Auschwitz - Birkenau

Been to Dachau. It's the sort of place you NEED to visit. I can't describe why, you just have to go and find out for yourself.

Work Makes You Free.

Select Angeliska. She is ever so beautiful and luxurious man. she alive and well. not yet she in graving yards.

Lady 's parents been a few years back and said it was one of the most harrowing experiences of their lives.

Although i have no jewish ancestry i find all the programmes about the death camps disturbing,but i find the holocaust strangely fascinating.

Before my words are taken out of context,i personally cannot believe that some many people lost their lives due to anti semitism and the industrial processes of the death camps,this ungodly act actually took place within my grand fathers lifetime,sum 60 odd years ago.

I have watched many programmes about the holocaust and read dozens of books on the subject but i still cannot get my head round the fact that people were systematically destroyed in this most inhumane fashion.

I would most definately recommend the holocaust exhibition at the imperial war museum in London. Lady and i went a few years back .

One thing that really gets a lump in my throat is the piles upon piles of spectacles and shoes in the old newsreels,i think upon seeing these it really brings home just how many people suffered.

Incidently,there are a pile of shoes from Auschwitz Birkenau at the exhibition at the war museum,after seing these during my visit ,it was my time to leave.

If i had the opportunity to go to Birkenau then i probably would,this is one part of history that should never be forgotten.

steve

Al - go while you've got the chance - only bout 30/50 miles away init, but prefarably after you've been on the hoy, cos it will make your day strange. Very powerful, puts everything in it's place - esp when you think there daft c**ts out there who deny it a'ppened. Incidently some of Darlo order went Krakcow couple months for daft weekend ago & thoroughly njoyed it - extremely hospitable & welcoming

King John Honest John wrote: Select Angeliska. She is ever so beautiful and luxurious man. she alive and well. not yet she in graving yards.

not sure if this humour is 'tooo black' JAK

wrote: Although i have no jewish ancestry i find all the programmes about the death camps disturbing,but i find the holocaust strangely fascinating.

Before my words are taken out of context,i personally cannot believe that some many people lost their lives due to anti semitism and the industrial processes of the death camps,this ungodly act actually took place within my grand fathers lifetime,sum 60 odd years ago.

I have watched many programmes about the holocaust and read dozens of books on the subject but i still cannot get my head round the fact that people were systematically destroyed in this most inhumane fashion.

One thing that really gets a lump in my throat is the piles upon piles of spectacles and shoes in the old newsreels,i think upon seeing these it really brings home just how many people suffered.

steve

Agreed on those points. If I may add my two cents' worth of memory to it.

I remember going to the Holocaust Museum back in Miami Beach when I was in the 4th grade [13 years ago!], and that was my very first experience hearing about the Holocaust. That sparked my interest in the Holocaust sufferings and World War II, and it was a shock to read/hear about how much they really suffered.

I bought the book "Diary of Anne Frank" ten years ago. One of the best books I ever read, because of how life in the war was told by a young girl who, no matter what happened outside her hiding walls, stayed hopeful in the better of the world. Very sweet.

These days I only get to go to the Jewish Educational and Cultural Center when I have the chance to further understand what happened in those Concentration Camps. It shocked me to hear that there were people in recent times who claimed that the Holocaust never happened--that it was all a hoax.

If the opportunity rises for me to travel to Germany and visit the Concentration Camps, I'll definitely go. Hell, if anyone has a chance and really wants to go, they should.

ETA [edited to add] I also think kids should be educated about it, just not sure if 10 is the appropriate age to start!!

The thing i found most disturbing on my visit to Dachau was the group of tourists who struck a pose infront of the 'showers' with big grins on their faces for a photo.

I'm ashamed to say they were British.

I went to Munich in 1993 with my friend to visit her step-brother. We timed our arrival with the Oktoberfest. Later in the week, we wanted a break from the drink and took a train to Dachau.

I remember us joking about on the train but as soon as we saw the watchtowers and barbedwire we went silent. We expected a bit of a walk around a museum, but it sends shivers up your spine.

Although nobody ever got gassed at Dachau, there's still a morbid atmosphere about the place. The photo's are heartbreaking. I think everybody should go at some point, it's not something I ever gave much thought to before then.

El Jarvo wrote: Anyone ever been? Thoughts?

I was in Majdanek few years ago and I decided not to visit such a places again.

Krakow - A wonderful medieval city

Make sure you go on a sightseeing trip to the Jewish quarter to see where Schindlers list was filmed.Also go to the top of the cathedral (amazing views) and eat and drink to your hearts content.I went to the nicest restuarant I could find just off the main square and although I am sure prices have changed since I went (6/7 years ago) me and a friend ate steak (3 course meal) including beers and vodka (until drunk) and it cost us no more then a grand total of £30..This also included buying all the staff a drink at closing time!

