WTF? (Aberdeen/London order may particularly wish to read)

From El-Reg............

Preventive policing? Don't even think about it

Drinking in Aberdeen just got a whole lot more complicated, as police warned those popping out for a swift half that they may need to undergo drug testing before they are served.

In Lancaster, police were last week setting up scanners near the central bus station to check passers-by for knives. Meanwhile, on Waterloo station, sniffer dogs that will check you out for drugs or bombs – but not knives – have become a regular part of the daily commuter experience.

Welcome to the world of preventive policing. This, as Catholic readers may recognise, is one in which you may be penalised not just for the sins you have committed, but also for ones you are about to commit, or may just casually have thought about committing.

In Aberdeen, pub-goers will soon be faced with The Itemiser (pdf) - also known as the Ion Detector. This device can detect traces of drugs - including cocaine, cannabis, heroin and ecstasy - from hand swabs in a matter of seconds, flashing up green, amber or red according to what it thinks may be present.

Green will get you straight into the pub or club: amber means you will receive a drug information pack; red may result in your being refused entry, and possibly searched.

The test is voluntary, but customers will be refused entry if they do not take part. Or, given the police track record with knife-related stop and searches, it is just possible that a refusal to agree to being checked would itself be grounds to search you. After all, if you have nothing to hide...

Similar hijinks have been going on recently in Lancaster, as police and the Lancashire County Council’s Safer Travel Unit began stop and search procedures on members of the public travelling to and from Lancaster bus station.

This ‘Gateway Check’ involved the use of two airport-style metal detectors and handheld metal detectors, along with the frisking of travellers as they left the station.

One officer explained: "Due to recent anti-social behaviour and knife crime on buses we are trialling this method as an attempt to deter knife crime, we are currently randomly searching every fifth person."

Historically, police powers to stop and search have been limited to instances where there is reasonable suspicion that they might find something you shouldn't have on you: stolen goods, drugs, an offensive weapon, any article made or adapted for use in certain offences (for example a burglary or theft), knives, or items which could damage or destroy property.

Over the last few years, that limit has been seriously eroded. Section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allows arbitrary stop and search with the purpose to prevent terrorism when authorisation is given by a commander of Metropolitan Police. This builds upon section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, which permits searches for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments when authorisation by an officer of the rank of inspector or above is given in relation to a specific place and time period.

In general, court rulings have tended to uphold those powers, rather than diminish them - so even if you have done nothing wrong, failure to comply with a police search may now be an offence in itself.

Reports from locations as far apart as Wellingborough, North Wales and Ipswich all suggest that this is an approach to policing that is increasingly finding favour with police across the country.

Meanwhile, the issue of surveillance on railway stations can be attested to by Reg staff, who regularly brave the sniffer dogs of Waterloo in their journey to work each morning.

For once, we haven’t asked the police to comment on the above. We could reasonably expect some canned statements about the need to reduce risk, increase public safety, and further explanation that if we haven’t done anything wrong, we would have nothing at all to fear.

Instead, we will repeat a comment made by Head of the Police Improvements Agency, Peter Neyroud: Peter Neyroud, chief executive of the NPIA. In a Policing paper earlier this year, he and his fellow authors argued that "factual questions about the effectiveness of new technologies... in detecting and preventing crime should not, and cannot, be separated from ethical and social questions surrounding the impact which these technologies might have upon civil liberties".

In the end, these measures will either become an acceptable everyday part of British policing, or they will thoroughly alienate Police and public. Only time will tell. ®

Yes they were out in force with their swabs in Aberdeen on Halloween. A couple of people got arrested.

is this real? how fucking frightening.

Not surprised one bit....

...Aberdeen/London order - dodgy bassas the lotta them!

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

Doctor? wrote: The test is voluntary, but customers will be refused entry if they do not take part.

What a deal...

Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

Burt Reynolds wrote: Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

No, you have it wrong, Burt. Your "normal dogs" are the ones in charge of looking for sexual delinquants.

3615 Jiphy wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: Quite used to sniffer dogs at major stations when i get on train. Got harassed by one at East Croydon not that long ago.

