WTF? (Aberdeen/London order may particularly wish to read)

From El-Reg............

Preventive policing? Don't even think about it

Drinking in Aberdeen just got a whole lot more complicated, as police warned those popping out for a swift half that they may need to undergo drug testing before they are served.

In Lancaster, police were last week setting up scanners near the central bus station to check passers-by for knives. Meanwhile, on Waterloo station, sniffer dogs that will check you out for drugs or bombs – but not knives – have become a regular part of the daily commuter experience.

Welcome to the world of preventive policing. This, as Catholic readers may recognise, is one in which you may be penalised not just for the sins you have committed, but also for ones you are about to commit, or may just casually have thought about committing.

In Aberdeen, pub-goers will soon be faced with The Itemiser (pdf) - also known as the Ion Detector. This device can detect traces of drugs - including cocaine, cannabis, heroin and ecstasy - from hand swabs in a matter of seconds, flashing up green, amber or red according to what it thinks may be present.

Green will get you straight into the pub or club: amber means you will receive a drug information pack; red may result in your being refused entry, and possibly searched.

The test is voluntary, but customers will be refused entry if they do not take part. Or, given the police track record with knife-related stop and searches, it is just possible that a refusal to agree to being checked would itself be grounds to search you. After all, if you have nothing to hide...

Similar hijinks have been going on recently in Lancaster, as police and the Lancashire County Council’s Safer Travel Unit began stop and search procedures on members of the public travelling to and from Lancaster bus station.

This ‘Gateway Check’ involved the use of two airport-style metal detectors and handheld metal detectors, along with the frisking of travellers as they left the station.

One officer explained: "Due to recent anti-social behaviour and knife crime on buses we are trialling this method as an attempt to deter knife crime, we are currently randomly searching every fifth person."

Historically, police powers to stop and search have been limited to instances where there is reasonable suspicion that they might find something you shouldn't have on you: stolen goods, drugs, an offensive weapon, any article made or adapted for use in certain offences (for example a burglary or theft), knives, or items which could damage or destroy property.

Over the last few years, that limit has been seriously eroded. Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allows arbitrary stop and search with the purpose to prevent terrorism when authorisation is given by a commander of Metropolitan Police. This builds upon section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, which permits searches for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments when authorisation by an officer of the rank of inspector or above is given in relation to a specific place and time period.

In general, court rulings have tended to uphold those powers, rather than diminish them - so even if you have done nothing wrong, failure to comply with a police search may now be an offence in itself.

Reports from locations as far apart as Wellingborough, North Wales and Ipswich all suggest that this is an approach to policing that is increasingly finding favour with police across the country.

Meanwhile, the issue of surveillance on railway stations can be attested to by Reg staff, who regularly brave the sniffer dogs of Waterloo in their journey to work each morning.

For once, we haven’t asked the police to comment on the above. We could reasonably expect some canned statements about the need to reduce risk, increase public safety, and further explanation that if we haven’t done anything wrong, we would have nothing at all to fear.

Instead, we will repeat a comment made by Head of the Police Improvements Agency, Peter Neyroud: Peter Neyroud, chief executive of the NPIA. In a Policing paper earlier this year, he and his fellow authors argued that "factual questions about the effectiveness of new technologies... in detecting and preventing crime should not, and cannot, be separated from ethical and social questions surrounding the impact which these technologies might have upon civil liberties".

In the end, these measures will either become an acceptable everyday part of British policing, or they will thoroughly alienate Police and public. Only time will tell. ®

Yes they were out in force with their swabs in Aberdeen on Halloween. A couple of people got arrested.

is this real? how fucking frightening.

Not surprised one bit....

...Aberdeen/London order - dodgy bassas the lotta them!

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

Doctor? wrote: The test is voluntary, but customers will be refused entry if they do not take part.

What a deal...

Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

Burt Reynolds wrote: Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

No, you have it wrong, Burt. Your "normal dogs" are the ones in charge of looking for sexual delinquants.

3615 Jiphy wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

No, you have it wrong, Burt. Your "normal dogs" are the ones in charge of looking for sexual delinquants.

That would follow, yes.

