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No matter what people's views Al, I think any debate is better than none, unless it gets reduced to petty name-calling.
If anyone disagrees with aspects of any of the posts, they have the opportunity to reply and put forward their own views, which is surely a good thing.
Social and political debate seems to be waning nowadays - it seems that many people would much rather discuss celebrities.
Chris Nash wrote: No matter what people's views Al, I think any debate is better than none, unless it gets reduced to petty name-calling.
If anyone disagrees with aspects of any of the posts, they have the opportunity to reply and put forward their own views, which is surely a good thing.
Social and political debate seems to be waning nowadays - it seems that many people would much rather discuss celebrities.
Which is all bollocks Chris, sadly. You don't 'debate' racism. It's a black and white scenario ('scuse the pun) with no middle ground.
Or do you genuinely believe that people can be 'turned' towards bigotry by a strong argument in its defence. Or prevously narrow-minded individuals can suddenly hug their Muslim neighbour simply because I say a couple of my Muslim mates are actually rather top blokes. No, of course not.
No one is defending racism, its just that someone is saying there is racism when, as far as I can see, there isnt.
Uncle Liam wrote: No one is defending racism, its just that someone is saying there is racism when, as far as I can see, there isnt.
Well, thank fcuk for that! 
Et tu Rocketre?
I said NICE ONE LIAM.I just WANTED to say this.Craig don't get all humpty and start a ROCK AGAINST ROCKET!I have ENOUGH enemies in the REAL world.Mainly EX-WIVES.
El Jarvo wrote: Really disappoints me this forum sometimes.
You can write all the essays you want on the subject, some people posting here are just your basic kneejerk reactionary cnuts when it comes to race, no matter how you dress it up.
Still, s'pose I can sleep easy knowing the future of the White Race is in safe hands.
Not one person has stated a racist comment on this thread. I think you should re read the post.
The Boy wrote:
El Jarvo wrote: Really disappoints me this forum sometimes.
You can write all the essays you want on the subject, some people posting here are just your basic kneejerk reactionary cnuts when it comes to race, no matter how you dress it up.
Still, s'pose I can sleep easy knowing the future of the White Race is in safe hands.
Not one person has stated a racist comment on this thread. I think you should re read the post.
The Boy wrote:
El Jarvo wrote: Really disappoints me this forum sometimes.
You can write all the essays you want on the subject, some people posting here are just your basic kneejerk reactionary cnuts when it comes to race, no matter how you dress it up.
Still, s'pose I can sleep easy knowing the future of the White Race is in safe hands.
Not one person has stated a racist comment on this thread. I think you should re read the post.
Think we need to define 'racist' then.
Is it simply a case of saying something crass like "All Muslims are this-or-that" - you know, just general offensive abuse about race or religion.
Or how's about writing 5000 words on why Muslim communities supposedly don't interact with us regular folk? Can that not be construed as racist in any shape or form? Perhaps not racist, but it's fcuking blinkered to say the least. Like I said, earlier it doesn't matter how you dress it up ...
But its not blinkered or racist to say its happening. It obviously doesnt apply to all Muslims in the country, nor is it limited to Muslims (Sikhs in parts of Brum for example), or even does it apply to all Muslims in that Community. Buyt it is happenning. And to say its happenning is not in anyway racist or blinkered.
EDIT: SOURCE
Uncle Liam wrote: But its not blinkered or racist to say its happening. It obviously doesnt apply to all Muslims in the country, nor is it limited to Muslims (Sikhs in parts of Brum for example), or even does it apply to all Muslims in that Community. Buyt it is happenning. And to say its happenning is not in anyway racist or blinkered.
EDIT: SOURCE
I sit next to two Muslims at work. One's a Brummie, one's from Sri Lanka. Both top lads, except they don't facking drink. One of the white lads I work with, two desks away from me - John, who the London Order will know - is married to a Malaysian Muslim. She came to Interpol at Koko with us last year - I know I introduced John to Alex cos they had a long old chat about recording equipment, dunno where you were at that time, Liam.
And I'm going to La Coruna on Friday with yet another Muslim I work with. He's a Kurd and he drinks and even eats pork when the mood suits him.
They've all integrated perfectly well.
So, if I fail to understand where you boys are coming from, it's basically cos I live on an entirely different fucking planet. 
But you're talking individual examples, I'm talking about whole communites. Now, i didnt say that all muslims live in these communities, but a lot do. And its nto just me, or various research bodies saying it, Hazel Blears acknowledged it last week, David Cameron has done it before. So i dont see what the problem is in saying that these isolated communities exist.