Auschwitz - Birkenau.

If you can afford it get a taxi (haggle the price/we paid about £35 which includes a return trip to Auschwitz and Birkenau.The driver stays with you all day (sits in cafe while you walk around)

Auschwitz - Made in to more of a museaum then Birkenau. See the gas chamber and shoes/hair etc of the victims behind glass.

Birkenau - VERY VERY Eerrie - It's where the train stoped at the large gates to take the jews et all to the camp.They say no birds fly over Birkenau (it has been left untouched to this day) and I can say while I was there I saw no animal life at all.

I went to watch England play in Poland and some other England fans decided to do the same as us.I saw them in the carpark at Birkenau mucking around and laughing but I can assure you that when I saw them again their body language had completely changed.It has that effect I can assure you.

Well worth going but be prepared (unlike me as I had the worst hangover ever)

A MUST MUST SEE

If you want me to bore you with anymore info:let me know

My Grandfather, who was German-Jewish, described the place as 'hell on earth. But people should see this to understand what happened and never forget'

He was fortunate - he made it to the UK in the late 1930's. Other family members didn't.

But of course it's not just a Jewish thing - people were persecuted for their sexuality, their disability, for not fitting 'the norm'.

If anyone has the chance to visit, just go.

For you it's a point of interest, if you are in the area. But it isn't a place for traveling to, if you haven't other special reasons. I visited Buchenwald near Weimar 1994 during a journey through formerly eastern Germany, because a German should see it at least once, I think.

Al,

Just been reading a little about Adolf Eichmann, the "architect" of the Final Solution. Very bizarre. He just thought of the extermination of the Jews as a problem to solve. Didn't understand that he'd done anything wrong!!!

there's some of them bastards still knocking about in Spain, Corby and Austria I've heard. :(

I know it's a bit lightweight but a brief life of Eichmann here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf\_Eichmann

Say, in the history of shame.

I started with camps in the South of France. Spanish Republicans were parked there as they fled Franco - Spain has three borders (France, Portugal and UK) and the only place to go in the late 1930's was France. Then, I visited the Struthof camp in Alsace. It was "just" a concentration camp, but somehow, the spirit was there. Just a note : Alsace had been the area the French and the Germans fought for during the 1870 war, the 1st WW and the 2nd WW. In 1940, the III Reich took an hold on this area again and the Gauleiter appointed was Himmler himself... All the French with German names were enrolled in the SS and sent to Russia... That was the price for the ordinary man, so imagine if you were a bit Untermensch... Later on, I visited Dachau. Disturbing as usual, a step forward to barbary. And I also went to Krakow. On the day we decided to do the Jewish area, the sky was very low. All the colours seemed to have turned to grey. The rain was thin and cold... And when we decided to make our trip to Auschwitz, we have been amazed by the way taxi drivers competed between themselves to have us as passengers. With such a bad start, we decided not to go...

King John Honest John wrote: there's some of them bastards still knocking about in Spain, Corby and Austria I've heard. :(

That is amazing when I think of it !

I told you about the Alsacians who were forced to be in the SS. When the allied reached Normandie, the das Reich division was somewhere in France. On their way to Normandie, they killed everyone in a village called Oradour-sur-Glane - just like they did in the Prague suburb in Lidice. (these places have not been touched and have turned as memorials) Amongst the SS, a lot were born French in Alsace... Shame !!! And do you know what ? During their trial, they were charged of NOTHING. They just showed they were good soldiers.

Some of them served in the SS and finish the war within the 2nd DB which was the French division which reached Strasbourg and later the Soviets in Austria.

By the way, Paul Sarkozy, father of our new stupid Président had been enrolled in the Légion Etrangère in the South of Germany when SS and other Nazis thought that it was a safe place to be...

Then, Indochina war. The Légion Etrangère was made by former SS really... It is hard to imagine how many SS enrolled in French zones in Germany and above all Austria. And there, they found their friends, the French volunteers of the Division Charlemagne which was the French SS Division. Now, these people are old. They receive grants from the State.

El Jarvo wrote:

Trans-Kraftwerk Express wrote: If the opportunity rises for me to travel to Germany and visit the Concentration Camps, I'll definitely go. Hell, if anyone has a chance and really wants to go, they should.

I don't think it's the German concentration camps that are the most 'interesting' (if that's the right word?). They were basically just work-houses - people were literally concentrated there to work, nothing more sinister.

It's the Polish camps where the most damage was done. Where they ran the proper 'death' camps. Auschwitz started out as a labour camp for big corporates like IG Farben but then obviously was extended into Birkenau and those unfit to work (elderly, women, children) were exterminated upon arrival.

The really insulting camps were the likes of Treblinka - built solely to ship people in, then kill them all immediately. Thankfully, again if that's the right word, the Nazis had the good grace to destroy all evidence on such sites so there's nothing to see bar memorials now.