Doctor? wrote:

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

yes, i had a read of them.

i have long found the erosion of our civil liberties absolutely gobsmacking - and the apparent ease with which we are allowing it to happen even more so.

bloodynora wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

yes, i had a read of them.

i have long found the erosion of our civil liberties absolutely gobsmacking - and the apparent ease with which we are allowing it to happen even more so.

The English populous as a whole are very fickle,why do we allow the Government to get away with things like this?

All the political parties over the last 30 years have taken the piss absolutely.

Why are we still part of Europe,but do not get the benefits of the European system?

in fact:

Hey i know,let everyone come here to work,in fact we'll pay benefits, from the british taxpayer for all your kids at home in eastern europe.

Sounds good to me.

The border agency is a joke, they can only check something like 1/100 lorries comin to the u.k, this is so fucking wrong!

We,the taxpayer will pay through the nose for civil servants gold plated (final salary) pensions and pay fuck all to people that have worked all their lives.....................

After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

Eh?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

You must have spent quite some time here to have made such an accurate appraisal of our nation?

Diamond 383 wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

You must have spent quite some time here to have made such an accurate appraisal of our nation?

Been watching too many films methinks. Noticed another diatribe on Britain from him the other day, which suggested he's been watching far too many costume dramas. Stereotypes are brilliant though. Love 'em. Now I'm going off to get myself high on drugs, educate myself with some rap music, and perhaps later, I'll listen to a comedian going on about wanking.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

Meanigless!!!! unless accompanied by your full name, postal address and social security number, a DNA sample, your credit card details, the names of your children and the schools they attend, your voting history and medical records.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

really? this is the line that alarms me the most:

Doctor? wrote: even if you have done nothing wrong, failure to comply with a police search may now be an offence in itself.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

I am responsible! You, British society, you have so many criminaly neglected charms, you take your time to respond and leave the world of music on a high. There's no one ruling system, kids aren't just left to imported American rap to educate them. Comedians can talk about masturbation and many other formerly taboo subjects. Class division that has broken down so completely that a shopkeepers daughter became prime minister whilst a Lord went to jail, adolescents now have a real hope of overcoming class barriers; and not just via the traditional football, boxing and music; hell no. You've been rolling out great music since the 60s when you sold rock n roll back to us and it's your Great Britain, people it really is, your Great Britain where it's impossible to buy an election and get on the campaign bus without searching deep into your heart or, sniff. Sorry I am filling up a little now, sniff... Great Britain I LOVE YOU

Stop apologising for The Cult, stop relying on imported lager.Over a half of the country is still greenbelt, go for a walk , be happy dont become jaded, BRITAIN can I join you!.

Since you put it so nicely... course you can

Tim wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

He sounds like he's sniffing glue...

Nick King wrote:

Tim wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

He sounds like he's sniffing glue...

Nah it's the German in him. History wrankles a little bit, but that good old British spirit pulled through. ha

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

Do you know anything about England at all????

Or do you take what you know from Guy Ritchie's films - that's like thinking Forest Gump is the archetypal American!

WTF is an "Oriental Wizard"???

Oh, and by the way, James Aldridge is an Australian...

um. patriotism is wonderful, and there are lots and lots of marvellous things about this country.

but our rich-poor divide has worsened hugely in the last 20 years and is the world's worst among developed countries. we are facing a return to a time when only the privileged will be able to afford to go to university. it is still far, far easier to get into oxford or cambridge from private schools than state schools, and many of our most well-paid and influential figues are still oxbridge graduates. the mayor of our capital city is an old etonian, and it's likely our next prime minister will be too.

ID cards will this month become compulsory for non-EU nationals, and early next year for 'high-risk' workers, prior to voluntary schemes for students. the way things are going it really, really won't be long before we are all compelled to have one.

so, you know, we shouldn't be too smug, should we?

And today all round the country men stood in the freezing cold to spare a thought for friends blown to pieces or who died of festering wounds......all to save us from men in dark uniforms on street corners rudely demanding your papers.

They're already making reading some things an offence.

Where you burn books, one day you will surely burn people.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

Indeed (civil liberties being eroded), but what we're talking about here is a system that's only been introduced in Aberdeen thus far - that's one city in the whole of the United Kingdom. This would have been passed by the local authority, and the money to implement it (scanners, drug test equipment, etc) would be coming out of the local taxpayers pocket...