Mind you, at least they don't sniff yer bollocks like normal dogs.

No, you have it wrong, Burt. Your "normal dogs" are the ones in charge of looking for sexual delinquants.

That would follow, yes.

Doctor? wrote:

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

yes, i had a read of them.

i have long found the erosion of our civil liberties absolutely gobsmacking - and the apparent ease with which we are allowing it to happen even more so.

bloodynora wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

bloodynora wrote: is this real? how fucking frightening.

'Fraid so. You should see some of the REALLY terrifying things in the comments on the original el-reg story.

yes, i had a read of them.

i have long found the erosion of our civil liberties absolutely gobsmacking - and the apparent ease with which we are allowing it to happen even more so.

The English populous as a whole are very fickle,why do we allow the Government to get away with things like this?

All the political parties over the last 30 years have taken the piss absolutely.

Why are we still part of Europe,but do not get the benefits of the European system?

in fact:

Hey i know,let everyone come here to work,in fact we'll pay benefits, from the british taxpayer for all your kids at home in eastern europe.

Sounds good to me.

The border agency is a joke, they can only check something like 1/100 lorries comin to the u.k, this is so fucking wrong!

We,the taxpayer will pay through the nose for civil servants gold plated (final salary) pensions and pay fuck all to people that have worked all their lives.....................

After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

Eh?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

You must have spent quite some time here to have made such an accurate appraisal of our nation?

Diamond 383 wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

You must have spent quite some time here to have made such an accurate appraisal of our nation?

Been watching too many films methinks. Noticed another diatribe on Britain from him the other day, which suggested he's been watching far too many costume dramas. Stereotypes are brilliant though. Love 'em. Now I'm going off to get myself high on drugs, educate myself with some rap music, and perhaps later, I'll listen to a comedian going on about wanking.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

Meanigless!!!! unless accompanied by your full name, postal address and social security number, a DNA sample, your credit card details, the names of your children and the schools they attend, your voting history and medical records.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

really? this is the line that alarms me the most:

Doctor? wrote: even if you have done nothing wrong, failure to comply with a police search may now be an offence in itself.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

I am responsible! You, British society, you have so many criminaly neglected charms, you take your time to respond and leave the world of music on a high. There's no one ruling system, kids aren't just left to imported American rap to educate them. Comedians can talk about masturbation and many other formerly taboo subjects. Class division that has broken down so completely that a shopkeepers daughter became prime minister whilst a Lord went to jail, adolescents now have a real hope of overcoming class barriers; and not just via the traditional football, boxing and music; hell no. You've been rolling out great music since the 60s when you sold rock n roll back to us and it's your Great Britain, people it really is, your Great Britain where it's impossible to buy an election and get on the campaign bus without searching deep into your heart or, sniff. Sorry I am filling up a little now, sniff... Great Britain I LOVE YOU

Stop apologising for The Cult, stop relying on imported lager.Over a half of the country is still greenbelt, go for a walk , be happy dont become jaded, BRITAIN can I join you!.

Since you put it so nicely... course you can

Tim wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

He sounds like he's sniffing glue...

Nick King wrote:

Tim wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: After all, if you have nothing to hide.

But who is responsible? You, British society, you have so many criminals, you take drugs to get high. There's no upbringing system, kids are left to stupid rap to educate them. Comedians that only talk about masturbation. Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers. You've been rolling a fun ride since the 60s and it's your Great Britain where it's impossible to get on a bus without a search or a sniff.

Stop propaganding a thug cult, stop relying on import labor. A half of the country sits on their lazy asses getting unemployment checks.

That's right, there are 30 million unemployed people in England. Do you actually know anything about the country at all, or is this a direct lift from Putin's address to the people or something?

He sounds like he's sniffing glue...

Nah it's the German in him. History wrankles a little bit, but that good old British spirit pulled through. ha

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

Do you know anything about England at all????

Or do you take what you know from Guy Ritchie's films - that's like thinking Forest Gump is the archetypal American!

WTF is an "Oriental Wizard"???