Yeah, I failed to mention the Polish camps also. My bad. Cheers for pointin' that out, Jarvo Sir.

Oh, and yeah, I'd probably visit those as well.

I wouldn't. no chance.

i'd just go to pubs and eateries by my hotel.

Trans-Kraftwerk Express wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Trans-Kraftwerk Express wrote: If the opportunity rises for me to travel to Germany and visit the Concentration Camps, I'll definitely go. Hell, if anyone has a chance and really wants to go, they should.

I don't think it's the German concentration camps that are the most 'interesting' (if that's the right word?). They were basically just work-houses - people were literally concentrated there to work, nothing more sinister.

It's the Polish camps where the most damage was done. Where they ran the proper 'death' camps. Auschwitz started out as a labour camp for big corporates like IG Farben but then obviously was extended into Birkenau and those unfit to work (elderly, women, children) were exterminated upon arrival.

The really insulting camps were the likes of Treblinka - built solely to ship people in, then kill them all immediately. Thankfully, again if that's the right word, the Nazis had the good grace to destroy all evidence on such sites so there's nothing to see bar memorials now.

Yeah, I failed to mention the Polish camps also. My bad. Cheers for pointin' that out, Jarvo Sir.

Oh, and yeah, I'd probably visit those as well.

erm.... what does polish camp mean guys?

El Jarvo wrote:

fat bob (arek p.) wrote: erm.... what does polish camp mean guys?

Indeed, point taken. The Nazi camps in Poland. I think most people realise the difference though.

Has Auschwitz been renamed yet? I understood the Polish government actually wanted to rename it to "German Auschwitz" or something. Remeber reading an article on it in the press earlier this year.

It is not a german camp either. You are right - it is The Nazi one.

Jiphy wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: there's some of them bastards still knocking about in Spain, Corby and Austria I've heard. :(

That is amazing when I think of it !

I told you about the Alsacians who were forced to be in the SS. When the allied reached Normandie, the das Reich division was somewhere in France. On their way to Normandie, they killed everyone in a village called Oradour-sur-Glane - just like they did in the Prague suburb in Lidice. (these places have not been touched and have turned as memorials) Amongst the SS, a lot were born French in Alsace... Shame !!! And do you know what ? During their trial, they were charged of NOTHING. They just showed they were good soldiers.

Some of them served in the SS and finish the war within the 2nd DB which was the French division which reached Strasbourg and later the Soviets in Austria.

By the way, Paul Sarkozy, father of our new stupid Président had been enrolled in the Légion Etrangère in the South of Germany when SS and other Nazis thought that it was a safe place to be...

Then, Indochina war. The Légion Etrangère was made by former SS really... It is hard to imagine how many SS enrolled in French zones in Germany and above all Austria. And there, they found their friends, the French volunteers of the Division Charlemagne which was the French SS Division. Now, these people are old. They receive grants from the State.

fookin war is writing various, bizzare and sad stories. Nothing is only white, nothing is only black...

El Jarvo wrote:

RichShan wrote: Just been reading a little about Adolf Eichmann, the "architect" of the Final Solution. Very bizarre. He just thought of the extermination of the Jews as a problem to solve. Didn't understand that he'd done anything wrong!!!

Watched THIS over the past coupla weeks. Harrowing stuff. Scary thing is, 8000 SS worked at the camp during its time and they reckon 7000 survived the war but yet only 10% of that number ever stood trial for their crimes. Beggars belief. There's a couple of SS men who speak frankly on the doc, but they don't show an ounce of remorse for their actions: it was just the way of the world at that time for them.

Rewarded w/ vacation time. Today's paper

Just another day in week..opportunity.

Incredible what one Human can do to another. Then to somehow dismiss and find peace enough and accept 'normalacy in common pleasures.

In Amsterdam. Believe that Ann Frank's Flat is being shown as a sort of Tourist attraction.

fat bob (arek p.) wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

fat bob (arek p.) wrote: erm.... what does polish camp mean guys?

Indeed, point taken. The Nazi camps in Poland. I think most people realise the difference though.

Has Auschwitz been renamed yet? I understood the Polish government actually wanted to rename it to "German Auschwitz" or something. Remeber reading an article on it in the press earlier this year.

It is not a german camp either. You are right - it is The Nazi one.

It doesn't make a difference. The Nazis were the government of Germany at that time and so Germany was responsible for that, what happened. But It doesn't mean that every German was responsible. Some were more guilty, others less or none. Some, for example jewish, even were victims.

What do they have in the gift shop?

14 K wrote: In Amsterdam. Believe that Ann Frank's Flat is being shown as a sort of Tourist attraction.

That is what we feeled when taxi drivers tried to grab us to Auschwitz...