In order to implement this in every single pub/club around the country, wouldn't Council Tax have to go up by a significant proportion in order to pay for the facilities? I'm not so sure that your average everyday tax payer would put up with that?

As for the tube stations, that's been in force for quite some time now, and only applies to a small minority of the major tube stations and it's not a 24x7 operation - i.e. if you see some police with sniffer dogs (and you have some gear on you), turn around and go to the next tube station along. Either that, or take a bus/cab/walk... :)

I'm still not sure what an "Oriental Wizard" is, or what significance a couple of authors still living freely in this country (and who are either still writing and/or retired) has to do with civil liberties being eroded?

it begins with a 'pilot scheme' though, doesn't it? it's like catwalk fashion. starts off as an isolated crazy idea, then filters down in some form to every high street...

i'm not so sure that your average everyday tax payer would be able/arsed to do anything about it.

i am also desperate to know what an oriental wizard is. a serious career change is (as ever) on the cards and this sounds like a very enticing option. i wonder if there are training courses.

Starting to suspect that something may have got lost in translation from the original Russian propaganda tract he was quoting......

Some in green and white may have you believe that Shinsuke Nakamura is an Oriental Wizard. Others may be more inclined towards Ken Hom :)

In Great Britain, they came first for the immigrants, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t an immigrant;

And then they came for the ravers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a raver;

And then they came for the drug-takers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a drug-taker;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

Diamond 383 wrote: In Great Britain, they came first for the immigrants, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t an immigrant;

And then they came for the ravers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a raver;

And then they came for the drug-takers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a drug-taker;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

still got me sweet yam's though(sure thats the poem i did in school which you've 'borrowed')

Diamond 383 wrote: In Great Britain, they came first for the immigrants, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t an immigrant;

And then they came for the ravers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a raver;

And then they came for the drug-takers, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a drug-taker;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

still got me sweet yam's though(sure thats the poem i did in school which you've 'borrowed')

i teach that poem! 'not my business'? the poet leant heavily on an original poem about the dangers of political apathy and the rise of the nazi party, which is what biggy has borrowed...

it is, of course, as poignant and meaningful when applied to aberdeen party people as the holocaust.

but never as affecting as when used by HMHB in 'turn a blind eye':

"they came for dani behr, i said she’s over there, behind the wardrobe"

From time to time, trudging through the dross that gets posted on here, you come across something that really makes you smile.

Can't be long now

bloodynora wrote:

it is, of course, as poignant and meaningful when applied to aberdeen party people as the holocaust.

The holocaust didn't start with vast industrial murder facilities though, it started with men on street corners "protecting" the people.

The really scary thing is that historically, dodgy ecconomic times breed stupidity and extremism :(

Who would The Party(uk) set up as a scapegoat anyway? I mean terrorists are good enough for now, but sooner or later people will want a more tangible evil to yell at in the two minutes hate and to be "protected" from. It'll be hard for them to single out a group based on religion or ethnicity as they are currently straining at the opposite (ie, the PC) end of that spectrum as a means of repression.

PS Colin.....aren't you ALL of the things you listed[1]?

When they came for the ravers....I was fuckin long gone! ;)

[1] OK, movin to the 'deen isn't exactly migration, but poetic license etc.

bloodynora wrote: i teach that poem! 'not my business'? the poet leant heavily on an original poem about the dangers of political apathy and the rise of the nazi party, which is what biggy has borrowed...

it is, of course, as poignant and meaningful when applied to aberdeen party people as the holocaust.

but never as affecting as when used by HMHB in 'turn a blind eye':

"they came for dani behr, i said she’s over there, behind the wardrobe"

yes! thats it thanks,

ahh it takes me back..

where you teach?

Ally wrote: Is someone seriously trying to sum up this country by drawing on Guy Ritchie films?

What about that one where Madonna gets stranded on a desert island?

Fachking 'ell, you muppet.

