....fast as fuck until you wall it or get beat once too often, then totally fall apart.
I was very impressed with Hamilton in the lower formulae, and in a way, his GP2 performance is more of an indicator of his true talent, winning from the back....in identical cars is surely the hardest thing possible.
As for what someone said about Schu winning in a bad car.....hmmmmmm in 1996 maybe, in more recent years he was very dependent on his car being quicker, as evidenced by the lack of gap between he and Rubens/Masa.
Surelt there is only one TRULY important fact in F1 this year.....
SPA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!
Edd wrote: I liked Schumacher because
a) He had a mullet in his youth
and
b) At least when he cheated, he did it in style
Ralph had a better mullet.
And yes, Michael was a really first rate cheat, not QUITE as devious as Senna, but, as you say, stylish. It got on my nerves when he started to get away with everything though....cheating is only fun if you do it a few times then get busted.
Doctor? wrote:
As for what someone said about Schu winning in a bad car.....hmmmmmm in 1996 maybe, in more recent years he was very dependent on his car being quicker, as evidenced by the lack of gap between he and Rubens/Masa.
Surelt there is only one TRULY important fact in F1 this year.....
SPA IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, i was at Silverstone in '96, as i recall it was the 3rd consecutive race where Ferrari lost both Schu and Eddie by about lap 3, Todt nearly resigned (driven to it by the Italian press) but Schu threatened to leave if Todt went. A proper shitbox of a car, not quick OR reliable.
The other instance of his winning in 'crap' cars would be the 1995 Benneton (the '94 one was far better than the Williams over the course of the season) and the '97 and '98 Ferraris which were still not on a par with Williams and Macca at that stage
And yes, Spa being back is wonderful news!
Shuey helped develop the car - the real secret of his success in the later seasons.
And of course all team-mates were comparable at that time. All the driver aids meant that I could have kept up in one of them cars.
Of course, that's a bad example as I am a brilliant driver. but you know what I mean ;)
BIGINOIL wrote: Shuey helped develop the car - the real secret of his success in the later seasons.
And of course all team-mates were comparable at that time. All the driver aids meant that I could have kept up in one of them cars.
Of course, that's a bad example as I am a brilliant driver. but you know what I mean ;)
Im not a geek with too much useless F1 knowledge or owt..... actually if the cap fits and all that, but 'driver aids' were banned at the end of 1993. They did filter back in to some extent towards the late '90s, but to nowhere near the extent of the Williams of '92/'93, which was seriously heading towards the realms of Radio-controlled car racing, so little driver skill was needed. Indeed any twat could have (and did) race them then. Even a bird raced in F1 in 1992!!
Schumacher's team mates were all number two drivers, at least that was how they were seen by the time he was done with them. Barrichello was the first one that seemed to get a fairer deal though, maybe cos he wasnt quite as quick to bend over and do as told as was Eddie
EDIT: Actually she never qualified for a race (there were more entries than grid places back then) but participated in the championship nonetheless
Traction control was pretty much at it's best when Shuey was triumphant, albeit in disguised mode as gear-change control. There was a massive change in aerodynamics, brake technology, tyre technology and fuel planning. Build quality generally increased, so the cars reliability became less of an issue - no longer the same onus on the driver to make his car last the race, just drive balls-out and let the management system worry about the stress on the engine.
So alright, not driver aids per se. But more predictabilty and stability which allowed the drivers to get more or less the same performance out of similar cars.
Most grids in the Schuey-era would line up pretty much with team-mates next to one another.
I found it all facinating. The engineering effort that must be behind such precision uner such massive loads just boggles the mind.
I would be surprised if espionage was not part of the game, given the small margians (or, more significantly, the huge amounts of cash and kudos that rode on those few milliseconds).
McLaren's boys crime was not to have the pictures, and who cares if he used them? The mistake he made was getting caught. I mean, fancy using a local copy shop, where they are legally bound to be on the lookout for copyright infringement.
And, although he's not everyone's idea of a household name, Stepney would get recognised by anyone who followed F1.