Oh, and by the way, James Aldridge is an Australian...

um. patriotism is wonderful, and there are lots and lots of marvellous things about this country.

but our rich-poor divide has worsened hugely in the last 20 years and is the world's worst among developed countries. we are facing a return to a time when only the privileged will be able to afford to go to university. it is still far, far easier to get into oxford or cambridge from private schools than state schools, and many of our most well-paid and influential figues are still oxbridge graduates. the mayor of our capital city is an old etonian, and it's likely our next prime minister will be too.

ID cards will this month become compulsory for non-EU nationals, and early next year for 'high-risk' workers, prior to voluntary schemes for students. the way things are going it really, really won't be long before we are all compelled to have one.

so, you know, we shouldn't be too smug, should we?

And today all round the country men stood in the freezing cold to spare a thought for friends blown to pieces or who died of festering wounds......all to save us from men in dark uniforms on street corners rudely demanding your papers.

They're already making reading some things an offence.

Where you burn books, one day you will surely burn people.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Class division that kills in adolescents any hope of overcoming class barriers.

This is the line that alarms me the most. It shows a huge lack of understanding, to say the least. Not heard class divides discussed since perhaps the 80's, when the question 'what class are your family from?', was still prevalent (just). Did you come here in the 1950's or something?

I’m not an Anglophobe, I truly enjoy British culture and arts. But when it comes to social issues and politics I feel depressed. In 1850s England welcomed international anarchists and communists of all kind, with the goal of using them against their own respective nations. In 1990s England welcomed Oriental wizards who were, in nature, radical religious preachers. You say that the class question is irrelevant today. How many lords and earls, or for that matter, Royal members have you imprisoned lately? And why does the English establishment still silence such writers as Richard Aldington, James Aldridge (who actually still lives in South London, he’s almost 100 years old - go and bring him some joy and sweets). Why? It’s simple. That’s a revenge. They cruelly depicted the British imperialism, exposed the deceiving nature of hurray-patriots and the moral degradation of aristocratic circles. You clearly see the cynicism of parasitic classes and corrupted intelligentsia, of which many later became troubadours of fascism. Think of Lawrence of Arabia – the icon of British establishment – when people started to write the truth about him, English fanatic patriots and militarists demanded that such authors should leave the country. Yet the deafening drums of militarist propaganda in the UK still could not drown the voice of people like Aldridge who remains a firm opponent of wolf laws of life, colonial slavery and imperialism. Do I need to tell you about the teen crime rate in big cities, while aristocracy and bourgeoisie go boating and send their parasitic kids to boarding schools. Take Guy Ritchie's films - we're talking about stereotypes, huh - that glorify a thug, a pompous criminal, and that's what the world sees now. No Sherlock Holmes or Walter Scott anymore. And ironically Ritchie is just hitting the reality.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND?

Indeed (civil liberties being eroded), but what we're talking about here is a system that's only been introduced in Aberdeen thus far - that's one city in the whole of the United Kingdom. This would have been passed by the local authority, and the money to implement it (scanners, drug test equipment, etc) would be coming out of the local taxpayers pocket...

In order to implement this in every single pub/club around the country, wouldn't Council Tax have to go up by a significant proportion in order to pay for the facilities? I'm not so sure that your average everyday tax payer would put up with that?

As for the tube stations, that's been in force for quite some time now, and only applies to a small minority of the major tube stations and it's not a 24x7 operation - i.e. if you see some police with sniffer dogs (and you have some gear on you), turn around and go to the next tube station along. Either that, or take a bus/cab/walk... :)

I'm still not sure what an "Oriental Wizard" is, or what significance a couple of authors still living freely in this country (and who are either still writing and/or retired) has to do with civil liberties being eroded?

it begins with a 'pilot scheme' though, doesn't it? it's like catwalk fashion. starts off as an isolated crazy idea, then filters down in some form to every high street...

i'm not so sure that your average everyday tax payer would be able/arsed to do anything about it.

i am also desperate to know what an oriental wizard is. a serious career change is (as ever) on the cards and this sounds like a very enticing option. i wonder if there are training courses.