Edited to Add: And when the head of the Race Watchdog syas they exist, then I'm inclined to agree with him. Even if he did apoligise after. He did say his claims were supported by evidence though.
And, at Interpol last year. I do vaguely remember Alex having a chat with someone about recording equipment. The onyl thing I can clearly remember is Dave Legge pissing on your floor! 
I'm going to have to reluctantly agree with Liam regarding Muslim communities often being closed up. 40% of my customers are Muslim, and in the end I wouldnt care if they were Satanists, as long as they paid the bill.
I work in South London, and there is a small community in the Streatham/Tooting area; I recently got kicked out of supplying a busy shop in Streatham, the reason stated was that it was because i or the owner of my company are not Muslim. Thankfully i went past there today and the owner called me over, apologised and asked me to supply him again. In East London, we have to employ a Muslim rep, as its the best way to maintain business.
From an accounts/finance/credit point of view, we have been forced to have a policy of looking at the country of origin, before even considering giving credit, sad though it may seem. Everyone from Turkey, Egypt, North Africa and the Kurdish are absolutely fine; some of the nicest chaps you could possibly meet. I often see them smoking outside the shops etc, talking about going to the pub etc; when challenged they reply 'its in my heart'. Unfortunately, my company is let down dramatically by Pakistani customers, Muslim or not; the Turks all tell me its a religious instruction to knock non-Muslim suppliers for money, although i reckon they are pulling my leg.
For the record, English and West African run shops are terrible with money too. Guess that's why we dont run shops any more. Just to add to that, no problems at all with Hindu run shops, Sri Lankans. Best customers by a mile are Sikh.
I find stereotypes a bit humourous. Everyone gets sooooo offended by them. But stereotypes don't come outta thin air, there is a basis to them. People shouldn't base all thier judgement on a stereotype, but it's the starting point. We all use them..... (and racism is one of many stereotypes)
...what usually cracks me up is when you see someone fit a stereotype to a 'T'. You know they're probably also the type to make a big deal outta the stereotype as well....
Its not about stereotypes to me.. its just good old fashioned cash. Customer today in Battersea asked for credit again today, despite bouncing 7 cheques last year out of a total of 11 orders. I politely said 'cash only'. It's a shame it has to come to that, but its just business in the end.
El Jarvo wrote:
Chris Nash wrote: No matter what people's views Al, I think any debate is better than none, unless it gets reduced to petty name-calling.
If anyone disagrees with aspects of any of the posts, they have the opportunity to reply and put forward their own views, which is surely a good thing.
Social and political debate seems to be waning nowadays - it seems that many people would much rather discuss celebrities.
Which is all bollocks Chris, sadly. You don't 'debate' racism. It's a black and white scenario ('scuse the pun) with no middle ground.
Or do you genuinely believe that people can be 'turned' towards bigotry by a strong argument in its defence. Or prevously narrow-minded individuals can suddenly hug their Muslim neighbour simply because I say a couple of my Muslim mates are actually rather top blokes. No, of course not.
I do think one can debate 'racism' Al, or at the very least, the causes, origins and what might be considered 'racist' to different people and communities and how people may be educated and have their eyes opened in order to think differently - understand and embrace our differences.
Are people 'racist' or 'prejudiced'? There's a difference.
I've heard many people say things along the lines of, 'I'm not racist, I've got a couple of black friends, but most of the crime here is caused by blacks.'
Is that racism? Is it blinkered misconception? Is it a gullible person being led by the nose by right-wing and other media?
That's worthy of debate. Shirley? 
ROCKET MICK wrote: Et tu Rocketre?
I said NICE ONE LIAM.I just WANTED to say this.Craig don't get all humpty and start a ROCK AGAINST ROCKET!I have ENOUGH enemies in the REAL world.Mainly EX-WIVES.
My humpty is DUMPTIED. As for ex-wives; that's PARTLY why I'm now living UPSIDE DOWN!
El Jarvo wrote:
Think we need to define 'racist' then.
Is it simply a case of saying something crass like "All Muslims are this-or-that" - you know, just general offensive abuse about race or religion.
religion is a choice and as such I belive I have the right to debate or be offensive about that just as much as I would any other choices a person makes.
Damn frutainians!
I remember smoking with a top philosophy teacher - who had been dissident in his country for twenty years, when he told me about his country : "it's not racism, it's xenophobia". Then a long debate started : Where is the border between these two words ?
Jiphy wrote: "it's not racism, it's xenaphobia". Then a long debate started : Where is the border between these two words ?
Who'd a thought she was the cause of all racism