EDIT: But he sent his wife, didn't he? So that's his second crime. Involving the missus in your dodgy-dealing 
You know, any F1 fan would give good cash for a full set of drawings. Maybe he's just a fan at heart?
Hey - I completely forgot which thread I was on then - started to talk about the other one.
Do I win £40?
Some good posts there. I follow Ferrari so I'm not really a big fan of Alonso or Hamilton but I find the rivalry between the two more of interest than who is the saint and who the the devil in the Hungaroring shenanigans. Having said that Alonso want's be the undisputed No.1 without question from his team and challenge from his team mate something Schumacher was heavily criticised for when a more up front No.1/No.2 driver arrangement operated at Ferrari. Yes Alonso is getting demonised by the British press/media with the chain of events involving Hamilton and the comments to Ron Dennis are being somewhat brushed under the carpet so we don't quite know if Hamilton suckered Alonso in to doing what he did. However more fool Alonso as he should have risen above this and the criticism he's receiving is nothing compared to the complete demonising of Schumacher when he was involved similar events, however the events with Damon Hill/Jacques Villeneuve were something he could've avoided. IMO Hamilton is good, has a strong desire to win the WDC and as you say isn't wanting to go down the excuse laden road of current/previous Brit drivers. However for me he hasn't really killed off a grand prix in the way Schuey and even Alonso (at Renault) did. However he has 6 more races left this season so who knows this may come if he keeps the focus and consistency that's served him so well this season. What's more interesting is, is the relationship between Alonso and McLaren damaged beyond repair? If not would Ron Dennis and co. really trust someone who is slating what they're offering them when things go wrong for him and could Alonso trust McLaren to give him an equal and best chance of the WDC both now and in the future. If the answer's no he should move on maybe back with Flav at Renault or as is rumoured to up and coming BMW Sauber. I'm hoping Kimi/Massa get their act's together and add more fight to this years WDC but time is running out for them IMO. One final thought that I agree with you on if it was Ferrari not McLaren who got caught with a 700 odd page technical document of their competitors car they'd be sitting out the rest of 2007 and 2008?
Cheers!
Edd wrote: Yeah, i was at Silverstone in '96, as i recall it was the 3rd consecutive race where Ferrari lost both Schu and Eddie by about lap 3, Todt nearly resigned (driven to it by the Italian press) but Schu threatened to leave if Todt went. A proper shitbox of a car, not quick OR reliable.
The other instance of his winning in 'crap' cars would be the 1995 Benneton (the '94 one was far better than the Williams over the course of the season) and the '97 and '98 Ferraris which were still not on a par with Williams and Macca at that stage
That's one thing that Schu could do - albeit with a great team around him, that most of the current grid haven't or couldn't do. The only possible exception is Alonso but there's a snowball's chance in hell he'd have polished that turd which was the '96 Ferarri and make it almost unbeatable five years later.
Cheers!
Here's a nice little article from The Independent which muddies the waters further in the Hamilton v's Alonso 'feud' Cheers!
http://sport.independent.co.uk/motor_racing/article2843913.ece
There were suggestions in Hungary that Alonso will either seek a berth back at Renault, or else at BMW Sauber, or, if McLaren chief Dennis holds him to his 2008 contract, that he will simply sit out the year. Ive read about this today and my conclusion is: it is very possible Alonso to choose BMW. Why? Because it is the fast growing team, with every year better and better cars. The only team in my opinion that can effectively fight against both Ferrari and McLaren. And now - what will happen in BMW? Kubica has his contract till the end of 2008 season, Heidfeld has not. It means Alonso and Kubica could be a team fellas or BMW will keep Nick and Kubica will take Fernando's place in McLaren. THEORETICALLY :)
Poor Ferdie. Getting hammered by a kid.
And cos McRon won't treat him like Ferrari treated Baron Von Cobblers, (ie, fitting his team mate's car with all the dodgy parts, and a button to make it fail on command in case those fail to fail), he's going to huff off to another team.