That's alright....wait till he starts on you (trainspotting) and me (darby o'gill and the little people/finnegans rainbow/resurection man). Where's Darren so he can tell him all about Twin Town.

bloodynora wrote: ID cards will this month become compulsory for non-EU nationals, and early next year for 'high-risk' workers, prior to voluntary schemes for students. the way things are going it really, really won't be long before we are all compelled to have one.

Aren't we one of the only countries in Europe that doesn't have an ID card yet? I'm struggling to think of another country in Europe that doesn't...

In addition, there are numerous circumstances in everyday life where an ID card of some description is required (currently a passport/driving license) before buying alcohol at a supermarket, or picking up mail from the post office, or checking into a hotel, etc, etc... It's the one reason I chose to get a provisional drivers license! :p

All an ID card does is avoid the need to carry your passport/driving license around to prove you are who you say you are, doesn't it?

ID cards are fine, BUT. With this lot, we'll get all the hassles and none of the benefits (eg, a passport will still be needed for EU travel, whereas many other EU ID cards would be considered acceptable).

And of course it will eventually be an offence not to carry one.....and that's when it gets scary.

And of course once you put all your efforts into this wonderful security panacea....once it's compromised, yer fucked.

Doctor? wrote: And of course it will eventually be an offence not to carry one.....and that's when it gets scary.

Isn't that the case in the rest of Europe? (A genuine question, I don't know the answer to that)

Nick King wrote:

Doctor? wrote: And of course it will eventually be an offence not to carry one.....and that's when it gets scary.

Isn't that the case in the rest of Europe? (A genuine question, I don't know the answer to that)

In a couple of places but generally they are voluntary. Then again, other parts of europe eat snails and stab bulls for fun, and I don't fancy that shite either.

Doctor? wrote: ID cards are fine, BUT. With this lot, we'll get all the hassles and none of the benefits (eg, a passport will still be needed for EU travel, whereas many other EU ID cards would be considered acceptable).

"You will be able to travel on an ID Card within Europe, just as currently many Europeans travel to the UK on their ID Cards. Beyond that, you will still need a passport."

Nick King wrote:

Doctor? wrote: ID cards are fine, BUT. With this lot, we'll get all the hassles and none of the benefits (eg, a passport will still be needed for EU travel, whereas many other EU ID cards would be considered acceptable).

"You will be able to travel on an ID Card within Europe, just as currently many Europeans travel to the UK on their ID Cards. Beyond that, you will still need a passport."

Fair enough, though the note we have in work to the same effect has lots of if's and but's.

Can tell you one very good thing against ID cards.....guess who'll you'll have to talk to if you have any questions about them :D

ID cards will carry two fingerprints and a facial scan. if completed, the NIR would be the world’s biggest biometric database, holding 52 pieces of information on every adult who remains in the UK for longer than three months.

some reasons why ID cards might be A Bad Thing

Rick Banks wrote:

yes! thats it thanks,

ahh it takes me back..

where you teach?

norf lincs. that pome is in the gcse anthology of poetry for one of the most popular exam boards. it's a classroom classic.

bloodynora wrote:

Rick Banks wrote:

yes! thats it thanks,

ahh it takes me back..

where you teach?

norf lincs. that pome is in the gcse anthology of poetry for one of the most popular exam boards. it's a classroom classic.

I'm going to be a teacher soon, too.

Well let's hope that you don't spout the same sort of uninformed bollocks to your pupils as you do on here then!

Do not blame him too quickly.

Mind, he was born in former USSR and he lives now in the USA where they just have elected a coloured person who had promised so many changes... I think there is a wave of euphoria over there and that this would be followed by a kind of hangover. Everything should get into place at that time...

Now talking about integration of minorities - I do not know if it was the same by the time of the British empire, but at that time there was more coloured people in French politics than now. Not only there was more coloured people as representives, but there was also coloured ministers (and not only second range ministries). And that was by the fifties, beginning of the sixties... And those people were elected by people, not appointed by the President like it is by now...

To continue. The piece of poetry of this German priest is a lesson of history. Something to keep preciously in mind.

And to get back on subject. I do not know who said that but is something alike : people who agree on the fact to loose some liberties for their own security are people designed to become some kind of slaves. I totally agree.

And I may add that, if there are too many disorders in the society, something done previously had been made incorrectly. The best way to keep a society sane is to keep the balance fairly right.